Greg,
> Thought about that too but the math doesn't work. 40+64 chips = 104
> chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits.
>
> 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38
Right... 12 bits of ECC seems a bit much. Dunno what that stuff is
about... weird! ;)
Fred
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>From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Thu Mar 8 07:15:48 2001
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From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>
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To: greg(a)ciswired.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
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> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com>
> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
>
>
> p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of
> 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
> area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter
> what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
> fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB
> board, but what about the extra chips?
Nat.Semi. used to make ECC memory boards for the PDP11.
I had one once, it looks like you have one now. My arithmetic says 5
extra bits per 8-bit byte makes for single-error correcting, dual-error
detecting ECC on the byte level. Vaxes do it with 39 bits per 32-bit
word, Alphas do it with 72 bits per 64-bit word. Economy of scale.
As I remember, you could just ignore the ECC and it would work like
a standard parity memory board, except that it very rarely had any
parity errors.
carl
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
{decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu
clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu
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On Mar 6, 20:07, Gregory R. Travis wrote:
The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they
> all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot
> remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their
> controller - anyone?
Yes, that's what happens if either the terminator or the controller is not
connected.
> p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of
> 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
> area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter
> what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
> fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB
> board, but what about the extra chips?
Is it ECC memory?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> Wed Mar 7 22:59:46 2001
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Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:59:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com>
To: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D32(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl>
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On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of
> > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
> > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter
> > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
> > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB
> > board, but what about the extra chips?
>
> FastECC or parity, most likely... usually two or three bits per
> word... 256K x 18.
Thought about that too but the math doesn't work. 40+64 chips = 104
chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits.
6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38
greg
Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg(a)ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18
On Mar 6, 11:46, robin.birch(a)postoffice.co.uk wrote:
>
>
> Dear All,
> I am after some reels of 0.5 inch tape and some spare write protect rings
in the
> UK. Can anyone help?
I may have one or two spare reels, and I certainly have quite a few spare
write rings. How many are you looking for? Does it matter if they're in
Wright-line seals, canisters, or autoload collars? Contact me off-list to
give me your address.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> Wed Mar 7 11:07:00 2001
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
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MANY thanks to all who responded to my questions regarding the PDP-11
equipment I recently acquired. I believe that I am well on my way to
being able to build a fairly substantial operating 11/44 museum piece.
I was able to open up the three RA81s and inspect them. Luckily their
heads had all been locked in place. Unfortunately, the belt release on
all were still set in "tension." Hopefully this will be a minor
issue.
I powered up the RA81s, all power up and start spinning the platters. I
have not allowed any of them to rotate fast enough to load the heads though -
I want to do a good cleaning first and get them situated in their
cabinets.
The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they
all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot
remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their
controller - anyone?
Finally, I have two 1MB Standard Memories memory boards, a 256K
Standard Memories board, 2 DEC 256K memory boards, 1 DEC 1MB
memory board, and 1 512K National Semiconductor memory board (see below).
All these are 11/44 memories.
Does anyone have CSR/etc. DIP switch settings for the Standard Memories
and/or Nat. Semi boards? I can't find anything on the 'net and I
have no other documentation.
Thanks!
greg
p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of
16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter
what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB
board, but what about the extra chips?
Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg(a)ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Mar 7 11:53:21 2001
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Subject: [pups] Fred's Ultrix-11 now in the UNIX Archive
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:53:21 +1100 (EST)
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In article <7263E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC30A8A9F(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl>,
"Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)MicroWalt.NL> writes:
> Here is a quick snippet I just wrote up while loading my distribution on
> a test system. This file will be cleaned up,
> enriched and so on and included in the next release.
> Fred
The UNIX Archive now has Fred's distributions and his setup.txt in
the PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Fred-Ultrix3 directory:
total 17328
-rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 892 Mar 7 01:30 README.ult11-3.0
-rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 1663 Mar 6 12:36 README.ult11-3.1
-rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 25497 Mar 7 12:53 setup-3.1.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 6680997 Mar 7 06:33 ult11-3.0-kit.tar.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 10988112 Mar 7 06:52 ult11-3.1-kit.tar.gz
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/archive_access.html
Warren
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Wed Mar 7 18:54:48 2001
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Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:54:48 +0100 (CET)
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se>
To: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
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On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote:
> The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they
> all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot
> remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their
> controller - anyone?
Yes, they will turn on the fault light if not connected to a controller.
> p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of
> 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
> area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter
> what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
> fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB
> board, but what about the extra chips?
ECC?
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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> 2. Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s. I assume they're the
> same lamp for both drives. These are the lamps that go behind the
> front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write
Protect/etc.)
