<DELQA is not 68k, The DEUNA is. The DELQA is a cost reduced version
<(less buggy too) of the DEQNA and is largely logically the same as the
<DEQNA.
Memory parity exception... Eat foot time.
DELQA M7516 is 68k and lance chip... had to pull mine to check. The M7504
however I am correct as I pulled one down from the shelf before dining on
foot. Oh and the reson I forgot it's 68k, was the DELQA is far more
reliable! that and I only open the BA123 one a year to check the fans and
clean dust. It just don't break. ;)
Allison
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA19969
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:36:31 +1100 (EST)
>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Fri Feb 19 12:36:11 1999
Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (trailing-edge.wdn.com [198.232.144.27])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA19961
for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.cs.adfa.OZ.AU>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:36:21 +1100 (EST)
Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.cs.adfa.OZ.AU;
Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:36:11 -0500
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:36:11 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.cs.adfa.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <990218213611.202000b8(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
><The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete
><redesign and used a 68000 processor.
>The DELQA was not 68000.
Hate to turn this into a "no it isn't, yet it is" sequence, but all
my DELQA's have prominent 68000's on 'em.
> The board was far to small for that
No, it isn't. The 68000 is the quad pack, and is smaller than either
of the two custom gate arrays that does the Q-bus handshaking.
Tim.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20047
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:07:20 +1100 (EST)
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Fri Feb 19 13:06:14 1999
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20040
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:07:11 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost)
by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA02230;
Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:06:14 +1100 (EST)
(envelope-from wkt)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199902190306.OAA02230(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
In-Reply-To: <006401be5baa$06ce3da0$33d1b7c7@eric-edwards> from Eric Edwards at "Feb 18, 1999 8:48:59 pm"
To: eekg(a)ix.netcom.com (Eric Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:06:14 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
In article by Eric Edwards:
> I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but you can build a working 2.9
> kernel (sans network) from the sources by just commenting out the references
> to the networking include files. I think there is an offending reference in
> syslocal.c also.
>
> Eric Edwards
> eekg(a)ix.netcom.com
> mag(a)csh.rit.edu
What is happening is that `make depend' invokes a script which finds
#includes in the source code, and builds a make dependency. However,
it's not very intelligent, and doesn't ignore:
#ifdef INET
#include <stuff>
when INET isn't defined. :-) This bites on several C files.
You just have to hand-prune the Makefile after make depend :-)
This is 2.9BSD, BTW, ignore if you're not using it.
Ciao!
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21635
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:20:30 +1100 (EST)
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Fri Feb 19 20:19:31 1999
Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026@Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21630
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:20:14 +1100 (EST)
Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost)
by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26451;
Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:19:33 +0100
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:19:31 +0100 (MET)
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
In-Reply-To: <199902190157.AA29020(a)world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.990219111730.26158A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote:
> <You obviously knows more about this than I do. :-)
> <However, as I said, atleast the DELQA have an M68K...
> <And the DEQNA is old, yes...
>
> DELQA is not 68k, The DEUNA is. The DELQA is a cost reduced version
> (less buggy too) of the DEQNA and is largely logically the same as the
> DEQNA.
Really? I have a DELQA sitting right in front of me, and when I look at
it, the large chip definitely says M68000. What could that be then?
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21652
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:23:04 +1100 (EST)
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Fri Feb 19 20:22:35 1999
Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026@Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21647
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:22:50 +1100 (EST)
Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost)
by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA26532;
Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:37 +0100
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:35 +0100 (MET)
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
In-Reply-To: <199902190214.AA14211(a)world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.990219112030.26158B-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote:
> <The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete
> <redesign and used a 68000 processor.
>
> The DELQA was not 68000. The board was far to small for that and had to be
> Qbus dual width and compatable with DEQNA. I have a few of them in my vaxen
> too. The Unibus versions DEUNA and the later DELUA were 68k and very good.
Hate to disagree with you, Alison. The the DELQA really is 68000, take a
peek inside yourself. It is a dual-width too...
And the DEUNA is T-11, while the DELUA is 68000.
I have never bothered plugging in any DEUNAs myself, since DELUAs are
pretty common, and they atleast are pretty good. Never had any problems
with any of them.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
<I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong, just that I was.
Not an argument, just posting to the group what went private by error.
<Never looked carefully at RQDX?, but the DELQA uses an M68K, that much I
<*do* know. (As do the DELUA)
Having two Qbus VAXen and several Qbus PDP-11s it's old turf. Also I worked
for DEC Engineering. that and I've done a lot of hardware level work on my
systems (repaired dead boards) so the designs are more familair.
<You obviously knows more about this than I do. :-)
<However, as I said, atleast the DELQA have an M68K...
<And the DEQNA is old, yes...
DELQA is not 68k, The DEUNA is. The DELQA is a cost reduced version
(less buggy too) of the DEQNA and is largely logically the same as the
DEQNA.
<> The DEUNA is quite different.
<
<Obviously. But it is also pretty old. Not as buggy though, which should
<have been a clue. :-)
Also The DELUA.
Allison
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19690
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:59:39 +1100 (EST)
>From "Eric Edwards" <eekg(a)ix.netcom.com> Fri Feb 19 11:48:59 1999
Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19683
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:59:27 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from smap@localhost)
by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4)
id TAA22942; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:58:39 -0600 (CST)
Received: from roc-ny1-19.ix.netcom.com(199.183.209.51) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3)
id rma022871; Thu Feb 18 19:58:23 1999
Message-ID: <006401be5baa$06ce3da0$33d1b7c7@eric-edwards>
From: "Eric Edwards" <eekg(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: "maximum entropy" <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>,
<pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:48:59 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but you can build a working 2.9
kernel (sans network) from the sources by just commenting out the references
to the networking include files. I think there is an offending reference in
syslocal.c also.
