I've assembled some notes from old manuals and other sources
on the formats used for on-disk file systems through the
Seventh Edition:
http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/~norman/old-unix/old-fs.html
Additional notes, comments on style, and whatnot are welcome.
(It may be sensible to send anything in the last two categories
directly to me, rather than to the whole list.)
Hi,
I successfully made SIMH VAX-11/780 emulator run 32V, 3BSD and 4.0BSD.
Details are on my web site (thogh rather tarse):
http://zazie.tom-yam.or.jp/starunix/
Enjoy!
Naoki Hamada
nao(a)tom-yam.or.jp
hi everyone,
Just to let you all know that a few years ago I adapted the 2.11BSD
source so that it could be built on a modern system and transferred
across to the PDP-11. The changes are:
1. The PDP-11 assembler was written in assembler so made a
line-by-line translation into C code.
2. The C compiler required access to PDP-11 math e.g. for constant
folding, so I inserted some code from Bob Supnik's emulator in those
places.
3. Basically everything that runs from a makefile (e.g. "sh", "make",
"yacc", etc) has been upgraded to a more modern coding style with non
portable code fixed up, independence on type sizes, prototypes added,
etc, and the build system now generates two versions where
appropriate, one for running locally (compiled with gcc or whatever
your local compiler is) and one for inclusion in the distribution
(compiled with the PDP-11 cross toolchain).
4. I also fixed a number of "just plain bugs" that obviously had
remained undiscovered under PDP-11 conditions.
I used conditional compilation and macros where appropriate so as not
to break the PDP-11's ability to run the toolchain locally. I used a
binary comparison between the locally compiled build and the cross
compiled build to weed out bugs, and it did seem to be pretty robust
as I left it. The only reason I didn't make this work available
generally (apart from laziness), was that there's quite a few
experimental changes in addition to points 1-4, for example:
5. A reworking of the (existing) system that extracts strings and puts
them in the code segment (necessary to get the PDP-11 to run large
executables such as nethack). I can't really remember why I did this,
probably just to clean things up, but I don't think it's all that
essential so perhaps could be removed for the sake of minimal change.
6. Some changes to how "make" works, and to the Makefiles, intended to
clean things up, which in retrospect weren't essential and should be
removed (except for those changes necessary for point 3 above, need to
untangle it somehow). I didn't get around to converting all Makefiles
so there's probably a bit of inconsistency there. I might have broken
some things like "make tags" and "make depend", not sure.
7. Fortran stuff had to be disabled as the Fortran compiler is written
in assembly language (IIRC) and would probably be difficult to convert
into C (but I don't think this is a big deal).
If anybody volunteers to sift through the changes and sort out the
good from the dross then I will happily send the whole thing.
cheers, Nick
You've bested me there -- by a little. I only had the Sixth Edition on an 11/45. Now I could probably emulate that system on this iPhone, and it would run faster than the actual hardware.
Oh well, time to stop wallowing in nostalgia. ;-)
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2010, at 9:42 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
> And besides, I've used V5 on a /40 :-)
>
> -- Dave, turning 58 next month
I do indeed.
At 10:02 AM 9/29/2010 -0400, Bill Pechter wrote:
>Anyone else here remember fansi-console's ansi emulator.
>
>Works great instead of ansi.sys and is a pretty good screen driver for dos.
>
>On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 5:24 AM, Johnny Billquist
><<mailto:bqt@softjar.se>bqt(a)softjar.se> wrote:
>Mark Tuson wrote:
>Hi everyone, this is my first message, after being on the mailing list for
>the best part of three years :)
>
>Though I might consider 2.11BSD, if that'll work on a machine with 24M of
>core, and if the escapes will display properly, because
>[24;1H[?1h=[;H[2J
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~[H
>
>is a little bit difficult to work with when I'm wanting to edit source code.
>
>
>2.11BSD won't make a difference. You'll see the same result. This is a
>problem because you are running under DOS. It is the DOS screen handler
>that needs to understand whatever codes are output by the programs running
>inside simh. In this case, the program inside simh thinks it is connected
>to a VT100 (or xterm, or something similar), and sends escape codes based
>on that. I don't know why it thinks so, but I suspect you told the system
>by setting the TERM variable. Please set it to something that matches
>reality, or else fix reality. :-)
>
> Johnny
>
>
>
>Anyone else here remember fansi-console's ansi emulator.
