TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

8 participants
6480 discussions

by Jeffrey S. Sharp

I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving classic computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that they should donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn things. A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted. He was torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum. I didn't have a lot of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would get him an impressive tax deduction. I did some research about what it takes to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and time-consuming to be a viable option for me. I sent the following argument to him: > While I would love to establish a collection of these machines, > I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean > today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or > to have some pretty decorations in my house. While it would > certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to > get something that I can learn with. I want to *run* these > machines. I want to *explore* these machines. I want to *hack* > on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be > coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the > *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will > educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or > keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel > about that! What do you think about this? (BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

24 years, 1 month

[pups] Introducing myself (long)

by Jeffrey S. Sharp

Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of questions to ask :). First, here is a little about myself and why I'm here. I'm 22 years old. I go to school at the University of Oklahoma, majoring in CS, and work as an embedded programmer. My religion, if one exists, consists of the many tenets and folkloric tales of programming. So here I am, 22; what am I doing asking about PDP-11s and their Unices? Well, I'm hyperinterested in the history of computing, especially that history that constitues the minicomputer era. I guess I arrived at this state by the following path: Birth -> TRS80 -> MSDOS/Windows -> Unix -> Folklore -> Obsession The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 and learn everything I can about it, lest all the remaining ones be usurped by museums, to forever lie derelict behind glass walls where no one can ever play with them, gain knowledge from them, or truly appreciate them again. I don't want to build an enormous collection -- just one or two that I can keep in working order. My purpose is intellectual exploration. I have to *experience* what computing was like in my favorite era, and this is the only way, since unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier. Finding PDP-11 hardware, while somewhat difficult, is not the prime problem. *What* hardware do I find? I can find out via the Internet the basics of what hardware exists, but the information stops rather short of being complete. I need the following questions answered: * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first choice) system with a TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like? * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like? * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a TE16 different from a TU16? * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need a RK11-D controller for this, right? * Can V7 fit on 3 to 4 RK05s? * What range of PDP-11 BSD versions will fit comfortably on 3 to 4 RK05s? * Look at the middle rack in the following picture. Are those RK05f drives? http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/kepek/pdp11-70.jpg * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty. I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :) * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need? * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it? Whew! I think that's all for the moment. All responses are appreciated. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA97068 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:05:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Sat Mar 3 21:00:58 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:0@Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA97064 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:05:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f23B0xk06171; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:00:59 +0100 Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:00:58 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-Reply-To: <983566209.3aa007815112f(a)email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of > introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of > questions to ask :). Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 fanatics, not just the unix types. :-) > * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first > choice) system with a TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like? First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity... The TE16 is an upright standing drive with vaccum colons. It's a normal full height 19" cabinet. > * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case > mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it > some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like? The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on the other side. It's a "small" box that resides in the lower part of the TE16 cabinet. You normally won't ever look at it, except when it breakes. > * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or > TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a > TE16 different from a TU16? They don't differ. > * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need > a RK11-D controller for this, right? I think each RK11-D can control up to eight drives. > * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can > offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older > black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty. > I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :) If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives. They fit 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty". However, they *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor, and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB. All "newer" drives are the off-white that DEC adopted. > * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need? RA81: UDA-50 RP06: Massbus (RH70 in your case) > * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem > 570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front > panel to put back on it? Could be tricky... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA98856 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:10:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> Sun Mar 4 03:06:16 2001 Received: from iris.services.ou.edu (iris.services.ou.edu [129.15.2.125]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA98852 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:10:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jss(a)iris.services.ou.edu) Received: from iris.services.ou.edu by iris.services.ou.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) id <0G9M00M01SUGQO(a)iris.services.ou.edu> for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:06:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:06:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> X-Originating-IP: 65.26.237.187 To: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-id: <983639176.3aa12488adff1(a)email.ou.edu> Organization: The University of Oklahoma MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.0 References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > Hello there! > > Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also > point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 > fanatics, not just the unix types. :-) Thanks for that. > > * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 > > First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a > soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. > Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity.. I'm not afraid of a little soldering. My current plan to ready my house for the machine is as follows. First, I have a wood floor that's suspended above the ground by various things in the crawlspace. I'll have to get down there and add some extra bracing where the machine will be. I'll lay a solid slab of strong wood on top of the floor to spread the weight out. Second, I'll have an electrician install the necessary power circuit. My ballpark figures tell me that I need capacity for 8-10kW. My house is small, but big enough for the 11/70. In a year or so I will be building a new house, complete with its own machine room. > The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the > massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on > the other side. I figured it might me something like that. > If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives. They fit > 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty". However, they > *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor, > and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB. Ah, a washing machine. I don't have room for it now (well, not where the machine will be), but I will in the new house. I've found a person that might sell me a RA81 to use until then. > > * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced > > with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point. How hard would it > > be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it? > > Could be tricky... Hm. I'd better start looking now. Thanks for your response. You have been extremely helpful. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA98938 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:28:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> Sun Mar 4 03:22:10 2001 Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl (smtp.hccnet.nl [193.172.127.93]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA98934 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:28:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from lars(a)fwn.rug.nl) Received: from fwn.rug.nl by smtp.hccnet.nl via uds236-119.dial.hccnet.nl [193.173.119.236] with ESMTP for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> id SAA05813 (8.8.5/1.13); Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:24:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3AA12842.6E3EA0E8(a)fwn.rug.nl> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:22:10 +0100 From: "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,nl-BE,en,en-US,en-GB,af,de-DE,de-AT,de-CH,fr,fr-FR,fr-BE,fr-CA MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) References: <983566209.3aa007815112f(a)email.ou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This seems like the perfect opportunity to introduce myself : ) Thank you Jeffrey. Lars Buitinck, 17 years old, student (high school, final year), UNIX fanatic, living in the Netherlands, looking for a reasonable PDP-11 (ie., one that can run 2.11BSD). MrBill (the owner of pdp11.org) knew where I could find an 11/73 and an 11/83 but both had to be shipped all the way from the US, both only had one RL02 disk drive, and only one had a tape drive. So does anybody know where I can find a reasonably modern, moderately sized 11, preferably from NL, DE or BE, with some reasonably large disks (some 50-60 MB minimum, I guess)? A tape drive would be nice... unless I can borrow one? I don't really care about the colour, as long as it works ; ) PS.: FYI, I speak English (obviously) and Dutch (again, obviously), and I understand French and German well enough, but please don't expect me to mail in French or German. "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of > introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of > questions to ask :). ... > The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 Man, do I know that feeling > unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier. If you think you had bad luck, I was born 35 years too late. ; ) -- If I traveled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend, Murphy would be there to tell me The pot's at the other end. -- Bert Whitney Lars J. Buitinck

