Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
About three hours ago I have released 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0, the latest release of
4.3BSD-*. This release has the 4.3-Tahoe userland and a kernel that supports
all hardware supported by CSRG's Tahoe and Reno releases, including KA630 and
KA650 MicroVAXen.
You can find 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 under Distributions/4bsd/43quasi0.vax in the
PUPS archive. It is by far the newest system in the archive, compiled only a
couple of days ago.
I haven't got around to implementing a standalone disk labeling facility yet,
so installing it on a typical MicroVAX with third-party MSCP disks is still a
little bit of a challenge. While working on building this release, I and Tim
Shoppa have come up with a usable solution to this disklabel problem. It
appears in Distributions/4bsd/tips/QTR_disklabel_note. This approach also works
with VAX builds of CSRG's Tahoe and Reno releases (QTR stands for Quasijarus,
Tahoe, and Reno).
Have fun with it!
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
I know you've all been on the edge of your seats waiting for this, but...
I finally got my PDP-11/73 working, using a wyse terminal instead of my PC
-- for some reason neither of the serial ports were sending on the PC (but
then again, I boughtthe motherboard in an alley in korea three years
ago)... Anyway, it boots up with RSTS/E version 9, which is OK in it's
own little way, I guess, but I'd rather be running Unix on it.
So where can I download the binaries for 2.11BSD?
-- Erin Corliss
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sat Dec 26 14:03:36 1998
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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:03:36 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <981225230336.206000db(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: 2.11BSD
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>I know you've all been on the edge of your seats waiting for this, but...
>
>I finally got my PDP-11/73 working, using a wyse terminal instead of my PC
>-- for some reason neither of the serial ports were sending on the PC (but
>then again, I boughtthe motherboard in an alley in korea three years
>ago)...
There are at least two different standards for the ribbon-cable-to-D-sub
adapters, and of course it's guaranteed that you'll use the wront type :-).
> Anyway, it boots up with RSTS/E version 9, which is OK in it's
> own little way, I guess, but I'd rather be running Unix on it.
> So where can I download the binaries for 2.11BSD?
Easiest way is for you to tell us what sort of load media you can use and
have someone write an install tape for you. Do you have a TK50 or other tape
drive on the system?
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sat Dec 26 20:32:47 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812261032.VAA20488(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: 2.11BSD (but no src license)
To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:32:47 +1100 (EST)
Cc: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net
In-Reply-To: <19981226180625.S12346(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 26, 98 06:06:25 pm"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> On Friday, 25 December 1998 at 23:09:48 -0800, Erin W. Corliss wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> >> Do you have an Ancient UNIX license? I don't see you in our list.
> >> You'll need one before we can give you a copy of the software.
> >
> > Nope. I have a licensed copy of RSTS/E I could trade, though... 8^) No,
> > actually, I think I found another source for it, but thanks for the
> > concern.
>
> PUPS is very glad to have been able to have created the possibility of
> legally using these old versions of UNIX. Please don't make things
> difficult by abusing somebody's cooperation. You can get it legally;
> see http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/getlicense.html for more details.
>
> Greg
What Greg says is true: we can't give you access to any UNIX source
code unless you have a UNIX source license from SCO. However....
I should ask Dion at SCO if we could distribute binary-only distributions
of 2.x BSD without a license. After all, freely distributable binary-only
distributions for v5, v6, v7 and Venix (System III-ish) exist.
Just a thought, but for now you do need a source license.
Cheers,
Warren
(Sorry for the rather lenghty post)
Hi,
I'd just try to boot my newly aquired PDP11/83 and was planning to install
2.11BSD. But I've run into one (small?) problem. If I just try to boot
from DU0: it says:
Trying DU0
Error 20
Controller Error
And if I boot the install tape from the TK70 drive and run disklabel,
all accesses to the RD53 drive just times out. So I was going to remove
all unwanted QBus boards from the boxes. And that's what I was going to
ask...
Is there something special I have to think about, like there's some slots
that can't be used, some boards must be in a specific slot and so on?
This is the current layout (which is exactly as it was when it was taken
offline, or so I think)
11/83 (173QA-B3, I think this is a normal BA23 enclosure):
(As seen from the back) Also contains one TK70 drive.
____________________________________________
|Dataram 40903 revG | Empty slot | (2mb ram)
---------------------------------------------
| M8637-EH | (2mb ram)
---------------------------------------------
| M8190-AE | (83 CPU)
---------------------------------------------
| M7559 | M7504 | (TK70, DEQNA)
---------------------------------------------
| M8020 | Empty slot | (console?)
---------------------------------------------
| M7957 | (DZV11)
---------------------------------------------
| m3104 | (DHV11)
---------------------------------------------
| M9404 | Empty slot | (1st Qbus conn)
---------------------------------------------
Expansion box (173QA-B3)
(From the back) Also contains one RD53 and one dual floppy.
_____________________________________________
|M9405-YA | Empty slot | (2nd qbus conn)
---------------------------------------------
| m3104 | (DHV11)
---------------------------------------------
| m9047 | m9047 | (grant cont x2)
---------------------------------------------
| m7555 | Empty slot | (RQDX3)
---------------------------------------------
| m7512 | Empty slot | (RQDX1E)
---------------------------------------------
Plus one external disk box with two RD53 drive. (This system only uses one
drive though.)
Now, what I obviously want to keep is:
the two RAM boards, the CPU, the console board, tk70 controller, deqna,
rqdx3.
What I want to loose:
the rest of the serial boards, the rqdx1e board and the floppy drive.
What do I have to do to make this work? I would preferrably want to fit
all those boards in the main CPU enclosure box. Do I have to re-assign any
addresses (or vectors, or what the correct PDP-speak is). Are there any
slots in the enclosure that are a no-no for the dual-sized boards?
Thanks for any input!!
Jorgen Pehrson HP 9000/380 (NetBSD/hp300 1.3)
jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se DECstation 5000/200 (NetBSD/pmax 1.3)
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum PDP11/83 (2.11BSD) VAX2000 (NetBSD/vax)
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Fri Dec 25 00:10:43 1998
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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:10:43 +0000
To: Jorgen Pehrson <jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se>
Cc: PDP11 UNIX Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: PDP11/83 qbus layout.
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In message <Pine.NEB.4.05.9812232234500.23424-100000(a)spektr.ludvika.se>,
Jorgen Pehrson <jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se> writes
>
>(Sorry for the rather lenghty post)
>
Don't worry about that.
>Hi,
>I'd just try to boot my newly aquired PDP11/83 and was planning to install
>2.11BSD. But I've run into one (small?) problem. If I just try to boot
>from DU0: it says:
>
>Trying DU0
>
>Error 20
>Controller Error
>
>And if I boot the install tape from the TK70 drive and run disklabel,
>all accesses to the RD53 drive just times out. So I was going to remove
>all unwanted QBus boards from the boxes. And that's what I was going to
>ask...
>
A good plan
>
>Is there something special I have to think about, like there's some slots
>that can't be used, some boards must be in a specific slot and so on?
>
There are rules about where boards can go which is an off shoot of the
BG lines and so on.
>This is the current layout (which is exactly as it was when it was taken
>offline, or so I think)
>
>11/83 (173QA-B3, I think this is a normal BA23 enclosure):
>(As seen from the back) Also contains one TK70 drive.
>
> ____________________________________________
>|Dataram 40903 revG | Empty slot | (2mb ram)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M8637-EH | (2mb ram)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M8190-AE | (83 CPU)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M7559 | M7504 | (TK70, DEQNA)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M8020 | Empty slot | (console?)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M7957 | (DZV11)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m3104 | (DHV11)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M9404 | Empty slot | (1st Qbus conn)
>---------------------------------------------
>
>Expansion box (173QA-B3)
>(From the back) Also contains one RD53 and one dual floppy.
>
>_____________________________________________
>|M9405-YA | Empty slot | (2nd qbus conn)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m3104 | (DHV11)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m9047 | m9047 | (grant cont x2)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m7555 | Empty slot | (RQDX3)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m7512 | Empty slot | (RQDX1E)
>---------------------------------------------
>
>Plus one external disk box with two RD53 drive. (This system only uses one
>drive though.)
>
>Now, what I obviously want to keep is:
>the two RAM boards, the CPU, the console board, tk70 controller, deqna,
>rqdx3.
>
What you are calling the console board probably isn't, or if it is then
you want to use the one from the CPU card rather than the M8020 (DPV11 I
think?).
>What I want to loose:
>the rest of the serial boards, the rqdx1e board and the floppy drive.
>
What I suggest is this. Keep the CPU and the mem, the TK controller and
tape, the deqna, the RQDX3 and a serial card (You never know when a
spare serial port is going to be useful - printers, simple comms to a
PC, spare terminal etc etc etc).
A possible layout would be:
|Dataram 40903 revG | Empty slot | (2mb ram)
---------------------------------------------
| M8637-EH | (2mb ram)
---------------------------------------------
| M8190-AE | (83 CPU)
---------------------------------------------
| M7559 | M7504 | (TK70, DEQNA)
---------------------------------------------
| M7957/M3104 | (DZV11) or (DHV11)
---------------------------------------------
| M7555 | Empty slot |
----------------------------------------------
| Empty slot | Empty slot |
---------------------------------------------
| Empty slot | Empty slot |
---------------------------------------------
>What do I have to do to make this work? I would preferrably want to fit
>all those boards in the main CPU enclosure box. Do I have to re-assign any
>addresses (or vectors, or what the correct PDP-speak is). Are there any
>slots in the enclosure that are a no-no for the dual-sized boards?
>
You would have to check with others which of the serial boards is best
supported under 2.11BSD. Steve Schultz is your best point of contact
for this.
Looking at you aoriginal configuration I think that the empty slot by
your M8020 is your problem (unless there is a bus grant card in there)
as there wouldn't be any BG continuity.