Eric Edwards
eekg(a)ix.netcom.com
mag(a)csh.rit.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:36 PM
Subject: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
>"make unix" failed:
>Make: Don't know how to make /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. Stop.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA19762
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:14:46 +1100 (EST)
>From maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com> Tue Feb 16 23:36:00 1999
Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19757
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:14:38 +1100 (EST)
Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0)
id VAA07685; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:14:33 -0500 (EST)
Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0)
id AA14211; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:14:32 -0500
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:14:32 -0500
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Message-Id: <199902190214.AA14211(a)world.std.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: DEQNA (was was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
<The DEQNA uses a Intel 8751 (an EPROM version of 8051 family). I suspect th
<it may deal with the programming protocol and the ring buffers. The
<chip with the F (with bars top and bottom of the letter) is probably
<Fujitsu.
Correct on both cases.
<These boards had a fairly bad reputation for lockups and dropped packets.
<There was a 20+ wire ECO along with a PAL chip (with 8 of the pins cut off
<soldered on top of another chip.
Actually there were revs A->n and each rev had a step. The last one was
N-11... it was marginal. Good one tended to be good and the bad were PITA.
Also they tended to fail far often than MTBF predictions.
<The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete
<redesign and used a 68000 processor.
The DELQA was not 68000. The board was far to small for that and had to be
Qbus dual width and compatable with DEQNA. I have a few of them in my vaxen
too. The Unibus versions DEUNA and the later DELUA were 68k and very good.
They were partly the reason why 730s and 750s were used for routers long
after they were replaced for other tasks.
Allison
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA19811
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:23:12 +1100 (EST)
| Just for the sake of being picky... the DEQNA is based on an Intel
| microcontroller chip (something 8085-ish, I think). The ethernet chipset
| seems to be Fairchild (it's certainly got a big F on it.)
|
The DEQNA uses a Intel 8751 (an EPROM version of 8051 family). I suspect that
it may deal with the programming protocol and the ring buffers. The
chip with the F (with bars top and bottom of the letter) is probably
Fujitsu.
These boards had a fairly bad reputation for lockups and dropped packets.
There was a 20+ wire ECO along with a PAL chip (with 8 of the pins cut off)
soldered on top of another chip.
The replacement ethernet controller was the DELQA, which was a complete
redesign and used a 68000 processor.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19489
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:41:28 +1100 (EST)
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Fri Feb 19 10:41:03 1999
Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026@Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19484
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:41:18 +1100 (EST)
Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost)
by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05467;
Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:41:06 +0100
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:41:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
In-Reply-To: <199902190022.AA25325(a)world.std.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.990219013735.1502E-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Hi, Alison.
> <You might not be totally out. I also thought the DEQNA was T-11 based,
> <since the DEUNA is. :-)
>
> I have a DEQNA in front of me. There is a micro and that is a 8751 8bitter.
> The big chip is a LSI ASIC that is a linked list DMA controller. No t-11.
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong, just that I was.
> The RQDXn(n={1,2,3} uses a t-11. The DELQA also does not use a T-11.
Never looked carefully at RQDX?, but the DELQA uses an M68K, that much I
*do* know. (As do the DELUA)
> Both use lots of logic in PALs and ASICs to perform several state machines
> needed for eithenet. At the time of development there were few complete
> and fast enough chipsets for eithernet. The DEQNA is mid 80s design and
> quite old.
You obviously knows more about this than I do. :-)
However, as I said, atleast the DELQA have an M68K...
And the DEQNA is old, yes...
> The DEUNA is quite different.
Obviously. But it is also pretty old. Not as buggy though, which should
have been a clue. :-)
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19674
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:57:56 +1100 (EST)
<> I'm going to give up as I seem to remember nothing anymore... sigh.
<> Allison also sent e-mail saying the DEQNA is not T-11 based. I guess
<> I'm thinking of an RQDX3. I've had no place to unpack my old iron in
<> over three years and certainly miss being able to pick up the part in
<> question before foaming at the mouth spouting nonsense. Many apologies
<> for suggesting such major inaccuracies. -- Ken
<>
<> P.S. Allison describe the DEQNA as a state-driven device with PALs
<> (I think) and that "big F" may the the gate array also mentioned.
<
<You might not be totally out. I also thought the DEQNA was T-11 based,
<since the DEUNA is. :-)
I have a DEQNA in front of me. There is a micro and that is a 8751 8bitter.
The big chip is a LSI ASIC that is a linked list DMA controller. No t-11.
The RQDXn(n={1,2,3} uses a t-11. The DELQA also does not use a T-11.
Both use lots of logic in PALs and ASICs to perform several state machines
needed for eithenet. At the time of development there were few complete
and fast enough chipsets for eithernet. The DEQNA is mid 80s design and
quite old.
The DEUNA is quite different.
Allison
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19476
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:40:24 +1100 (EST)
My local computer junk store has a VaxMate for sale. I'm not sure of the
model -- It has a DB-25 serial port, 10-base-2 ethernet, and a phone-jack
like printer port on the back, as well as an internal ST-225 hard drive
and a 5.25 inch floppy drive.
Anyway, when I turn it on it tries to boot up -- the graphical slider
thing on the screen gets about 90% of the way across and it displays the
number 83, which I assume is an eeror code since the number changes if you
boot it up with no keyboard. Anyone know what the 83 means or where I can
get a list of VaxMate error codes? Also, how intelligent is this machine
compared to a terminal? Will it actually run a Vax operating system or
does it need a server?
--------------------------------------------------------
"...color flashing thunder crashing dynamite machine..."
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19267
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:25:25 +1100 (EST)
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Fri Feb 19 09:24:43 1999
Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026@Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19259
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:25:14 +1100 (EST)
Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost)
by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA02756;
Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:24:44 +0100
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:24:43 +0100 (MET)
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
cc: James Lothian <simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
In-Reply-To: <199902181846.NAA05766(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.990219002351.1502D-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Ken Wellsch wrote:
> I'm going to give up as I seem to remember nothing anymore... sigh.
> Allison also sent e-mail saying the DEQNA is not T-11 based. I guess
> I'm thinking of an RQDX3. I've had no place to unpack my old iron in
> over three years and certainly miss being able to pick up the part in
> question before foaming at the mouth spouting nonsense. Many apologies
> for suggesting such major inaccuracies. -- Ken
>
> P.S. Allison describe the DEQNA as a state-driven device with PALs
> (I think) and that "big F" may the the gate array also mentioned.
