I hope someone can put this machine to good use.
I'd pursue it myself but I live in Portland, OR.
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From: matuscak(a)rohrer.com (Joe Matuscak)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: PDP-11/83 looking for good home
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We have a PDP-11/83 system (BA123 worldbox, 2 DHQ11, RD54, TK50, LA120,
LA324) that is looking for a home. It's running MicroRSTS and is working.
We are located in northeast Ohio. Call or email me.
Thanks,
--
Joe Matuscak
Rohrer Corporation
717 Seville Road
Wadsworth, Ohio 44281
(330)335-1541
matuscak(a)rohrer.com
An interesting article on the early versions of Unix can be found online at:
http://www.daemonnews.org/199903/history.html
The arrtcle, which is an slightly updated version originally published in
Microsystems in 1984, is titled:
A History of UNIX Before Berkeley: UNIX® Evolution, 1975-1984
by Ian F. Darwin and Geoffrey Collyer
Martin Crehan
In article by Robert Harker, 408-295-9432:
> I just joined the pups-digest mailing list which seemed to be PDP-11
> oriented. Is there a different mailing list for the The Unix Heritage
> Society?
>
> And yes, I do have the original SunOS 2.x, 3.x, and 4.x software
> (and maybe 1.x also). As I tell friends, "There is a Sun 100u in the
> Smithsonian, but mine is older"
>
> Thanks in advance
> RLH
Hi Robert, the name is a legacy thing, feel free to talk about old Suns.
If you have the old software, and we can clear things with Sun, then
we could get it added into the archive here.
There was a German web site which had Sun's assent to put some old SunOS
versions up on the web. My email from Robert D. Keys
<rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> says:
Try the http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ site, and it is explained
there. The guy actually got Sun to OK it, as far as I know, but
I have no idea of the exact legalese involved, but memory tells
me it was Sun Germany that gave the go-ahead on it.
The site may have moved to http://sun3arc.krupp.net, since I was
thinking a move was in progress a couple of months back.
I think I got to it via a link from www.sunhelp.com or www.sunfreeware.com.
Hope this helps,
Warren
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In article by Jesper Nilsson:
> I'm thinking about getting myself a SCO Source license,
> but I'm worried that I might get "tainted" by this
> since my day job involves writing operating systems...
> My employer would not appreciate getting sued because of
> my hobbies...:-)
As long as you don't reuse tainted Unix source code in your job, you will
be ok. There are so many books covering the Unix kernel: Lions, Bach,
Goodheart, Vahalia etc., that any concerns other than source code reuse
are negligible.
That's my feelings, anyway.
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Feb 24 10:46:07 1999
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au, Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SCO Source license tainting?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.05-df.9902231646390.8684-100000(a)bartlet.df.lth.se> <199902232152.IAA04722(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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On Wednesday, 24 February 1999 at 8:52:15 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Jesper Nilsson:
>> I'm thinking about getting myself a SCO Source license,
>> but I'm worried that I might get "tainted" by this
>> since my day job involves writing operating systems...
>> My employer would not appreciate getting sued because of
>> my hobbies...:-)
>
> As long as you don't reuse tainted Unix source code in your job, you will
> be ok. There are so many books covering the Unix kernel: Lions, Bach,
> Goodheart, Vahalia etc., that any concerns other than source code reuse
> are negligible.
I think this relates to a spectre raised during the USL/BSDI wars.
Somebody suggested that anybody who had been exposed to AT&T source
code was ``tainted'' and could thus not legally develop competitive
systems. Somewhere I have a button that somebody brought back to me
from a USENIX, with the text ``mentally contaminated''.
Jesper, I don't think you need to worry about the problem. That kind
of restriction would be unenforceable.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
Ken Wellsch has just uploaded a set of RX50 disk images containing
2.9BSD for the Pro 350 to the PUPS Archive. You can find them in
Distributions/ucb/2.9bsd4pro350-kcwellsc
He says:
I believe the RX50 is actually 80 tracks with 10 sectors per track,
thus yielding 800 blocks per disk. I think the first track is
reserved and thus Venix would not let me at it. Hopefully I have
not also lost additional information here too.