> I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG. A search on Goodle
> for this pulls up nothing.
RL02's and RA81's use different bulbs; the #73 is for the RL02, and is
14V. The #86 is for the RA8n, and is 6.30V. You can put the #86 in a
RL02, and while it will be real bright, the lifetime will be measured
in hours. Put the #73 in a RA8n and it will be dim, but at least it'll last
a while :-).
These bulbs are readily available in the US from most "old-line" electronics
distributors. Mail order places that stock them are Newark and Mouser;
the relevant Newark URL's are
http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=50N8…
and
http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=50N8…
If you're going to be doing this a lot, you ought to find yourself a
bulb puller. Getting those bulbs in and out of recessed sockets is a whole
lot easier with such a tool!
Tim.
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On Mar 5, 11:52, Gregory R. Travis wrote:
> I need sources for the following, can anyone suggest good starting
points?
>
> 1. Unit select plugs for the RL02s. All the plugs I have are "0",
> I'd like to be able to use more than one RL02 on the system if need
be.
I had a similar problem -- several RL02s but the plugs were for units 0 and
1 ("And sometimes we didn't even have ones. I wrote an entire database
using only zeros." "You had zeros? We had to use the letter 'O'.")
The switches are standard Honeywell AML series, so you might be able to get
plugs for them frm a Honeywell supplier -- but don't hold your breath.
Each plug has a finger on each side (and a "key" on top). The upper and
lower edge of each finger activates (or not) a contact in the housing. I
used matchsticks to work out what lengths were required before I saw real
plugs. Of course, I wouldn't recommend using matchsticks except in an
emergency but you could do what I did, and make your own plugs. I made
mine from thin Perspex (Lucite), each from five pieces glued together to
make a box. The "code" is:
Unit upper left lower left upper right lower right
0 short short short long
1 short short long* long
2 long long short long
3 long long long* long
The ones I've marked "long*" go the full length of the finger, with just a
small bevel to make insertion easier.
> 2. Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s. I assume they're the
> same lamp for both drives. These are the lamps that go behind the
> front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write
Protect/etc.)
> I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG. A search on Goodle
> for this pulls up nothing.
They're standard T1 1/2 wedge-base bulbs (5mm dia x 18mm long), but to be
authentic you should use 14V bulbs rather than the more common 12V ones.
12V ones will burn out relatively quickly.
> 3. New, or good substitutes, for the coarse air filters used
behind
> the 11/44 front panel as well as behind the RA81 front panels. The
> ones that I have are literally crumbling apart.
The best thing I've found is the synthetic open-weave fibrous mat used in
domestic cooker hoods and the like. I get mine from the local hardware
shop; it's very cheap. It comes in at least two thicknesses; if the stuff
you find is too thick, you can peel it apart as if it were layered.
Can't help with the rest, I'm afraid.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Tue Mar 6 07:48:34 2001
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From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: [pups] DEC ULTRIX-11 V3.1 bin/src install kit
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:48:34 +0100
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All,
As a part of my efforts to create an enhanced version of the Ultrix-11 Unix
distribution that can be used on PDP-11's, I started out with creating a kit
that has all the parts and which can be used to create a bootable
installation
tape from which you can install it on a machine.
I am uploading "ultrix11-v3.1-kit.tar.gz" to PUPS as we speak. A README
file
is included, as contains the following:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
DEC ULTRX-11 V3.1 Master Distribution Kit
This directory contains the files needed to build a complete
installation kit of version 3.1 of the ULTRIX-11 Unix system
for the DEC PDP-11. Version 3.1 was also the final release;
no more development was done after, as UEG shifted its focus
to the new VAX systems. Ultrix effectively was ported to the
VAX. and called Ultrix-32. Later releases were called either
Ultrix/VAX or Ultrix/RISC, depending on which DEC platform it
was for.
This distribution contains files from both the V3.1 binary
kit (dug up by Wilko Bulte), the V3.1 source kit from Steven
Schultz, and some other tools and files grabbed from anywhere.
The kit is basically a regeneratable V3.1 binary boot kit,
with the official SRCKIT added to it (as tape file 35). The
top-level "build" script does what it says.. it builds the
tape so you can start it up and go to get some sleep :)
To get the ball rolling, check the value of the TAPE variable
at the top of the "build" script. It is set to what MY tape
device (TK50 on TQK50 controller) under Ultrix-11 V3.1 is,
so you may have to change it.
Then, type
./build
and watch things go. After about two hours of tape activity,
you should be woken up by two BEEPs telling you that it is all
done. Unload the tape and you're all set.
