First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and
rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty
devices.
On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8
(c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or
similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? My system
has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as tty8. I'd like
to get the second interface up and running. I also have a DZ11, if
that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and works with
RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't remember
the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11).
Question is:
------------
What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and
what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for
support of a second DL11?
Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC
should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers?
Cheers once again,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All,
I am still bashing away at my v7 a.out simulator, available at
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz. I'm having a *$(&(#(@ of a time
getting it to work 100% correctly.
At the moment, I can compile 30 to 40% of the programs in /usr/src/cmd. It
seems that the assember isn't being simulated correctly. Nearly all the
other programs work fine.
Does anybody have any PDP-11 asm programs (preferably v7 Unix .s files)
that give the user mode a damn good flogging, and catch instructions and
addressing modes that are not working correctly :-)
Thanks all,
Warren
>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)esi.COM.AU> Tue Nov 21 21:49:00 1995
Received: from eram.esi.com.au (dave@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with ESMTP id WAA01901; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:46:42 +1100
Received: (from dave@localhost)
by eram.esi.com.au (8.6.12/ESI-HUB-2.0) id WAA10767; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:49:01 +1100
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:49:00 +1100 (EST)
From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)esi.COM.AU>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951121224148.10757A-100000(a)eram.esi.com.au>
X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius strip - see other side for instructions"
X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these.
> Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP,
> we can ask them for an answer.
Ah yes, the classic Catch-22...
"How do I do this?"
"You need a licence."
"How do I get a licence?"
"Nobody knows."
With apologies to Milo Minderbinder...
And in the meantime. those of us who can't quite lay our hands upon
that piece of paper will just have to wait until Something Can Be Done.
--
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU) | dave(a)esi.com.au | VK2KFU @ VK2DAA.NSW.AUS.OC | PGP 2.6
Opinions expressed are mine. | D8 15 71 F9 26 C8 63 40 5E 63 5C 65 FC A0 22 99
>From "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> Wed Nov 22 16:06:51 1995
Received: from mail.crl.com by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id RAA04567; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:12:03 +1100
Received: from crl12.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA21753
(5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>); Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:10:07 -0800
Received: by crl12.crl.com id AA02825
(5.65c/IDA-1.5 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:06:51 -0800
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:06:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951121214923.2266B-100000(a)crl12.crl.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greetings:
Woe is me.
I have been trying to resurrect Unix (BSD) on my venerable PDP-11/73.
It had an RL02, which has gone west.
It is running RT-11/TSX off an RD-54, and I would much like to run
BSD2.11 instead, for several reasons.
Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has
no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed
syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that"
-type errors, so I have given up.
This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could
build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I
need is either:
1. Someone who knows the secret to doing an addressable variable-
block-length transfer to a TMSCP device with RT-11; or
2. A bootable RL02 image of 2.11, wwhich would be a feat; or
3.A bootable RD5X image of same; or
4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape.
(Yes, I put eggs in my beer).
All leads appreciated. I *do* have surplus Q-bus hardware (except
for RL02 drives).
Cheers!
BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list?
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
* ( sysyphus(a)crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 *
* Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode *
*************************************************************************
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Wed Nov 22 17:04:20 1995
Received: from wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with ESMTP id SAA04683; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 18:05:23 +1100
Received: (from sms@localhost) by wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (8.6.10/8.6.12) id XAA12504; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:04:20 -0800
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:04:20 -0800
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199511220704.XAA12504(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, sysyphus(a)crl.com
Danny -
> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
>
> Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
> bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing.
> seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has
> no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed
> syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that"
Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:
cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512
Basically what you want to do is have two copies of the tapeboot
block followed immediately by the boot program written to tape
using 512 byte records. Perhaps catenating the data together into
1 temp file first would help and then write that file out all at
one time.
Once you have that data on tape you have a bootable TK50. The
other images (mkfs, restor, etc) can be put on separate tapes if
need be and loaded one at a time.
That will require some interpolation of the setup/installation
documents but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
> This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could
> build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I
Or TMSCP ;-(
> 4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape.
> (Yes, I put eggs in my beer).
Bletch (to eggs in beer) ;-)
TK50 tapes are excrutiatingly (sp) time consuming to write - I'm not
sure where the problem is (other than the TK50 being about as smart
and fast as a rock). Reading them isn't too bad, but to write a full
2.11 kit on TK50 took around 7 hours the last time I did it on a 11/73.
> BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list?
Drop a line to Warren Toomey (wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au)
Cheers and good luck.
Steven
>From "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> Thu Nov 23 11:17:39 1995
Received: from mail.crl.com by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id MAA06264; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 12:26:57 +1059
Received: from crl11.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA29097
(5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>); Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:25:08 -0800
Received: by crl11.crl.com id AA28493
(5.65c/IDA-1.5); Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:40 -0800
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199511220704.XAA12504(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951122170747.28165A-100000(a)crl11.crl.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> Danny -
>
> > From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
> >
> > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
> > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
>
> Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
> records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing.
------- snip ------
> Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:
>
> cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
> dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512
>
First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.
Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
TK-50 (under RT-11).
I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel-
to -reel magtape.
Anybody know where I can find one ? :=)
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
* ( sysyphus(a)crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 *
* Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode *
*************************************************************************
>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Thu Nov 23 17:55:16 1995
Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id TAA06791; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 19:10:56 +1059
Received: from post.demon.co.uk by relay-4.mail.demon.net id sg.ac28016;
23 Nov 95 8:09 GMT
Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk by relay-3.mail.demon.net id sg.aa25017;
23 Nov 95 8:07 GMT
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 07:55:16 GMT
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
Message-Id: <143(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
To: sysyphus(a)crl.com, "Steven M. Schultz"@falstaf.demon.co.uk
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Re: your mail
X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d
X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: falstaf.demon.co.uk [Thu, 23 Nov 95 8:07:33 GMT]
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Thu, 23 Nov 95 8:09:33 GMT]
> First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.
Agreed, they are excellent, Steven did a wonderful job of continuing and
enhancing the docs that were completed for 2.10. They originally enabled
me to do a complete install, never having done one for anything other than
RSX and with zero UNIX experience. SO again, well done Steven.
>
> Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
> TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
> which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
> TK-50 (under RT-11).
Can you not write to the TK50 using system calls?. What you need to do is to
write a utility that does "raw" byte by byte writes to the tape. I can't
believe that this can't be done. If this can be done then images could be
written to the tape exactly as they appear on a standard 2.11 distribution
which could help you out.
Failing that, where are you?. Could one of the people close by who have 2.11
cut you a TK50?.
Cheers
Robin
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robin Birch EMail robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> Thu Nov 23 18:25:13 1995
Received: from sunic.sunet.se by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with ESMTP id TAA06805; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 19:25:22 +1100
Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.8/2.03)
id JAA13839; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 09:25:15 +0100
Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2)
with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA21643; Thu, 23 Nov 95 09:25:14 +0100
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 9:25:13 +0100 (MET)
Reply-To: bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE
To: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
Cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>,
oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.817115113.bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
>On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>
>> Danny -
>>
>> > From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
>> >
>> > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
>> > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
>>
>> Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
>> records "bits as is" to tape? No labeling, no nothing.
> ------- snip ------
>> Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:
>>
>> cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
>> dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512
>>
> First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.
>
> Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
> TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
> which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
> TK-50 (under RT-11).
> I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel-
> to -reel magtape.
> Anybody know where I can find one ? :=)
I have a TU77 here in Sweden... :-)
And maybe Megan can answer for that "stupidity"...? :-)
Johnny
>From "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> Mon Nov 27 15:45:23 1995
Received: from mail.crl.com by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id QAA00979; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 16:57:04 +1100
Received: from crl14.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA03371
(5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>); Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:55:08 -0800
Received: by crl14.crl.com id AA17836
(5.65c/IDA-1.5 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:45:23 -0800
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:45:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: BSD211 Tape building
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951126212950.17682A-100000(a)crl14.crl.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greetings:
I'm getting there. Now that I have a working(??) drive, more trouble.
The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching.
bytes, 512 -byte
Tape file Docs- #records, size PC RT11disk blocks
0 mtboot 1 512 512 1
boot 14 512 32462 64
1 disklabel * 23@ 512 or 1024 36191 71
2 mkfs 28 1024 31727 62
3 restor 27 1024 34066 67
4 icheck 26 1024 31356 62
* disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places.
I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC
prior to ethernet-ing it to the PDP with no errors, and in fact
I unzipped one file on my unix host and beamed it down. It was the
same.
Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas
whatis going on here?
Merry Christmas!