All the 34 disk images he sent in are 790 blocks long. Can anybody
tell us if we will need to recover track 0 to make these images useful?
At the very least, I've managed to find the pcreg.h file out of the
images (cat */*.rx50 | less -B), so I'm getting closer at recompiling
the 2.9/Pro kernel.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Jesper Nilsson <jesper(a)df.lth.se> Wed Feb 24 02:00:54 1999
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From: Jesper Nilsson <jesper(a)df.lth.se>
To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: SCO Source license tainting?
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Tjo!
I have a question that I hope someone can help me with:
I'm thinking about getting myself a SCO Source license,
but I'm worried that I might get "tainted" by this
since my day job involves writing operating systems...
My employer would not appreciate getting sued because of
my hobbies...:-)
Has anyone done research about this aspect of the license?
My goals are twofold, running an older Unix version on my PDP-11's,
and of course I want to peruse the source of the classic versions.
/^JN - Jesper Nilsson
--
I've heard of UNIseX, but I've never had it.
Jesper Nilsson -- jesper(a)df.lth.se
Yeah, I'm interested. Can you write up what changes the linux port entailed???
-Mike
At 07:10 PM 2/20/99 +0100, g4klx(a)g4klx.demon.co.uk wrote:
>Hello All
>
>A couple of weeks ago I hacked the program v7 from the bostic_tools to
>work under all sorts of different Unix versions. It worked great and
>allowed me to snoop around the V7 file system images from native Linux.
>Anyone who wants a copy can send me an e-mail.
>
>Anyway I had a few hours spare today, and decided to try adding the V7
>filesystem to the Linux kernel. Results so far are encouraging:
>
>
>g4klx:/usr/src/linux# ls -l /mnt
>total 333
>drwxrwxrwx 7 root root 224 Sep 22 1988 .
>drwxr-xr-x 19 root root 1024 Feb 14 11:55 ..
>drwxrwxr-x 2 3 3 2512 Sep 22 1988 bin
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 3 3 8986 Jun 8 1979 boot
>drwxrwxr-x 2 3 3 160 Sep 22 1988 dev
>drwxrwxr-x 2 3 3 336 Sep 22 1988 etc
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon daemon 53302 Jun 8 1979 hphtunix
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon daemon 52850 Jun 8 1979 hptmunix
>drwxrwxr-x 2 3 3 192 Sep 22 1988 lib
>drwxrwxr-x 2 root lp 96 Sep 22 1988 mdec
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root daemon 50990 Jun 8 1979 rkunix
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root daemon 51982 Jun 8 1979 rl2unix
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon daemon 51790 Jun 8 1979 rphtunix
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon daemon 51274 Jun 8 1979 rptmunix
>g4klx:/usr/src/linux# df
>Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Available Capacity Mounted on
>/dev/hda1 3031184 1920771 953665 67% /
>/dev/loop0 1919 1877 42 98% /mnt
>g4klx:/usr/src/linux#
>
>
>I am using the loop block device to allow me to mount a file as a block
>device, this saves me having to add a new partition to my disc. There
>should be no reason why it won't work with a true disc partition. The V7
>filesystem under Linux is read/write.
>
>Anyone interested ?
>
>Jonathan
>
>
>
>
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Sun Feb 21 12:29:29 1999
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Subject: Re: V7 filesystem work
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9902201906360.1385-100000(a)g4klx.agri.ch> from Jonathan Naylor at "Feb 20, 1999 7:10:45 pm"
To: g4klx(a)g4klx.demon.co.uk
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:29:29 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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In article by Jonathan Naylor:
> Hello All
>
> A couple of weeks ago I hacked the program v7 from the bostic_tools to
> work under all sorts of different Unix versions. It worked great and
> allowed me to snoop around the V7 file system images from native Linux.
