Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
I have just finished SCCS-reconstructing /usr/src/sys. Amazingly (and to CSRG's
credit) the history has been preserved very well, and I have SCCS-recostructed
almost every file in the kernel. There are only a few lost SCCS files. For the
list see:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/sccs.html
If you know anything about these files, please contact me ASAP!
Also when I SCCS-reconstructed the /usr/src/sys/tahoe* subdirs, I had to take a
step back. In the currently shipping release, 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0, these subdirs
are identical to the ones on the 4.3BSD-Tahoe+HCX-9 tape. However, in the
current master source tree they have been stepped back to the original
4.3BSD-Tahoe tape. For the explanation of this decision, see:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/arch.html
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Fri Jan 15 13:51:04 1999
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199901150351.OAA21707(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Success in Compiling Nsys Kernel
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:51:04 +1100 (EST)
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All,
After several days of frustration and enlightenment, I have been
able to compile and boot the `nsys' kernel source code on top of a 5th
Edition RK05 root filesystem.
The `nsys' kernel code corresponds to a time around the 3rd Edition of UNIX,
i.e. Jan 1973. Dennis Ritchie donated this to the PUPS Archive a few days ago.
I have placed the modifications to `nsys', plus some documentation, in the
PUPS Archive in Distributions/research/Dennis_v3.
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Fri Jan 15 15:20:12 1999
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Success in Compiling Nsys Kernel
In-Reply-To: <01be4045$e3b28080$f2681081(a)collinse-home.tyson.com> from Efton Collins at "Jan 14, 1999 11: 8:35 pm"
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:20:12 +1100 (EST)
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In article by Efton Collins:
> I wonder how long it has been since that version of the kernel ran? Could be
> 25 years. Surely that will now be the earliest bootable kernel bar none. It
> must give Ken and Dennis a smile.
>
> It is nice to see such interesting things continue to find their way into
> the archive. With the help of so many of the pioneers PUPS is fulfilling its
> charter very well indeed.
>
> E-
Hi Efton. I had been keeping Dennis informed of my progress, and a few
days ago he passed on some email from Bob Keys:
[Dennis wrote:]
Keys said (when I mentioned your tries)
> Ohhh, neato! Let us keep fingers crossed, knock on wood 3 times,
> cow-tow as appropriate, rub the rabbit's foot, throw salt before
> the sumo ring, .... and anything else?.....(:+}}....
Dennis then went on to suggest some debugging ideas, when I was stuck:
Astonishing. When booting it might be best to start
with an init that just does
open(something);
open(something);
write(1, "Hello\n", 6);
It might even be appropriate to try first with just abort();
to see if /etc/init can be read,
He must be out today, because I haven't got a reply back from my email
indicating success.
The `nsys' files were dated Jan 22, 1973. I definitely wanted to get the
kernel working by Jan 22, 1999 so that it was only 25 years ago, not 26!
I've also made some notes about the differences between `nsys' and V5,
attached below. Thanks for your encouraging email.
Cheers,
Warren
Differences in available syscalls between `nsys' and V5.
========================================================
Syscalls in `nsys' but not in V5:
---------------------------------
1, &quit, /* 26 = quit */
1, &intr, /* 27 = intr */
1, &cemt, /* 29 = cemt */
1, &ilgins, /* 33 = ilgins */
1, &fpe, /* 40 = fpe */
These deliver signals QUIT, INTR, EMT, INS or FPE
to the pid in arg0. Any user can send these signals.
0, &prproc /* 63 = special */
For each of the 50 entries in the proc array, if there is
a valid process entry there, print the array index and the
following fields from the proc structure:
p_stat, p_flag, p_pid, p_ppid,
p_addr, p_size, p_wchan, p_textp
Syscalls in V5 but not in `nsys':
---------------------------------
0, &getpid, /* 20 = getpid */
1, &smdate, /* 30 = smdate */
0, &nice, /* 34 = nice */
0, &pipe, /* 42 = pipe */ !!!
4, &profil, /* 44 = prof */
Other Differences
-----------------
/* 21 = mount */ has 2 arguments in `nsys', 3 in V5
/* 37 = kill */ has 0 arguments in `nsys', 1 in V5
Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
I have finally updated the Quasijarus Project WWW page so that now it's much
more useful. You can find it at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)McKusick.COM> wrote:
> I applaud your desire not to break old 4.2/4.3 machines.