You might not be totally out. I also thought the DEQNA was T-11 based,
since the DEUNA is. :-)
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19430
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:47 +1100 (EST)
<As already mentioned in previous messages, I'm working on getting
<2.9BSD onto a Pro 350. I'm using 2.9BSD as a starting point because
<it claims to support machines without split i/d. The 350 uses the
<F-11 chipset, which I have read does not support split i/d.
The F11 does not do I&D split but does have user/system.
<I would prefer to use 2.11BSD because I understand it's still actively
<used, and not as buggy as 2.9. But everything I've read about 2.11BSD
<says that it needs split i/d to run. Can anyone give me more detail
<about this? Was support for machines without split i/d removed from
<the kernel, or is it just that some of the programs are too big to fit
<in a single 64k segment?
It's my understanding that 2.11 will run on F11 systems (pro350 and 11/23)
if properly configured but the only binaries loose are for split I&D.
So if properly configured you can get 2.11 to utilize the user/system
spaces.
Allison
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA15404
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:32:52 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Feb 18 11:25:53 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15399
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:32:38 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA05895
for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:25:53 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:25:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199902180125.RAA05895(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: 2.11BSD, non-split i/d issues
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Hi -
> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
> The F11 does not do I&D split but does have user/system.
Correct. Some systems also have an 18bit only MMU which restricts
memory to 248kb max (others have a 22bit MMU and can physically
have more memory).
> It's my understanding that 2.11 will run on F11 systems (pro350 and 11/23)
> if properly configured but the only binaries loose are for split I&D.
Not likely. The kernel won't fit in 48kb that I know of. And there
will be no networking support since that requires supervisor mode
which non-split I/D systems don't have.
> So if properly configured you can get 2.11 to utilize the user/system spaces.
The skeleton of a Makefile for non-split a kernel exists but it
will take much work (it is essentially just a list of file that may
or may not be 100% current) to kick into shape. Also, remember that
programs like 'csh', 'vi' and so on are not only split I/D but
overlaid - they will not run on a non-split machine.
Steven Schultz
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA15443
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:44:04 +1100 (EST)
>From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Thu Feb 18 11:43:27 1999
Received: from math.uwaterloo.ca (kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.216.42])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15438
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:43:48 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from kcwellsc@localhost)
by math.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01509;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:43:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199902180143.UAA01509(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
To: djenner(a)halcyon.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:43:27 -0500 (EST)
Cc: entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <36CAEA1F.D5D7C838(a)halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Feb 17, 99 08:11:12 am
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility (Alumni)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
| I don't have any docs on the DECNA, but they must exist. It's
| probably pretty close to the DEQNA.
The DECNA uses one of the earlier Intel network chips. It lives
on the CTI bus, a bus like no other. I believe the DEQNA is T-11
based and lives on the vastly better known Q-bus... -- Ken
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA18371
for pups-liszt; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 05:47:10 +1100 (EST)
>From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Fri Feb 19 04:46:35 1999
Received: from math.uwaterloo.ca (kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.216.42])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA18366
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 05:46:55 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from kcwellsc@localhost)
by math.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05766;
Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:46:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199902181846.NAA05766(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
To: simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk (James Lothian)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:46:35 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <01BE5B64.56247680@SONAR> from "James Lothian" at Feb 18, 99 01:14:51 pm
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility (Alumni)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
I'm going to give up as I seem to remember nothing anymore... sigh.
Allison also sent e-mail saying the DEQNA is not T-11 based. I guess
I'm thinking of an RQDX3. I've had no place to unpack my old iron in
over three years and certainly miss being able to pick up the part in
question before foaming at the mouth spouting nonsense. Many apologies
for suggesting such major inaccuracies. -- Ken
P.S. Allison describe the DEQNA as a state-driven device with PALs
(I think) and that "big F" may the the gate array also mentioned.
| From simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 18 12:27:23 1999
|
| Just for the sake of being picky... the DEQNA is based on an Intel
| microcontroller chip (something 8085-ish, I think). The ethernet chipset
| seems to be Fairchild (it's certainly got a big F on it.)
|
| James
<Venix/Pro is freely available on the Internet at ftp.update.uu.se,
<but Pro/Venix seems to be a little harder to find. Pro/Venix is
<much to be preferred because you can reconfigure the kernel (in
<binary) to include different drivers, etc.
The UU.SE and gatway.dec.com version of it I ahve running on my PRO-350
for the last year or more.
I'd like to have SLIP/PPP running on it or even be able to tweek it.
< 1) Could this be a PUPS addition, if a good copy be found?
Oh hand I'd say yes.
Allison
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15035
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:32:11 +1100 (EST)
In article by David C. Jenner:
> It seems to me that Pro/Venix is a potential candidate for the PUPS
> archive, the snag being DEC/Compaq residual interests in it. PUPS
> covers the AT&T part, VenturCom has "given away" their part, and
> DEC/Compaq is all that's left.
>
> So:
> 1) Could this be a PUPS addition, if a good copy be found?
> 2) If someone has a copy, but worries about the DEC/Compaq
> aspects, can a good copy of the disks I have be acquired?
> (Anyone in this category might want to respond directly
> to me instead of posting to the mailing lists.) After
> all a PUPS licensee is 99.999% covered, and DEC/Compaq
> objections are probably to worry about the AT&T part,
> which the Ancient Unix license covers...
>
> Dave
If we could get DEC/Compaq to allow access to Pro/Venix by UNIX source
license holders, then yes I would certainly add it to the Archive. If
there's no source code, and SCO are happy, then it could go up for anon ftp.
Cheers,
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA14692
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:21:58 +1100 (EST)
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Feb 18 09:18:40 1999
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA14687
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:21:50 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost)
by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA18103
for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:23:55 +1100 (EST)
(envelope-from wkt)
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA14652
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:16:35 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost)
by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA18083
for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:18:40 +1100 (EST)
(envelope-from wkt)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199902172318.KAA18083(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Help with regs on Pro serial ports
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:18:40 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
I'm trying to help get the kernel for the version of 2.9BSD ported to the
Pro-350. The patches supplied by Rick Macklem are slightly incomplete, e.g
there is no config shell script which knows about the new device drivers etc.