> Anyone who wants a copy can send me an e-mail.
>
> Anyway I had a few hours spare today, and decided to try adding the V7
> filesystem to the Linux kernel. Results so far are encouraging:
> I am using the loop block device to allow me to mount a file as a block
> device, this saves me having to add a new partition to my disc. There
> should be no reason why it won't work with a true disc partition. The V7
> filesystem under Linux is read/write.
>
> Anyone interested ?
I'd be happy to add any changes etc. into the Tools directory in the PUPS
Archive.
It's about time Unix could read the Unix filesystem again :-)
Ciao,
Warren
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>From Jonathan Naylor <g4klx(a)pop.agri.ch> Sun Feb 21 19:07:50 1999
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To: Mike Allison <mallison(a)konnections.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: V7 filesystem work
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Hello Mike and the list
On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Mike Allison wrote:
> Yeah, I'm interested. Can you write up what changes the linux port entailed???
>
> -Mike
I assume you mean the standalone V7 FS program rather than the kernel V7
FS support ?
The code was written in old C, and from a modern C programmers point of
view, rather sloppily. The warnings from the compiler were terrible, so I
added function prototypes, and made the code more ANSI C like. Then I got
rid of a few bugs, in one place I remember a character pointer being
assigned to a character.
I then typedef'd the data types so I could use int8, int16 and int32 in
the code to make it more portable. I stopped using structure overlays onto
the raw data as that is messy and is not good for (a) byte ordering and
(b) structure packing. It also allowed me to stop using the original V7
file headers which would have made a public release of the code
problematic.
The data is extracted from the raw block data by using special
architecturally neutral functions into locally held structures. That is a
particular win with the block number in three bytes trick that is used in
the inode.
It has been tested on i386/Linux with both glibc 1.0 and glibc 2.0 and
Alpha/Linux, no changes were needed.
Then I added a few new commands to let me look at the superblock and
bootblocks and a few other bits.
Then I released it.
I have just sent a copy of the program to Warren for inclusion in the PUPS
tools section. Its not very big.
Work is progressing on the V7 filesystem in the Linux kernel. Anyone who
wants the patches for that should send me an e-mail. I hope to get it into
the mainstream kernel in the Linux 2.3 series.
Jonathan
Hello All
A couple of weeks ago I hacked the program v7 from the bostic_tools to
work under all sorts of different Unix versions. It worked great and
allowed me to snoop around the V7 file system images from native Linux.
Anyone who wants a copy can send me an e-mail.
Anyway I had a few hours spare today, and decided to try adding the V7
filesystem to the Linux kernel. Results so far are encouraging:
g4klx:/usr/src/linux# ls -l /mnt
total 333
drwxrwxrwx 7 root root 224 Sep 22 1988 .
drwxr-xr-x 19 root root 1024 Feb 14 11:55 ..
drwxrwxr-x 2 3 3 2512 Sep 22 1988 bin
-rwxr-xr-x 1 3 3 8986 Jun 8 1979 boot
drwxrwxr-x 2 3 3 160 Sep 22 1988 dev
drwxrwxr-x 2 3 3 336 Sep 22 1988 etc
-rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon daemon 53302 Jun 8 1979 hphtunix
-rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon daemon 52850 Jun 8 1979 hptmunix
drwxrwxr-x 2 3 3 192 Sep 22 1988 lib
drwxrwxr-x 2 root lp 96 Sep 22 1988 mdec
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root daemon 50990 Jun 8 1979 rkunix
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root daemon 51982 Jun 8 1979 rl2unix
-rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon daemon 51790 Jun 8 1979 rphtunix
-rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon daemon 51274 Jun 8 1979 rptmunix
g4klx:/usr/src/linux# df
Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Available Capacity Mounted on
/dev/hda1 3031184 1920771 953665 67% /
/dev/loop0 1919 1877 42 98% /mnt
g4klx:/usr/src/linux#
I am using the loop block device to allow me to mount a file as a block
device, this saves me having to add a new partition to my disc. There
should be no reason why it won't work with a true disc partition. The V7
filesystem under Linux is read/write.