> I would be very resistant to losing support for a popular
> machine like the 11/750. However, I think that losing support
> for the 11/730 would be acceptable.
You are not the first person I hear this from, and I wouldn't completely
disagree. However, it always pains me very much when a system really ought to
run on a machine and has all the necessary ingredients, but fails because of
some tiny nit. This is exactly the case here. The CPU is supported, the console
storage device is supported, all bootstrap scripts are already written, even
the IDC is supported, but the standalone programs refuse to load because of a
ucode botch!
Now, I did look more carefully, and the boot.730 program does fit into 12.5 KB
after all in 4.2 and 4.3 (copy.730 fits in 4.2 but not in 4.3, and format.730
doesn't fit even in 4.2). So I guess it would be possible after all to massage
up the Makefile and the ifdefing in the sources to make the 4.3-Quasijarus
standalone system build a small boot.730.
However, the objections to this approach are:
1. Instead of tidying up the standalone system, this would make it an even
worse mess.
2. In future Quasijarus releases I plan to retire the current standalone
drivers for U/Q and BI MSCP and make the standalone system call DEC's own
VMB for I/O from/to all MSCP devices, making it possible to support MSCP on
more than just U/Q and BI. However, this means that all big VAX users with
MSCP disks will now need a copy of DEC's VMB.EXE in addition to UNIX's
native boot code. It will also have to be a recent enough version, and I'm
sure as hell that the version that came with 11/730 is too old. A newer
version of VMB can be pulled out of almost any VMS or Ultrix distribution,
but the one I have seen was 40 KB long. Thus even if I manage to make a
boot.730 that fits within 12.5 KB, you would still need the 40 KB VMB.EXE if
your disk is RAxx (the most common type), and this obviously makes boot.730
squeezing an exercise in futility.
Resolution: I will pitch the *.730 programs and add a note to the documentation
that installation on a 730 requires a ucode upgrade that fixes this botch. If
someone asks me where to obtain one (or how to write one if it doesn't exist),
I'll redirect them to this list, as I have no idea. :-)
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
I wonder if any of you has some input on this issue. As I'm preparing for
making my planned disk labeling improvements (making it possible to install the
system on a fresh unlabeled disk in a more or less straightforward way), I
first want to clean up some mess in the standalone system. One thing that
annoys me in there is that for every standalone program that's supposed to go
on the console media there are two versions built, a normal one and a "730"
one. The comments say that 11/730 has a microcode botch that prevents it from
loading programs larger than 12.5 KB, so supposedly all "730" standalone
programs must be smaller than that. However, right now all standalone programs
are around 30 KB, and the difference between the normal and "730" versions is
only about 3 KB, even though the "730" versions do have the MASSBUS and BI code
compiled out. Wondering if there is a way to make them smaller, I looked at
older versions, and guess what, even in 4.2 the "730" versions are a little bit
over the alleged 12.5 KB limit! That's right, 4.2BSD is the first release with
11/730 support, and its standalone programs are already over the alleged 11/730
microcode limit!
This raises quite a few questions. First of all, does the 11/730 microcode
really have this limitation, or is it just a hoax? If this limit does exist,
when exactly does it apply? The BSD distribution TU58 cassette always used the
full versions of the programs, not the "730" ones (the distribution cassette is
also used for 750s), and yet apparently 730s could be bootstrapped from it.
Maybe this limitation applies only to automatic bootstrap and not to manual
loading? And if this is indeed a microcode botch, are there any patches
available for it?
I would appreciate it if someone here can provide some answers to these
questions. I would really like to get rid of those "730" standalone programs,
but I can't do it if this would break 11/730 support. (It's my responsibility
as the 4.3BSD-* maintainer to only add features, but never break anything that
works in plain 4.3 or 4.2.)
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
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>From Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Wed Jan 13 06:18:13 1999
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To: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov)
Subject: Re: 11/730 question
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:18:35 EST."
<199901122318.SAA04873(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:18:13 -0800
From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com>
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I applaud your desire not to break old 4.2/4.3 machines.
