TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

61 participants
6531 discussions

by msokolov＠baryon.trailing-edge.com

Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> wrote: > Hi all, > I also asked Dennis if we could put his two old `primeval' C > compilers into the archive. He said: > > > I don't have a problem with copying the compilers, more or > > less as a mirror. I wonder if anyone will try to revive them? So are they now on minnie or not? If they are, then where? I just looked and couldn't find them. -- Michael Sokolov Special Agent International Free Computing Task Force Harhan Computer Operation Facility ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)baryon.trailing-edge.com

25 years, 10 months

Re: 4.3-QJ0 installation problem (was: no subject)

by msokolov＠baryon.trailing-edge.com

(I'm Cc'ing this to the PUPS list because the original message was, but this discussion belongs on the Quasijarus list. Please don't Cc follow-ups to PUPS, instead everyone who is interested in this discussion please send: subscribe quasijarus to Majordomo(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Wilko Bulte <wilko(a)yedi.iaf.nl> wrote: > I've been trying to get 4.3BSD to run on my newly acquired MicroVAXII. > I followed the Ultrix route described in the docs in the pups tree. > > I get as far as: > > [...] > > 4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #0: Fri Dec 25 14:22:17 EST 1998 > msokolov@polygon:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC > > [...] > > ra0 at uda0 slave 0: MICROP , size = 1303998 sectors OK, good, I see you've labeled your system disk. > ra1 at uda0 slave 1trap type 6, code = 2, pc = 80031b1c > panic: Arithmetic fault OK, trap 6 code 2 is integer divide by zero on the VAX. My obvious guess is that the disk has a garbage label on it and when the kernel tries to interpret it, it divides by zero and blows up. A garbage label is something worse than no label at all, because the label structure has a magic at the beginning, and trust me, the kernel does check it and it does not blow up with a divide by zero when block 0 is all zeros. Wilko, what exactly do you have in the label block of disk 1? If you've been following my installation instructions to the letter, that disk would be your Ultrix disk. My installation instructions call for labeling the BSD disk, but not the Ultrix disk. In fact, putting a BSD label on an Ultrix bootable disk would render it unbootable, as Ultrix has boot code where BSD has the label. This means that normally when someone follows my Ultrix-based installation procedure, BSD will simply view the Ultrix disk as unlabeled and make it one big partition a. You obviously have something else in there. > Exactly the same thing happens when I use 4.3reno instead of the Quasijarus > kit. Well, this at least means that this is not yet another one of my own bugs, so that's the good news. :-) But sure, the kernel could do with a few more label sanity checks so that it prints a nice error message instead of blowing up. I'll look into it. -- Michael Sokolov Special Agent International Free Computing Task Force Harhan Computer Operation Facility ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)baryon.trailing-edge.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA47798 for pups-liszt; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:58:50 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Sat Aug 28 13:58:44 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA47794 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:58:44 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA06231 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:58:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199908280358.NAA06231(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: dmr's comments on releasing old code To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:58:44 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, Dennis Ritchie just emailed me with a URL about Dan Bricklin's efforts to release his original VisiCalc: http://www.bricklin.com/history/vcpostingreactions.htm The URL contains a link to an email from Dennis about his attempts to get the older UNIX source code, and the primeval C compilers, released: http://www.bricklin.com/history/dmrletter.htm Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA47821 for pups-liszt; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:03:48 +1000 (EST) >From Martin Crehan <mjcrehan(a)earthlink.net> Sat Aug 28 14:03:30 1999 Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA47817 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:03:41 +1000 (EST) Received: from gort (1Cust102.tnt2.covina.ca.da.uu.net [208.254.25.102]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA13229 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908280403.VAA13229(a)gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mjcrehan(a)earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au From: Martin Crehan <mjcrehan(a)earthlink.net> Subject: Dennis Ritchie letter on releasing early Unix Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I ran across an interesting account from Dennis Ritchie on the process he went through to get us the SCO liscense for Ancient Unix: http://www.bricklin.com/history/dmrletter.htm Martin Crehan 9 PM PDT, August 27, 1999 mjcrehan(a)earthlink.net Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA49114 for pups-liszt; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:08:36 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Sat Aug 28 21:08:29 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA49110 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:08:29 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) id VAA07821 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:08:29 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199908281108.VAA07821(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Primeval C compilers To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:08:29 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi all, I also asked Dennis if we could put his two old `primeval' C compilers into the archive. He said: I don't have a problem with copying the compilers, more or less as a mirror. I wonder if anyone will try to revive them? I've had a go at reviving them today, using V5 cc and tools. It's a real PITA I can assure you. I've got the last1120c compiler compiled, but I can't get it to compile itself. As soon as it sees line 16 in c00.c i = namsiz; it complains that the LHS isn't an Lvalue. I think I'll stop now, my brain is hurting too much :-) Ciao, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA50367 for pups-liszt; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 02:46:23 +1000 (EST)