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
* ( sysyphus(a)crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 *
* Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode *
*************************************************************************
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Mon Nov 27 17:09:29 1995
Received: from wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with ESMTP id SAA01218; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:10:55 +1059
Received: (from sms@localhost) by wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (8.6.10/8.6.12) id XAA21408; Sun, 26 Nov 1995 23:09:29 -0800
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 23:09:29 -0800
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199511270709.XAA21408(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, sysyphus(a)crl.com
Subject: Re: BSD211 Tape building
Hi -
> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
>
> Greetings:
> The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching.
I'm not sure what you mean by "not matching" - the sizes you list
below are correct. 'boot' is 32462 bytes, 'disklabel' is 36191 bytes,
'mkfs' is indeed 31727, and so on.
> Tape file Docs- #records, size PC RT11disk blocks
> 0 mtboot 1 512 512 1
> boot 14 512 32462 64
> 1 disklabel * 23@ 512 or 1024 36191 71
> 2 mkfs 28 1024 31727 62
> 3 restor 27 1024 34066 67
> 4 icheck 26 1024 31356 62
>
> * disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places.
ARRGH! That's a typo in the setup documents. Sorry 'bout that. I'll
updated the master copies and post a patch in comp.bugs.2bsd soon.
ALL of the executable programs (disklabel, icheck, mkfs, restor)
must be blocked at 1024 bytes per record on the tape.
> I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC
Yep - it looks like the gunzip went ok - the byte sizes look correct.
> Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas
> whatis going on here?
You lost me there - what is too big or too small about them? The
record counts mentioned in the setup documents are examples - the
counts were accurate at one time, but then if a bug was fixed or a
feature added to boot or restor the number of records would change
slightly.
The various programs change size over time and the documents are not
updated if the record sizes change a little bit.
Oh - you need to have 2 copies of the 'mtboot' file at the front of
the tape. Why (I hear you ask)? Some boot roms actually read the
2nd copy!
The format of a boot tape is:
mtboot
mtboot
boot
<TM>
disklabel
<TM>
mkfs
<TM>
restor
<TM>
icheck
<TM>
<TM> = Tape Mark.
the first file (with mtboot,mtboot,boot) is blocked at 512 bytes, all
the other executables are blocked at 1024 (ignore the typo in the
setup docs).
Good Luck!
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
In atricle by Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030:
>
> BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on
> my pdp11/34's and 11/44?
Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these.
Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP,
we can ask them for an answer.
P.S Back from holidays, the machine minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au died (out of swap)
on Saturday, and I've just rebooted her, so the mailing list is back up.
I've also moved 2.11BSD into the ftp archive on henry.cs.adfa.oz.au. Thanks
to Steven Schultz for the copy.
Cheers,
Warren
My 11/34 is currently down awaiting replacement of an RK05 head which
crashed rather painfully on Monday (the 13th !).
In the meantime, I'm trying to sort out a new UNIX image for it, using
an emulator on the PC. I have an 11/73 emulator for UNIX (Linux) with
RK05s, and an 11/34 emulator (E11) for DOS, which looks great, but
doesn't support RK05 yet.
The 11/73 emulator runs the v5 and v6 images nicely. The question is,
will these images run on a *real* 11/34 without a floating point
board? The /73 and /34 MMUs are significantly different I believe.
Looking at the v6 docs, the system is claimed to run on the 11/40, /45
and /70, but the /34 was yet to be created at that time, so there is
no information about that!
I'd be very grateful of someone could either tell me of a /34 emulator
with RK05 image support, or confirm if v5/v6/v7 UNIX will run on:
11/34a
128Kw
1xRK05
no floating point
no sep I+D (I guess)
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
"There's more to life than books you know, but not much more"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.
Does anyone know the major and minor numbers offhand, or know the
source well enough to know where to find them? I've grepped the source
to no avail ...
Cheers,
Bob
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
"I'd rather stay a child
and keep my self respect,
if being an adult
means being like you" Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Tom I Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO> Thu Nov 16 01:35:23 1995
Received: from Norway.EU.net by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id DAA28676; Thu, 16 Nov 1995 03:44:26 +1100
Received: by Norway.EU.net with UUCP id AA08831
(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/EUnet/NO for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:44:06 +0100
Received: (from tih@localhost) by barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA13129; Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:24 +0100
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Tom I Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO>
To: Bob Manners <rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: OldUnix MailingList <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <m0tFeu2-00000EC(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.NEB.3.91.951115163146.12873C-100000(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote:
> v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
> distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
> RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.