I would be very resistant to losing support for a popular
machine like the 11/750. However, I think that losing support
for the 11/730 would be acceptable. It was a very feeble
processor (0.3 of a 780) and very few of them were ever sold.
We had only one at Berkeley (for porting purposes), and it was
so slow that we were not even able to pawn it off on the
undergrad CS organization when we were done with it.
Kirk
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G'day all...
I have a DEC-PRO/350.
I believe it is a PDP8.
Is there any way of confirming this?
Thanks.
Michael.
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>From "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com> Wed Jan 13 00:26:39 1999
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From: "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com>
To: "BeLFrY" <belfry(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au>,
"\"\\\"PUPs\\\" PDP11 Unix Preservation group\"" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Confirming machine hardware.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:26:39 -0700
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Hi Michael,
----------
> From: BeLFrY <belfry(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au>
> To: "\"PUPs\" PDP11 Unix Preservation group" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: Confirming machine hardware.
> Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 11:34 PM
> I have a DEC-PRO/350.
which is nice ;-))
> I believe it is a PDP8.
> Is there any way of confirming this?
Sorry, there is no way to confirm this ;-)) (sorry, couldn't resist)
the nearest "brother" of the pro/350 would be the pdp11/23, pdp11//23+ or
pdp11/24, because the use the same CPU. (DCF11)
hope it helps,
emanuel
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Wed Jan 13 05:43:04 1999
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: BeLFrY <belfry(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au>
cc: "\"\\\"PUPs\\\" PDP11 Unix Preservation group\"" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Confirming machine hardware.
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On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, BeLFrY wrote:
> G'day all...
Hi there.
> I have a DEC-PRO/350.
>
> I believe it is a PDP8.
>
> Is there any way of confirming this?
No.
However I can confirm that it is a pdp-11.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
In article by Lawrence Reinish:
> I am looking for several issues of 'EDU MAGAZINE' from mid-1975 to 1976.
> It was published by Digital Equipment Corporation. Any assistance would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Lawrence Reinish
Lawrence, I don't have any copies. I'll forward this on to some people
who might be able to help you.
Cheers,
Warren
All,
Dennis has just passed to me the source to a UNIX kernel around
the 3rd Edition (i.e around 1973). He says this is the oldest
machine-readable UNIX source he has. I've just placed it in the PUPS
archive at:
Distributions/research/Dennis_v3
Cheers,
Warren
Hello everyone,
Sorry for being away from the list lately, the machine I was doing my E-mail on
(harrier.Uznet.NET) has been down for several days, and I have to assume that
it's down forever. I have moved my mail back to my old address
<mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu>.
If any of you have sent any mail to msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET in the past
several days, please resend it to mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu, since
harrier.Uznet.NET is probably down forever and everything in my mailbox is
lost. (I have recovered the missed pups mail via the archive.)
Sorry for this screw-up, but it's not my fault, I'm not that machine's admin.
(The admin is Stacy Minkin, whom I can't contact because his address is also
obviously on that machine.)
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Jan 7 13:39:39 1999
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: V8's roots? (fwd)
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:39:39 +1100 (EST)
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----- Forwarded message from dmr -----
I also got mail from Norman Wilson today about the discussion.
This is mainly to confirm and fill out details of Wilson's account.
The Eighth Edition system started with (I believe) BSD 4.1c and
the work was done on VAX 11/750s -- our group did not get
a 780 until a while later.
Most of the operating system superstructure of BSD was retained
(in particular no one (even the indefatigable Norman)
wanted to get much into the paging code. Norman is also
right that the competitor was John Reiser's (and Tom London's)
32V descendant from another group at the Labs. In structure
this system had a lot to offer (in particular the buffer cache and the page
pool were unified, but it was clear that their work was not being
supported by their own management. It was used for a while on
our first 750 and also our first 11/780 ("alice", a name that lives
in netnews fame preceding the reach of Dejanews).
The big change leading to V8 was the scooping-out and replacement of
the character-device and networking part by the streams mechanism. Later,
Peter Weinberger added the file-system switch that enabled
remote file systems and prescient things ideas like /proc). Weinberger,
as Norman said, also did a simple-minded FFS.