Anyway, one vital missing file is pcreg.h, which holds the structure
describing the registers of the serial ports on the Pro-350. By perusing
the file dev/pc.c, I've worked out that the struct looks something like:
struct pcdevice {
??? baud;
??? cdb;
??? csa;
??? csb;
??? csr;
??? dbuf;
??? mc0;
??? mc1;
??? mode;
??? stat;
}
where the fields are not in the correct order, and I have no idea what
C type each is. If anybody can help recreate this file, could they
email me?!
I've included below the C comments at the top of dev/pc.c.
If anybody has Rick Macklem's email address, could they pass that on too?
I will email him and see if he's got a more complete set of patches somewhere.
Many thanks in advance,
Warren
/*
* This driver handles the two serial ports on the back of the
* pro3xx system unit. Although not software compatible, they
* are handled as minor device 0 & 1 respectively, for the printer
* and communication port. Modem control is included but no sync
* serial support for the com. port.
* NOTE: The DSR line in the printer port is used for carrier
* detect so terminals or modems should be cabled accordingly.
* Local terminal cables should jumper DTR-CDT so that the carrier
* will appear to be up or PC_SOFTCAR defined and devs or'd with 0200.
* NOTE2: The interrupt service routines are as follows:
* plrint - printer port receive
* plxint - printer port transmit
* cmintr - communication port com. interrupt
* Modem transition interrupts are NOT used.
*/
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15025
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:31:53 +1100 (EST)
I'm trying to compile a 2.9BSD kernel using the distribution from the
pups archive.
"make unix" failed:
Make: Don't know how to make /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. Stop.
I looked in the usr.tar from the distribution, and I don't see mbuf.h
anywhere.
Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this file?
Cheers,
entropy
--
entropy -- it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11005
for pups-liszt; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:17:41 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Feb 17 15:15:02 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11000
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:17:28 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA23159
for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:15:02 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:15:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199902170515.VAA23159(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Hi -
> I'm trying to compile a 2.9BSD kernel using the distribution from the
> pups archive.
>
> "make unix" failed:
> Make: Don't know how to make /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. Stop.
>
> I looked in the usr.tar from the distribution, and I don't see mbuf.h
> anywhere.
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this file?
That's not _all_ your missing ;-)
Unless you have the 1985 Seismo (or Harvard - depends where you
got the tape from) update tape to 2.9 the networking code won't
compile much less run. Been there, done that. It was a fun couple
weeks coming to the realization that the networking code hadn't
been fully integrated and compiled in 2.9
I believe the 2.9-Seismo update is in the PUPS archive (should be
on the CD but my memory isn't ECC these days ;-)). It's a fairly
painful upgrade process because it changes the a.out header format
for overlaid processes (goes from 7 to 15 overlays). If you're not
real careful you'll have (as I did ;-)) a real mess: can't finish
the upgrade because the old kernel doesn't support the new overlaid
processes but you can't build a new kernel because doing so needs
those processes. Something like that. It was "interesting" ;)
Steven Schultz
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11030
for pups-liszt; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:24:28 +1100 (EST)
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 17 15:26:09 1999
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11024
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:24:18 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost)
by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA14818;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:26:09 +1100 (EST)
(envelope-from wkt)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199902170526.QAA14818(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
In-Reply-To: <199902170515.VAA23159(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Feb 16, 1999 9:15: 2 pm"
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:26:09 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> Hi -
>
> > I'm trying to compile a 2.9BSD kernel using the distribution from the
> > pups archive.
> > Make: Don't know how to make /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. Stop.
> > Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this file?
>
> That's not _all_ your missing ;-)
>
> Unless you have the 1985 Seismo (or Harvard - depends where you
> got the tape from) update tape to 2.9 the networking code won't
> compile much less run. Been there, done that. It was a fun couple
> weeks coming to the realization that the networking code hadn't
> been fully integrated and compiled in 2.9
>
> I believe the 2.9-Seismo update is in the PUPS archive (should be
> on the CD but my memory isn't ECC these days ;-)). It's a fairly
> painful upgrade process because it changes the a.out header format
> for overlaid processes (goes from 7 to 15 overlays). If you're not
> real careful you'll have (as I did ;-)) a real mess: can't finish
> the upgrade because the old kernel doesn't support the new overlaid
> processes but you can't build a new kernel because doing so needs
> those processes. Something like that. It was "interesting" ;)
>
> Steven Schultz
Don't worry, Nicholas is trying to patch 2.9 to get it to run on a Pro.
I'm sure he will keep us informed :-)
'Night!
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11134
for pups-liszt; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:01:58 +1100 (EST)
>From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Wed Feb 17 16:00:45 1999
Received: from smtp10.nwnexus.com (smtp10.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.53])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11128
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:01:40 +1100 (EST)
Received: from halcyon.com (66-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net [206.63.251.66])
by smtp10.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05965;
Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:01:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <36CA5B0D.8A2B2629(a)halcyon.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:00:45 -0800
From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com>
Reply-To: djenner(a)halcyon.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
CC: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>,
Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>,
PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
References: <199902170526.QAA14818(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Speaking of the Pro, I have one and have been trying to get Venix
to run on it. The rub is, there are two versions: one directly from
VenturCom (Venix/Pro) and one licensed through DEC (Pro/Venix).
Venix/Pro is freely available on the Internet at ftp.update.uu.se,
but Pro/Venix seems to be a little harder to find. Pro/Venix is
much to be preferred because you can reconfigure the kernel (in
binary) to include different drivers, etc.
I've been able to acquire all the documentation and all (almost) the
disks for Pro/Venix 2.0. A couple of the disks are apparently
unusable or missing in the set I have.
It seems to me that Pro/Venix is a potential candidate for the PUPS
archive, the snag being DEC/Compaq residual interests in it. PUPS
covers the AT&T part, VenturCom has "given away" their part, and
DEC/Compaq is all that's left.
So:
1) Could this be a PUPS addition, if a good copy be found?