This should work and allow you to ditch all of the rest. (saving it for
a rainy day of course :-)).
Regards
Robin
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ Old computers and radios always welcome
Hi -
> From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
> I have connected a Fujisu M2444 9 track to an Emulex TC13 that is in my
> 11/84. The following is what happens when I try to boot a BSD 2.11 tape
> that I made on my uVax3600/TU81+ (@6250 bpi):
What CSR do you have the TC13 set for?
> Enter device name and unit number then press the RETURN key: MS0
> Trying MS0 (tape starts rolling)
>
> Starting ROM boot
>
> 140276 (tape stops)
> @
The Boot ROM did it's job of reading in the 512 byte boot record and
transferring control to location 0.
The bootblock relocates itself to 48kb which is 0140000.
> cables on the M2444 the LED on the TC13 comes on and the M2444 will not do
> anything.
I don't think the problem is cabling in this case.
If you have another system that you can view the sources with the
file you really need to have in front of you at this time is
/usr/src/sys/pdpstand/mtboot.s
The section of code where the system is halting (with added octal
offsets) is:
0262 bne ctlerr
0264 bit $!1000,hter(csr) / any drive errs except HTER_FCE
0272 beq bumpaddr / no, go bump address
ctlerr:
0274 halt
The label 'ctlerr' is shared but it indicates that a controller
error was encountered out of the 'tmtscom' common logic (shared between
the MT and MS drivers):
tmtscom:
bit $100200,(csr) / error or ready?
beq tmtscom / neither, keep looking
bmi ctlerr / error - go halt
The thing to try is when the system halts looking at the registers
(R0 thru R5) _and_ the tape controller registers (starting at 0172520).
It's also possible to look at the command buffer being presented to
the controller by looking at offset 0460 (0140460). Not sure how useful
that will be though.
It might be possible to single step the processor starting at location
0 as long as R0 and R1 are set up correctly (R0 has the unit number
and R1 the control register address which is 172522 for MS and MT
devices).
Steven
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>From Mike Jenkins <mjenkins(a)carp.gbr.epa.gov> Tue Dec 22 08:17:50 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:17:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Jenkins <mjenkins(a)carp.gbr.epa.gov>
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To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
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There is a diagram at The Internet Operating System Counter which is at
http://www.hzo.cubenet.de/ioscount/. Take the "Unix networking" link.
It was published in iX, a German magazine.
Mike
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Dec 22 12:44:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:14:15 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Mike Jenkins <mjenkins(a)carp.gbr.epa.gov>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
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On Monday, 21 December 1998 at 16:17:50 -0600, Mike Jenkins wrote:
> There is a diagram at The Internet Operating System Counter which is at
> http://www.hzo.cubenet.de/ioscount/. Take the "Unix networking" link.
> It was published in iX, a German magazine.
As I feared when I heard it came from iX, it's *very* inaccurate.
For example, it claims that 1BSD was derived from 32/V (should have
been 3BSD), derives 1BSD from 1BSD and 4.1BSD (should be 4BSD) from
the second 1BSD (should be 3BSD), derives ``BSDI'' from 4.3BSD, when
in fact BSD/OS is derived from 4.4BSD, doesn't mention System V(.1) or
System V.3, etc. And all this is OS code, not networking code.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
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>From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Wed Dec 23 05:16:49 1998
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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:16:49 -0800
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
Subject: Emulex TU13 Dip Switch Layout?
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Dear PUPS List,
I have an Emulex TU13 tape drive interface. Does anyone on the list have
the dip switch layout so that I can program them properly?
Thank You,
Merry Christmas,
Rick Copeland
Hi,
I was given a couple of QBus PDP11 on which I'm going to run 2.11BSD or
some other version of UNIX. One /73 and one /83. Both had RL02 drives, a
couple of RD53's and loads of serial boards and an extra expansion box
each. Now there's that little question of lugging them back to my
apartment. So, is there any particular precaution I should take when it
comes to the RL02's? Are they sensitive to vibrations or something? Do
they have to be in some sort of transport mode?
Is there some information available online which explains how to operate
the RL02? Like how to open the drive, for starters... :) Or how the RL02
controller should be jumpered. (I guess that depends on what else is
present on the QBus though...)
Is there some other UNIX version that I can run on any of these machines?
I already have one PDP11/83 which happily runs 2.11BSD so it would be nice
to run older UNIX versions as well.
Thanks!
--
Jorgen Pehrson HP 9000/380 (NetBSD/hp300 1.3)
jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se DECstation 5000/200 (NetBSD/pmax 1.3)
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum PDP11/83 (2.11BSD) VAX2000 (NetBSD/vax)
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>From "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net> Mon Dec 21 09:17:43 1998
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From: "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net>
Message-Id: <199812202317.SAA19857(a)zach1.tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
To: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:17:43 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199812161520.KAA28340(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> from "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" at Dec 16, 98 10:20:18 am
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> > I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
> >
> > Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
> > July 1986.
>
> Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
> of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
> Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
> Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
> in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
> though.
I could donate SunOS 3.2, SunOS 4.0 (MC68010), and the 4.0.3 upgrade to the
archive, assuming they want Sun2 material. I also have the SunOS 4.0.3
_upgrade_ for the 68020. All the tape files are tarred and gziped on a CDROM
I burned not too long ago.
> I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
> Sun tapes?
Well I'd sure love to see SunOS 1.x running on my 2/120. :-)
> Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
> QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
It would be 4-track QIC-11. SunOS 3.2 also came on four QIC-11 tapes. But
SunOS 4.x _probably_ only came on two QIC-24 tapes. (I say "probably"
because my SunOS 4.x tapes are in 9-track QIC-11 format. I _assume_ this was
done by somebody other than Sun so that it could be installed on a Sun2 with
older ROMs.)
- Jim
--
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>From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Tue Dec 22 05:18:19 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:18:19 -0800
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
Subject: Problems booting 2.11 on a 11/84
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Dear PUPS List,
I have connected a Fujisu M2444 9 track to an Emulex TC13 that is in my
11/84. The following is what happens when I try to boot a BSD 2.11 tape
that I made on my uVax3600/TU81+ (@6250 bpi):
Enter device name and unit number then press the RETURN key: MS0
Trying MS0 (tape starts rolling)
Starting ROM boot
140276 (tape stops)
@
The boot programs that are available are quite extensive on this 11/84, it
does tapes, disks, just about everything. The M2444 is checked out by
doing the test (01 start, etc)and passes all the tests. If I reverse the
cables on the M2444 the LED on the TC13 comes on and the M2444 will not do
anything.
Rick Copeland
In article by User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys:
> I went to the archive site http://sun3arc.krupp.net
> and it attributes the permission to archive materials to a
> Mr. Knieriem of SUN Germany, Research and Education.
>
> One of the UHS folks might try to contact said Mr. Knieriem
> to see if adding some of our other early stuff would be feasible.
> The sun3arc site only has binaries, though.
> I would assume the PUPS/UHS archives might work out some kind
> of binary and source arrangement, perhaps?
I've emailed the webmaster at the site which the above query. I've
also added a link from the TUHS page to this site, so we don't lose
the reference.
Cheers,
> Mebbie we has started somethin' 'ere, methinks....(:+}}.....
> Bob Keys
Also we also have people inside Sun too! Sounds hopeful.
Thanks all,
Warren
"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate
> a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite,
> on non-standard hardware?
Telling between pre-Reno and post-Reno is trivial. If you see
directories like /usr/ucb, /usr/doc, /usr/man, binaries in /etc and in
/usr/lib, and so on, it's pre-Reno. If you see all docs, manpages, etc.
moved into /usr/share, /usr/ucb gone, no binaries in /etc or in /usr/lib,
strange critters appearing like /sbin, /usr/sbin, /usr/libexec, and
/usr/libdata, it's post-Reno.
Distinguishing between plain-4.3-based and Tahoe-based non-UCB systems
can be tough, and, frankly, pointless. Aside from hardware issues, the
noticeable differences between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe are the location of
source-form manpages (/usr/man/man[1-8] on 4.3, /usr/src/man/man[1-8] on
Tahoe), MX record support in Sendmail (present in Tahoe but not in 4.3),
and the Olson timezone implementation, i.e., that big pile of zoneinfo
files (again present in Tahoe but not in 4.3).
The reason exercises like this are pointless is because when some brave
vendor takes BSD sources and tries to make a vendor release from them, they
usually have their own mind about what the system should look like,
different from CSRG's. Vendors often take different pieces from different
systems on a subjective basis. A vendor release can have the feature set of
one system and the look and feel of another. For example, Ultrix V4.0 has
the classical pre-Reno look and feel, but yet is POSIXized to about the
same extent as Reno. Thus the blurb above about telling between pre-Reno
and post-Reno systems refers to the look and feel of a system, not to its
feature set. The plain 4.3 vs. Tahoe distinction doesn't really hold in
vendor systems either. Ultrix V4.0 has MX record support in Sendmail, but
its man mechanism is plain 4.3 vintage. Don't remember if there were
zoneinfo files there or not.
/var also has an interesting story. In the BSD line it appears in Reno,
but it originates in SunOS and Ultrix, systems with pre-Reno look and feel
on which a number of directories were moved from /usr to the newly-created
/var. Thus on 4.3 or 4.3-Tahoe you have /usr/spool/mail, on SunOS and
Ultrix you have /var/spool/mail, and on Reno and later you have /var/mail.
Oh, I forgot to mention that the filesystem format changed slightly and
disk label support was added between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe. Again this is
certainly meaningless for vendor systems because they always tweak the
filesystem format themselves and have their own disk label implementations
that are not compatible with the one in Tahoe and later BSD releases.
> The dating seems to be 1987 or 1988. Was Tahoe around then?
The Tahoe tape shipped in the summer of 1988, but of course the work at
CSRG was going all the time.
> Salus suggests straight 4.3 was June of 1986, and Tahoe was June
> of 1988 (Salus, p. 165).