This works for me, with v6:
# chdir /dev
# ls -l
total 0
crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 console
crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 1 May 14 1975 kmem
crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 0 May 14 1975 mem
crw-rw-rw- 1 bin 8, 2 May 14 1975 null
brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 0 Oct 10 1975 rk0
brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 1 Oct 10 1975 rk1
brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 2 Oct 10 1975 rk2
brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 3 Oct 10 1975 rk3
crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 0 Nov 7 01:19 rrk0
crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 1 Nov 7 01:19 rrk1
crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 2 Nov 7 01:19 rrk2
crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 3 Nov 7 01:19 rrk3
crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 tty8
Protection could be better, of course. :-)
-tih
--
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO
>From Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030 <milov(a)fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> Thu Nov 16 03:22:22 1995
Received: from fingers.acs.uwlax.edu by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id EAA28815; Thu, 16 Nov 1995 04:22:44 +1100
Received: by fingers.acs.uwlax.edu;
id AA02396; NX5.67d/42; Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:22:22 -0600
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:22:22 -0600
From: Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030 <milov(a)fingers.acs.uwlax.edu>
Message-Id: <9511151722.AA02396(a)fingers.acs.uwlax.edu>
Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100.RR)
Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100.RR)
To: Tom I Helbekkmo <tih(a)hamartun.priv.no>
Subject: Re: mknod device numbers
Cc: OldUnix MailingList <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Reply-To: Milo.Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu
Hi,
All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the
device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab
structure in the kernel. This is probably something that can be divined by
running nm on the kernel, /unix ? (All this is from memory, my annotated V6
kernel listing is buried at home right now.) But, I'd be surprised to see a V6
distribution that didn't have the rk drivers built in. Another thing to
watch out for is the rk driver, er, device names/numbers that interleaved a
file system across multiple drives.
BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on
my pdp11/34's and 11/44?
--Milo
---
Milo Velimirovic <Milo.Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu>
Unix Computer Network Administrator (608) 785-8030
Information Technology, Operations and Networking
University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W
Begin forwarded message:
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET)
> From: Tom I Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO>
> To: Bob Manners <rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
> Cc: OldUnix MailingList <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: Re: mknod device numbers
> In-Reply-To: <m0tFeu2-00000EC(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote:
>
> > v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
> > distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
> > RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.
>
> This works for me, with v6:
>
> # chdir /dev
> # ls -l
> total 0
> crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 console
> crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 1 May 14 1975 kmem
> crw-rw-r-- 1 bin 8, 0 May 14 1975 mem
> crw-rw-rw- 1 bin 8, 2 May 14 1975 null
> brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 0 Oct 10 1975 rk0
> brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 1 Oct 10 1975 rk1
> brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 2 Oct 10 1975 rk2
> brw-rw-rw- 1 root 0, 3 Oct 10 1975 rk3
> crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 0 Nov 7 01:19 rrk0
> crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 1 Nov 7 01:19 rrk1
> crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 2 Nov 7 01:19 rrk2
> crw-rw-rw- 1 root 9, 3 Nov 7 01:19 rrk3
> crw--w--w- 2 root 0, 0 Nov 7 21:14 tty8
>
> Protection could be better, of course. :-)
>
> -tih
> --
> Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO
>
>
>From Tom I Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO> Thu Nov 16 06:57:59 1995
Received: from Norway.EU.net by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id IAA29309; Thu, 16 Nov 1995 08:03:54 +1059
Received: by Norway.EU.net with UUCP id AA29747
(5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/EUnet/NO for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) Wed, 15 Nov 1995 22:03:25 +0100
Received: (from tih@localhost) by barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA14351; Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:58:00 +0100
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:57:59 +0100 (MET)
From: Tom I Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO>
To: Milo.Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu
Cc: OldUnix MailingList <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396(a)fingers.acs.uwlax.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.NEB.3.91.951115213628.14251A-100000(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030 wrote:
> All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the
> device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab
> structure in the kernel.