25 years, 10 months

None

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

To: Subject:, Re:, The, dsw, man, page, wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au , pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:08:44 -0400 From: dmr To: Subject:, Re:, The, dsw, man, page, wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The A-news archive "man page" article that Fischer retrieved from Usenet of 1981, describing the original dsw, is authentic so far as I can remember. As the article suggests, the displayed man page is a construction, and didn't exist as such, but it indeed described what the ancestral program did. By a year or so later, as documented in the First Edition manual, the behavior and the name were already referred to as "ancient." My, how time passes. Dennis Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA42243 for pups-liszt; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:16:58 +1000 (EST) >From Wilko Bulte <wilko(a)yedi.iaf.nl> Fri Aug 27 19:47:02 1999 Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA42231; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:16:40 +1000 (EST) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id LAA30941; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:53:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA31089; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:47:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte <wilko(a)yedi.iaf.nl> Message-Id: <199908270947.LAA31089(a)yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PUPS Users Mailing List), quasijarus(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Quasijarus BSD Users Mailing List) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:47:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko(a)freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk [this was mistakenly sent to pupswork yesterday. sorry...] Hi there, I've been trying to get 4.3BSD to run on my newly acquired MicroVAXII. I followed the Ultrix route described in the docs in the pups tree. I get as far as: >>> boot dua0 2..1..0.. loading boot Boot : /vmunix 327184+102656+130352 start 0x23a8 4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #0: Fri Dec 25 14:22:17 EST 1998 msokolov@polygon:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC real mem = 16773120 SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 112 avail mem = 14949376 using 112 buffers containing 917504 bytes of memory MicroVAX-II tmscp0 at uba0 csr 174500 vec 774, ipl 15 tms0 at tmscp0 slave 0 uda0 at uba0 csr 172150 vec 770, ipl 14 uda0: version 5 model 13 uda0: DMA burst size set to 4 ra0 at uda0 slave 0: MICROP , size = 1303998 sectors ra1 at uda0 slave 1trap type 6, code = 2, pc = 80031b1c panic: Arithmetic fault syncing disks... done Exactly the same thing happens when I use 4.3reno instead of the Quasijarus kit. Any ideas? Wilko -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org

25 years, 10 months

Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11

by A. P. Garcia

> I'm sure Bob Supnik would appreciate your changes. I have nothing against the Supnik emulator whatsoever. I use it all the time. Before passing these changes on, however, you might want to verify that the licenses are compatible; begemot P11 is copylefted. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA40147 for pups-liszt; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:02:08 +1000 (EST) >From "A. P. Garcia" <apg(a)execpc.com> Fri Aug 27 10:01:41 1999 Received: from mail.execpc.com (dantooine-2-183.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.139.121]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA40139 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:01:55 +1000 (EST) Received: (qmail 259 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Aug 1999 00:01:41 -0000 Date: 27 Aug 1999 00:01:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19990827000141.258.qmail(a)os-factory.whatever.localnet> From: "A. P. Garcia" <apg(a)execpc.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > It was a change to geni.c. The Begemot I have (2.3) had apparent mods > already done for FreeBSD, but I still had to hack geni to resolv the > underscores. it was a simple change though, as I recall. If it's not too much trouble, could you please give us more specific details? If not, I'll try taking a shot at it; I want to compile this under FreeBSD. Thank you. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA41334 for pups-liszt; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:09:14 +1000 (EST)

25 years, 10 months

Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11

by pups＠mrynet.com

> Hi - Hi - :) > > From: staylor(a)mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) > > > >Actually,I had resolved issue of linking and the prepended underscores before. > > With a change to 'geni.c' or by editing the instab.s file? It was a change to geni.c. The Begemot I have (2.3) had apparent mods already done for FreeBSD, but I still had to hack geni to resolv the underscores. it was a simple change though, as I recall. > > For example, run with -b from the command line, it returns the shell prompt > > almost immediately. Otherwise, when booting it simply indicates: > > DCOK = 1 asserted > > Yep - that's what I was seeing until I regenerated the instab.s file > by running 'geni'. The emulator would compile and link with a > manually edited instab.s file but simply would not run correctly. I tried the patches against the virgin begemot 2.3 code, and I'm still seeing the unresolved's due to underscores. Just FYI that they don't apply to the Flea-3.0-CURRENT. Thanks HEAPs tho ;) -skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA38512 for pups-liszt; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:36:18 +1000 (EST) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Fri Aug 27 02:34:39 1999 Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026@Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA38503 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:36:04 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA23443; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:34:41 +0200 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:34:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> To: Mirian Crzig Lennox <lennox(a)alcita.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 In-Reply-To: <m3iu63plyh.fsf(a)shelbyville.oai.com> Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.990826183419.23125A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On 25 Aug 1999, Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote: > I would love to find an arrangement that makes it possible to run an > emulated 2.11bsd system with large-capacity RP06 images.. that would > allow one to have around a quarter-gig of disk space. :) RP06 are 176 MB... :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

25 years, 10 months

Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11

by Joerg B. Micheel

On Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 03:08:53PM -0700, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > ! # define TINTERVAL 16 /* msecs between clock ticks */ > ! /* Should be 16.666666 for US 60hz */ That's correct. I believe there are also problems with p11 missing a couple of timer interrupts. All of the complaints are entirely appropriate, the whole thing needs major cleanup. I hope one of us will finally get around doing some serious work on it again, soon. Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)begemot.org> Begemot Computer Associates Phone: +64 7 8562148 6 Kakanui Avenue, Hillcrest Fax: +64 7 8562148 Hamilton, New Zealand Pager: +64 868 38222 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA54368 for pups-liszt; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:19:58 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Aug 26 09:53:30 1999 Received: from iaehv.iae.nl (iaehv.IAE.nl [194.151.64.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA54356 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:19:40 +1000 (EST) Received: by iaehv.iae.nl (Postfix, from userid 0) id 1520720F92; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:19:18 +0200 (CEST) X-UIDL: 66c16149f459f86a00562537e9612891 To: pb0aia(a)iaehv.nl Received: from minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.160]) by iaehv.iae.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03BD20F6D for <pb0aia(a)iaehv.nl>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:06:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA34673 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:53:48 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA34669 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:53:36 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA07610; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:53:30 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199908252353.JAA07610(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 In-Reply-To: <199908252113.OAA15059(a)mrynet.com> from "S. Akmentins-Teilors" at "Aug 25, 1999 2:13:40 pm" X-Old-To: staylor(a)mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:53:30 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by S. Akmentins-Teilors: [Supnik emulator improvements] > Is anyone else out the hacking it up and interested in sharing > any work? > -skots I'm sure Bob Supnik would appreciate your changes. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA54379 for pups-liszt; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:20:04 +1000 (EST)