Correct.
> but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared
> in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me.
Good luck. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 will run like a charm on it. If the force
is really with you, you may even be able to run it with the graphical
console, but if not, it's trivial to pull the QDSS boards out and run the
machine as a standard VAX.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Dec 16 06:05:16 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812152005.PAA27002(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981215141724.4474C-100000(a)smithfield.transarc.com> from Pat Barron at "Dec 15, 98 02:34:00 pm"
To: pat(a)transarc.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:05:16 -0500 (EST)
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> On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote:
> No, the ROMP (the RT's CPU) is a RISC CPU.
OK.
> > Yes, there was an IBM'er that said he had some original tapes. I was
> > hoping he would check with someone at IBM to see what the status was.
>
> That would probably be me. I'm still looking - I have a call in right now
> to someone who might be able to help.
Oh, now that might be interesting. Maybe the old AOS BSD will roll again!
> > There was a group at Carnegie-Mellon that had some machines with AOS,
> > but I don't have any pointers to anyone up there, for sure.
>
> Best bet would probably be someone at the ITC or the CS department, or the
> Andrew Consortium. Don't really know many of those folks anymore, though,
> and not sure if anyone from the right time period is still around.
All I could find was one more recent fellow that had a ROMP board and
a set of BSD tapes for it, but he had not apparently gotten it running.
Also, most of the original folks seemed to be gone. Most everyone
I have run into has wanted to run AIX on the RT hardware instead of BSD.
I am beginning to feel like the odd man out if I shun AIX on the RT.
> I have one in my living room....
Gee, that make 3 extant boards and 1 real live machine! Neato!
Have you had yours up with a BSD? Anyone for a BSD rolling party?
Sounds like a little interest, maybe?
I wish Blue would donate that to the PUPS archives, yup, yup, yup.
That would be a nice gesture, and ought to be worth some PR brownies
for them. Technically, would that not fall under the Ancient Unix,
umbrella, anyway? That would be a legalese mumbo jumbo to sort out,
though, and not my forte.
Bob
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Dec 16 07:10:49 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812152110.QAA27141(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <199812152005.BAA10743(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> from Michael Sokolov at "Dec 15, 98 08:04:56 pm"
To: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:10:49 -0500 (EST)
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> "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> > What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate
> > a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite,
> > on non-standard hardware?
>
> Telling between pre-Reno and post-Reno is trivial.
..... Lotsa neat info for us lesser newbie types.
My main reason for asking was to try to place the AOS historically.
It is definitely pre-Reno, and the manpages are in user/man/manX
as to source pages. I was thinking it had timezones, though.
The compiler was still pcc, and a custom Hi-Tech C thing called hc.
> The reason exercises like this are pointless is because when some brave
> vendor takes BSD sources and tries to make a vendor release from them, they
> usually have their own mind about what the system should look like,
> different from CSRG's.
Granted, but the AOS system felt very unmodified, subjectively. So,
I was not thinking it was almost Reno, or somewhere close to that.
Knowing anything of the detailed structure helps me to place it
developmentally.
> Oh, I forgot to mention that the filesystem format changed slightly and
> disk label support was added between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe. Again this is
> certainly meaningless for vendor systems because they always tweak the
> filesystem format themselves and have their own disk label implementations
> that are not compatible with the one in Tahoe and later BSD releases.
OK, the AOS seemed to have a disklabel, but of a different format from
later releases. fsck has a field day if an update to one of the later
after-AOS builds is installed.
What would one use to differentiate the Lite from earlier systems?
The last build was in the 4xx range, and dated 1996, IFF I am remembering
right. It is running gcc at the 2.5.8 level. Are there key file system
dates or revision levels that would help to indicate how late it is?
......
> > but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared
> > in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me.
>
> Good luck. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 will run like a charm on it. If the force
> is really with you, you may even be able to run it with the graphical
> console, but if not, it's trivial to pull the QDSS boards out and run the
> machine as a standard VAX.
It is so ugly, noone in their normal PCish minds locally should bid on
it. So, maybe I will have a chance at it in a reasonable sort of way.
The machine is just the main tower box, and nothing else. It does have
a TK70 tape, but I was unable to open it up on the pallet and see what
was inside. There were no other bits and pieces with it. I was thinking
I could run it with a VT100ish terminal of some sort, as a bare-bones
system in the basement. How would the front/back cover open up, so
I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
If it has been gutted, I would probably pass, but if it was mostly
there, it might be worth looking at.
> Sincerely,
> Michael Sokolov
Thanks!
Bob Keys
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Dec 16 08:17:01 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812152217.JAA06715(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:17:01 +1100 (EST)
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All,
Goodness, that was a lot of email :-) I spent the night playing with
the Graphviz tools, and my first drawing of the UNIX family tree is now on
the web page I mentioned yesterday
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
I've fixed the broken HTML so that Lynx will read the pages. I haven't
had a chance to convert all the version/date information that was sent in,
and I probably won't get to it before January.
Mind you, if people convert it into the file format I'm using, and mail it
to me, then it will be included immediately :-)
Anyway, thanks for all the feedback, and I'll get to it eventually.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Wed Dec 16 08:31:08 1998
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 22:31:08 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
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"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> [...] the manpages are in user/man/manX
> as to source pages.
This is definitely plain 4.3 vintage, not Tahoe vintage. This does not
necessarily mean that other parts of the system are straight 4.3, though,
they could easily be Tahoe vintage. What version of Sendmail does it ship
with?
> I was thinking it had timezones, though.
Well, every UNIX system has some kind of timezone system, the question
is what kind. On plain 4.3 it just remembers "OK, I'm 8 hours behind
Greenwich" or so. On Tahoe it has a pile of zoneinfo files trying to
describe the timezone and daylight saving time rules for every city in the
world. I think these files are in /etc/zoneinfo, or maybe
/usr/lib/zoneinfo, something like that.
> Granted, but the AOS system felt very unmodified, subjectively. So,
> I was not thinking it was almost Reno, or somewhere close to that.
Well, that's good.
> Knowing anything of the detailed structure helps me to place it
> developmentally.
Then why don't you take its source and the sources for 4.3, 4.3-Tahoe,
or whatever you suspect it is, and see for yourself? In my directory on
minnie (Distributions/4bsd) you can find the full sources for 4.3 (both
plain and Rev 2), but unfortunately not for Tahoe (Rick Copeland hasn't
been able to read that part of the Tahoe tape due to media defects).
However, the CSRG Archives CD-ROMs have the full sources for everything,
including Tahoe.
> OK, the AOS seemed to have a disklabel, but of a different format from
> later releases.
Is the command actually called disklabel, or is it called something like
format or chpt? (This is how it's called under SunOS and Ultrix,
respectively, and they are indeed incompatible.)
> What would one use to differentiate the Lite from earlier systems?
If you are trying to tell between 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite, don't bother.
If you system boots, it can't be Lite. "Lite" means that there are no
binaries, only sources, and the sources won't build because about one half
of them is deleted. Now, it's true that there had been some changes to the
source tree between the 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite releases. If you want to see
if these changes have been incorporated into your vendor release, check the
Sendmail version number. For 4.4BSD it's 8.1. For 4.4BSD-Lite it's
8.6.something aka 8.7 Beta Rev something.
> It is running gcc at the 2.5.8 level.
Since I generally don't do gcc, I don't know anything about its version
numbers. However, just because it's gcc the system has to belong to Class
3. This is my own classification. Class 1 is True UNIX(R). Everything I
develop under Quasijarus Project will also belong to Class 1. It includes
everything from the original PDP-11 UNIX to 4.3BSD-Tahoe. Class 2 is
4.3BSD-Reno. In some respects it's still True UNIX (the compiler is pcc and
the kernel is 90% pure), but in other respects it's fallen (the directory
hierarchy is turned upside down and the evil spirit of POSIX starts to
creep in). Class 3 is Net/2, 4.4BSD-*, and Free/Net/OpenBSD. These are 100%
fallen (the evil spirit POSIX runs the sinful world, VAX support in the
kernel permanently broken, the compiler is gcc).
> The machine is just the main tower box, and nothing else. It does have
> a TK70 tape [...]
What else do you need? The disks are internal, and you do have a tape
drive. In fact, not just "a" tape drive, but a TK70, one of the best.
Unfortunately it can't write TK50 tapes, but it can read them, and its
native format is 3 times denser than the TK50 one and much faster too.
> I was thinking
> I could run it with a VT100ish terminal of some sort [...]
Sure! You say it's badged as a VAXstation, so you'll probably need to
pull two or three boards out to make it use the serial console.
> [...] as a bare-bones system [...]
What do you mean "bare-bones"? It's a VAX! What can be more powerful? It
has a KA650 CPU, which is not bad at all (2.8 VUPs), and you can upgrade it
to a KA655 (3.8 VUPs) or KA660 (5 VUPs) with a single board swap (the
memory is the same for all). KA650/655 is already supported by 4.3BSD-Reno
and Ultrix, and will be supported by 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 as soon as I
release it. KA660 is not supported yet, but it will only take a dozen lines
or so to add this support.
> How would the front/back cover open up, so
> I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
There is nothing interesting in the back. The front door opens
trivially, just push the handle and swing the door open. You'll a 12-slot
backplane with a cover over each slot. The covers are supposed to have
labels on them. Reading them from right to left, you should see the CPU
(KA650-BA), memory (some variant of MS650), Ethernet (DELQA-SA), a disk
controller (probably KDA50 or KFQSA), and the TK70 controller (TQK70). If
all these pieces are there, you are all set! Of course if there is more
stuff there you are even more lucky.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Dec 16 09:06:19 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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Subject: VAXen funzies.... (gotta start somewhere).