2) If someone has a copy, but worries about the DEC/Compaq
aspects, can a good copy of the disks I have be acquired?
(Anyone in this category might want to respond directly
to me instead of posting to the mailing lists.) After
all a PUPS licensee is 99.999% covered, and DEC/Compaq
objections are probably to worry about the AT&T part,
which the Ancient Unix license covers...
Actually, I'm amazed I've gotten as far as I have with this, because
I've been pretty passive about finding it. It's only taken 2 years
so far.
Dave
Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> > Hi -
> >
> > > I'm trying to compile a 2.9BSD kernel using the distribution from the
> > > pups archive.
> > > Make: Don't know how to make /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. Stop.
> > > Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this file?
> >
> > That's not _all_ your missing ;-)
> >
> > Unless you have the 1985 Seismo (or Harvard - depends where you
> > got the tape from) update tape to 2.9 the networking code won't
> > compile much less run. Been there, done that. It was a fun couple
> > weeks coming to the realization that the networking code hadn't
> > been fully integrated and compiled in 2.9
> >
> > I believe the 2.9-Seismo update is in the PUPS archive (should be
> > on the CD but my memory isn't ECC these days ;-)). It's a fairly
> > painful upgrade process because it changes the a.out header format
> > for overlaid processes (goes from 7 to 15 overlays). If you're not
> > real careful you'll have (as I did ;-)) a real mess: can't finish
> > the upgrade because the old kernel doesn't support the new overlaid
> > processes but you can't build a new kernel because doing so needs
> > those processes. Something like that. It was "interesting" ;)
> >
> > Steven Schultz
>
> Don't worry, Nicholas is trying to patch 2.9 to get it to run on a Pro.
> I'm sure he will keep us informed :-)
>
> 'Night!
>
> Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11133
for pups-liszt; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:01:50 +1100 (EST)
>From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Wed Feb 17 16:00:45 1999
Received: from smtp10.nwnexus.com (smtp10.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.53])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11122
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:01:34 +1100 (EST)
Received: from halcyon.com (66-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net [206.63.251.66])
by smtp10.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05965;
Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:01:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <36CA5B0D.8A2B2629(a)halcyon.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:00:45 -0800
From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com>
Reply-To: djenner(a)halcyon.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
CC: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>,
Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>,
PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
References: <199902170526.QAA14818(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Speaking of the Pro, I have one and have been trying to get Venix
to run on it. The rub is, there are two versions: one directly from
VenturCom (Venix/Pro) and one licensed through DEC (Pro/Venix).
Venix/Pro is freely available on the Internet at ftp.update.uu.se,
but Pro/Venix seems to be a little harder to find. Pro/Venix is
much to be preferred because you can reconfigure the kernel (in
binary) to include different drivers, etc.
I've been able to acquire all the documentation and all (almost) the
disks for Pro/Venix 2.0. A couple of the disks are apparently
unusable or missing in the set I have.
It seems to me that Pro/Venix is a potential candidate for the PUPS
archive, the snag being DEC/Compaq residual interests in it. PUPS
covers the AT&T part, VenturCom has "given away" their part, and
DEC/Compaq is all that's left.
So:
1) Could this be a PUPS addition, if a good copy be found?
2) If someone has a copy, but worries about the DEC/Compaq
aspects, can a good copy of the disks I have be acquired?
(Anyone in this category might want to respond directly
to me instead of posting to the mailing lists.) After
all a PUPS licensee is 99.999% covered, and DEC/Compaq
objections are probably to worry about the AT&T part,
which the Ancient Unix license covers...
Actually, I'm amazed I've gotten as far as I have with this, because
I've been pretty passive about finding it. It's only taken 2 years
so far.
Dave
Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> > Hi -
> >
> > > I'm trying to compile a 2.9BSD kernel using the distribution from the
> > > pups archive.
> > > Make: Don't know how to make /usr/include/sys/mbuf.h. Stop.
> > > Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this file?
> >
> > That's not _all_ your missing ;-)
> >
> > Unless you have the 1985 Seismo (or Harvard - depends where you
> > got the tape from) update tape to 2.9 the networking code won't
> > compile much less run. Been there, done that. It was a fun couple
> > weeks coming to the realization that the networking code hadn't
> > been fully integrated and compiled in 2.9
> >
> > I believe the 2.9-Seismo update is in the PUPS archive (should be
> > on the CD but my memory isn't ECC these days ;-)). It's a fairly
> > painful upgrade process because it changes the a.out header format
> > for overlaid processes (goes from 7 to 15 overlays). If you're not
> > real careful you'll have (as I did ;-)) a real mess: can't finish
> > the upgrade because the old kernel doesn't support the new overlaid
> > processes but you can't build a new kernel because doing so needs
> > those processes. Something like that. It was "interesting" ;)
> >
> > Steven Schultz
>
> Don't worry, Nicholas is trying to patch 2.9 to get it to run on a Pro.
> I'm sure he will keep us informed :-)
>
> 'Night!
>
> Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA11461
for pups-liszt; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:23:34 +1100 (EST)
>From maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com> Wed Feb 17 18:22:50 1999
Received: from zippy.bernstein.com (entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com [206.20.83.202])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11456
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:23:21 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from entropy@localhost)
by zippy.bernstein.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA24861;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:22:50 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:22:50 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199902170822.DAA24861(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
To: djenner(a)halcyon.com
CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-reply-to: <36CA5B0D.8A2B2629(a)halcyon.com> (djenner(a)halcyon.com)
Subject: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
>Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:00:45 -0800
>From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com>
>
>Speaking of the Pro, I have one and have been trying to get Venix
>to run on it. The rub is, there are two versions: one directly from
>VenturCom (Venix/Pro) and one licensed through DEC (Pro/Venix).
Interesting...I know there's a Venix 1.0 and a Venix 2.0. I thought
they were both from Venturcom, with 1.0 being for the Pro-350 and 2.0
for the Pro-380. I never heard of a distinction between Venix/Pro
vs. Pro/Venix. Then again, I got into this game fairly late...I
bought my used Pro-350 around 1993 for US$100, with Venix 1.0 already
installed (also with original install media and docs).