25 years, 10 months

Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11

by pups＠mrynet.com

> > From: staylor(a)mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) > > THe other change I had to make was to 'devices.c' to speed up the > clock - it's still not right for a PPro-200 but is better than it > was (the clock was running far too slow, now it's just ~10% too slow). The same similar tweak on Supnik has me to within seconds on the hour. They're all gonna start losing it under load anyways, but that's life when running an emulator under non-RT ;) > > And if anyone has managed to get the Begemot emulator > > working on recent FreeBSD-4.0-CURRENT versions, I'd be > > Not FreeBSD but if you're getting bit by the same thing I did earlier > under another BSD that switched from a.out to ELF the changes below > may be useful to you. Actually, I had resolved issue of linking and the prepended underscores before. The compile has always been clean, but the program simply doesn't work. For example, run with -b from the command line, it returns the shell prompt almost immediately. Otherwise, when booting it simply indicates: DCOK = 1 asserted and goes back to the emulator prompt. That happens regardless of disk image used, etc... I can't effect anything other than these exhibitions. Perhaps somewith with access to 4.0-CURRENT, and who has worked with the code itself could find the time to figured it out? ;) -skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA34673 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:53:48 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Aug 26 09:53:30 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA34669 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:53:36 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA07610; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:53:30 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199908252353.JAA07610(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 In-Reply-To: <199908252113.OAA15059(a)mrynet.com> from "S. Akmentins-Teilors" at "Aug 25, 1999 2:13:40 pm" To: staylor(a)mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:53:30 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by S. Akmentins-Teilors: [Supnik emulator improvements] > Is anyone else out the hacking it up and interested in sharing > any work? > -skots I'm sure Bob Supnik would appreciate your changes. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA36011 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:26:58 +1000 (EST) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Aug 26 15:26:27 1999 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA36007 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:26:51 +1000 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA20951 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:26:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <199908260526.WAA20951(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: staylor(a)mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) > > The same similar tweak on Supnik has me to within seconds on the hour. They're > all gonna start losing it under load anyways, but that's life when running > an emulator under non-RT ;) Actually my problem with the Supnik emulator is that the clock runs _very_ fast - the "PDP11" ends up being hours ahead of the real time after recompiling a kernel or two. p11 on the other hand tends to run slow - tweeking the device.c value was aimed at speeding up the clock. >Actually,I had resolved issue of linking and the prepended underscores before. With a change to 'geni.c' or by editing the instab.s file? > For example, run with -b from the command line, it returns the shell prompt > almost immediately. Otherwise, when booting it simply indicates: > DCOK = 1 asserted Yep - that's what I was seeing until I regenerated the instab.s file by running 'geni'. The emulator would compile and link with a manually edited instab.s file but simply would not run correctly. Since the same RP06 image worked with the Supnik emulator I knew it wasn't in the 2.11BSD area. Steven Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA36475 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:02:07 +1000 (EST)

25 years, 10 months

Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11

by pups＠mrynet.com

> staylor(a)mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) writes: > > So far, I've replaced the KL11 code with a DL11 driver that > > handles four lines. Additionally, I stole the networked > > tty_net driver from the begemot which now provides telnet > > access to all four ports. Additionally, I'm working on a > > DZ-11 driver as-we-speak, and will do the DEQNA next. > > These four ports work great on the RSTS/E and 2.11 images > > I have. > > Really! So far I have had no luck getting Supnik 2.3 to work with the > elfje rl02 images on the PUPS archive. I've always had to use the > significantly-hacked-up 2.2 emulator instead. What did you change > and/or what disk images are you using? I've changed nothing at all really as far as 2.11 goes. Worked just dandy even before my hacking. > I would love to find an arrangement that makes it possible to run an > emulated 2.11bsd system with large-capacity RP06 images.. that would > allow one to have around a quarter-gig of disk space. :) The complexities of begemot, and the relative ease of use of Supnik was the driving force behind my sticking it out with Supnik. I figured I'd make it do what I want, since I could make it work in the first place. Since I'm into the actual hardware emulation, as well as device drivers, it is fulfilling my need here until I ever get a real PDP-11 again. -skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA34419 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:17:34 +1000 (EST)

