TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

6 participants
6479 discussions

by Jay Jaeger

That RK05 image boots on an 11/34A just fine. (I own one. Trust me. It just works. No fiddling required). Perhaps you have a plain 11/34, and perhaps there is some difference that matters. But they should both have MMU, but perhaps the MMU in the 34A is different than a 34 in some odd way. Do you have floating point? Maybe that's the problem. You could always try mini-unix... 8-) That should run (it ran on an 11/20). Jay Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren - --- --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA61690 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:48:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA61686 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:48:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:35:38 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id D0A2B493F87E11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:35:37 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7DDBA8.3C69A521(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:46:00 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 14D76A5B-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Greetings, I have a PDP-11/73 on which I have installed 2.11 BSD from the PUPS archives. I have a few hardware configurations questions that I hope someone might be able to help me with. The memory board that I have was made by Clearpoint Inc. The board has the markings Q-RAM 44B REV. B and GSB-2. Unfortunately, I have no documentation for the board. The board originally had 1 MB installed, and I added another 1 MB of chips. The extra chips were not recognized though. Does anyone have information on the jumper settings for this board? I have two MSCP controllers installed. One is a CMD CQD-220/M SCSI controller with one drive attached, CSR is the first MSCP controller, and unit is set to 0. The second is an RQDX3 with an RX50 attached. It is set with CSR at the second MSCP controller address. The jumpers are set for unit 1. The result is that I have a SCSI drive at DU0 and the RX50's at DU4 and DU5 during boot. DU0 is ra0 and DU4 is ra12 in 2.11 BSD. If I change the jumpers on RQDX3 to unit 2, I boot at DU8, the first RX50, but I can no longer access the floppies from 2.11 BSD. Looking at the sources, it seems that the drive number is limited to 0-7, but the controller seems to want unit number 8. What am I missing? This seems to occur both in the kernel and in the standalone installation system. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA62190 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:01:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Feb 5 09:45:33 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA62186 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:01:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f14NjXN00172 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:45:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:45:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102042345.f14NjXN00172(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> > The memory board that I have was made by Clearpoint Inc. The board 'fraid I can't be of help with the memory board - that's not my area of expertise. > I have two MSCP controllers installed. One is a CMD CQD-220/M SCSI Ah, but I can help with getting the dual MSCP controller question. My 11/73 is similar - it has an Emulex UC08 and the original RQDX3 (with an RD54 and a RX03). > DU0 is ra0 and DU4 is ra12 in 2.11 BSD. If I change the jumpers on > RQDX3 to unit 2, I boot at DU8, the first RX50, but I can no longer > access the floppies from 2.11 BSD. Looking at the sources, it seems > that the drive number is limited to 0-7, but the controller seems to > want unit number 8. What am I missing? This seems to occur both in > the kernel and in the standalone installation system. Ignore anything you might know about DU numbers ;) 2.11 numbers the drives 0 thru 7 on _each_ controller. Thus 'ra0' thru 'ra7' are on the first controller, 'ra8' thru 'ra15' on the second controller and so on. There is a maximum of 4 controllers supported (two bits in the minor device number). The standalone I/O system uses device names of the form: dev(ctlr, unit, part) where 'ctlr' is the controller number (0 thru 3), the 'unit' number is 0 thru 7 and the 'part' is the partition number (0 thru 7). So, to access the first drive on the second controller from a standalone program the name would be: ra(1,0,0) you probably will be prompted for the CSR since 'boot' and friends only know about the first controller's address. Once the kernel is loaded you access drives on the 2nd controller with device names such as /dev/ra8a, /dev/ra9a, and so on. The "sparse" numbering was chosen (eons and eons ago) to make the MSCP disks look more like the traditional disc controllers which allowed for 8 drives per controller. In my /etc/dtab file I have: ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 From the console ODT prompt (I've an older MXV11 boot set up) I use "172150 du 0" to boot from the SCSI disk attached to the UC08. When the system is up the RD54 (which is unit 0 on the other MSCP controller) is accessed as 'ra8' (and the RX03 which is unit 1 accessed as 'ra9'). It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA62645 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:52:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 11:49:50 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA62637 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:52:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:39:27 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 8253E300FAEF11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:39:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7E06BE.F5687560(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:49:50 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52" X-SLUIDL: 14D76C4B-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Hi - > <snip> What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of what should happen, but my experience is different. > > In my /etc/dtab file I have: > > ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 My /etc/dtab is: ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have show 160334. On booting the 11/73 and starting 2.11 BSD the following occurs: DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were part of the installation tape, including icheck. ------------ Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU8 Trying DU8 Starting system from DU8 .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 .ra(1,0,0) !online .