>Venix/Pro is freely available on the Internet at ftp.update.uu.se,
>but Pro/Venix seems to be a little harder to find. Pro/Venix is
>much to be preferred because you can reconfigure the kernel (in
>binary) to include different drivers, etc.
>
>I've been able to acquire all the documentation and all (almost) the
>disks for Pro/Venix 2.0. A couple of the disks are apparently
>unusable or missing in the set I have.
I have the following archives of Venix-related stuff that I snagged
from the net a few years back. If you think any of them might contain
what you're looking for, let me know and I'll give more detail about
their contents.
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 3833 Oct 17 1997 README
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 532 Oct 17 1997 README.VAX
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 30819 Oct 17 1997 RX50.notes
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 2530759 Oct 17 1997 Venix1.tar.Z
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 2503931 Oct 17 1997 Venix2.tar.Z
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 15817 Oct 17 1997 cathang.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 332543 Oct 17 1997 mopimage.tar.Z
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 443 Oct 17 1997 nbsdrx50.readme
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 897510 Oct 17 1997 nbsdrx50.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 155648 Oct 17 1997 pppd
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 193536 Oct 17 1997 pr0801eng.sys
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 14153 Oct 17 1997 raind112.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 6621 Oct 17 1997 rx50.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 81152 Oct 17 1997 teledisk.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 61440 Oct 17 1997 venix.tar
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 116 Oct 17 1997 venix1.readme
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 1119490 Oct 17 1997 venix1s.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 1095824 Oct 17 1997 venix1u.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 424 Oct 17 1997 venix2.readme
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 1058970 Oct 17 1997 venix2s.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 1145720 Oct 17 1997 venix2u.zip
-rw-r--r-- 1 entropy user 332362 Oct 17 1997 vnx2u2u5.zip
--
entropy -- it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA11492
for pups-liszt; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:33:00 +1100 (EST)
>From maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com> Wed Feb 17 18:32:05 1999
Received: from zippy.bernstein.com (entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com [206.20.83.202])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11487
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:32:47 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from entropy@localhost)
by zippy.bernstein.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA24878;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:32:05 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:32:05 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199902170832.DAA24878(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
In-reply-to: <199902170515.VAA23159(a)moe.2bsd.com> (sms(a)moe.2bsd.com)
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
>Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:15:02 -0800 (PST)
>From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
>
> I believe the 2.9-Seismo update is in the PUPS archive (should be
> on the CD but my memory isn't ECC these days ;-)). It's a fairly
> painful upgrade process because it changes the a.out header format
> for overlaid processes (goes from 7 to 15 overlays). If you're not
> real careful you'll have (as I did ;-)) a real mess: can't finish
> the upgrade because the old kernel doesn't support the new overlaid
> processes but you can't build a new kernel because doing so needs
> those processes. Something like that. It was "interesting" ;)
Sounds like fun. Any hints on the correct upgrade path to avoid this
lossage?
Better yet, would you be willing and able to upload a disk image or
tar file of an upgraded system to the PUPS archive (or directly to me
if it's not of general interest), so I could use that as a starting
point?
Cheers,
entropy
--
entropy -- it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA11533
for pups-liszt; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:43:19 +1100 (EST)
>From maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com> Wed Feb 17 18:42:40 1999
Received: from zippy.bernstein.com (entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com [206.20.83.202])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11527
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:43:06 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from entropy@localhost)
by zippy.bernstein.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA24887;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:42:40 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:42:40 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199902170842.DAA24887(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: 2.11BSD, non-split i/d issues
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
As already mentioned in previous messages, I'm working on getting
2.9BSD onto a Pro 350. I'm using 2.9BSD as a starting point because
it claims to support machines without split i/d. The 350 uses the
F-11 chipset, which I have read does not support split i/d.
I would prefer to use 2.11BSD because I understand it's still actively
used, and not as buggy as 2.9. But everything I've read about 2.11BSD
says that it needs split i/d to run. Can anyone give me more detail
about this? Was support for machines without split i/d removed from
the kernel, or is it just that some of the programs are too big to fit
in a single 64k segment?
--
entropy -- it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA12587
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:36:09 +1100 (EST)
>From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Thu Feb 18 00:35:30 1999
Received: from math.uwaterloo.ca (kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.216.42])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA12582
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:35:58 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from kcwellsc@localhost)
by math.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA12462;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:35:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199902171435.JAA12462(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
To: entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com (maximum entropy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:35:30 -0500 (EST)
Cc: djenner(a)halcyon.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199902170822.DAA24861(a)zippy.bernstein.com> from "maximum entropy" at Feb 17, 99 03:22:50 am
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility (Alumni)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
| Interesting...I know there's a Venix 1.0 and a Venix 2.0. I thought
| they were both from Venturcom, with 1.0 being for the Pro-350 and 2.0
| for the Pro-380. I never heard of a distinction between Venix/Pro
| vs. Pro/Venix. Then again, I got into this game fairly late...I
| bought my used Pro-350 around 1993 for US$100, with Venix 1.0 already
| installed (also with original install media and docs).
My time playing with Pro's faded out before Venix 2 was available (free)
for me to try. I've played a fair bit with Venix 1.1 on both Pro 350's
and Pro 380's. The Venix 1 series I feel is basically V6 derived while
I understood the Venix 2 series was derived from Sys III.
About a year ago Rick Macklem that did a port to the Pro series mailed
me his "Pro stuff" which included a tape and floppies. I've forgotten
what all is in that stash, but taking a peek at some old mail he mentions:
> The stuff I did went out on a Usenix distribution tape in about 1983/84
> and had to be merged into a 2.9BSD distribution. I did generate floppy
> sets for a few people, because that was the only easy way to get it
> installed. (The first install here was actually done by downloading the
> kernel over the serial port talking to the PDP 11 prom (ODS?).)
I had thought his set of patches were in the PUPS archive. In fact I
see the patches under PUPS/Distributions/ucb/2.9-pro350.