24 years, 2 months

[pups] TS05

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Dear All, I now have one of these but the tape hub locking mechanism is acting up. Has anyone got a set of the maintenance docs for a TS05 that they can scan for me? Regards Robin

24 years, 2 months

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 26 Feb, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock. > With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as > long as there are some interrupts happening. Hmm? Why will it run with_out_ a clock? >> OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-))) > > Fantastic! The next adventure is un-tar-ing the source and build my own kernel... -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA71575 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:28:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 13:24:22 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA71571 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:28:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA16488 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:24:22 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:24:22 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news > is that cc still fails with the following error: > > fFatal error in /lib/c0 > > The lowercase f appears, followed shortly by the rest of the line. I've > tried the -c option to suppress linking, and still get this error. I > don't get this error on the Supnik emulator. '/lib/c0' is the first pass of the C compiler, after the preprocessor has be run (the order is cc, c0, c1, c2 for the optimiser, and then 'as' to produce the object file). I dimly recall that the various passes forked by 'cc' didn't bother to catch signals, so any error just gives the "Fatal error in ..." message. The '-c' would have no effect this early. You could try the '-f' option, that uses a different compiler (with FP emulation). Assuming that you don't have a corrupted binary, or faulty processor/memory, then is one obscure possibility. While a user program will not see any difference between a 11/34 and 11/40 (except for floating point instructions), the behaviour after a memory management fault IS different. The non ID space processors (11/23/34/35/40/60) don't have a register to record the changes in the general cpu registers after a fault, and it has to be calculated in software. The 34 and 40 leave the registers in different states after a fault. The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate a fault because the stack needs to grow dynamically. The kernel extends the stack (where automatic variables are allocated), and then attempts to reexecute the instruction. In the case of a 34 using a standard m40.s, it sometimes gets it wrong, and is very program and data dependent. Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's? Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA71920 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:58:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 13:54:49 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA71916 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:58:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1S3soX00509; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:54:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280354.f1S3soX00509(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden at "Feb 28, 2001 02:24:22 pm" To: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:54:49 +1100 (EST) CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by John Holden: > > The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news > > is that cc still fails with the following error: > > fFatal error in /lib/c0 > > Assuming that you don't have a corrupted binary, or faulty processor/memory, > then is one obscure possibility. While a user program will not see any > difference between a 11/34 and 11/40 (except for floating point instructions), > the behaviour after a memory management fault IS different. The non ID space > processors (11/23/34/35/40/60) don't have a register to record the changes > in the general cpu registers after a fault, and it has to be calculated in > software. The 34 and 40 leave the registers in different states after a fault. > >The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack.This may generate > a fault because the stack needs to grow dynamically. The kernel extends the > stack (where automatic variables are allocated), and then attempts to > reexecute the instruction. In the case of a 34 using a standard m40.s, > it sometimes gets it wrong, and is very program and data dependent. > > Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's? That comment made me go through and scan my old AUUGNs for some articles written by Dave Horsfall [who is on this mailing list]. I found his article on porting V6 to the 11/23, but not for a port to the 11/34. However, at least two tar files in the UNIX Archive have an m34.s in them: Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix_80_delaware.gz: delaware/maryland/os40/m34.s Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix_80_delaware.gz:m34.s: toronto/case/sys/conf/m34.s The first appears to be modifications to V6, I haven't checked the latter yet. It may be something worth pursuing. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA71947 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:01:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Wed Feb 28 13:53:22 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.101]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA71943 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:01:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1S3rNj29913; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:53:23 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:53:22 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> cc: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281452230.