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error : not found : not found # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error # > > It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is uncooperative. If I set the RQDX3 for unit 0, I cannot boot from the second controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? ... OK, I moved the RQDX3 to unit 0, and the boot floppy to the second drive. The boot is then: -------------- Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU1 Trying DU1 Starting system from DU1 .83Boot from ra(1,1,0) at 0160334 .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra9: RX50 size=800 # ls /mnt/rx0 boot icheck restor unix disklabel mkfs rx50toroot # > Steven Schultz > sms(a)to.gd-es.com Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3A7E052A.D2F195E1(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:43:06 -0500 From: Chuck Dickman <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 References: <200102042345.f14NjXN00172(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Hi - > <snip> What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of what should happen, but my experience is different. > > In my /etc/dtab file I have: > > ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 My /etc/dtab is: ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have show 160334. On booting the 11/73 and starting 2.11 BSD the following occurs: DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were part of the installation tape, including icheck. ------------ Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU8 Trying DU8 Starting system from DU8 .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 .ra(1,0,0) !online .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error : not found : not found # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error # > > It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is uncooperative. If I set the RQDX3 for unit 0, I cannot boot from the second controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? ... OK, I moved the RQDX3 to unit 0, and the boot floppy to the second drive. The boot is then: -------------- Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU1 Trying DU1 Starting system from DU1 .83Boot from ra(1,1,0) at 0160334 .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra9: RX50 size=800 # ls /mnt/rx0 boot icheck restor unix disklabel mkfs rx50toroot # > Steven Schultz > sms(a)to.gd-es.com Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52-- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA62886 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:46:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Chuck Dickman <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 11:43:06 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA62882 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:46:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f152Zs901247; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:35:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102050235.f152Zs901247(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: chd(a)nktelco.net, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> > What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of > what should happen, but my experience is different. I'm wondering if the console/boot firmware might not be the cause of some of the confusion. > My /etc/dtab is: > > ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp Looks good. With 2.11 you can, if you want, leave the interrupt vector as 0, the kernel will allocate an available vector and tell the MSCP controller what vector to use. > The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid > MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have > show 160334. As long as it doesn't conflict with anything else on the system it's valid ;-) The system came with the RQDX3 and I worked with the RD54 for a while before adding the UC08 - when I added the UC08 I just picked the next free CSR which happened to be 172154. > DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The > floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were > part of the installation tape, including icheck. > > ------------ > .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 > .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck It probably doesn't hurt anything but I would leave off the '/' > .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 > .ra(1,0,0) !online op=89 is the "ONLINE" command and a status of 3 means the unit didn't go 'online'. That is very strange since 'boot' was obviously loaded from the drive/controller. What I am wondering now is: does the boot monitor pass 0 or 8 thru as the unit number? If it's expecting 8 or 9 then that might be the problem because boot and the 2.11 kernel only deal with 0 thru 7 > .: ra(0,0,0)/unix > .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 > . > hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. > ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. > ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached > ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached Ok, that looks encouraging. > # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 > ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 > ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 > /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error > : not found > : not found > # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 > ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 > /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error Same as before - the "online" command is failing for reason(s) unknown as yet. > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, > but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am > booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered I boot from the second controller all the time. If I weren't so lazy (and the BA23 so narrow and hard to work in ;)) I'd have swapped the UC08 and RQDX3 around a long time ago. As it is now I have to hit ^C during the POST and at the BOOT> prompt I enter "172154 DU 0" to boot from the second controller. > for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is Yes, if given a choice (and I don't know how this is done) all the controllers need to start from 0. If the "base unit" of a controller is 8 then I think the problem is that the controller is expecting values such as 8, 9, etc in the 'mscp_unit' part of the MSCP packet. That would explain the failure to "online unit 0" - the controller is expecting to be told "online unit 8". > controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the > controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device > must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? Yes. I think the 'restriction' in this case is 2.11 - it doesn't know how to deal with units other than 0 thru 7. > Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device > must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD > wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Quite welcome! The boot monitor can load anything, but once 'boot' (or the kernel) is loaded they do not know how to deal with unit=8. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA63034 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 13:20:27 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA63030 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:10:04 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 8253E3E2FAEF11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> plus 1 more; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:10:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7E1BFB.98767635(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:20:27 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 References: <200102050235.f152Zs901247(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 14D76D51-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > > "Chuck Dickman" wrote: > > > > Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device > > must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD > > wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. > > Quite welcome! The boot monitor can load anything, but once 'boot' > (or the kernel) is loaded they do not know how to deal with unit=8. I think that was what I was trying to say, but you said it better. Thanks. > > Steven Schultz > sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Now if someone could help be double my memory. :-) Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA65456 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:39:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mon Feb 5 22:37:53 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA65452 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:39:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 3AC547F18; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:37:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:37:53 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? Message-ID: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi. A friendly user pointed me to this obvious error: (part of a typescript, an FTP session to my PDP, running 2.11BSD) ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> ls -la foobar.c -rw-r--r-- 1 martijnb users 106 Jan 15 15:25 foobar.c ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> quote mdtm foobar.c 191010115144152 (mdtm should return the datestamp, in the form yyyymmddhhmm. ftpd thinks that it is 19101, and chops off the last digit of the filedate..) Things go wrong when you try to get an allready existing file: ncftp /usr/home/martijnb > get foobar.c The local file "foobar.c" already exists. Local: 133 bytes, dated Mon Feb 5 13:25:59 2001. Remote: 133 bytes, dated Thu Oct 13 04:44:15 1910. [O]verwrite? [A]ppend to? [S]kip? [N]ew Name? > Hmm. I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA65628 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:14:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Mon Feb 5 23:09:49 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA65624 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:14:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f15D9on12003 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:09:50 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fgh.au.geac.com: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:09:49 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? In-Reply-To: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102052354420.5033-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Martijn van Buul wrote: > ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> quote mdtm foobar.c > 191010115144152 > > (mdtm should return the datestamp, in the form yyyymmddhhmm. ftpd > thinks that it is 19101, and chops off the last digit of the filedate..) Yep, that's a sure sign, which (cough, cough) I have personally seen on some (cough, cough) Y2K-compliant software supported by (cough, cough) A Large Software Company. No, I wasn't personally responsible for that code :-) > I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) Beware of the Y2K.1 bug :-( Synopsis: In order to overcome the Y2K bug, we implement a quick fix, because we are too lazy to do it properly: IF last two digits == '00' THEN make first two digits == '20'. // Because we're gonna retire this stuff after 2000. So what happens in 2001? Well, you get 1901, 19101, etc. Sigh... Isn't that fix what got us into trouble in the first place? Disclaimer: None of Geac software exhibited the Y2K.1 bug, since we tested it thoroughly, for years 2000, 2001, etc: I make no comment on Y2K. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA65695 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:29:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mon Feb 5 23:27:46 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA65691 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:29:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 8FD117F18; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:27:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:27:46 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? Message-ID: <20010205142746.A24731(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl>; from pino(a)dohd.org on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 01:37:53PM +0100 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Martijn van Buul wrote: > I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) Done. A diff for /usr/src/libexec/ftpd/ftpcmd.y: 461,463c461,464 < "19%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", < t->tm_year, t->tm_mon+1, t->tm_mday, < t->tm_hour, t->tm_min, t->tm_sec); --- > "%04d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", > t->tm_year+1900, t->tm_mon+1, > t->tm_mday, t->tm_hour, t->tm_min, > t->tm_sec); Miraculously, this *reduces* the size of the binary by a whopping two bytes ;) -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA65865 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:04:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Mon Feb 5 23:50:37 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA65861 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:04:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f15DocZ18079 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:50:38 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fgh.au.geac.com: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:50:37 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? In-Reply-To: <20010205142746.A24731(a)mud.stack.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102060048000.5033-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Martijn van Buul wrote: > < "19%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", > < t->tm_year, t->tm_mon+1, t->tm_mday, Dead giveaway... > Miraculously, this *reduces* the size of the binary by a whopping two > bytes ;) Well, we can find a job for you in writing PDP-11 bootstraps :-) -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA66602 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 03:01:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by Per Andersson