Anyone interested ?
Jonathan
<DELQA is not 68k, The DEUNA is. The DELQA is a cost reduced version
<(less buggy too) of the DEQNA and is largely logically the same as the
<DEQNA.
Memory parity exception... Eat foot time.
DELQA M7516 is 68k and lance chip... had to pull mine to check. The M7504
however I am correct as I pulled one down from the shelf before dining on
foot. Oh and the reson I forgot it's 68k, was the DELQA is far more
reliable! that and I only open the BA123 one a year to check the fans and
clean dust. It just don't break. ;)
Allison
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Fri Feb 19 12:36:11 1999
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:36:11 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.cs.adfa.OZ.AU
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Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
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><The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete
><redesign and used a 68000 processor.
>The DELQA was not 68000.
Hate to turn this into a "no it isn't, yet it is" sequence, but all
my DELQA's have prominent 68000's on 'em.
> The board was far to small for that
No, it isn't. The 68000 is the quad pack, and is smaller than either
of the two custom gate arrays that does the Q-bus handshaking.
Tim.
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Fri Feb 19 13:06:14 1999
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Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
In-Reply-To: <006401be5baa$06ce3da0$33d1b7c7@eric-edwards> from Eric Edwards at "Feb 18, 1999 8:48:59 pm"
To: eekg(a)ix.netcom.com (Eric Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:06:14 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by Eric Edwards:
> I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but you can build a working 2.9
> kernel (sans network) from the sources by just commenting out the references
> to the networking include files. I think there is an offending reference in
> syslocal.c also.
>
> Eric Edwards
> eekg(a)ix.netcom.com
> mag(a)csh.rit.edu
What is happening is that `make depend' invokes a script which finds
#includes in the source code, and builds a make dependency. However,
it's not very intelligent, and doesn't ignore:
#ifdef INET
#include <stuff>
when INET isn't defined. :-) This bites on several C files.
You just have to hand-prune the Makefile after make depend :-)
This is 2.9BSD, BTW, ignore if you're not using it.
Ciao!
Warren
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Fri Feb 19 20:19:31 1999
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
In-Reply-To: <199902190157.AA29020(a)world.std.com>
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On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote:
> <You obviously knows more about this than I do. :-)
> <However, as I said, atleast the DELQA have an M68K...
> <And the DEQNA is old, yes...
>
> DELQA is not 68k, The DEUNA is. The DELQA is a cost reduced version
> (less buggy too) of the DEQNA and is largely logically the same as the
> DEQNA.
Really? I have a DELQA sitting right in front of me, and when I look at
it, the large chip definitely says M68000. What could that be then?
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Fri Feb 19 20:22:35 1999
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
In-Reply-To: <199902190214.AA14211(a)world.std.com>
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On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote:
> <The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete
> <redesign and used a 68000 processor.
>
> The DELQA was not 68000. The board was far to small for that and had to be
> Qbus dual width and compatable with DEQNA. I have a few of them in my vaxen
> too. The Unibus versions DEUNA and the later DELUA were 68k and very good.
Hate to disagree with you, Alison. The the DELQA really is 68000, take a
peek inside yourself. It is a dual-width too...
And the DEUNA is T-11, while the DELUA is 68000.
I have never bothered plugging in any DEUNAs myself, since DELUAs are
pretty common, and they atleast are pretty good. Never had any problems
with any of them.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
<I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong, just that I was.
Not an argument, just posting to the group what went private by error.
<Never looked carefully at RQDX?, but the DELQA uses an M68K, that much I
<*do* know. (As do the DELUA)
Having two Qbus VAXen and several Qbus PDP-11s it's old turf. Also I worked
for DEC Engineering. that and I've done a lot of hardware level work on my
systems (repaired dead boards) so the designs are more familair.