In-Reply-To: <199812152231.DAA10882(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> from Michael Sokolov at "Dec 15, 98 10:31:08 pm"
To: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:06:19 -0500 (EST)
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> > How would the front/back cover open up, so
> > I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
>
> There is nothing interesting in the back. The front door opens
> trivially, just push the handle and swing the door open. You'll a 12-slot
> backplane with a cover over each slot. The covers are supposed to have
> labels on them. Reading them from right to left, you should see the CPU
> (KA650-BA), memory (some variant of MS650), Ethernet (DELQA-SA), a disk
> controller (probably KDA50 or KFQSA), and the TK70 controller (TQK70). If
> all these pieces are there, you are all set! Of course if there is more
> stuff there you are even more lucky.
This one does not have a handle that I can find. There is a sliding
door over the tape drive, and then a plastic key sticks out the front
of the panel kind of like the keylock on a pc. If that key is the
handle, then, I will open it up tomorrow when I visit surplus again
to pick up a postscript printer, and see what is there. If that key
is not the handle, then it was not obvious what was on that side of
the box that should be the ``handle'' to open it up.
Bob
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>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Wed Dec 16 09:54:10 1998
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 23:54:10 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: VAXen funzies.... (gotta start somewhere).
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"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> There is a sliding
> door over the tape drive, and then a plastic key sticks out the front
> of the panel kind of like the keylock on a pc.
The sliding window (yes, the DEC docs call it a window and not a door)
and the key are there to control access to the tape drive, to the disk
drive control buttons, to the HALT button, to the power switch, and to the
handle that opens the front door (the one you are looking for). The key has
3 positions: top. middle, and bottom. When the key is in the top position,
the window cannot be lowered at all, and the machine is secure. When the
key is in the middle position, the window can be lowered partially, and you
can access the tape drive, the disk drive control buttons, and the halt
button, but not the power switch or the front door handle. When the key is
in the bottom position, the window can be lowered completely and you can
access everything.
> If that key is the
> handle, then, I will open it up tomorrow when I visit surplus again
> to pick up a postscript printer, and see what is there. If that key
> is not the handle, then it was not obvious what was on that side of
> the box that should be the ``handle'' to open it up.
Turn the key to the bottom position. Lower the window all the way down.
Near the bottom of the opening you'll see the power switch and the handle
I'm talking about. This handle moves horizontally (left and right). I don't
have one of those boxes in front of me and I don't remember whether you
need to push it to the left or to the right, but I'm sure you can figure it
out experimentally.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
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>From "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net> Wed Dec 16 15:25:32 1998
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From: "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net>
Message-Id: <199812160525.AAA19173(a)zach1.tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
To: kahn(a)tholian.net (Joey KAHN)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:25:32 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <36766225.6955995B(a)tholian.net> from "Joey KAHN" at Dec 15, 98 08:20:37 am
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> All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
> like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
> to be...
I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
July 1986.
- Jim
--
James E. Carpenter E-Mail: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net
6 Munroe Drive
Plainville, MA 02762-1108 ICBM: 42 00' 15"N 71 20' 00"W
PGP: 7ADE9D99 Fingerprint: 8D AF 63 EC D3 51 14 3E F1 59 8A 68 32 63 3F 8E
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Thu Dec 17 01:20:18 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812161520.KAA28340(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
In-Reply-To: <199812160525.AAA19173(a)zach1.tiac.net> from "James E. Carpenter" at "Dec 16, 98 00:25:32 am"
To: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net (James E. Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST)
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> > All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
> > like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
> > to be...
>
> I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
>
> Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
> July 1986.
Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
Thanks
Bob Keys
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>From Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> Thu Dec 17 01:33:06 1998
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From: Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
In-Reply-To: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
References: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Organization: The University of Chicago
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> I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
> to date and make it more accurate.
Here are a few dates I was able to find, in the format from your
web page:
sysV
Name: System V
Date: 1983-01
Reference: System V Release Description, title page
sysVr2
Name: System V Release 2
Date: 1984-04
Reference: System V manual for 3B2, title page
sunos2
Name: SunOS 2.0
Date: 1985-05-15
Reference: SunOS 2.0 manual, title page
sunos3
Name: SunOS 3.0
Date: 1986-02-17
Reference: SunOS 3.0 manual, title page
pwb1.0
Name: PWB/UNIX 1.0
Date: 1977-07-1
Reference: /usr/news/pibs in the archived PWB distribution
# prerelease test versions: 1977-06-6, 1977-06-13
eric
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>From Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> Thu Dec 17 03:59:44 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:59:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
To: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net, rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu
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Hey, Robert-
do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
--Bill
>From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
>To: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net (James E. Carpenter)
>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST)
>Cc: kahn(a)tholian.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>> > All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
>> > like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
>> > to be...
>>
>> I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
>>
>> Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>
>> Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
>> July 1986.
>
>Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
>of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
>Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
>Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
>in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
>though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
>Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
>QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
>
>Thanks
>
>Bob Keys
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a
"Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Thu Dec 17 04:29:27 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812161829.NAA28899(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
In-Reply-To: <199812161759.JAA02912(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> from Billy Stivers at "Dec 16, 98 09:59:44 am"
To: alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:29:27 -0500 (EST)
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> Hey, Robert-
>
> do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
> for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
> the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
> and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
> ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
> climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
> with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
> be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
> 4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
> around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
>
> --Bill
>
> >Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
> >of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
> >Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
> >Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
> >in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
> >though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
> >Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
> >QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
I think there is great potential in all of this.
AS I UNDERSTAND IT.....
Sun apparently gave the OK to a German archive site to put the the stuff
on-line. That is, in fact, where I picked up my sun3 tapes to resurrect
my old box. It only seems be be pre-sparc related 68000 based stuff.
The details were given on the web site, and were discussed on one
of the Sun newsfeeds.
Try the http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ site, and it is explained
there. The guy actually got Sun to OK it, as far as I know, but
I have no idea of the exact legalese involved, but memory tells
me it was Sun Germany that gave the go-ahead on it.
The site may have moved to http://sun3arc.krupp.net, since I was
thinking a move was in progress a couple of months back.
I think I got to it via a link from www.sunhelp.com or www.sunfreeware.com.
The idea occurred to me that IFF Sun has gone that far, we should check
into putting the older releases there, too, as they may still exist.
Also, perhaps, as they would fit under the Ancient Unix umbrella, I would
think, then PUPS/UHS should likewise take an interest in such potential.
I would be of the opinion that any of the pre-SysIII/SysV related stuff,
in addition to the purist ATT/Berkeley releases ought to be put back for
archival use, too, as it should be covered under the Ancient Unix umbrella.
If I am too far off on that, let me know. I am but a very minor newbie
bit player in all of this.
Bob Keys
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Thu Dec 17 04:43:43 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS Tapes for UHS archives?????
In-Reply-To: <199812161759.JAA02912(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> from Billy Stivers at "Dec 16, 98 09:59:44 am"
To: alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:43:43 -0500 (EST)
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> Hey, Robert-
>
> do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
> for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
> the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
> and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
> ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
> climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
> with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
> be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
> 4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
> around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
>
> --Bill
It would be fun to see some of Bill Joy's hacks....(:+}}.....
I went to the archive site http://sun3arc.krupp.net
and it attributes the permission to archive materials to a
Mr. Knieriem of SUN Germany, Research and Education.
One of the UHS folks might try to contact said Mr. Knieriem
to see if adding some of our other early stuff would be feasible.
The sun3arc site only has binaries, though.
I would assume the PUPS/UHS archives might work out some kind
of binary and source arrangement, perhaps?
Someone other than the tailwagging newbie here, should persue
this and see where it goes?
Mebbie we has started somethin' 'ere, methinks....(:+}}.....
Bob Keys
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>From "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net> Thu Dec 17 05:47:37 1998
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From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
Reply-To: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: PDP-11/73
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So get this...
I downloaded the machine emulators package and the binaries for Unix
version 7 from the PUPS ftp site, hoping that I could use it to create a
bootable disk image to put on my PDP-11/73 that would run getty on one of
the serial ports besides the console... I compiled the emulators on a
Slackware Linux 2.0.30 machine, and they seemed to compile OK. From the
emulator I followed the instructions for booting Unix 7. I had the
following error every time I tried booting:
Trap stack push abort, PC: 004567 (MOV R3,(SP))
Anybody have a clue why this is happening?
Does anyone know how serious SCO is about enforcing the nondisclosure
clause from the Ancient Unix license? I'm referring to this one:
8.4 (a) LICENSEE agrees that it shall hold all parts of the
SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS subject to this Agreement in confidence for
SCO. LICENSEE further agrees that should it make such disclosure
of any or all of such SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS (including methods or
concepts utilized therein) to anyone to whom such disclosure is
necessary to the use for which rights are granted hereunder,
LICENSEE shall appropriately notify each such person to whom any
such disclosure is made that such disclosure is made in
confidence and shall be kept in confidence and have each such
person sign a confidentiality agreement containing restrictions
on disclosure substantially similar to those set forth herein.
So if I mention to someone that (for instance) the Sixth Edition
version of ed didn't have the "j" command but it was in PWB and the
Seventh Edition, and I know this from reading the source code, are the
SCO police going to come after me?
eric
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Dec 15 08:23:22 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812142223.JAA04880(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: nondisclosure clause in SCO license
To: eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:23:22 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199812142217.QAA03614(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> from Eric Fischer at "Dec 14, 98 04:17:04 pm"
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In article by Eric Fischer:
> Does anyone know how serious SCO is about enforcing the nondisclosure
> clause from the Ancient Unix license? I'm referring to this one:
>
> 8.4 (a) LICENSEE agrees that it shall hold all parts of the
> SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS subject to this Agreement in confidence for
> SCO. LICENSEE further agrees that should it make such disclosure
> of any or all of such SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS (including methods or
> concepts utilized therein) to anyone to whom such disclosure is
> necessary to the use for which rights are granted hereunder,
> LICENSEE shall appropriately notify each such person to whom any
> such disclosure is made that such disclosure is made in
> confidence and shall be kept in confidence and have each such
> person sign a confidentiality agreement containing restrictions
> on disclosure substantially similar to those set forth herein.