On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Richard Donkin wrote: > "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > ... > > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not > > tried it with linux. > > Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were > using? (Anyone > else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). /Per Andersson Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA54943 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:25:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Sun Feb 4 08:23:08 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA54939 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:25:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA54493 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA06862 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:23:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Per Andersson wrote: > > This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm > running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main Where can I find this Begemot P11 Emulator?? I visited the Begemot site but the link to products doesn't appear to work. I have tried E11 (demo version) and the Supnil Emulator, but have never heard of this one til now. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55257 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:48:52 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sun Feb 4 09:45:42 2001 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55253 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:48:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14PCOP-000PL9-0V; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:46:58 +0000 Message-ID: <e+SmvUAmgJf6Ew48(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:45:42 +0000 To: Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> Cc: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <3A7BD55D.B64B221B(a)bigfoot.com> <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers .se>, Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> writes > > >On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Richard Donkin wrote: > >> "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: >> ... >> > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not >> > tried it with linux. >> >> Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were >> using? (Anyone >> else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) > >This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm >running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main >problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, >at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). > > > /Per Andersson > > Hi, Harti Brandt, the guy who wrote this package is shortly (I hope :-)) going to release a new version that includes a clock patch that Steve Schultz dreamt up. Regards Robin Currently running P11 on linux ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55275 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:50:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sun Feb 4 09:47:06 2001 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55271 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:50:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14PCPh-000PMw-0V; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:48:18 +0000 Message-ID: <S+VlfhA6hJf6EwZk(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:47:06 +0000 To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.ed u>, Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> writes >On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Per Andersson wrote: > >> >> This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm >> running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main > >Where can I find this Begemot P11 Emulator?? I visited the Begemot site >but the link to products doesn't appear to work. I have tried E11 (demo >version) and the Supnil Emulator, but have never heard of this one til now. > >bill > There is an oldish version on the pups archive. I believe that harti is going to release a newer version soon. regards Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA55355 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:05:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Feb 4 10:03:00 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA55351 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:05:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f14030W16555 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:03:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:03:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102040003.f14030W16555(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> > > This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm > running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main > problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, > at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). The bug is an arithmetic overflow in the clock computations. After about 24 days (with 60Hz power in the US) the number of ticks the virtual machine has been up overflows 32 bits and time behaves very strange. Apply the patch below to 'device.c' and the problem goes away - it did for me. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com --- device.c.dist Sat Mar 4 00:03:28 2000 +++ device.c Fri Sep 29 23:59:10 2000 @@ -203,6 +203,7 @@ int secs; int newrate, diff; int newdir; + double dnow, dstart; for(t = timeouts; t < &timeouts[ntimeouts]; t++) if(t->time && --t->curr == 0) { @@ -223,9 +224,9 @@ * to the number we have elapsed */ gettimeofday(&tv, NULL); - secs = ((1000 * tv.tv_sec + tv.tv_usec/1000) - - (1000 * timer.start.tv_sec + timer.start.tv_usec/1000)) - / 1000; + dstart = 1000.0 * timer.start.tv_sec + timer.start.tv_usec/1000.0; + dnow = 1000.0 * tv.tv_sec + tv.tv_usec/1000.0; + secs = (dnow - dstart) / 1000.0; newrate = 1000000 / clock_rate; Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA55652 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:55:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Sun Feb 4 10:50:25 2001 Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA55648 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:55:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cube1(a)home.com) Received: from ddjay.home.com ([65.3.254.22]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010204005319.ULPW13648.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com(a)ddjay.home.com>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:53:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010203184258.00bda9f0@cirithi> X-Sender: cube1@cirithi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 18:50:25 -0600 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Subject: [pups] V6 and PDP-11/34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I *have* *run* the standard Unix V6 distribution on my PDP 11/34. Works just fine. I also compared my V6 distribution image with the one on PUPS (years ago) and they matched just fine. Load the pack from the RK05 image after the 100 (IIRC) block tape to disk loader program [how you get it there is another issue, of course... 8-)], boot up, type rkunix at the "@" and away you go. I did not use the tape to disk program on the tape image, however -- I didn't have a tape drive at the time IIRC. I have a standalone program that used a parallel port on my PC and a DR11 on my PDP-11 to write it, IIRC, but I might have used XMODEM and a serial port -- its been a lonnnng time since I did it. Jay Jaeger Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA56873 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:46:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA56869 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:46:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f146dSx18575 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:39:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:39:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102040639.f146dSx18575(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> > Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were > using? (Anyone else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) Gosh, it was quite a while ago that I tried P11 on a FreeBSD system. It was pre-4.0 as I remember - perhaps 3.5 or 3.6 > Thanks very much for the config file, that should make life a lot > easier... And Quite welcome! Getting rid of the M4 macros and distilling the config file down to the basics makes it much easier to see what is going on. Coming up with that first config file was a day or so of fun ;) > thanks for all your efforts in updating 2.11BSD - very impressive to get > a full fledged BSD system on a PDP-11! You're welcome - it's been a lot of fun over the years. The past couple years development has slowed down, combination of too many other projects and not a lot of room left to stuff new features in ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com