True enough. The example I gave was correct for the V6 distribution
that Ken Wellsch donated to the PUPS archive, and in which the file
/usr/sys/conf/c.c (generated by 'mkconf' in the same directory) ends
up with the following for the default "rkunix" with rk, tm and tc
drivers enabled, as per the script /usr/sys/run:
int (*bdevsw[])()
{
&nulldev, &nulldev, &rkstrategy, &rktab, /* rk */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* rp */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* rf */
&tmopen, &tmclose, &tmstrategy, &tmtab, /* tm */
&nulldev, &tcclose, &tcstrategy, &tctab, /* tc */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* hs */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* hp */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, 0, /* ht */
0
};
int (*cdevsw[])()
{
&klopen, &klclose, &klread, &klwrite, &klsgtty, /* console */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* pc */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* lp */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dc */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dh */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dp */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dj */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* dn */
&nulldev, &nulldev, &mmread, &mmwrite, &nodev, /* mem */
&nulldev, &nulldev, &rkread, &rkwrite, &nodev, /* rk */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* rf */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* rp */
&tmopen, &tmclose, &tmread, &tmwrite, &nodev, /* tm */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* hs */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* hp */
&nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, &nodev, /* ht */
0
};
The major device numbers are the offsets (counting from 0) in these
arrays, so rk has major 0 for the block device, 9 for the character
device. I would assume that this holds for V6 in general -- if one
were to add device drivers, one would surely extend these arrays at
their ends, not insert anything into them... :-)
-tih
--
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO
In atricle by Johnny Billquist:
>
> >Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
> >I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?
>
> I think it should go there, anyway.
What's its copyright? I'd love it, but I'll check with Doug first.
P.S Rewrote Xinu on ass. code for an Apple ][, pretty sick, huh :-)
See you all later,
Warren
>From "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> Wed Nov 15 12:02:41 1995
Received: from mail.crl.com by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id NAA26336; Wed, 15 Nov 1995 13:12:09 +1100
Received: from crl4.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA16900
(5.65c/IDA-1.5 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>); Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:10:23 -0800
Received: by crl4.crl.com id AA26679
(5.65c/IDA-1.5 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:02:42 -0800
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:02:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd)
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951114180137.26434C-100000(a)crl4.crl.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greetings:
I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that
I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's
or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11
but won't go with BSD or TSX, and no docs on it at all).
I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were
a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from.
Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain?
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
* ( sysyphus(a)crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 *
* Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode *
*************************************************************************
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Wed Nov 15 16:13:24 1995
Received: from wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with ESMTP id RAA27353; Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:17:42 +1100
Received: (from sms@localhost) by wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (8.6.10/8.6.12) id WAA21716; Tue, 14 Nov 1995 22:13:24 -0800
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 22:13:24 -0800
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199511150613.WAA21716(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, sysyphus(a)crl.com
Subject: Re: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd)
Howdy -
> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
>
> I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that
> I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's
> or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11
The version of 2.9 I have dates from 1983 and lacks any support for
TMSCP and MSCP.
Support for those came later, the initial 2BSD driver is dated
September 1985 and has a comment to the effect it's based on the
4.3BSD UDA driver, so 2.10 was likely the first inclusion of MSCP
in a 2BSD kit.
By the time of 2.10BSD the MSCP driver was definitely present.
TMSCP support didn't make it in until 2.10.1BSD in 1989 - I know that
for sure 'cause I did the port.
> I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were
> a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from.
TK-50 support didn't enter the picture until 1989 and it's a real
beast of a driver (not to mention the bootblock and standalone
driver).
> Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain?
Unless you can find some one with a later 2.9BSD system into which
the MSCP driver was hacked (doubtful but who knows) I think you're
out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll find a TK50 version of 2.9
since that wasn't added until 2.10.1BSD.
On a /73 you're probably _much_ better off installing 2.11BSD
(currently at rev #277) - it's due to enter the archive in Oz any
day now (when Warren gets back from vacation).
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
require separate I+D space?
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
"Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue,
the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> Fri Nov 10 20:23:55 1995
Received: from sunic.sunet.se by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with ESMTP id VAA02565; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:23:48 +1059
Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.8/2.03)
id LAA05761; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:23:57 +0100
Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2)
with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA01251; Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:56 +0100
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:55 +0100 (MET)
Reply-To: bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE
To: rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (OldUnix MailingList)
Subject: Re: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT)
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.815999035.bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
>
>It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
>separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
>suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
>require separate I+D space?
Steve Schoultz is really the one to answer this question, but I
seem to remember that BSD2.9 was the last version which worked
on non-I/D-space systems.
Johnny
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> Fri Nov 10 20:23:03 1995
Received: from sunic.sunet.se by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with ESMTP id VAA02562; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:23:08 +1100
Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.8/2.03)
id LAA05690; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:23:06 +0100
Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2)
with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA01202; Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:04 +0100
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:03 +0100 (MET)
Reply-To: bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE
To: risner(a)heathers.stdio.com (James Risner)
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.815998983.bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
>Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
>I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?