25 years, 10 months

Modified Supnik emulator for the 11

by staylor＠mrynet.com

Hi folks. Having had absolutely no luck getting the Begemot emulator to work under FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT, I've been modifying the Supnik 2.3d emulator for the pdp-11. So far, I've replaced the KL11 code with a DL11 driver that handles four lines. Additionally, I stole the networked tty_net driver from the begemot which now provides telnet access to all four ports. Additionally, I'm working on a DZ-11 driver as-we-speak, and will do the DEQNA next. These four ports work great on the RSTS/E and 2.11 images I have. As well, I've tweaked the clock timing to significantly improve timekeeping for my machine. Also, I have been modifying an ANSI magtape util package (ansir/ansiw/survey) to deal with the mt images that the supnik package produces. Makes for easy exchange into RSTS, etc. Is anyone else out the hacking it up and interested in sharing any work? And if anyone has managed to get the Begemot emulator working on recent FreeBSD-4.0-CURRENT versions, I'd be grateful if you could share the information and changes with me. Thanks and regards, -skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA33694 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:55:06 +1000 (EST) >From Mirian Crzig Lennox <lennox(a)alcita.com> Thu Aug 26 07:52:22 1999 Received: from shelbyville.oai.com (IDENT:root@[204.57.59.144]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA33684 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:54:57 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mirian@localhost) by shelbyville.oai.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08490; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:52:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Mirian Crzig Lennox <lennox(a)alcita.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 References: <199908252113.OAA15059(a)mrynet.com> Original-Sender: lennox(a)alcita.com Organization: Alcita Technologies, Inc. Date: 25 Aug 1999 17:52:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: staylor(a)mrynet.com's message of "Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:13:40 +0000" Message-ID: <m3iu63plyh.fsf(a)shelbyville.oai.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk staylor(a)mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) writes: > > So far, I've replaced the KL11 code with a DL11 driver that > handles four lines. Additionally, I stole the networked > tty_net driver from the begemot which now provides telnet > access to all four ports. Additionally, I'm working on a > DZ-11 driver as-we-speak, and will do the DEQNA next. > These four ports work great on the RSTS/E and 2.11 images > I have. Really! So far I have had no luck getting Supnik 2.3 to work with the elfje rl02 images on the PUPS archive. I've always had to use the significantly-hacked-up 2.2 emulator instead. What did you change and/or what disk images are you using? I would love to find an arrangement that makes it possible to run an emulated 2.11bsd system with large-capacity RP06 images.. that would allow one to have around a quarter-gig of disk space. :) -- Mirian Crzig Lennox Systems Anarchist Invest in America -- buy a Congressman! Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA33801 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:12:04 +1000 (EST) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Aug 26 08:08:53 1999 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA33797 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:11:55 +1000 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA18433 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:08:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <199908252208.PAA18433(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Scott - Howdy! > From: staylor(a)mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) > Having had absolutely no luck getting the Begemot emulator > to work under FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT, I've been modifying the Hmmm, the Begemot emulator is difficult to set up due to an inscrutable configfile format but it runs here under BSD/OS 4.0.1 after making a couple 'tweeks'. I wonder if the problems you're having are due to FreeBSD switching to ELF. At one time BSD/OS used a.out also and "P11" built/ran just fine - the the OS switched to ELF and P11 would no longer build. I had thought simply editing the instab.s would be enough but after doing that P11 wouldn't run right at all. What I did was add a "-u" option to 'geni' and then regenerate the instab.s file ("geni -u ...") _without_ the underscore characters present. The compiler no longer generates leading '_' characters so having them in the instab.s file causes problems. Regenerating and assembling instab.s cleared up all the problems I was having. Below are the changes I've made to P11 - some are specific to getting the various IOprogs to run under BSD/OS but the changes to geni.c are OS independent. THe other change I had to make was to 'devices.c' to speed up the clock - it's still not right for a PPro-200 but is better than it was (the clock was running far too slow, now it's just ~10% too slow). > And if anyone has managed to get the Begemot emulator > working on recent FreeBSD-4.0-CURRENT versions, I'd be Not FreeBSD but if you're getting bit by the same thing I did earlier under another BSD that switched from a.out to ELF the changes below may be useful to you. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com *** ./Utils/geni.c.old Sat Oct 11 14:01:39 1997 --- ./Utils/geni.c Thu Aug 19 21:07:56 1999 *************** *** 49,54 **** --- 49,55 ---- int code; /* current instruction code */ int ccc; /* current microinstruction count */ int coo = -1; /* what output to generate */ + int no_ul = 0; /* Don't generate leading _ */ int profiler_output; char *ul; /* the undeline character, if needed */ char *ofile; /* output file name */ *************** *** 123,131 **** int opt; set_argv0(argv[0]); ! while((opt = getopt(argc, argv, "vmpo:")) != EOF) switch(opt) { case 'v': verbose++; break; --- 124,135 ---- int opt; set_argv0(argv[0]); ! while((opt = getopt(argc, argv, "uvmpo:")) != EOF) switch(opt) { + case 'u': + no_ul++; + break; case 'v': verbose++; break; *************** *** 275,284 **** tab_out_i386as() { printf("\t.file\t\"%s\"\n", ifile); ! printf("\t.globl\t_instab\n"); printf(".text\n"); printf("\t.align\t2\n"); ! printf("_instab:\n"); for(code = 0; code < 0x10000; code++) { printf("\t.long\t"); for(ccc = 0; ccc < 4; ccc++) --- 279,288 ---- tab_out_i386as() { printf("\t.file\t\"%s\"\n", ifile); ! printf("\t.globl\t%s\n", no_ul ? "instab" : "_instab"); printf(".text\n"); printf("\t.align\t2\n"); ! printf("%s:\n", no_ul ? "instab" : "_instab"); for(code = 0; code < 0x10000; code++) { printf("\t.long\t"); for(ccc = 0; ccc < 4; ccc++) *************** *** 632,637 **** --- 636,646 ---- switch(coo) { case COO_i386as: + if (no_ul) + { + ul = ""; + break; + } case COO_sun_as: case COO_i386_aout: ul = "_"; *** ./IOProgs/epp_bpf.c.old Sat Oct 11 14:02:28 1997 --- ./IOProgs/epp_bpf.c Wed Jun 17 22:16:50 1998 *************** *** 341,347 **** panic("read(bpf): %s", strerror(errno)); bpf_ptr = bpf_buf; bpf_end = bpf_buf + ret; ! INFO("read_input: bpf_read = %d.\n", ret); } /* --- 341,347 ---- panic("read(bpf): %s", strerror(errno)); bpf_ptr = bpf_buf; bpf_end = bpf_buf + ret; ! info("read_input: bpf_read = %d.\n", ret); } /* *************** *** 351,357 **** bpf_ptr = bpf_ptr + BPF_WORDALIGN(h->bh_hdrlen + h->bh_caplen); if(h->bh_caplen < h->bh_datalen) { ! INFO("caplen(%lu) < datalen(%lu) ??? - packet dropped.