-- Ken
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA12654
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:42:25 +1100 (EST)
>From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Thu Feb 18 00:42:05 1999
Received: from math.uwaterloo.ca (kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.216.42])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA12649
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:42:16 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from kcwellsc@localhost)
by math.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15916;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:42:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199902171442.JAA15916(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: 2.11BSD, non-split i/d issues
To: entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com (maximum entropy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:42:05 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199902170842.DAA24887(a)zippy.bernstein.com> from "maximum entropy" at Feb 17, 99 03:42:40 am
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility (Alumni)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
| I would prefer to use 2.11BSD because I understand it's still actively
| used, and not as buggy as 2.9. But everything I've read about 2.11BSD
| says that it needs split i/d to run. Can anyone give me more detail
| about this? Was support for machines without split i/d removed from
| the kernel, or is it just that some of the programs are too big to fit
| in a single 64k segment?
Have you been able to acquire the documentation for the DECNA card? I
think that is roughly what it is called. The Pro Ethernet card. A few
old timers like myself and Dan Lanciani talked years ago about running
things on a Pro and no-one seems to know much about this relatively
critical bit of documentation. Again referring to Rick Macklem's
correspondence (I believe I was asking him, again, about these docs):
> Well, the short answer is "I'm not sure what the answers are". At one
> point someone mentioned they were putting the Pro stuff into 2BSD, but
> I'm not sure if they actually did it. (The guys that used it the most
> had it running on a lab of Pro380s at Columbia U. (I think. It's the
> one right in NY city.)) His name was Charlie Kim (again, I think?) and
> did some stuff to it so that it worked reasonably well on a Pro380, but
> I have no idea how you might find him now. (It was a real dog on a Pro350
> because it didn't have separate I and D space.)
The rumors we were able to find all pointed to this place and person
WRT documentation for the ethernet card.
-- Ken
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA12725
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:12:16 +1100 (EST)
>From maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com> Thu Feb 18 01:11:36 1999
Received: from zippy.bernstein.com (entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com [206.20.83.202])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA12720
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:12:06 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from entropy@localhost)
by zippy.bernstein.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25176;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:11:36 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:11:36 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199902171511.KAA25176(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
To: kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca
CC: djenner(a)halcyon.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-reply-to: <199902171435.JAA12462(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> (message from Ken
Wellsch on Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:35:30 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
>From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
>Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:35:30 -0500 (EST)
>
>About a year ago Rick Macklem that did a port to the Pro series mailed
>me his "Pro stuff" which included a tape and floppies. I've forgotten
>what all is in that stash, but taking a peek at some old mail he mentions:
Would you be able to send images (rx50 teledisk, or plain dd dumps) of
these disks to me or to the archive?
>I had thought his set of patches were in the PUPS archive. In fact I
>see the patches under PUPS/Distributions/ucb/2.9-pro350.
Those files aren't 100% complete. Excerpt of a mail I sent last night
to Warren Toomey:
#The instructions in boot.doc are mangled.
#The patches included are reversed, and didn't apply cleanly to one of
#the files (/usr/src/net/sys/sys/machdep.c). Also, it looks like the
#guy that produced that set of changes forgot to include his
#modifications to /usr/src/sys/conf/config, but I managed to hack
#together something that might work.
Then there's the fact that the 2.9 distribution won't even compile,
and the 2.9 upgrade patches are a nightmare...
Maybe I'll just stick to venix :-)
Cheers,
entropy
--
entropy -- it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA12848
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:44:50 +1100 (EST)
>From maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com> Thu Feb 18 01:44:04 1999
Received: from zippy.bernstein.com (entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com [206.20.83.202])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA12843
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:44:40 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from entropy@localhost)
by zippy.bernstein.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25215;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:44:04 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:44:04 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199902171544.KAA25215(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
To: kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca
CC: djenner(a)halcyon.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-reply-to: <199902171435.JAA12462(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> (message from Ken
Wellsch on Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:35:30 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
>From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
>Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:35:30 -0500 (EST)
>
>About a year ago Rick Macklem that did a port to the Pro series mailed
>me his "Pro stuff" which included a tape and floppies. I've forgotten
>what all is in that stash, but taking a peek at some old mail he mentions:
Would you be able to send images (rx50 teledisk, or plain dd dumps) of
these disks to me or to the archive?
>I had thought his set of patches were in the PUPS archive. In fact I
>see the patches under PUPS/Distributions/ucb/2.9-pro350.
Those files aren't 100% complete. Excerpt of a mail I sent last night
to Warren Toomey:
#The instructions in boot.doc are mangled.d
#The patches included are reversed, and didn't apply cleanly to one of
#the files (/usr/src/net/sys/sys/machdep.c). Also, it looks like the
#guy that produced that set of changes forgot to include his
#modifications to /usr/src/sys/conf/config, but I managed to hack
#together something that might work.
Then there's the fact that the 2.9 distribution won't even compile,
and the 2.9 upgrade patches are a nightmare...
Maybe I'll just stick to venix :-)
Cheers,
entropy
--
entropy -- it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA12922
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:12:05 +1100 (EST)
>From maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com> Thu Feb 18 02:11:24 1999
Received: from zippy.bernstein.com (entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com [206.20.83.202])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA12917
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:11:54 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from entropy@localhost)
by zippy.bernstein.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25258;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:11:24 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:11:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199902171611.LAA25258(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
To: kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca
CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-reply-to: <199902171442.JAA15916(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> (message from Ken
Wellsch on Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:42:05 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: 2.11BSD, non-split i/d issues
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
>From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
>Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:42:05 -0500 (EST)
>
>Have you been able to acquire the documentation for the DECNA card? I
I haven't looked for it. The DECNA is optional, and my Pro doesn't
have it. All Pro's came with an AUI port, but without the card it
doesn't do anything.
--
entropy -- it's not just a good idea, it's the second law.