<You obviously knows more about this than I do. :-)
<However, as I said, atleast the DELQA have an M68K...
<And the DEQNA is old, yes...
DELQA is not 68k, The DEUNA is. The DELQA is a cost reduced version
(less buggy too) of the DEQNA and is largely logically the same as the
DEQNA.
<> The DEUNA is quite different.
<
<Obviously. But it is also pretty old. Not as buggy though, which should
<have been a clue. :-)
Also The DELUA.
Allison
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>From "Eric Edwards" <eekg(a)ix.netcom.com> Fri Feb 19 11:48:59 1999
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From: "Eric Edwards" <eekg(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: "maximum entropy" <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>,
<pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:48:59 -0500
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I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but you can build a working 2.9
kernel (sans network) from the sources by just commenting out the references
to the networking include files. I think there is an offending reference in
syslocal.c also.
Eric Edwards
eekg(a)ix.netcom.com
mag(a)csh.rit.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:36 PM
Subject: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
>"make unix" failed:
>Make: Don't know how to make /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. Stop.
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>From maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com> Tue Feb 16 23:36:00 1999
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:14:32 -0500
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199902190214.AA14211(a)world.std.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
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<The DEQNA uses a Intel 8751 (an EPROM version of 8051 family). I suspect th
<it may deal with the programming protocol and the ring buffers. The
<chip with the F (with bars top and bottom of the letter) is probably
<Fujitsu.
Correct on both cases.
<These boards had a fairly bad reputation for lockups and dropped packets.
<There was a 20+ wire ECO along with a PAL chip (with 8 of the pins cut off
<soldered on top of another chip.
Actually there were revs A->n and each rev had a step. The last one was
N-11... it was marginal. Good one tended to be good and the bad were PITA.
Also they tended to fail far often than MTBF predictions.
<The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete
<redesign and used a 68000 processor.
The DELQA was not 68000. The board was far to small for that and had to be
Qbus dual width and compatable with DEQNA. I have a few of them in my vaxen
too. The Unibus versions DEUNA and the later DELUA were 68k and very good.
They were partly the reason why 730s and 750s were used for routers long
after they were replaced for other tasks.
Allison
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| Just for the sake of being picky... the DEQNA is based on an Intel
| microcontroller chip (something 8085-ish, I think). The ethernet chipset
| seems to be Fairchild (it's certainly got a big F on it.)
|
The DEQNA uses a Intel 8751 (an EPROM version of 8051 family). I suspect that
it may deal with the programming protocol and the ring buffers. The
chip with the F (with bars top and bottom of the letter) is probably
Fujitsu.
These boards had a fairly bad reputation for lockups and dropped packets.
There was a 20+ wire ECO along with a PAL chip (with 8 of the pins cut off)
soldered on top of another chip.
The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete
redesign and used a 68000 processor.
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Fri Feb 19 10:41:03 1999
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Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:41:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
In-Reply-To: <199902190022.AA25325(a)world.std.com>
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Hi, Alison.
> <You might not be totally out. I also thought the DEQNA was T-11 based,
> <since the DEUNA is. :-)
>
> I have a DEQNA in front of me. There is a micro and that is a 8751 8bitter.
> The big chip is a LSI ASIC that is a linked list DMA controller. No t-11.
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong, just that I was.
> The RQDXn(n={1,2,3} uses a t-11. The DELQA also does not use a T-11.
Never looked carefully at RQDX?, but the DELQA uses an M68K, that much I
*do* know. (As do the DELUA)
> Both use lots of logic in PALs and ASICs to perform several state machines
> needed for eithenet. At the time of development there were few complete
> and fast enough chipsets for eithernet. The DEQNA is mid 80s design and
> quite old.
You obviously knows more about this than I do. :-)
However, as I said, atleast the DELQA have an M68K...
And the DEQNA is old, yes...
> The DEUNA is quite different.
Obviously. But it is also pretty old. Not as buggy though, which should
have been a clue. :-)
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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