\n", h->bh_caplen, h->bh_datalen); ret = 0; } else { *pbuf = (u_char *)h + h->bh_hdrlen; --- 351,357 ---- bpf_ptr = bpf_ptr + BPF_WORDALIGN(h->bh_hdrlen + h->bh_caplen); if(h->bh_caplen < h->bh_datalen) { ! info("caplen(%lu) < datalen(%lu) ??? - packet dropped.\n", h->bh_caplen, h->bh_datalen); ret = 0; } else { *pbuf = (u_char *)h + h->bh_hdrlen; *************** *** 360,366 **** *more = bpf_ptr < bpf_end; ! INFO("read_input: %d. (more=%d)\n", ret, *more); return ret; } --- 360,366 ---- *more = bpf_ptr < bpf_end; ! info("read_input: %d. (more=%d)\n", ret, *more); return ret; } *** ./IOProgs/epp_tun.c.old Sat Jan 31 02:52:26 1998 --- ./IOProgs/epp_tun.c Tue Aug 17 19:47:37 1999 *************** *** 13,19 **** --- 13,21 ---- # include <sys/ioctl.h> # include <sys/select.h> # include <net/if.h> + #ifndef __bsdi__ # include <net/if_var.h> + #endif # include <net/if_tun.h> # include "epp.h" # include "../libutil/util.h" *************** *** 44,50 **** argv += optind; if(argc != 3) ! panic("need one arg"); parse_ether(my_ether, argv[1]); parse_ether(other_ether, argv[2]); --- 46,52 ---- argv += optind; if(argc != 3) ! panic("need two args"); parse_ether(my_ether, argv[1]); parse_ether(other_ether, argv[2]); *** ./Config/M-i386-bsdi.old Sun Oct 12 07:10:03 1997 --- ./Config/M-i386-bsdi Wed Jun 17 20:50:19 1998 *************** *** 27,33 **** * define the cookie for the geni program (look into Utils/geni.c) * If you want geni output an object file (see later) this cookie * is used only for the profiler output */ ! /* # define MAKE_GENIS */ # define MAKE_GENIE_COOKIE "i386-as" /* define command to set data limit to K kilobytes, if you need it */ --- 27,33 ---- * define the cookie for the geni program (look into Utils/geni.c) * If you want geni output an object file (see later) this cookie * is used only for the profiler output */ ! # define MAKE_GENIS # define MAKE_GENIE_COOKIE "i386-as" /* define command to set data limit to K kilobytes, if you need it */ *************** *** 43,49 **** /* if you have the gnu libbfd and liberty you can geni have to output * object code instead of C or assembler. You must define the following: */ ! # define MAKE_HAVE_LIBBFD /* if you have it, you may have to set up the right paths. */ # define MAKE_CC_BFD_INCL -I/usr/gnu/include --- 43,49 ---- /* if you have the gnu libbfd and liberty you can geni have to output * object code instead of C or assembler. You must define the following: */ ! /* # define MAKE_HAVE_LIBBFD */ /* if you have it, you may have to set up the right paths. */ # define MAKE_CC_BFD_INCL -I/usr/gnu/include *** ./device.c.old Sat Oct 11 14:17:24 1997 --- ./device.c Thu Aug 19 23:05:53 1999 *************** *** 7,14 **** * generic device support */ ! # define TINTERVAL 20 /* msecs between clock ticks */ ! typedef struct Async Async; typedef struct Timer Timer; --- 7,14 ---- * generic device support */ ! # define TINTERVAL 16 /* msecs between clock ticks */ ! /* Should be 16.666666 for US 60hz */ typedef struct Async Async; typedef struct Timer Timer; Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA33844 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:18:19 +1000 (EST) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Aug 26 08:17:56 1999 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA33839 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:18:11 +1000 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA18523 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <199908252217.PAA18523(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Mirian Crzig Lennox <lennox(a)alcita.com> > Really! So far I have had no luck getting Supnik 2.3 to work with the > elfje rl02 images on the PUPS archive. I've always had to use the Hmm, I've been using Supnik's 2.3 emulator (on and off - I prefer running the real 11/73 though most of the time) and now that "vi" works (there was a bug in the "div" instruction which Bob fixed not all that long ago for 2.3) the emulator's more useful than it was. > significantly-hacked-up 2.2 emulator instead. What did you change > and/or what disk images are you using? You might try using the 2.11 images from the PUPS CD instead. Create a "tape file" (the instructions are in the 2.11 distribution directory) and then use a "toggle in" bootstrap for the "mt" device. The config file I use for this is: set cpu 22B set cpu 2048K set rp0 rp06 set rl0 rl02 set rl1 rl02 set rl2 rl02 set rl3 rl02 set tm0 locked at rp0 rp0 at rl0 root.rl02 at rl1 usr1.rl02 at rl2 usr2.rl02 at rl3 usr3.rl02 at rk0 junk0.rk05 at rk1 junk1.rk05 at rk2 junk2.rk05 at rk3 junk3.rk05 at rk4 junk4.rk05 at rk5 junk5.rk05 at rk6 junk6.rk05 at rk7 junk7.rk05 at tm0 mt0 at tm1 mt1 # at tm1 /zip/mt0 Place your "2.11 boot tape file" (the 'makesimtape' program which is also available in the archive and on the CD is used to create Supnik emulator tape files) in to the file "mt0" and then follow the instructions in the setup/install documentation on how to boot a tape if you don't have tape bootroms (it's less than a dozen instructions you need to toggle in the octal for). Oh - and since the "RP06" disk is just an image to the host computer (to the PDP-11 it is a RP06 ;)) the image IS interchangeable between emulators - I've used the same RP06 image under both (obviously not at the same time) the Supnik and Begemot emulators. Works fine. The biggest problem with the Supnik emulator is that the clock runs far far too fast (at least with a PPro-200 running the emulator) and after running for an extended period of time the PDP-11 system ends up several hours in the future. Steven Schultz sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA33945 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:25:13 +1000 (EST) >From "Joerg B. Micheel" <joerg(a)begemot.org> Thu Aug 26 08:25:27 1999 Received: from begemot.org (negara.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.248.112]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA33939 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:25:02 +1000 (EST) Received: (from joerg@localhost) by begemot.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id KAA11280; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:25:27 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from joerg) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:25:27 +1200 From: "Joerg B. Micheel" <joerg(a)begemot.org> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, joerg(a)begemot.org Subject: Re: Modified Supnik emulator for the 11 Message-ID: <19990826102527.A11262(a)begemot.org> References: <199908252208.PAA18433(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <199908252208.PAA18433(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from Steven M. Schultz on Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 03:08:53PM -0700 Organization: Begemot Computer Associates Operating-System: ... powered by FreeBSD Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, Aug 25, 1999 at 03:08:53PM -0700, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > ! # define TINTERVAL 16 /* msecs between clock ticks */ > ! /* Should be 16.666666 for US 60hz */ That's correct. I believe there are also problems with p11 missing a couple of timer interrupts. All of the complaints are entirely appropriate, the whole thing needs major cleanup. I hope one of us will finally get around doing some serious work on it again, soon. Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)begemot.org> Begemot Computer Associates Phone: +64 7 8562148 6 Kakanui Avenue, Hillcrest Fax: +64 7 8562148 Hamilton, New Zealand Pager: +64 868 38222 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA34224 for pups-liszt; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:57:38 +1000 (EST)