The TCP/IP stack wasn't very important to us then and it has a mixed and
murky history. Much of it came from early CSRG work, but it was converted
to a streams approach by Robert Morris and subsequently fiddled over a lot.
Likewise, as Norman said, the applications (/bin and whatnot) were somewhat
of a mixture. Many were the locally-done versions, some were taken
from BSD in some incarnation, some from System V.
Dennis
----- End of forwarded message from dmr -----
The operating system kernel on the V8 distribution tape (which was sent
to less than a dozen places, under special license) was indeed descended
from one of the 4.1 BSD releases; I have a vague memory that it was 4.1a,
but I wasn't there at the time, and don't know just what was in each of
the intermediate 4.1s. As I understand the history (again, I wasn't there
when this part happened), when the Computing Science Research Center
decided to move its main computing world to VAX in the early 1980s,
they wanted a reasonably stable, reasonably fast system with paging,
and 4.1x (for whatever value of x it was) seemed the best available choice.
The only real competitor was the paging descendant of 32/V done by John
Reiser (who did the original 32/V port to the VAX, I believe), but that
system seemed to have lost the evolutionary battle and was judged a bad
bet.
It may help to identify the kernel in question to know that it probably
didn't have sockets yet, and certainly didn't have FFS.
The 4.1x kernel was just used as a base, however. By the time I arrived
at the Center in late 1984, a good bit had been added and replaced: the
V7-heritage terminal IO subsystem had been kicked out in favour of Dennis
Ritchie's stream I/O system; Peter Weinberger's simple disk file system
speedups (4KB blocks and a bitmapped free list, nothing more) and network
file system code and the corresponding file system switch had been added;
Tom Killian's process file system had appeared.
The commands in /bin and /usr/bin and whatnot had less obvious BSD influence,
and I suspect they were mostly carried over from the system used internally
on the PDP11s when the VAXes first arrived.
Norman Wilson
(six years in New Jersey drove me out of the country)
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So get this -- Matt Kjaer, a friend of a friend of mine and the person who
originally got me interested in PDP's, works at the University of Oregon
computing center. He claims that if he can dig it up, the University of
Oregon has an original Unix license for PDP-11's. I'm not sure what
version of Unix it is or if it's even from SCO, but assuming it is, where
do we fax/mail/deliver/etc a copy of it to get access to the legendary
protected FTP directory with the source codes?
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Jan 7 08:20:25 1999
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199901062220.JAA19617(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Twist of Fate...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990106125635.20195A-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net> from "Erin W. Corliss" at "Jan 6, 1999 1: 6:48 pm"
To: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net (Erin W. Corliss)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:20:25 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by Erin W. Corliss:
>
> So get this -- Matt Kjaer, a friend of a friend of mine and the person who
> originally got me interested in PDP's, works at the University of Oregon
> computing center. He claims that if he can dig it up, the University of
> Oregon has an original Unix license for PDP-11's. I'm not sure what
> version of Unix it is or if it's even from SCO, but assuming it is, where
> do we fax/mail/deliver/etc a copy of it to get access to the legendary
> protected FTP directory with the source codes?
Fax a copy to me (the pages giving the license owner, the license number,
the list of operating systems covered, the list of CPUs covered, and the
signatures), and then get Matt to email me!
As per usual, I need to send back access details securely. A fax number
or a means of obtaining a PGP key will allow me to do this.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Jan 7 08:26:54 1999
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199901062226.JAA19685(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Twist of Fate...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990106142501.20945A-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net> from "Erin W. Corliss" at "Jan 6, 1999 2:26:32 pm"
To: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net (Erin W. Corliss)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:26:54 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by Erin W. Corliss:
> On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> > Fax a copy to me (the pages giving the license owner, the license number,
> > the list of operating systems covered, the list of CPUs covered, and the
> > signatures), and then get Matt to email me!
>
> What's your fax number?
Damn, I knew I'd forget to put that in!
Warren: +61 2 6268 8581
Ciao,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Jan 7 09:00:40 1999
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199901062300.KAA19815(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Bob Manners: new email addr?
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:00:40 +1100 (EST)
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Sorry to bother the list. Mail to Bob Manners rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk is
bouncing, and I know he'd like to stay on the PUPS list. Has anybody got
a new address for him?
Thanks,
Warren
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