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, John Holden wrote: > The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate [...] > Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's? I have actual code on how we handled this in those days; who wants it? -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA71965 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:04:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:00:30 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA71961 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:04:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1S40Uk00578; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:00:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280400.f1S40Uk00578(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281452230.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> from Dave Horsfall at "Feb 28, 2001 02:53:22 pm" To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:00:30 +1100 (EST) CC: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Dave Horsfall: > On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, John Holden wrote: > > The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate > [...] > > Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's? > I have actual code on how we handled this in those days; who wants it? Mail it to me and I'll drop it in the archive somewhere. Thanks Dave! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA72108 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:15:34 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA72104 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1S4FYA00697; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280415.f1S4FYA00697(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] V6 or V6 patches for 11/34 In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281500120.2716-400000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> from Dave Horsfall at "Feb 28, 2001 03:02:28 pm" To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:34 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Dave Horsfall: > On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote: > > Mail it to me and I'll drop it in the archive somewhere. > As attached... I see it actually came from ChemEng. It's for the 11/60, > but has the 11/34 stuff in there as well. > > PS: I'm sure I did a port to the 11/34 :-) I have moved the 11/34 patches into the UNIX Archive at PDP-11/Bug_Fixes/V7_on11-34 They look like V7 patches though, so they may not be readily usable on a V6 system. Those other files I mentioned may be better. Your mileage may vary :-) Dave, did you write an AUUGN paper for an 11/34 port, and what year so I can go back and have another look. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA72119 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:15:46 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA72114 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id PAA17381 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:46 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:46 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280415.PAA17381(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk >John Holden wrote: >> You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line >> break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations. >> Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a >> serial break as the power goes down. > >On my /53+ running 2.11, it's enough to kick in ODT.. Very anoying, really. >Is there any way to disable this functionality, save rewiring the backplane? You can usually disable the HALT on break feature. When the console is on a separate serial card :- DEC DLV11-E or F Remove jumper on wire-wrap pin H DEC DLV11-J wire-wrap pins X-B enables boot on break wire-wrap pins X-H enable halt (ODT) on break nothing on X disables both Webster WQDHV switch 4 at J9 OFF to ignore break. For processor cards with serial ports, I only have a manual for 11/23+. DEC is pretty consistent, so there should be options on 11/53 and latter 11/73's. 11/23+ KDF11-B? Remove jumper from J5-J4 and connect J3-J4 The jumpers aren't marked on the PCB, so looking at the board with the Qbus fingers at the bottom, handles at the top, there is a vertical row of three jumpers on the right hand side of the board. towards the bottom. Top to bottom is J5, J4 and J3. If anybody has manuals for 11/53+ and the quad slot 11/73's and can send me the details, I'll collate the information, and add it to my web page at :- http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/ The 11/53+ I have does have lots of jumpers, but no numbers or letters beside them. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA72755 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:07:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Wed Feb 28 15:59:41 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.101]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA72751 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:06:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1S5xfW00886; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:59:41 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:59:41 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: V6 or V6 patches for 11/34 In-Reply-To: <200102280415.f1S4FYA00697(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281656310.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote: > Dave, did you write an AUUGN paper for an 11/34 port, and what year > so I can go back and have another look. Vol 1 No 6. "Implementing UNIX on a PDP-11/34" (sub-titled: "What does the `F' in "RK05-F" really stand for ?"). I still have the nroff source available... It's about 1983-ish. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA74876 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 00:20:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