25 years, 10 months

Re: V7M

by johnh＠psych.usyd.edu.au

I still have the tape and documentation (dated 31/1/81). I think most of the work was done by Fred Canter, with help from Jerry Brenner and Armando Stettnet Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA37978 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:41:30 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mon Aug 9 09:41:23 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA37974 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:41:24 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA83043 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:41:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199908082341.JAA83043(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: V7M In-Reply-To: <199908082201.IAA05958(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from "johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au" at "Aug 9, 1999 8: 1:31 am" To: Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:41:23 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au: > > I still have the tape and documentation (dated 31/1/81). I think most of the >work was done by Fred Canter, with help from Jerry Brenner and Armando Stettnet Yes, I had some email with Fred last year. He was surprised that anybody still cared :-) Norman, I thought I updated the archive to say that V7M came out of DEC. Where did I miss??! Also, no word yet from Keith Bostic w.r.t the Unix mallet. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA38173 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:15:58 +1000 (EST) >From Christopher Vance <christopher.vance(a)aurema.com> Mon Aug 9 10:15:45 1999 Received: from smtp.sw.oz.au (firewall-user(a)smtp.sw.oz.au [203.31.96.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA38169 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:15:51 +1000 (EST) Received: from swh.sw.oz.au (swh.sw.oz.au [192.41.203.42]) by smtp.sw.oz.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07722; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:15:45 +1000 (EST) Received: (from vance@localhost) by swh.sw.oz.au (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id KAA18778; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:15:45 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:15:45 +1000 From: Christopher Vance <christopher.vance(a)aurema.com> To: Peter Chubb <peterc(a)aurema.com> Cc: grog(a)lemis.com.au, Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Unix mallet .... Message-ID: <19990809101545.B18749(a)aurema.com> References: <199908060351.NAA04564(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> <199908060548.PAA16635(a)smtp.sw.oz.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199908060548.PAA16635(a)smtp.sw.oz.au>; from Peter Chubb on Fri, Aug 06, 1999 at 03:48:25PM +1000 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, Aug 06, 1999 at 03:48:25PM +1000, Peter Chubb wrote: : >>>>> "Warren" == Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes: : : Warren> According to the SCCS records on Kirk McKusick's 4th CD, : Warren> /usr/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.computer was: : : Warren> date and time created 89/11/27 14:10:01 by bostic : : : A Mallet is an articulated steam locomotive (named after Anatole : Mallet, a Frenchman). 1954 would have been in the midst of their : heydays. Often used for hauling logs. Now, how did UNIX get : involved???? 1954 predates UNIX as we know it, so it's probably : something else or a spoof.... I thought I saw in somebody's signature that Unix was a trademark in Spain (or somewhere) for something not computer-related. Perhaps that might be relevant? -- Christopher Vance Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA38247 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:26:28 +1000 (EST) >From "Joerg B. Micheel" <joerg(a)begemot.org> Mon Aug 9 10:26:33 1999 Received: from begemot.org (negara.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.248.112]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA38243 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:26:20 +1000 (EST) Received: (from joerg@localhost) by begemot.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id MAA70243; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:26:34 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from joerg) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:26:33 +1200 From: "Joerg B. Micheel" <joerg(a)begemot.org> To: Christopher Vance <christopher.vance(a)aurema.com> Cc: Peter Chubb <peterc(a)aurema.com>, grog(a)lemis.com.au, Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>, joerg(a)begemot.org Subject: Re: Unix mallet .... Message-ID: <19990809122633.A70235(a)begemot.org> References: <199908060351.NAA04564(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> <199908060548.PAA16635(a)smtp.sw.oz.au> <19990809101545.B18749(a)aurema.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <19990809101545.B18749(a)aurema.com>; from Christopher Vance on Mon, Aug 09, 1999 at 10:15:45AM +1000 Organization: Begemot Computer Associates Operating-System: ... powered by FreeBSD Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, Aug 09, 1999 at 10:15:45AM +1000, Christopher Vance wrote: > On Fri, Aug 06, 1999 at 03:48:25PM +1000, Peter Chubb wrote: > : >>>>> "Warren" == Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes: > : > : Warren> According to the SCCS records on Kirk McKusick's 4th CD, > : Warren> /usr/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.computer was: > : > : Warren> date and time created 89/11/27 14:10:01 by bostic > : > : > : A Mallet is an articulated steam locomotive (named after Anatole > : Mallet, a Frenchman). 1954 would have been in the midst of their > : heydays. Often used for hauling logs. Now, how did UNIX get > : involved???? 1954 predates UNIX as we know it, so it's probably > : something else or a spoof.... > > I thought I saw in somebody's signature that Unix was a trademark in > Spain (or somewhere) for something not computer-related. Perhaps that > might be relevant? In Germany UNIX Rent is a car rental company. Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)begemot.org> Begemot Computer Associates Phone: +64 7 8562148 6 Kakanui Avenue, Hillcrest Fax: +64 7 8562148 Hamilton, New Zealand Pager: +64 868 38222 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA38292 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:28:52 +1000 (EST) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Aug 9 10:28:37 1999 Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA38288 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:28:44 +1000 (EST) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA28037; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:58:38 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA29375; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:58:37 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:58:37 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: Christopher Vance <christopher.vance(a)aurema.com> Cc: Peter Chubb <peterc(a)aurema.com>, Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Unix mallet .... Message-ID: <19990809095837.F22360(a)freebie.lemis.com> References: <199908060351.NAA04564(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> <199908060548.PAA16635(a)smtp.sw.oz.au> <19990809101545.B18749(a)aurema.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990809101545.B18749(a)aurema.com>; from Christopher Vance on Mon, Aug 09, 1999 at 10:15:45AM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Monday, 9 August 1999 at 10:15:45 +1000, Christopher Vance wrote: > On Fri, Aug 06, 1999 at 03:48:25PM +1000, Peter Chubb wrote: >>>>>>> "Warren" == Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes: >> >> Warren> According to the SCCS records on Kirk McKusick's 4th CD, >> Warren> /usr/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.computer was: >> >> Warren> date and time created 89/11/27 14:10:01 by bostic >> >> >> A Mallet is an articulated steam locomotive (named after Anatole >> Mallet, a Frenchman). 1954 would have been in the midst of their >> heydays. Often used for hauling logs. Now, how did UNIX get >> involved???? 1954 predates UNIX as we know it, so it's probably >> something else or a spoof.... > > I thought I saw in somebody's signature that Unix was a trademark in > Spain (or somewhere) for something not computer-related. Perhaps that > might be relevant? No, it was in Austria. I've forgotten what it was a trademark for, but it wasn't computer-related. In Germany, there was a car hire company called UNIX Rent. I always wanted to hire a car from them, but never got round to it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA38462 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:41:03 +1000 (EST) >From "Joerg B. Micheel" <joerg(a)begemot.org> Mon Aug 9 10:41:05 1999 Received: from begemot.org (negara.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.248.112]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA38456 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:40:56 +1000 (EST) Received: (from joerg@localhost) by begemot.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) id MAA70288; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:41:05 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from joerg) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:41:05 +1200 From: "Joerg B. Micheel" <joerg(a)begemot.org> To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Cc: Christopher Vance <christopher.vance(a)aurema.com>, Peter Chubb <peterc(a)aurema.com>, Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>, joerg(a)begemot.org Subject: Re: Unix mallet .... Message-ID: <19990809124105.A70277(a)begemot.org> References: <199908060351.NAA04564(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> <199908060548.PAA16635(a)smtp.sw.oz.au> <19990809101545.B18749(a)aurema.com> <19990809095837.F22360(a)freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <19990809095837.F22360(a)freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Aug 09, 1999 at 09:58:37AM +0930 Organization: Begemot Computer Associates Operating-System: ... powered by FreeBSD Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, Aug 09, 1999 at 09:58:37AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > No, it was in Austria. I've forgotten what it was a trademark for, > but it wasn't computer-related. In Germany, there was a car hire > company called UNIX Rent. I always wanted to hire a car from them, > but never got round to it. And now there is no reason to rent UNIX if you can have it for freeBSD. Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)begemot.org> Begemot Computer Associates Phone: +64 7 8562148 6 Kakanui Avenue, Hillcrest Fax: +64 7 8562148 Hamilton, New Zealand Pager: +64 868 38222 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA38476 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:41:23 +1000 (EST) >From Stuart Norris <norris(a)euler.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au> Mon Aug 9 10:41:16 1999 Received: from orr.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au (orr.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au [129.78.216.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA38470 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:41:17 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (norris@localhost) by orr.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22070 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:41:16 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: orr.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au: norris owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:41:16 +1000 (EST) From: Stuart Norris <norris(a)euler.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au> X-Sender: norris(a)orr.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au To: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: The dsw man page In-Reply-To: <19990809101545.B18749(a)aurema.com> Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990809103649.24488A-100000(a)orr.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Whilst we are discussing cryptic comments, can anyone explain the dsw man page in the 5th and 6th Edition manuals; BUGS The name dsw is a carryover from the ancient past. Its ety- mology is amusing. -- Stuart Norris norris(a)mech.eng.usyd.edu.au Mechanical Engineering,University of Sydney,NSW 2006 wk:+(61 2) 9351-2272 http://www.maths.unsw.edu.au/~norris hm:+(61 2) 9326-5276 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA38563 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:47:46 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mon Aug 9 10:47:38 1999 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA38558 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:47:39 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.1) id KAA00491; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:47:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <199908090047.KAA00491(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: The dsw man page In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990809103649.24488A-100000(a)orr.