>
> So if I mention to someone that (for instance) the Sixth Edition
> version of ed didn't have the "j" command but it was in PWB and the
> Seventh Edition, and I know this from reading the source code, are the
> SCO police going to come after me?
>
> eric
I hope not Eric. I'll ask SCO for their impressions, and will pass them
back on to the mailing list.
Warren
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>From "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net> Tue Dec 15 08:31:14 1998
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From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: PDP-11/73 problems
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I recently bought a PDP-11/73. It has one RD-52A MFM hard drive that
boots up to RSTS, eight serial ports (besides the console), and what looks
like a SCSI connector on the back (labeled TK25, so I assume this is the
tape drive connector).
I have connected it to my PC and I am able to either boot it up from the
hard drive or start up into the ROM monitor. Unfortunately, at this point
I can't continue because the PDP won't receive anything through the
console serial port.
Does anybody know if there are any quirks about the serial port on this
machine that would cause this (if, for instance, the PDP-11 required some
sort of handshaking that my PC doesn't do). Also, there is a block of dip
switches on the CPU card that appear to affect booting and serial port
stuff. Does anyone know where there is a list of what these switches
control? Furthermore.... Between the cryptically labeled switch that
chooses monitor or boot mode and the knob that changes the baud rate is a
knob with three settings labeled with an arrow, a talking head, and an
uppercase T with an arrow orbiting it. What does this knob do?
Finally, assuming that the UART on the CPU board is fried and the entire
CPU board needs to be replaced before it will work again, what are the
chances I could get someone who has the Unix source code to compile me a
kernel that uses one of the other serial ports as the console?
Thanks in advance for all of the help that I know you people will send me.
8^)
-- Erin Corliss
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Dec 15 08:30:20 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812142230.JAA04928(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP-11/73 problems
To: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net (Erin W. Corliss)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:30:20 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981214140751.32409C-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net> from "Erin W. Corliss" at "Dec 14, 98 02:31:14 pm"
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In article by Erin W. Corliss:
> Finally, assuming that the UART on the CPU board is fried and the entire
> CPU board needs to be replaced before it will work again, what are the
> chances I could get someone who has the Unix source code to compile me a
> kernel that uses one of the other serial ports as the console?
> -- Erin Corliss
What version of UNIX are you running on it?
Warren
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Tue Dec 15 08:59:53 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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>I have connected it to my PC and I am able to either boot it up from the
>hard drive or start up into the ROM monitor. Unfortunately, at this point
>I can't continue because the PDP won't receive anything through the
>console serial port.
Am I correct in assuming that up until RSTS/E is started, the console
serial port seems to work fine? i.e. you can talk to ODT?
>Does anybody know if there are any quirks about the serial port on this
>machine that would cause this (if, for instance, the PDP-11 required some
>sort of handshaking that my PC doesn't do).
RSTS/E might be picky about parity bits in some cases. (Heaven knows
that it's incredibly picky about some other things!)
On the other hand, your PC might not be seeing the RTS/CTS (I forget
which one it'll actually be looking for) and this is the reason your
keystrokes never go out. Or it might not be seeing DSR and refusing
to send keystrokes because of this. Have you configured your comm
software for XON/XOFF and *not* hardware flow control?
> Also, there is a block of dip
>switches on the CPU card that appear to affect booting and serial port
>stuff. Does anyone know where there is a list of what these switches
>control?
>From a list that John Wilson supplied to me once:
dip switch near handle
1 on disables console terminal (factory use only)
2-4 off off off boot auto according to the dialog mode settings
off off on boot dev. # 1 in dialog mode settings.
off on off " " 2 "
off on on " " 3 "
on off off " " 4 "
on off on " " 5 "
on on off " " 6 "
on on on if sw. 1 off, power up into ODT
if sw. 1 on , run self-test disg. in a cont loop
5 off enters dialog mode on power up
6-8 on on on 38400 baud rate console.
on on off 19200
on off on 9600
on off off 4800
off on on 2400
off on off 1200
off off on 600
off off off 300
All of these s/b turned OFF if you have the console patch panel rotary
switch connected to the cpu.
rotary switch positions definitions.
switch pos.s v v
baud rate auto boot dialog mode
38400 0 8
19200 1 9
9600 2 10
4800 3 11
2400 4 12
1200 5 13
600 6 14
300 7 15
> Furthermore.... Between the cryptically labeled switch that
>chooses monitor or boot mode and the knob that changes the baud rate is a
>knob with three settings labeled with an arrow, a talking head, and an
>uppercase T with an arrow orbiting it. What does this knob do?
It selects power-on mode. I think arrow means to boot straight from the
default device, talking head means to go to interactive console dialog,
and the T with the circle around it means infinite test loop.
>Finally, assuming that the UART on the CPU board is fried and the entire
>CPU board needs to be replaced before it will work again, what are the
>chances I could get someone who has the Unix source code to compile me a
>kernel that uses one of the other serial ports as the console?
I'm sure it can be done, but I don't know of any that are easily persuaded
to do this! It'd be far easier to disable your CPU board's console
port and drop in a separate DLV11-type interface.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Dec 15 09:44:25 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Unix History Diagram
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:44:25 +1100 (EST)
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All,
I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
to date and make it more accurate. The current status of my update is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX:
+ SunOS/Solaris
+ SysVR4.x
+ Ultrix
+ Xenix
+ Unixware :-)
+ BSDI stuff
+ lots more
If anybody can supply release dates and relationships for systems that I
don't have yet, could you email them to me with a reference where possible.
This is going to be a back-burner project, I'll do a bit here and there, but
hopefully by sometime next year we'll have a large wall-sized family tree
for UNIX.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Tue Dec 15 13:23:10 1998
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
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Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> wrote:
> The current status of my update is at:
>
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
I have looked at it. Note that the data files are not hyperlinked. I
don't think this is intentional, is it?
Being the TUHS 4BSD Coordinator :-), I feel obligated to do some work on
the 4bsd data file. Quoting:
> 3bsd
> Name: 3BSD
> Date: 1980-03
> Reference: last-mod timestamps in Distributions/ucb/3bsd.tar
> Successor to 32V
> Code taken from 2bsd
> # virtual memory, page replacement,
> # demand paging
>
> 4bsd
> Name: 4BSD
> Date: 1980-10
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 164
> Successor to 3bsd
Are you sure that virtual memory appears first in 3BSD? I have always
thought that it's a 4BSD milestone. Page replacement and demand paging
probably go with it.
> 4.2bsd
> Name: 4.2BSD
> Date: 1983-09
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 164
> Successor to 4.1cbsd
I would add the following comment:
> # Landmark filesystem change.
> # VAX hardware support extended to 11/730.
> # Now runs on 11/780, 11/750, 11/730.
Further:
> 4.3bsd
> Name: 4.3BSD
> Date: 1986-06
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 165
> Successor to 4.2bsd
I would add:
> Code taken from DEC Ultrix with DEC's blessing
> # DNS added to the standard libc
> # (no MX records in Sendmail, though).
> # Added DEC's VAX 8600 and TMSCP support code
> # with DEC's blessing.
> # Added kernel-only support for MicroVAX II
> # (KA630). Without DEC's help!
> # It's unusable, though.
Sorry, I don't know the Ultrix version (don't even know if it's a
release and not some DEC internal code), but it's obviously among the very
first.
Further:
> 4.3tahoe
> Name: 4.3BSD Tahoe
> Date: 1988-06
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 165
> Successor to 4.3bsd
I would add:
> Code taken from CCI's 4.2BSD-based vendor release
> # tahoe architecture support added.
> # VAX hardware support enhancements:
> # MicroVAX II (KA630) support made actually
> # usable and extended to support QVSS and
> # QDSS graphics.
> # VAX 8200 support added by Chris Torek.
> # New drivers for disk MSCP (U/Q and BI).
> # No distribution tapes for VAX ever shipped,
> # though.
> # MX record support in Sendmail!
Further:
> 4.3reno
> Name: 4.3BSD Reno
> Date: 1990-06
> Reference: Quarter Century of UNIX by Peter Salus, pg 165
> Successor to 4.3tahoe
I would add:
> Influenced by Sun and DEC vendor systems (NFS and /var)
> # experimental hp300 architecture support added.
> # MicroVAX support extended to KA650 (MicroVAX III)
> # everywhere except the tmscp bootblock.
Back to Warren:
> I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX:
>
> + SunOS/Solaris
> [...]
> + Ultrix
I know that SunOS and Ultrix played key roles in the history of BSD
(huge bidirectional exchange of code and ideas between CSRG, Sun, and DEC),
but I don't know anything about versions and such.
> + BSDI stuff
Just like 386BSD, FreeBSD, and NetBSD, it's based on Net/2, 4.4BSD-Lite,
and 4.4BSD-Lite2. That's all I know.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
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>From Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Tue Dec 15 15:10:48 1998
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To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
In-reply-to: Your message of "15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT."
<199812150323.IAA09225(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:10:48 -0800
From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com>
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
...
Are you sure that virtual memory appears first in 3BSD? I have always
thought that it's a 4BSD milestone. Page replacement and demand paging
probably go with it.
The first virtual memory release was 3BSD. It's performance was
significantly improved in 4BSD.
Kirk
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Dec 15 17:36:15 1998
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On Tuesday, 15 December 1998 at 10:44:25 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> All,
>
> I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
> to date and make it more accurate. The current status of my update is at:
>
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
>
> I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX:
>
>> SunOS/Solaris
>> SysVR4.x
>> Ultrix
>> Xenix
>> Unixware :-)
>> BSDI stuff
>> lots more
>
> If anybody can supply release dates and relationships for systems that I
> don't have yet, could you email them to me with a reference where possible.