>
>Works great instead of ansi.sys and is a pretty good screen driver for dos.
>
><http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-11953307.html>http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-11953307.html
>
>Bill
>
>--
> d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
> <http://pechter-at-gmail.com>pechter-at-gmail.com
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
>https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
---
Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
cube1(a)charter.net
> > There is close zero chance I'll ever use this stuff,
> > unless I retire
> > to teaching in which case I'll make people write
> > PDP-11 assembler.
>
> That seems a tad archaic. MIPS might be a better
> choice; it's 32-bit
> with 32 registers, and there are excellent simulators for
> it.
At my university there's a grad class that's ostensibly on reverse
engineering,but you can't really disassemble anything if you don't
learn assembler, so you learn it. The downside, I guess, is that
I've read a decent amount of x86 assembler, but written very little.
I don't think it's a bad way to learn, but of course, Larry was
talking about teaching a nice instruction set, and you
kind of lose that. But you get Windows DLL function calling
back as a booby prize.
John Finigan
Hi everyone, this is my first message, after being on the mailing list
for the best part of three years :)
I've a couple of [hopefully] simple questions about running Seventh
Edition UNIX on SIMH.
The first question is: how can I get the C compiler to work properly?
When I've tried to compile programs, I get 'cannot create temp' - here's
a full list of what's on the screen:
@boot
New Boot, known devices are hp ht rk rl rp tm vt
: rl(0,0)rl2unix
mem = 177856
# Thu Sep 22 07:50:47 EDT 1988
login: mark
$ ed
a
main() {
printf(" Hello.\n");
return; }
.
w a.c
46
q
$ cc a.c
cc: cannot create temp
$
Also, how can I get the backspace key to erase? I've done /stty erase
'^H'/ but I have to actually type <CTRL>+H to erase.
The other thing I want to ask about is: can I compile SIMH on DOS, so it
doesn't display any messages except those of the simulated software, and
so it ignores ^E?
I'm asking because I want v7 on an ancient laptop I've got lying around
- a 486 with 24M of core. v7x86 won't work on it, and I don't really
fancy putting Slack 3 back on it - if I'm going to go outdated, I might
as well go the whole hog and go /really/ outdated.
Though I might consider 2.11BSD, if that'll work on a machine with 24M
of core, and if the escapes will display properly, because
[24;1H[?1h=[;H[2J
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~[H
is a little bit difficult to work with when I'm wanting to edit source code.
Thanks very much. Mark Tuson.
I see The Unix Tree has browsable "4.1c BSD". Where can I download this
(so I don't have to browse)?
Also where can I find downloads for 4.1BSD and 4.1aBSD and 4.1cBSD and
anything after 2BSD but before 2.79BSD?
Thanks
Jeremy C. Reed
Hello.
I have a working Data General Aviion AV5500.
I'm searching for DG/UX tape images, documents and software for it,
specially
development kits for C.
Anybody has a machine like this or some data?
Thanks
Andrea
I managed to get 2.11 installed on SIMH, and hacked the de driver to work
(pretty much the same thing I did for 4.2 BSD on the 11/780) and now I've
gotten it networking.
I'll admit I'm not all that swift on the pdp-11, but I get the impression
that the maximum exe size is 128kb with 64kb of instructions, and 64kb of
data? Isn't there something that can be done with overlays or some other
linker thing to act like an 8086/80286 with the large memory model (ie
multiple segments...?)
I've been trying to build ircII-4.4 and I can't figure out how to link
something that big... I've tried the -Z and -O flags to ld to no avail.
Clearly I'm doing either something wrong, or impossible or stupid.
FWIW, here is the size of the same program on the VAX
myname# ls -l irc-4.4
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 413696 Jun 8 08:46 irc-4.4*
myname# size irc-4.4
text data bss dec hex
293888 67584 20784 382256 5d530
I have a feeling that 300kb of text, along with 67kb of data is just too
much...?
Any pointers would be appreciated!
Jason