24 years, 2 months

Re: [pups] makedepend

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi Robin - > From: robin.birch(a)postoffice.co.uk > > I know that this isn't to do with a pdp or ancient unix but does anyone know > where I can find the sources for makedepend ? It's installed in /usr/src/X11/xc/config/makedepend on the systems I have looked on. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA51838 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:53:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Sat Feb 3 19:51:28 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA51834 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:53:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D68A17576; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 09:51:37 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7BD4A0.D58E2F80(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:51:28 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com> <20010201094448.D70596(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > > The Begemot emulator was written on BSD, so you'll probably find it > easier to use under FreeBSD. > > > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used > > with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot > > sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. > > *sigh* I used to, and it worked well. A number of changes in FreeBSD > have rendered the emulator non-functional, and I haven't had time to > find out what's wrong. I'll take a look and see if I can see anything > obvious, but it might take me a while. Thanks - do you know what FreeBSD version it last worked on? Also, which version of P11 you are using? I'm not doing anything significant with the FreeBSD box (it's a virtual machine under VMware) so re-installing is not a problem. Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA51862 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:56:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Sat Feb 3 19:54:37 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA51858 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:56:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7720F1755A for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 09:54:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7BD55D.B64B221B(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:54:37 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <200101312317.f0VNHsd17441(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: ... > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not > tried it with linux. Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were using? (Anyone else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) Thanks very much for the config file, that should make life a lot easier... And thanks for all your efforts in updating 2.11BSD - very impressive to get a full fledged BSD system on a PDP-11! Cheers Richard

24 years, 2 months

[pups] makedepend

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Ok, I know that this isn't to do with a pdp or ancient unix but does anyone know where I can find the sources for makedepend ? REgards Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA47580 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:00:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Sat Feb 3 03:03:59 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA47576 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:00:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:02:45 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <111FYTTA>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:04:09 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C138A34(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:03:59 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk After seeing all the mail of success with the Supnik emulator, I found a compiled copy and tried that -- and got to a login: prompt! That's with the image you sent me -- many thanks. I'm going to have to learn more about the Supnik emulator now; in particular, I need to understand how to set it for a given processor emulation, so that once I rebuild the system to run on a '34 (which is supposed to be feasible), I can be reasonably sure it will work once it's ported over to the real machine. NOTE: neither simulator will run in a DOS box on Windows 2000. E11 starts up, but has problem accessing files (you can't MOUNT a file as a device). Supnik just won't go at all. I've been running my emulator on a DOS machine (actually, an old 486 laptop; hey guys, I have a laptop PDP-11!). Cheers -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:20 AM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently damaged: gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc. I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file). I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^) -- Ken