OK, I've dragged out some old tapes which may be of some interest:
Tandem NonStop UX for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System V.2, 10
April 1987.
Tandem NonStop-UX B00 for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System
V.3.0, dated 22 August 1989.
Tandem NonStop-UX B10 for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System
V.3.1, dated 20 September 1989.
Consensys UNIX System V.4.2.1.0, in PaCkAgE DaTaStReAm mode (yup,
that's what it says). I'm not sure how reliable this is, but the
first package has the PSTAMP destiny921114141358, which presumably can
be interpreted as a date; certainly it's plausible.
BSD BSD/386, version 0.3.2. The tar archive has the date Feb 28 09:18
1992 on the first few files; presumably this is US MST.
Univel Unixware 1.0, also this funny PaCkAgE DaTaStReAm. This one has
a PSTAMP=SVR4.2 11/02/92. I'd assume that they really meant 2
November 1992.
I've got a number of old CDs which I haven't looked at yet. I'd guess
that I have most FreeBSD releases, and we can find the rest.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
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>From Joey KAHN <kahn(a)tholian.net> Tue Dec 15 23:20:37 1998
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CC: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
References: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> <19981215180615.H15815(a)freebie.lemis.com>
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Found this on a sun web page:
SunOS Solaris FCS Comments
OpenWindows
----------- ------- ------- ---------------------------
-----------
3.2
3.3
3.4
3.5
4.0
4.0.2 Sept 89 (386i Roadrunner)
4.0.3 May 89 (Sun2, Sun3/3x, Sun4)
4.0.3c June 89 (SPARC Sun4c only)
4.0.3 PSR_A July 89 (SPARC 470/490 only)
4.1 Mar 90 (3/3x/4/4c except 470/490)
4.1 PSR_A May 90 (SPARC only for 390/490)
4.1.1 1.0 Nov 90 (All Sun3/4's)
OW2.0/3.0
4.1.1B Feb 91 (SPARC only)
OW2.0/3.0
4.1.1.1 July 91 (CTE patches for Sun3/3x)
4.1.1_U1 Nov 91 (Last Sun3/3x release)
4.1.2 1.0.1 Dec 91 (SPARC + Sun4m/600MP Ross)
OW2.0/3.0
4.1.3 1.1A Aug 92 (All SPARC+MP,Viking S10) OW3.0
4.1.3c 1.1C Nov 93 (LX and Classic only) OW3.0
4.1.3_U1 1.1.1 Dec 93 (SPARC,LX,Classic/no-sun4d) OW3.0
4.1.3_U1b 1.1.1B Feb 94 (SPARC3.5/S10,4mm & all 1.1s) OW3.0
4.1.4 1.1.2 Sep 94 (SPARC4m [Colorado CPUs]+new
WS)
5.0 2.0 July 92 (Desktop Sun4c only) OW3.0
5.1 2.1 Dec 92 (All SPARC/no-1000/2000) OW3.1
5.2 2.2 May 93 (All SPARC + 1000/2000) OW3.2
5.3 2.3 Nov 93 (All SPARC + SS10SX) OW3.3
5.3 2.3 5/94 Mar 94 (SS5-audio & Voyager) OW3.3
5.3 2.3 8/94 Sep 94 (All SPARC+SSA+S24 fb)
5.4 2.4 Dec 94 (All SPARC + Intel) OW3.4
5.4 2.4 3/95 Mar 95 (All SPARC+SSA) OW3.4
5.5 2.5 Nov 95 (All SPARC+Fusion-[NO SUN4/SUN4E]+SSA)
OW3.5
All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
to be...
More research: first patch in Sun patch library:
Patch-ID# 100001-01
Keywords: cc stack overflow local variable
Synopsis: C compiler: stack overflow: too many local variables
Date: 20-Apr-88
SunOS release:
3.4, 3.5
Sun's bug database still contains bug reports going back to 3.2 (heck,
even 2.2 and 1.0) but none of them have dates ;(((
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Dec 16 01:04:11 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
In-Reply-To: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Dec 15, 98 10:44:25 am"
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:04:11 -0500 (EST)
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> All,
>
> I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
> to date and make it more accurate. The current status of my update is at:
>
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
>
> I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX:
>
> + SunOS/Solaris
> + SysVR4.x
> + Ultrix
> + Xenix
> + Unixware :-)
> + BSDI stuff
> + lots more
A couple of lesser known BSDish oddities from Big Blue....
Add IBM's AOS. That was a straight 4.3BSD port dating from 1987 or 1988.
This was the only official port for the RT-PC hardware.
Add IBM's unofficial ``Reno'' port. That was a somewhere between 4.3/4.4
port dating from 1991 or 1992. It was apparently done by IBM or IBM
contractors. It looks very straight 4.4, in appearance.
Add IBM's unoffical ``4.4Lite'' port. That was a somewhere between 4.4
and the real Lite dating from 1994 or 1995. It was apparently done by
IBM or IBM contractors, with source trees from two development streams
combined together to resolve developmental divergences.
They all were used on the RT-PC hardware (ROMP Risc processor).
The 4.3 is very nice. Code size about 75 megs binary. It runs fine
on a small machine with 8 megs ram and 115 megs HD, or the biggest
RT class machine. The C compilers are slightly broken, but usually
can be worked around (good old pcc seems the best).
The Reno is fair to good, but missing things like working tape I/O.
You can tar or dump, but no other tape functions work correctly.
Code size about 150 megs binary. It needs 16M ram and 300mb HD.
I dunno exactly how ``Reno'' it really is.
The 4.4Lite is fair to good, but still missing working tape I/O.
Code size about 300 megs binary. It needs 16M ram and 300mb HD.
Bloat seems to have set in on this one, since the whole system is
well over 1 gig in size. It barely will run on two 300mb HD.
The login says it is 4.4Lite and not straight 4.4. There is no
indication of how pure ``Lite'' it really is.
I dunno anything about how these originated developmentally, but
the AOS seems to be vanilla 4.3BSD and all else may have developed
from that, possibly after the RT line became back-burner stuff.
I would be very interested in any history from anyone on the list
that was around IBM at the time on these.
.......
Add Xenix for the Radio Shack 16B machines on 8 inch floppers.
That seems to date from around 1982 or 1983, although I have
misplaced my disks on that one, and don't have the machine anymore.
I was thinking someone on the list had one of those beasts running?
That is all I can think of offhand to add.....
Bob Keys
p.s. Anyone got a spare V7ish Xenix they would part with for x86
hardware? I would like to try a native suite rather than
an emulator, if possible. There were one or two such ports
I am thinking like Xenix, Microport, or PC-IX maybe? I just
missed one a few days ago at out state surplus house, when I
picked it up, looked at it, set it down, and then someone
else grabbed it... oh, well....(:+{{.....
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Dec 16 04:36:37 1998
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Message-Id: <199812151836.NAA26799(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <19981215122947.B11834(a)rek.tjls.com> from Thor Lancelot Simon at "Dec 15, 98 12:29:47 pm"
To: tls(a)rek.tjls.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:36:37 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User RDKEYS Robert D. Keys)
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> > A couple of lesser known BSDish oddities from Big Blue....
> >
> > Add IBM's AOS. That was a straight 4.3BSD port dating from 1987 or 1988.
> > This was the only official port for the RT-PC hardware.
>
> I have a paper about this port which claims that it's in fact tahoe or so,
> and has an independent implementation of mmap(). I'll try to dig it up --
>
> I think it was in one of the old Waite Group books.
Please do! I would like to see that. I did see at one time Tahoe
mentioned, but I did not understand how the IBM ports were related
through that. There are so few folks around that know anything about
these IBM critters, even on the old RT newsfeed. Most of the stuff
has become dumpster fodder, sadly, although I had the good fortune
this past week to resurrect two RT's from the dumpster, and get one
up by combining sufficient parts to get it to boot.
What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate
a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite,
on non-standard hardware? The books get somewhat obscure on this
unless running VAXen or HP300's or such. The RT is a little bit
non-standard. I was thinking it was a 68000ish machine in IBM's
wrappers, but others have said it was distinctly different from a
68000 based line. Also, I can't find anyone that was in on the
AOS project enough to know from whence it was originally derived.
The dating seems to be 1987 or 1988. Was Tahoe around then?
Salus suggests straight 4.3 was June of 1986, and Tahoe was June
of 1988 (Salus, p. 165). Anyone around CSRG then that remembers
when IBM got what code? Salus does not mention any IBM AOS stuff,
only the mainframe stuff. AOS seems to be mostly a sleeper, almost
forgotten in time.
.....
> > Add IBM's unoffical ``4.4Lite'' port. That was a somewhere between 4.4
> > and the real Lite dating from 1994 or 1995. It was apparently done by
> > IBM or IBM contractors, with source trees from two development streams
> > combined together to resolve developmental divergences.
>
> Someone here had a tape of this, yes?
There is a Finnish repository that has some of it relating to the 4.3
port, and one or two other RTish archives. Try something like jumo.luti.fi,
or jumi.luto.fi, or something like that, but I don't have the url exactly,
and can't find the stick'em note where I ran across it.
Yes, there was an IBM'er that said he had some original tapes. I was
hoping he would check with someone at IBM to see what the status was.
There was a group at Carnegie-Mellon that had some machines with AOS,
but I don't have any pointers to anyone up there, for sure. I would
hope the old RT boxes and AOS would fall under the Antique Unix umbrella,
and thus, be amenable to the PUPS archives scope of things. But, I
am only a newbie voice in the crowd.....
>From what I have found out, there were two install tapes and two boot
floppies.
The main boot floppy is the sautils disk (stand alone utilities).
That then loads a miniroot floppy that does the scripted install.
The scripts don't work unless you have the original tapes, and
the orignal hardware configuration which was a pair of 70mb esdi
drives. The installation needs to be done manually, instead, if
the hardware differs from that. It should be a straight 4.3 style
restore process. I guess they expected only to have dual 70mb
esdi drives in the old RT tower machines, as AOS platforms.