Extreme thanks go to Wilko and Steven for digging up this stuff;
to Bill Gunshannon, Ed "The Wanderer", Kees Stravers and Warren
Toomey for their support while I was fighting hardware problems
and debug weird software issues. Thanks guys!!
If you run into problems, drop me a note!
Have fun !
Fred N. van Kempen, <fred(a)microwalt.nl>
March 5th, 2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Upcoming release of this kit will contain, amongst other things:
- VTserver 2.0 support (you can install the tape off a virtual tape
server!!)
- TDF 1.0 (Tape Dump Format) file support for archiving tape dumps
- My TCP/IP "fromto" network pipe program
- C-Kermit, compress/uncompress
- more documentation
- more network stuff
- my RX50 boot/rescue diskette set (2 RX50's.. neat!)
Watch this space for more....
Warren: expect about 38MB of stuff to drop into your mailbox tonight...
Cheers,
Fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen Fred.van.Kempen(a)MicroWalt.NL
Microsoft MCSE+I/MCSE/MCSD Compaq ASE/ACT
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I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear
some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving classic
computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that they should
donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn
things.
A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted. He was
torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum. I didn't have a lot
of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would
get him an impressive tax deduction. I did some research about what it takes
to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and
time-consuming to be a viable option for me. I sent the following argument to
him:
> While I would love to establish a collection of these machines,
> I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean
> today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or
> to have some pretty decorations in my house. While it would
> certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to
> get something that I can learn with. I want to *run* these
> machines. I want to *explore* these machines. I want to *hack*
> on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be
> coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the
> *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these
> machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will
> educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one
> ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or
> keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's
> little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel
> about that!
What do you think about this?
(BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to)
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)ou.edu
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Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of
introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of
questions to ask :).
First, here is a little about myself and why I'm here. I'm 22 years old. I go
to school at the University of Oklahoma, majoring in CS, and work as an
embedded programmer. My religion, if one exists, consists of the many tenets
and folkloric tales of programming.
So here I am, 22; what am I doing asking about PDP-11s and their Unices? Well,
I'm hyperinterested in the history of computing, especially that history that
constitues the minicomputer era. I guess I arrived at this state by the
following path:
Birth -> TRS80 -> MSDOS/Windows -> Unix -> Folklore -> Obsession
The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 and
learn everything I can about it, lest all the remaining ones be usurped by
museums, to forever lie derelict behind glass walls where no one can ever play
with them, gain knowledge from them, or truly appreciate them again. I don't
want to build an enormous collection -- just one or two that I can keep in
working order. My purpose is intellectual exploration. I have to *experience*
what computing was like in my favorite era, and this is the only way, since
unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier.
Finding PDP-11 hardware, while somewhat difficult, is not the prime problem.
*What* hardware do I find? I can find out via the Internet the basics of what
hardware exists, but the information stops rather short of being complete. I
need the following questions answered:
* A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first choice) system with a
TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like?
* The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case
mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it
some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like?
* 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or
TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a
TE16 different from a TU16?
* I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need
a RK11-D controller for this, right?
* Can V7 fit on 3 to 4 RK05s?
* What range of PDP-11 BSD versions will fit comfortably on 3 to 4 RK05s?
* Look at the middle rack in the following picture. Are those RK05f drives?
http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/kepek/pdp11-70.jpg
* From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can
offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older
black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty.
I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :)
* What kind of controller would one of the above drives need?
* The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem
570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front
panel to put back on it?
Whew! I think that's all for the moment. All responses are appreciated.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)ou.edu
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Sat Mar 3 21:00:58 2001
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se>
To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu>
cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
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On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
> Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of
> introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of
> questions to ask :).
Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also point out
the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 fanatics, not just
the unix types. :-)
> * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first
> choice) system with a TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like?
First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a soldering iron
once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. Also, I hope you have a
large house, and *lots* of electricity...
The TE16 is an upright standing drive with vaccum colons. It's a normal
full height 19" cabinet.
> * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case
> mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it
> some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like?
The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the massbus on
one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on the other side.
It's a "small" box that resides in the lower part of the TE16 cabinet. You
normally won't ever look at it, except when it breakes.
> * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or
> TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a
> TE16 different from a TU16?
They don't differ.
> * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need
> a RK11-D controller for this, right?
I think each RK11-D can control up to eight drives.
> * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can
> offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older
> black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty.
> I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :)
If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives.
They fit 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty".
However, they *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the
floor, and they are *heavy*.
In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB.
All "newer" drives are the off-white that DEC adopted.
> * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need?
RA81: UDA-50
RP06: Massbus (RH70 in your case)
> * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem
> 570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front
> panel to put back on it?
Could be tricky...