24 years, 2 months

Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?

by Bill Mayhew

This is a real stretch for my brain, but I seem to recall that the ";" that appeared in ";login:" in the 1970s was sort-of "bleed-through" from an escape sequence that was intended to do cursor positioning and/or screen-clearing on some terminals... or something like that... therefore its absence would not necessarily be significant on different hardware. -Bill Mayhew, UNIX mangler emeritus > From: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > [mailto:owner-pups@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au]On Behalf Of Carl Lowenstein > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:35 PM > To: iking(a)microsoft.com > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > From iking(a)microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 15:27 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, > > Carl Lowenstein > > <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 > > > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff > at > > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 > baud) > > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Well, as some response to this challenge "get an image to run in an > emulator", > I visited Bob Supnik's Computer History Simulation Project web page > > <www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/> > > and followed the links to the sources for SIMH v2.5a and to the Unix V6 > disk images. > > I read the documentation file "simh_doc.txt", and compiled the > simulator. Then I read "simh_swre.txt", unpacked the V6 images, ran > the simulator and attached the three RK05 images to it, and booted > RK0. All according to the instructions. > > I got the bootstrap prompt "@" to which I typed "unix" and it came up > with a "login:" prompt, to which I could log in as root, and do things. > > It's not quite the same V6 image that I remember from the olden days of > loading onto an 11/40 from magtape. The login prompt seems not to be > ";login:" as we still see on the Usenix magazine. dmr's account seems > to have vanished but ken's is still there. And that's how I spent a > few hours last night. > > In case it matters, the underlying hardware/software platform is an AMD > K6-3 running Mandrake 7.1 Linux. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA40296 for pups-liszt; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:24:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Fri Feb 2 10:22:10 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA40289 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:24:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11849; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:22:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:22:10 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200102020022.QAA11849(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: mayhew(a)altavista.com Subject: Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > From mayhew(a)altavista.com Thu Feb 1 14:31 PST 2001 > Date: 1 Feb 2001 14:30:43 -0800 > X-Sent: 1 Feb 2001 22:30:43 GMT > To: cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > From: Bill Mayhew <mayhew(a)altavista.com> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > This is a real stretch for my brain, but I seem to recall that the > ";" that appeared in ";login:" in the 1970s was sort-of "bleed-through" > from an escape sequence that was intended to do cursor positioning > and/or screen-clearing on some terminals... or something like that... > therefore its absence would not necessarily be significant on different > hardware. Oh, yes. I was just hiding my previous knowledge. The ";" and ":" in the login prompt were the visible part of escape sequences to control a Teletype KSR37. They didn't do anything useful on a VT05 but did show up on the screen. Unix Sixth Edition predates the common availability of even the dumbest CRT terminals. There are still a lot of TTY37 control codes hanging around in nroff output. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA43985 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 01:17:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

I have the begemot simulator running very effectively on Linux, although I have not used the emulated ethernet connection. If anyone knows how to set this up on linux then I would welcome some help. I must say that although p11 takes quite a bit of setting up it is well worth the trouble. Regards Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA38448 for pups-liszt; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:37:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Fri Feb 2 03:35:13 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA38444 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:36:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05794; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:35:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:35:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200102011735.JAA05794(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: iking(a)microsoft.com Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From iking(a)microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 15:27 PST 2001 > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, > Carl Lowenstein > <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> Well, as some response to this challenge "get an image to run in an emulator", I visited Bob Supnik's Computer History Simulation Project web page <www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/> and followed the links to the sources for SIMH v2.5a and to the Unix V6 disk images. I read the documentation file "simh_doc.txt", and compiled the simulator. Then I read "simh_swre.txt", unpacked the V6 images, ran the simulator and attached the three RK05 images to it, and booted RK0. All according to the instructions. I got the bootstrap prompt "@" to which I typed "unix" and it came up with a "login:" prompt, to which I could log in as root, and do things. It's not quite the same V6 image that I remember from the olden days of loading onto an 11/40 from magtape. The login prompt seems not to be ";login:" as we still see on the Usenix magazine. dmr's account seems to have vanished but ken's is still there. And that's how I spent a few hours last night. In case it matters, the underlying hardware/software platform is an AMD K6-3 running Mandrake 7.1 Linux. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