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au> from Stuart Norris at "Aug 9, 1999 10:41:16 am" To: norris(a)euler.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au (Stuart Norris) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:47:38 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Stuart Norris: > > Whilst we are discussing cryptic comments, can anyone explain the dsw man > page in the 5th and 6th Edition manuals; > > BUGS > The name dsw is a carryover from the ancient past. Its ety- > mology is amusing. Delete using switches, from memory. You toggled in an i-node number on the front panel, then ran dsw to delete that i-node. A more authorative answer, I'm sure, can be found from the 1st Ed manuals on Dennis' homepage: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/1stEdman.html. Um, just checked, it doesn't say anything about switches. I will try to dig up a reference to the `switches' story. I have seen it somewhere. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA38687 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:56:02 +1000 (EST) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Mon Aug 9 10:54:37 1999 Received: from caveman.geac.com.au (caveman.geac.com.au [203.30.73.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA38683 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:55:53 +1000 (EST) Received: (qmail 24065 invoked from network); 9 Aug 1999 11:03:51 +1000 Received: from trowel.geac.com.au (203.1.26.189) by caveman.geac.com.au with SMTP; 9 Aug 1999 11:03:50 +1000 Received: (qmail 8534 invoked from network); 9 Aug 1999 11:07:17 +1000 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au (202.6.67.163) by trowel.geac.com.au with SMTP; 9 Aug 1999 11:07:17 +1000 Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au?r with ESMTP id KAA26108; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:54:37 +1000 X-Authentication-Warning: fgh.geac.com.au: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:54:37 +1000 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-Sender: dave@fgh To: Stuart Norris <norris(a)euler.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au> cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: The dsw man page In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990809103649.24488A-100000(a)orr.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9908091053250.25366-100000@fgh> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Witty-Saying: "Tesseract - Enter at own risk" X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Stuart Norris wrote: > Whilst we are discussing cryptic comments, can anyone explain the dsw man > page in the 5th and 6th Edition manuals; > > BUGS > The name dsw is a carryover from the ancient past. Its ety- > mology is amusing. Formal name: delete from switch register (you put the i-number of the file in the switch register). Informal name: Delete Sh*t Work. -- Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422 Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA38892 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:31:10 +1000 (EST) >From Eric Fischer <enf(a)pobox.com> Mon Aug 9 11:38:03 1999 Received: from mumble.uchicago.edu (IDENT:eric@mumble.uchicago.edu [128.135.136.93]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA38888 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:31:02 +1000 (EST) Received: (from eric@localhost) by mumble.uchicago.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27243; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:38:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:38:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908090138.UAA27243(a)mumble.uchicago.edu> From: Eric Fischer <enf(a)pobox.com> To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: The dsw man page In-Reply-To: <199908090047.KAA00491(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> References: <199908090047.KAA00491(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> > > Delete using switches, from memory. You toggled in an i-node number on > the front panel, then ran dsw to delete that i-node. ... > > I will try to dig up a reference to the `switches' story. I have seen it > somewhere. This may not be the reference you're looking for, but it definitely gets into the history of dsw. Slightly reformatted from the Usenet Oldnews archives at http://communication.ucsd.edu/A-News/: | Newsgroups: NET.general | From: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!mhtsa!research!dmr | Date: Wed Aug 12 00:35:06 1981 | Subject: etymology &c | | I would advise taking uiucdcs!jerry's account of history and | motivations with a healthy dose of salt. However, his heart's in | the right place (unlike some). | | A while ago someone asked Ken Thompson what he would do differently | if he were to do Unix again. The answer: "I would have called it | create instead of creat." Well, my answer is that I would have | fixed the stupid dsw manual page. Fortunately, I can atone | by publishing a correct account (not the real 1970 manual page, | but an incredible simulation). | | Subject: dsw manual page (honest) | | | DSW(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual DSW(1) | | NAME | dsw - delete from switches | | SYNOPSIS | (put number in console switches) | dsw | core | | DESCRIPTION | dsw reads the console switches to obtain a number n, prints | the name of the n-th file in the current directory, and | exits, leaving a core image file named core. If this core | file is executed, the file whose name was last printed is | unlinked (see unlink(2)). | | The command is useful for deleting files whose names are | difficult to type. | | SEE ALSO | rm(1), unlink(2) | | BUGS | This command was written in 2 minutes to delete a particular | file that managed to get an 0200 bit in its name. It should | work by printing the name of each file in a specified direc- | tory and requesting a `y' or `n' answer. Better, it should | be an option of rm(1). | | The name is mnemonic, but likely to cause trouble in the | future. | | Printed 8/11/81 PDP-7 local 1 | | ------------------------------------------------------------------- | | This Usenet Oldnews Archive article may be copied and distributed | freely, provided: | | 1. There is no money collected for the text(s) of the articles. | 2. The following notice remains appended to each copy: | The Usenet Oldnews Archive: Compilation Copyright (C) 1981, 1996 | Bruce Jones, Henry Spencer, David Wiseman. eric

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