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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>From "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> Sun Mar 4 03:06:16 2001
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Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:06:16 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu>
Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
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> > Hello there!
>
> Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also
> point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11
> fanatics, not just the unix types. :-)
Thanks for that.
> > * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70
>
> First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a
> soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards.
> Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity..
I'm not afraid of a little soldering. My current plan to ready my house for
the machine is as follows. First, I have a wood floor that's suspended above
the ground by various things in the crawlspace. I'll have to get down there
and add some extra bracing where the machine will be. I'll lay a solid slab of
strong wood on top of the floor to spread the weight out. Second, I'll have an
electrician install the necessary power circuit. My ballpark figures tell me
that I need capacity for 8-10kW.
My house is small, but big enough for the 11/70. In a year or so I will be
building a new house, complete with its own machine room.
> The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the
> massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on
> the other side.
I figured it might me something like that.
> If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives. They fit
> 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty". However, they
> *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor,
> and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB.
Ah, a washing machine. I don't have room for it now (well, not where the
machine will be), but I will in the new house. I've found a person that might
sell me a RA81 to use until then.
> > * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced
> > with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point. How hard would it
> > be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it?
>
> Could be tricky...
Hm. I'd better start looking now.
Thanks for your response. You have been extremely helpful.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)ou.edu
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>From "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> Sun Mar 4 03:22:10 2001
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Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
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This seems like the perfect opportunity to introduce myself : )
Thank you Jeffrey.
Lars Buitinck, 17 years old, student (high school, final year), UNIX
fanatic, living in the Netherlands, looking for a reasonable PDP-11
(ie., one that can run 2.11BSD). MrBill (the owner of pdp11.org) knew
where I could find an 11/73 and an 11/83 but both had to be shipped all
the way from the US, both only had one RL02 disk drive, and only one had
a tape drive.
So does anybody know where I can find a reasonably modern, moderately
sized 11, preferably from NL, DE or BE, with some reasonably large disks
(some 50-60 MB minimum, I guess)? A tape drive would be nice... unless I
can borrow one? I don't really care about the colour, as long as it
works ; )
PS.: FYI, I speak English (obviously) and Dutch (again, obviously), and
I understand French and German well enough, but please don't expect me
to mail in French or German.
"Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote:
>
> Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of
> introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of
> questions to ask :).
...
> The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11
Man, do I know that feeling
> unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier.
If you think you had bad luck, I was born 35 years too late. ; )
--
If I traveled to the end of the rainbow
As Dame Fortune did intend,
Murphy would be there to tell me
The pot's at the other end.
-- Bert Whitney
Lars J. Buitinck
Dear All,
I now have one of these but the tape hub locking mechanism is acting up. Has
anyone got a set of the maintenance docs for a TS05 that they can scan for me?
Regards
Robin
On 26 Feb, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock.
> With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as
> long as there are some interrupts happening.
Hmm? Why will it run with_out_ a clock?
>> OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-)))
>
> Fantastic!
The next adventure is un-tar-ing the source and build my own kernel...
--
tschüß,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
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>From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 13:24:22 2001
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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:24:22 +1100 (EST)
From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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> The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news
> is that cc still fails with the following error:
>
> fFatal error in /lib/c0
>
> The lowercase f appears, followed shortly by the rest of the line. I've
> tried the -c option to suppress linking, and still get this error. I
> don't get this error on the Supnik emulator.
'/lib/c0' is the first pass of the C compiler, after the preprocessor
has be run (the order is cc, c0, c1, c2 for the optimiser, and then 'as'
to produce the object file). I dimly recall that the various passes forked
by 'cc' didn't bother to catch signals, so any error just gives the
"Fatal error in ..." message. The '-c' would have no effect this early.
You could try the '-f' option, that uses a different compiler (with FP
emulation).
Assuming that you don't have a corrupted binary, or faulty processor/memory,
then is one obscure possibility. While a user program will not see any
difference between a 11/34 and 11/40 (except for floating point instructions),
the behaviour after a memory management fault IS different. The non ID space
processors (11/23/34/35/40/60) don't have a register to record the changes
in the general cpu registers after a fault, and it has to be calculated in
software. The 34 and 40 leave the registers in different states after a fault.
The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate
a fault because the stack needs to grow dynamically. The kernel extends the
stack (where automatic variables are allocated), and then attempts to
reexecute the instruction. In the case of a 34 using a standard m40.s,
it sometimes gets it wrong, and is very program and data dependent.
Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's?