I think it should go there, anyway.
Johnny
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Sat Nov 11 02:46:36 1995
Received: from wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with ESMTP id DAA03199; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 03:46:56 +1059
Received: (from sms@localhost) by wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (8.6.10/8.6.12) id IAA18106; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:46:36 -0800
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:46:36 -0800
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199511101646.IAA18106(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
Bob -
> From: rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
>
> It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
> separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
> suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
> require separate I+D space?
The last version of UNIX for the PDP11 which stood a chance of
running on a non split machine was 2.9BSD. I'd expect it to be
a very tight fit though because even on a split I/D machine we
ended up overlaying the kernel (but then even V7 took overlays
to fit - which we hacked into the kernel, at least in the environment
here). A long long time ago I did squish a V7 system into an 11/23 -
not a pretty sight, each command you ran caused the others on the
system to be swapped out (do a "ls -l" and watch the shell get swapped,
when the 'ls' finished then the shell would be swapped back in, etc.)
V6 would be a better match for a non-split (248kb max) machine. By
the time V7 was out the 11/70 was being used as the development
platform and split I/D was becoming more and more necessary.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
I posted this query to vmsnet.pdp-11 and alt.sys.pdp11, but following
Warren's complaint that noone was talking on oldunix@minnie I'll ask
you lot too ...
I have on my PC hard disk a couple of rk05 disk images (from Warren's
archive, naturally). Question is, how to get them onto a real rk05
... the real PDP beats the emulator any day after all ...
Naturally someone has workedout how to extract RK05 images to files to
put on the archive site. I'm wondering if anyone has solved the
reverse problem yet ...
I could split up the file into moderate sized pieces (say 250k, RX01
sized bits), boot the PDP (RT11) off RX01 floppy, start kermit and
transfer a file piece from the PC to the other PDP floppy drive. Then
I could mount a fresh RK05 pack, format etc. and run some crafty code
to write the file to the appropriate place on the 'raw' RK05 device.
What do you think?
Another correspondent mentioned that Kermit may be able to write to
"raw" devices directly, allowing me to transfer the file all in one
piece. I'm still waiting for confirmation of that -- seems a little
unlikely to me, but I've been suprised before.
My system is:
11/34a
1 x RK05 (2.5Mb removable type, RK05f I think - or is it j?)
1 x RX01
128Kword
As you can see, backing store is in short supply ;)
I'd sooner avoid writing too much Macro-11 at present, so if the
problem is already solved, I'd love to know how ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
"Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue,
the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Fri Nov 10 04:11:19 1995
Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.8/8.3) with SMTP id FAA29776; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 05:18:32 +1100
Received: from post.demon.co.uk by relay-4.mail.demon.net id sg.af11673;
9 Nov 95 18:16 GMT
Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk by relay-3.mail.demon.net id sg.aa05149;
9 Nov 95 18:16 GMT
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:11:19 GMT
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
Message-Id: <138(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Register of machines
X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d
X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS
Dear All,
I have just had a note from someone who wants to get RK05 stuff on to his
system but might be in a position where his current setup can't do it.
This sort of stuff might be helped if people submitted a register of what kit
they have. This could allow people in reasonable geographic location to help
each other out. FOr instance, if some one had a unix system that an rk05 could
be plugged into then they could do this and then give the rk05's back once they
had the stuff copied over.
To start it off. I have:
1*11/73 (1.5MByte)
2*RD54
1*DHV11
1*TK50
Running 2.11 BSD.
I also have 1*Compaq 386 (486 Cyrix chip)
running FreeBSD
I live in Gloucestershire UK and am willing to help anybody in copying stuff
that I can. I can get access to 0.5inch mag tape RA60 and RL02 if necessary.
Cheers
Robin
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robin Birch EMail robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
Firstly, this old unix mailing list is damn quiet - I'm the only one
talking. If you have any questions, ideas etc., mail them to
oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au.
I'm away all of next week for a holiday, but will be back after that.
Steven Schultz has promised 2.11BSD for the PDP Unix archive, and
I'm also talking with Keith Bostic, as he has some stuff of interest.
There is also a new PDP-11 simulator; this one runs a.out binaries
directly, and passes the syscalls directly to the native operating system.
You can pick it up at:
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz
If anybody can fix the bugs mentioned in the README, please let me know!
See you all again soon!
Warren