The first tape is the combined root and user dumps to hd0a and hd0g.
The second tape is the source tree dump to hd1g.
> The AOS releases I saw all came with source. I wish IBM would donate the
> bits they wrote -- much information on ROMP processor bugs, etc. simply
> doesn't exist anywhere else.
That is how I understand it. There were some manuals for it, but
noone seems to know anything about those anymore, and what info I
have is more sketchy than for sure. There was also some other machine
called an ``Academic Machine'' that was a siamesed ROMP processor
on a Model 60 PS/2 MCA bus machine. I have not exactly understood
how that thing actually worked, and noone on the net seems to have
one, although there are two ROMP boards that are reputed to still
exist that plug into the MCA Model 60 PS/2 box. Apparently the
Model 60 was the terminal/disk IO system and the ROMP board ran
the BSD.
> Patches to fix this circulated widely -- I recall one _very_ late night
> in Bill Cattey's office at Athena waiting for someone in Stockholm to
> send us a patch so we could make some tapes I needed the next morning.
The thing will tar/dump to the tape, but won't retension or erase
correctly. If you know what that patch was, I would be interested
in it, for sure. I assume it has to do with something like twiddling
the right hardware ports with the right bit patterns, maybe, to run
the retension and erase functions on the hardware. I am curious,
though, and wonder if something like the 4.3 mt, which does work,
would work correctly in the Lite suite. I was of the impression
that there was some binary compatibility between 4.3 and 4.4/4.4-Lite,
but I am not sure.
.....
> > The 4.4Lite is fair to good, but still missing working tape I/O.
> > Code size about 300 megs binary. It needs 16M ram and 300mb HD.
> > Bloat seems to have set in on this one, since the whole system is
> > well over 1 gig in size. It barely will run on two 300mb HD.
> > The login says it is 4.4Lite and not straight 4.4. There is no
> > indication of how pure ``Lite'' it really is.
>
> Wow, I wonder if it really is "Lite". Again... I wish IBM would free
> the relevant bits, we've wanted for a long time to make NetBSD run on
> these beasts. One major obstacle is that nobody at IBM seems to even
> know where the "official" sources are, or who would have authority to
> turn them over.
I have no idea how pure or impure the code is. I came along so late
in the song and dance act that I don't know enough of the internals
to compare, yet. So much to learn..... Years ago I bounced this
off our IBM rep, but went to AIX on the PS/2, instead of the RT BSD.
I did not know very much then, nor now....(:+{{.....
> > I dunno anything about how these originated developmentally, but
> > the AOS seems to be vanilla 4.3BSD and all else may have developed
> > from that, possibly after the RT line became back-burner stuff.
> > I would be very interested in any history from anyone on the list
> > that was around IBM at the time on these.
>
> Me too.
Who all on the list were IBM'ers in that era that might still remember
enough of this to fill us in? The history is half the fun, and sure
makes the perspective on the rest more interesting and well rounded.
Anyone on the list actually playing around and running an RT?
I am beginning to feel very lowendian that I am not on a PDP11, VAX,
HP300 or such.....{:+{{... but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared
in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me.
Bob Keys
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>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Wed Dec 16 05:14:23 1998
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 19:14:23 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: A program to read tapes in a snap
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Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
While exchanging tapes and tape images with a number of people on this list, I
have mentioned the existence of this program to a number of people, but so far
I haven't given it to anyone. Now I'm posting it to the list for everyone's
benefit. This program can read a tape on a UNIX box without the user having to
know anything about its format. This program automatically determines how many
files are on the tape, what is the record size for each, and whether there are
any oddities such as partial records. It saves each tape file into a separate
disk file and produces a log of everything found on the tape.
It's a simple C program and should compile and run on virtually any UNIX or
UNIX-like system. The original version was written by one guy I met on another
list once and then it was significantly enhanced by me. I include it below as
a uuencoded gzipped tarball.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
Enclosure: uuencoded cptape.tar.gz:
begin 644 cptape.tar.gz
M'XL("`ZQ=C8``V-P=&%P92YT87(`[5AM4QLW$.:K]2L$-(,-QOC`.!D[ID,(
MM&D)S$#2-YKIB#N=?<-9<N_D&)KPW[N[.OGN'%+:SD`^Y'8FPTE:[<NS;W)>
MBRL91K%<>D#RVNUNI\.7./?:W1W\RSN[M+;D=9YRWNWN[.[NM+>];6)K[R[Q
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M82B3B\R3=WWBG+/$&MRP`57:GI$:D*HG,)\&O+UP`X\@H'#BY?Q&HU&X(IVP
M!"[LQ!?/[M1(\]%'C`!L/$:(ZOW^W)2-C0;_P&K$?'EC9(J#$GAKE#G6K-K\
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>From Pat Barron <pat(a)transarc.com> Wed Dec 16 05:34:00 1998
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:34:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Barron <pat(a)transarc.com>
Reply-To: Pat Barron <pat(a)transarc.com>
To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <199812151836.NAA26799(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote:
> [...] The RT is a little bit
> non-standard. I was thinking it was a 68000ish machine in IBM's
> wrappers, but others have said it was distinctly different from a
> 68000 based line.
No, the ROMP (the RT's CPU) is a RISC CPU. I have a processor reference
for the C-ROMP (the CMOS version that was on the 6152 Academic
Workstation), but I only have hardcopy.
> Yes, there was an IBM'er that said he had some original tapes. I was
> hoping he would check with someone at IBM to see what the status was.
That would probably be me. I'm still looking - I have a call in right now
to someone who might be able to help.
> There was a group at Carnegie-Mellon that had some machines with AOS,
> but I don't have any pointers to anyone up there, for sure.
Best bet would probably be someone at the ITC or the CS department, or the
Andrew Consortium. Don't really know many of those folks anymore, though,
and not sure if anyone from the right time period is still around.
> [...] There was also some other machine
> called an ``Academic Machine'' that was a siamesed ROMP processor
> on a Model 60 PS/2 MCA bus machine. I have not exactly understood
> how that thing actually worked, and noone on the net seems to have
> one, although there are two ROMP boards that are reputed to still
> exist that plug into the MCA Model 60 PS/2 box. Apparently the
> Model 60 was the terminal/disk IO system and the ROMP board ran
> the BSD.
I have one in my living room.... Yes, your description is pretty much
correct. The C-ROMP co-processor plugs into the Model 60 (though I don't
know why it couldn't be used with another type of Microchannel PS/2). The
co-processor card has the C-ROMP CPU, support hardware, and memory. To
IPL the thing, you run a DOS program on the PS/2 that loads the boot
program into the C-ROMP memory, and twiddles some bits that start the
processor. The C-ROMP board pretty much takes over the machine, and uses
the PS/2 itself as an I/O processor.
--Pat.
It's possible that my incoherent outburst may have offended a few people,
in which case I apologise. In my defence, I would like to say that Dr.
John Lions was my lecturer at Uni of NSW, and I still remember him saying
that he and Ken Robinson (anyone know how he's doing?) saw this article in
CACM, and were going to write off for it. Thus from little acorns do
mighty oak trees grow, or however the aphorism goes...
Requiescat In Pace.
PS: In the "2nd Book," look under the "Acknowledgements" section; I helped
him with the NROFF layout (I printed chapters on an LA36 Duckwriter (as we
called them!) to see how they were formatted).
--
Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422
Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
> A lot, so I snipped it out!
>
As long as this thread is red hot, how about these questions:
I have an M4 Data 9914 tape drive with Pertec and SCSI interfaces.
It will do 800, 1600, 6250. I want to set up and run 2.11BSD on a
Q-Bus system.
1) I'd rather not spend a lot to get a SCSI interface. I now have
Emulex TC02 and Dilog DQ130 Q-Bus controllers. Is there
any way these controllers are going to enable 6250 BPI?
2) Is there another Q-Bus, Pertec controller that will do 6250?
3) If I had a Q-Bus SCSI controller, would it enable 6250?
4) (Already asked in thread) Supposing I get the hardware to work
at 6250, will 2.11BSD handle it?
Thanks,
Dave
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Tue Dec 8 06:27:09 1998
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Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:27:09 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Message-Id: <981207152709.2f0000e2(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: 9-track tape interfaces
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>1) I'd rather not spend a lot to get a SCSI interface. I now have
> Emulex TC02 and Dilog DQ130 Q-Bus controllers. Is there
> any way these controllers are going to enable 6250 BPI?
Sure - I use them at 6250 BPI all the time. The controller
doesn't have to know what density the data is at - the formatter
takes care of that. If you absoultely insist on the computer
being able to switch the drive between 1600 and 6250 BPI modes,
you won't be able to achieve this with a TC02 or DQ130 under 2.11BSD,
but this is purely a frill as you can always select the mode from
the drive's front panel.
One thing you do have to worry about is data rate. Pertec
formatted interfaces on "fast" buffered modern drives may want to suck
or spew data at rates that are often too fast for a lowly TC02 or
DQ130's capability to push data over the Q-bus. Most modern Pertec-
formatted drives will let you throttle the rate to something reasonable.
And some more modern Q-bus controllers - like the Dilog DQ152 - have
internal buffers for handling such cases without having to throttle
the drive itself.
>4) (Already asked in thread) Supposing I get the hardware to work
> at 6250, will 2.11BSD handle it?
Absolutely. I use a Fuji 2444 and a Storagetek 2925 with a TC02
and 2.11BSD all the time in 6250 BPI mode. I had to throttle the
data rates on both, but that's not such a big deal.
On the other hand, my Storagetek 2920, which is pretty much a 2925
without the cache option, doesn't let me throttle the data rate
at 6250 mode because there is no effective buffer. These don't
work with my TC02 on a Q-bus machine, but they do work with a TC13
on a Unibus 11/44 or with a DQ152 on a Q-bus -11.