24 years, 3 months

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by Richard Donkin

I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the question is what's easier to set up for networking. Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. Cheers, Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA32905 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Thu Feb 1 08:42:02 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32901 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:43:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372D317941 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:24 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7894BA.370723F0(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:02 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] File exchange with Supnik sim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I've tried the suggestions for getting files in and out of the Supnik sim, in particular using rl0 mapped to x.tar, and 'tar cvf /dev/rrl0a /etc/hosts'. However, tar complains: 'tar: tape write error: Read-only file system'. The disklabel for rl0 looks like: # /dev/rrl0a: type: old DEC disk: label: flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 20 tracks/cylinder: 2 sectors/cylinder: 40 cylinders: 0 rpm: 0 interleave: 0 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 1 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize] a: 10240 0 2.11BSD 1024 1024 # (Cyl. 0 - 255) cylinders/unit 0 Warning, revolutions/minute 0 boot block size 0 super block size 0 partition a: extends past end of unit 0 10240 0 Presumably I need to create a valid disklabel, but it would be good to have some advice on what a valid one would look like. I've also tried the same sort of thing with 'tar cvbBf 20 /dev/rmt0 /etc/hosts', and something like a tar file is produced - however, GNU tar on Linux and FreeBSD 4.2 tar can't read this, saying 'this doesn't look like a tar file'. Is there some trick to getting this to work, and am I better off using rl0 or rmt0? Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33243 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu Feb 1 09:14:49 2001 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33239 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 172826AC9E; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: 2.11BSD networking on simulator Message-ID: <20010201094448.D70596(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com>; from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:28:44PM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Your message contained alternate long and short lines On Wednesday, 31 January 2001 at 22:28:44 +0000, Richard Donkin wrote: > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to > get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so > maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, > is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm > more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the > question is what's easier to set up for networking. The Begemot emulator was written on BSD, so you'll probably find it easier to use under FreeBSD. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used > with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot > sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. *sigh* I used to, and it worked well. A number of changes in FreeBSD have rendered the emulator non-functional, and I haven't had time to find out what's wrong. I'll take a look and see if I can see anything obvious, but it might take me a while. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33329 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Feb 1 09:17:54 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33322 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f0VNHsd17441 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200101312317.f0VNHsd17441(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it > networked. It can not be done except perhaps with a SL/IP link. The Supnik simulator does not have an emulated ethernet device. > Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as > the host I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not tried it with linux. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with > 2.11BSD? If so, Quite a few folks have it running. > could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more > complex to set up than Supnik. Yes, it is quite a bit more complex (cryptic) to set up. Here's what I use to run P11 with. If you strip out all of the macro preprocessing stuff the config file is much more readable and not nearly as cryptic as before. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com ------------------ set clock_rate 60 ctrl rk 017777400 0220 5 4000 end ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000 end ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000 dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999 dev 1 ./junk 1999 end ctrl kl dev 017777560 060 064 4 tty_net -7 -t 10000 dev 017776500 0300 0304 4 tty_net -7 -t 10001 end ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot end ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4 end ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5 # dev 0 /tmp/foo end ctrl qna 017774440 5 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0xf8:0x7a qna.rom dev epp_tun tun0 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x00 end # The toy clock. # ctrl toy 017777526 end Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA33890 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Thu Feb 1 11:37:29 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA33886 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f111bTR01279; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A78BDD9.995B3F42(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101302330.PAA29420(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > > > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > > That's the problem. > > Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does > not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with > MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. > > ... When I looked last night at the machine assist (mch.s) for Ultrix-11/3.1 source, all I could easily find was consistent with this, contained in the V6 start document: The main difference between an 11/40 and an 11/45 (or 11/70) system is that in the former instruction restart after a segmentation violation caused by overflowing a user stack must be handled by software, while in the latter machines there is hardware help. which in more detail means, if I understand right, there is no SSR2 register in the MMU so the kernel code needs to disassemble the instruction to backup over it for restarting as per above. The Ultrix mch.s file has code that does this (quite a lot) and I noticed a few cases that checked it the cputype is 34. Cheers, -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA35763 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:11:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote: > Check the UNIX Heritage Society at > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you > can get it for the Vax. For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/ -- Michael Sokolov Public Service Agent International Engineering and Science Task Force 1351 VINE AVE APT 27 Phone: +1-714-738-5409 FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA (home office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19895 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 30 14:25:17 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19891 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0U4PIO32651 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver) In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html for details. At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image: Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts Tape records are: 0 tinyboot 1 copy 2 root.img Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open E11>show cpu Emulation: PDP-11/34a, FP11A NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET, NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B, NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD, NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM, NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP Host: Cyrix 486, NPX E11>g 70000 Opened tinyboot rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF 40tinyboot from virtual tape server Load tape record: 1 Opened copy rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy Infile: vt(0,0,2) Outfile: rk(0,0,0) Opened root.img rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 100K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19994 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 30 14:43:34 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19990 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0U4hYh32768 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101300443.f0U4hYh32768(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>, who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21488 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Tue Jan 30 17:55:19 2001 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21484 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D518F81EE for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:54:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A767367.3B2FDC99(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:55:19 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi, I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows: set cpu 22b set cpu 2048K at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown boot rp While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. The makefile is: date2: date2.c cc -o date2 -c date2.c - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet as the simulator is not networked)? Or do I need to provide more memory? Some other info: # uname -a 2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON PDP11 By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the updated date2.c program. Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11! Cheers, Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22856 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Wed Jan 31 01:26:10 2001 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22852 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14Ncgp-0009DZ-0A; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:27:28 +0000 Message-ID: <NatiWLAS0td6Ewpf(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:10 +0000 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver References: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY(a)ruffnready.co.uk> <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes >In article by Robin Birch: >> Warren, >> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a >> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You >> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more >> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be >> universal across all PDP11s. >> >> Robin > >I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) >I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. > >If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial >line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate >to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? > > Warren Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC system had installed. The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single driver. Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA23022 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Jan 30 17:19:44 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA23018 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:18:30 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RC1PP1>; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:41 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB0D(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. (I even have some original shipping boxes.) BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my 11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can use it all in a "mapped" configuration. Also, if I am going to transfer a disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of Warren's VTServer program. TIA -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>, who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23100 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> Wed Jan 31 02:04:16 2001 Received: from scapa.cs.ualberta.ca (root(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca [129.128.4.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23096 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca) Received: (from localhost user: 'mark' uid#150 fake: goodfare.cs.ualberta.ca) by scapa.cs.ualberta.ca id <S433530AbRA3QEQ>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99(a)bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30, 2001 07:55:19 am" From: Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST) CC: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > The makefile is: > > date2: date2.c > cc -o date2 -c date2.c Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program and not produce an executable. > > - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way > -- Dr. Mark Green mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23775 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Wed Jan 31 04:20:58 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23771 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24283 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > onto his real disk. > > Many thanks all! > > Warren > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23853 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Wed Jan 31 04:30:14 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23848 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UIUER28642; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A770836.5E42CF2B(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > >

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18661 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Jan 30 09:19:45 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA18657 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:18:44 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RCCVFR>; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:55 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB07(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca'" <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the pseudo-device. I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory). The input silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has to be handled pretty carefully. -- isk -----Original Message----- From: norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19302 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:59:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Tue Jan 30 11:56:50 2001 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19298 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:58:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 1488F6AC9D; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: nanduri shankar <n_shankar_2001(a)yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-doc(a)freebsd.org, UNIX Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation Message-ID: <20010130122650.D48490(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail(a)web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010129184128.50518.qmail(a)web9007.mail.yahoo.com>; from n_shankar_2001(a)yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:41:28AM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote: > hello sir/madam, > i want to know the information about > the bsd 4.3 for vax machines . > let u provide me documentation regarding this topic. > iam waiting for your earliest reply. The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with Vaxen. Check the UNIX Heritage Society at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you can get it for the Vax. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19420 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:24:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Warren Toomey

In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18242 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:14:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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