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 13:54:49 2001
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Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
In-Reply-To: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden
at "Feb 28, 2001 02:24:22 pm"
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In article by John Holden:
> > The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news
> > is that cc still fails with the following error:
> > fFatal error in /lib/c0
>
> Assuming that you don't have a corrupted binary, or faulty processor/memory,
> then is one obscure possibility. While a user program will not see any
> difference between a 11/34 and 11/40 (except for floating point instructions),
> the behaviour after a memory management fault IS different. The non ID space
> processors (11/23/34/35/40/60) don't have a register to record the changes
> in the general cpu registers after a fault, and it has to be calculated in
> software. The 34 and 40 leave the registers in different states after a fault.
>
>The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack.This may generate
> a fault because the stack needs to grow dynamically. The kernel extends the
> stack (where automatic variables are allocated), and then attempts to
> reexecute the instruction. In the case of a 34 using a standard m40.s,
> it sometimes gets it wrong, and is very program and data dependent.
>
> Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's?
That comment made me go through and scan my old AUUGNs for some articles
written by Dave Horsfall [who is on this mailing list]. I found his
article on porting V6 to the 11/23, but not for a port to the 11/34.
However, at least two tar files in the UNIX Archive have an m34.s in them:
Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix_80_delaware.gz:
delaware/maryland/os40/m34.s
Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix_80_delaware.gz:m34.s:
toronto/case/sys/conf/m34.s
The first appears to be modifications to V6, I haven't checked the latter
yet. It may be something worth pursuing.
Warren
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Wed Feb 28 13:53:22 2001
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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:53:22 +1100 (EST)
From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
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To: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, John Holden wrote:
> The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate
[...]
> Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's?
I have actual code on how we handled this in those days; who wants it?
--
Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490
Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:00:30 2001
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?
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Horsfall at "Feb 28, 2001 02:53:22 pm"
To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:00:30 +1100 (EST)
CC: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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In article by Dave Horsfall:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, John Holden wrote:
> > The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate
> [...]
> > Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's?
> I have actual code on how we handled this in those days; who wants it?
Mail it to me and I'll drop it in the archive somewhere.
Thanks Dave!
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:15:34 2001
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: [pups] V6 or V6 patches for 11/34
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Horsfall at "Feb 28, 2001 03:02:28 pm"
To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:34 +1100 (EST)
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In article by Dave Horsfall:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote:
> > Mail it to me and I'll drop it in the archive somewhere.
> As attached... I see it actually came from ChemEng. It's for the 11/60,
> but has the 11/34 stuff in there as well.
>
> PS: I'm sure I did a port to the 11/34 :-)
I have moved the 11/34 patches into the UNIX Archive at
PDP-11/Bug_Fixes/V7_on11-34
They look like V7 patches though, so they may not be readily
usable on a V6 system. Those other files I mentioned may be
better. Your mileage may vary :-)
Dave, did you write an AUUGN paper for an 11/34 port, and what year
so I can go back and have another look.
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>From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:15:46 2001
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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:46 +1100 (EST)
From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>
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To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.
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>John Holden wrote:
>> You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line
>> break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations.
>> Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a
>> serial break as the power goes down.
>
>On my /53+ running 2.11, it's enough to kick in ODT.. Very anoying, really.
>Is there any way to disable this functionality, save rewiring the backplane?
You can usually disable the HALT on break feature. When the console is on
a separate serial card :-
DEC DLV11-E or F Remove jumper on wire-wrap pin H
DEC DLV11-J wire-wrap pins X-B enables boot on break
wire-wrap pins X-H enable halt (ODT) on break
nothing on X disables both
Webster WQDHV switch 4 at J9 OFF to ignore break.
For processor cards with serial ports, I only have a manual for 11/23+. DEC
is pretty consistent, so there should be options on 11/53 and latter 11/73's.
11/23+ KDF11-B? Remove jumper from J5-J4 and connect J3-J4
The jumpers aren't marked on the PCB, so looking
at the board with the Qbus fingers at the bottom,
handles at the top, there is a vertical row of
three jumpers on the right hand side of the board.
towards the bottom. Top to bottom is J5, J4 and J3.
If anybody has manuals for 11/53+ and the quad slot 11/73's and can send me
the details, I'll collate the information, and add it to my web page at :-
http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/
The 11/53+ I have does have lots of jumpers, but no numbers or letters beside
them.
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Wed Feb 28 15:59:41 2001
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Subject: [pups] Re: V6 or V6 patches for 11/34
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On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Dave, did you write an AUUGN paper for an 11/34 port, and what year
> so I can go back and have another look.
Vol 1 No 6. "Implementing UNIX on a PDP-11/34" (sub-titled: "What does
the `F' in "RK05-F" really stand for ?").
I still have the nroff source available... It's about 1983-ish.
--
Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490
Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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