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA12934
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:12:18 +1100 (EST)
>From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Thu Feb 18 02:11:12 1999
Received: from smtp04.nwnexus.com (smtp04.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.52])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA12927
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:12:08 +1100 (EST)
Received: from halcyon.com (66-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net [206.63.251.66])
by smtp04.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21063;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:11:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <36CAEA1F.D5D7C838(a)halcyon.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:11:12 -0800
From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com>
Reply-To: djenner(a)halcyon.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
CC: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Venix (was Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h)
References: <199902171435.JAA12462(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
I haven't tried the 2.9 stuff at all on a Pro. I have had it
running on an 11/23+ (w/binary license) for 10 years. The
problem is the networking, as you have found.
Venix/Pro 1.1 and 2.0 run just fine on the Pro 380, and it's
pretty painless to install. I have distribution disks for
Pro/Venix 1.1, but the install disk has apparently been
overwritten with the 2.0 installation disk. And my distribution
for 2.0 is missing a couple of original disks; I have copies of
those disks, but they get read errors.
I guess the 2.9 stuff would be interesting if you got it to
work on the Pro, especially if you got networking to work.
I don't have any docs on the DECNA, but they must exist. It's
probably pretty close to the DEQNA.
Dave
Ken Wellsch wrote:
>
> | Interesting...I know there's a Venix 1.0 and a Venix 2.0. I thought
> | they were both from Venturcom, with 1.0 being for the Pro-350 and 2.0
> | for the Pro-380. I never heard of a distinction between Venix/Pro
> | vs. Pro/Venix. Then again, I got into this game fairly late...I
> | bought my used Pro-350 around 1993 for US$100, with Venix 1.0 already
> | installed (also with original install media and docs).
>
> My time playing with Pro's faded out before Venix 2 was available (free)
> for me to try. I've played a fair bit with Venix 1.1 on both Pro 350's
> and Pro 380's. The Venix 1 series I feel is basically V6 derived while
> I understood the Venix 2 series was derived from Sys III.
>
> About a year ago Rick Macklem that did a port to the Pro series mailed
> me his "Pro stuff" which included a tape and floppies. I've forgotten
> what all is in that stash, but taking a peek at some old mail he mentions:
>
> > The stuff I did went out on a Usenix distribution tape in about 1983/84
> > and had to be merged into a 2.9BSD distribution. I did generate floppy
> > sets for a few people, because that was the only easy way to get it
> > installed. (The first install here was actually done by downloading the
> > kernel over the serial port talking to the PDP 11 prom (ODS?).)
>
> I had thought his set of patches were in the PUPS archive. In fact I
> see the patches under PUPS/Distributions/ucb/2.9-pro350.
>
> -- Ken
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA12957
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:17:55 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Feb 18 02:15:01 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA12952
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:17:47 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id IAA02324;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:15:01 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:15:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199902171615.IAA02324(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
Subject: Re: 2.9BSD: mbuf.h
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Hi
> Sounds like fun. Any hints on the correct upgrade path to avoid this
> lossage?
Oh, it's not _completely_ irrecoverable and is "fun" in a perverse
way.
First go thru all of the executable directories (/bin, /usr/bin,...)
and identify all of the overlaid executables and save copies of them.
Shouldn't be too many but the important one is 'ex'/'vi'. A number
of programs rely on using 'ex' scripts to edit generated files (the
kernel makefiles are _good_ examples;)), and so on. Having an older
copy of 'ex'/'vi' is the main thing I remember as saving the day.
> Better yet, would you be willing and able to upload a disk image or
> tar file of an upgraded system to the PUPS archive (or directly to me
Oh, I have no 2.9 systems - this was all done 10 years ago. The
systems I run now use MSCP/TMSCP devices and 2.9 lacks support
for those.
Steve
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA13020
for pups-liszt; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:32:46 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Feb 18 02:32:00 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA13014
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:32:36 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id IAA02404;
Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:32:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199902171632.IAA02404(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: 2.11BSD, non-split i/d issues
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Hi -
> From: maximum entropy <entropy(a)zippy.bernstein.com>
> I would prefer to use 2.11BSD because I understand it's still actively
> used, and not as buggy as 2.9. But everything I've read about 2.11BSD
> says that it needs split i/d to run. Can anyone give me more detail
> about this? Was support for machines without split i/d removed from
> the kernel, or is it just that some of the programs are too big to fit
> in a single 64k segment?
Oh, support was NOT removed. Non-split executables (magic number
0407 and 0410) will still run.
The kernel will not fit - without split I/D it is impossible to
create a /unix image that fits within a single 64kb (actually 48kb
since the kernel stack takes 1 segment and the 'u' area takes
another) address space.
I actually went thru the exercise once (2.10 era) of creating a bare
bones kernel that would fit in - at least the linker said it would.
That was only done by ripping out lots of stuff - no networking, no
statistics gathering, almost no drivers, etc. Never 'ran' it though
since there seemed to be little point in such a stripped down system.
Even V7 was hard pressed to run on a non-split machine! In fact there
was a paper written about shoehorning V7 onto an 11/40 and the hoops
that needed to be jumped thru. Not sure but that document might be
in the /usr/doc tree of one of the PUPS Distributions hierarchy.
Steven
My new address is:
13444 Euclid Ave. Apt. 215
East Cleveland, OH 44112
USA
My new phone # is 216-761-3656 (voice mail not set up yet, will be done in a
couple of days).
I'm still not quite done with all move-related work, so it will be a few more
days before I catch up with my E-mail.
My hardware is laid out a lot better at the new place than at the old one, so
when I'm done hooking everything up, I'll have much better work conditions for
my Project. Also the new place is physically closer to the building where all
Cleveland ISPs are located, reducing the cost of leased lines and increasing
the probability of me getting one some day.
With the hardware taking up most of the space, I originally thought that my
apartment would look like Agent Mulder's, but it actually ended up being more
like Agent Scully's. Oh well, her place is pretty nice too, and so is mine now.
Just a reminder to all Quasijarus Project folks living in the USA, be sure to
watch the X-Files this evening. They'll finally tell us what really happened to
Mulder's sister, who is the cigarette-smoking man, and all the other cool
stuff.
Special Agent Michael Sokolov
TUHS 4BSD Coordinator
4.3BSD-* Maintainer
Quasijarus Project Principal Architect & Developer
Phone: 216-761-3656
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
TUHS WWW page: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/
Quasijarus WWW page: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/