Also keep in mind that some third-party controllers don't interact
well with the fast polling that the most recent Q-bus CPU's can
do. For example, my TC02 won't work at all with
a loaned Mentec M100 (roughly comparable with a 11/93) that I have.
I've never had this problem with 11/83's and slower CPU's.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Dec 8 08:33:57 1998
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Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:33:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199812072233.OAA07800(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: 9-track tape interfaces
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Tim -
Howdy.
> I'm pretty sure that 2.11BSD properly handles TU81 density select
> in its TMSCP driver. (Steve, can you confirm this? I know you've
> made some effort to get write caching to work with TU81's over the years!)
Indeed it does. However TMSCP only defines 800,1600 and 6250 so
on the quad density drive I have the 3200 setting must be selected
manually on the front panel of the tape drive.
Also the 'enable cache' works fine and makes a dramatic difference
on a TU81+ attached to an 11/44. The 'cache enabled' setting is
sticky across open/close cycles so that you set it once manually
when the first reel is loaded. This was done to avoid having to
modify dump/restore/tar/etc
> In any event, remote density selection/reporting is largely a
> frill, as any drive/controller combination that I ever used let you
> explicitly select it with a physical button or a switch and displayed
> the current selection in some useful way on the drive.
Quite so. Eons ago the one Cipher drive supported 800/1600 operation
but the controller (TM11 clone) did not - you just made sure to
select the density on the front panel when loading the tape
Steve
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>From Peter Chubb <peterc(a)softway.com.au> Tue Dec 8 13:48:27 1998
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Subject: John Lions
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Associate Professor John Lions, who was instrumental in UNIX's
acceptance in Australia, and in its popularity (through his two
books) world wide, died last Saturday morning, after long
illness.
Peter C
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Dec 8 13:54:59 1998
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Subject: Re: John Lions
To: peterc(a)softway.com.au (Peter Chubb)
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In article by Peter Chubb:
> Associate Professor John Lions, who was instrumental in UNIX's
> acceptance in Australia, and in its popularity (through his two
> books) world wide, died last Saturday morning, after long
> illness.
Gee, that's very bad news.
Thanks for the email, Peter.
Warren
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>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Tue Dec 8 17:19:34 1998
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 8 Dec 1998 07:19:34 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: 9-track tape interfaces
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Dear Tim,
You write:
> Hmm - you said it has a 40-pin connector.
Yes. A straight flat ribbon cable connects it to the bulkhead, which has
a female 37-lead D-sub connector on the outside.
> Any obvious buffers (or banks of buffers) near the external connector?
I have just spent a couple of hours tracing the etches on this board,
and here is what I have found out. One side of the 40-pin connector is all
ground (well, that's pretty obvious). On other side we have the following.
4 pins are permanently connected to pull-up resistors, and one pin is
permanently connected to a pull-down resistor. The other 15 pins are
connected through jumpers so that the user can connect or disconnect them
on an individual basis. Some of these go to different outputs of a 74S241
(dual 4-bit 3-state buffer), some go to a 7437 (unfamiliar with this IC),
and some go to a missing IC.
Both halves of the 74S241 are permanently enabled. All 8 outputs of this
half are connected to different pins on the connector. 7 of them are
connected in the obvious way, but one is also connected to a pull-up
resistor (purpose non-understood, since the 3-state buffer is always
enabled). The jumpers for all 8 are ON. Then there are 3 pins that go to
the 7437. Although 3 pins of the connector are used for this, 4 pins of the
7437 are used. Two of the connector pins go through simple jumpers, and
both are OFF. The third pin is connected to two different 7437 pins through
different jumpers. One of them is ON and the other is OFF. Finally, there
are 4 pins that connect to a missing IC. The jumpers for all 4 are OFF.
Now, does this tell you anything? :-)
> What are the date codes on the chips?
The most recent dates are mid-1988.
> [Explanation of the mess with host-side density control]
OK, from now on I'll only use the front panel switch for density
selection. :-)
> other times they're used to put the drive into streaming
> vs non-streaming mode, other times it's used to change the speed on
> a streaming drive.
Hmm, this is another big gap in my knowledge. What does streaming vs.
non-streaming mean?
> The QT13 will support either IDEN-style density select or CDC-style
> density select [...]
How does it determine which one to use? Is there a switch on the board?
> Yep, the RC25 also used the LESI bus. (LESI="Low End Storage
> Interconnect".)
Hmm, so then KLESI can do disk MSCP as well as TMSCP, right? Can it do
both simultaneously or only one at a time?
> They all look similar, and have similar mechanics, but the 81's
> electronics can do 6250 BPI, something an 80's can't.
But they are all different CDC Keystones, right? This means that my
Keystone may or may not support 6250 BPI, right? How can I tell?
> No, the Keystone and the Kennedy 9300 are not the same beast. The
> Keystone is a cute little streaming tape drive, while the 9300 is
> a humongous [...]
"Cute little"?!?! I mean, I'm still amazed how I was able to get it
inside my apartment without knocking a couple walls down first! It's
certainly huge compared to the REALLY cute little Cipher we had at CWRU. (I
really miss that Cipher, BTW. Not only is it much smaller, according to
what I have been able to glean from the docs, it's much easier to load
tapes into than the Keystone. But then of course if this Keystone does 6250
BPI I will be much more than happy with it.)
But hey, if the Keystone is a cute little baby, poor CSRG fellows! I
think Kennedy 9300 was their primary machine, and I can just imagine what
it is like if the Keystone is "cute little". Does the 9300 do 6250 BPI?
> [...] vacuum-column 125IPS machine.
Yet another gap in my knowledge. I remember seeing the term "vacuum
columns" in the BSD documentation and having no idea what are they. Could
you enlighten me?
> (I'm sure someone will
> now chime in about the days when Univac UniServo drives ruled the
> earth...)
Just out of curiosity, what are they?
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Dec 8 18:49:40 1998
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To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: 9-track tape interfaces
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On 8 Dec 1998, Michael Sokolov wrote:
> on an individual basis. Some of these go to different outputs of a 74S241
> (dual 4-bit 3-state buffer), some go to a 7437 (unfamiliar with this IC),
>From my TTL Data Book: Quadruple 2-input positive-NAND buffer (Y=AB bar).
Outputs are 3, 6, 8, 11. Corresponding inputs are 1/2, 4/5, 9/10, 12/13.
Vcc is 14, GND is 7.
> Hmm, this is another big gap in my knowledge. What does streaming vs.
> non-streaming mean?
Streaming means that data can be supplied to the tape (or read from) fast
enough to keep it moving, as opposed stop/start (or more likely, stop
backspace start). Requires double-buffering somewhere.
> Yet another gap in my knowledge. I remember seeing the term "vacuum
> columns" in the BSD documentation and having no idea what are they. Could
> you enlighten me?
ROTFL :-) Look at an old Sci-Fi movie some time, in particular the
obligatory IBM tape drives spinning back and forth. The vacuum columns
were buffers; columns into which bits of the tape were sucked so as to
keep the tape moving past the heads at constant velocity (not sure how
good the clock recovery was in those days) whilst the reels did their
thing. The column has various pairs of pressure sensors, between which
the tape was kept for that particular mode; if it crept past one hole,
it upset the pressure differential, and the pumps came into play...
Remember, folks; this real-time stuff was *before* micro-chips! I still
remember looking at the old Cipher (I have the magic codes somewhere, that
allowed it to load with the door open etc) aghast that it had no vacuum
columns, but swing-arms instead...
> > (I'm sure someone will
> > now chime in about the days when Univac UniServo drives ruled the
> > earth...)
>
> Just out of curiosity, what are they?
Big BIG tape drives - real Sci-Fi material :-)
--
Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422
Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Dec 8 19:06:34 1998
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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:36:34 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au>,
Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: 9-track tape interfaces
References: <199812080719.MAA16509(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> <Pine.GSO.4.03.9812081928170.14240-100000@fgh>
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On Tuesday, 8 December 1998 at 19:49:40 +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On 8 Dec 1998, Michael Sokolov wrote:
>>> (I'm sure someone will now chime in about the days when Univac
>>> UniServo drives ruled the earth...)
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, what are they?
>
> Big BIG tape drives - real Sci-Fi material :-)
UniServo was UNIVAC's name for all its tape drives, at least as long
as I was involved with them. They were all vacuum column jobs, but
some were definitely ``cheap'' ones, such as the UniServo 6 and 12,
which were intended for smaller machines. IIRC the latest ``big''
ones were the UniServo 16 and 20, at least when I was still involved
with UNIVAC.
Greg
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Dec 8 23:59:53 1998
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On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> Thanks for letting us know. Damn...
Sic transit gloria mundi.
Damn.
John, why did you have to die? You taught me everything that I knew.
Shit.
--
Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422
Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Wed Dec 9 00:13:08 1998
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 8 Dec 1998 14:13:08 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: 9-track tape interfaces
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Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> wrote:
> From my TTL Data Book: Quadruple 2-input positive-NAND buffer (Y=AB bar).
> Outputs are 3, 6, 8, 11. Corresponding inputs are 1/2, 4/5, 9/10, 12/13.
> Vcc is 14, GND is 7.
Looks trivial, except that the author of the digital design textbook I'm
using has chosen to omit it. :-) Anyway, I have looked at the board again,
and all pins that go to the connector are outputs. This means that at least
in this form, with the U10 chip omitted, there are NO inputs on that
connector, only outputs.
That missing chip could very well have to do with inputs, though. Hmm,
there are 4 lines going to that missing chip, and that sounds like the
number of input lines in some flavor of Centronics. On the output side, 8
pins go to the 74S241 and 3 pins go to the 7437, again suggesting 8-bit
output and some control signals.
All this sounds very much like Centronics or some similar interface.
Figuring out what the host interface is and what do those myriads of
switches and jumpers mean would be harder, though.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