cabinet issues (Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.)

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 27 Feb, John Holden wrote: > On BA-23 boxes, there is a small, two lever DIP switch. [...] Thanks for the enlightening. As we are on the topic cabinets: Can a 11/73 run in a BA21x or BA440 cabinet? > You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line > break on the console line [...] That is the reason why I disconnect console terminals bevore I power them off (if there is no break disable switch on the machine). :-) -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA62508 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:24:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.

by Tom Ivar Helbekkmo

"Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes: > > BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted > > UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1 > > and this worked, but is it correct? > > Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago. This bothered me enough, a handful years ago, to change things a bit: For getty/main.c: *** main.c.ORIG Thu Dec 29 17:22:13 1994 --- main.c Thu Dec 29 17:21:28 1994 *************** *** 383,391 **** --- 383,393 ---- char c; c = cc; + #ifdef notdef /* hack to get rid of parity in getty */ c |= partab[c&0177] & 0200; if (OP) c ^= 0200; + #endif /* parity hack */ if (!UB) { outbuf[obufcnt++] = c; if (obufcnt >= OBUFSIZ) For pdp/cons.c: *** cons.c.ORIG Sun May 11 11:21:01 1997 --- cons.c Sun May 11 11:26:05 1997 *************** *** 62,68 **** if ((tp->t_state&TS_ISOPEN) == 0) { ttychars(tp); tp->t_state = TS_ISOPEN|TS_CARR_ON; ! tp->t_flags = EVENP|ECHO|XTABS|CRMOD; } if (tp->t_state&TS_XCLUDE && u.u_uid != 0) return (EBUSY); --- 62,68 ---- if ((tp->t_state&TS_ISOPEN) == 0) { ttychars(tp); tp->t_state = TS_ISOPEN|TS_CARR_ON; ! tp->t_flags = ANYP|ECHO|XTABS|CRMOD; } if (tp->t_state&TS_XCLUDE && u.u_uid != 0) return (EBUSY); For sys/tty.c: *** tty.c.ORIG Sun May 11 11:21:40 1997 --- tty.c Sun May 11 11:27:40 1997 *************** *** 48,53 **** --- 48,54 ---- */ char partab[] = { + #ifdef notdef /* even parity setup */ 0001,0201,0201,0001,0201,0001,0001,0201, 0202,0004,0003,0201,0005,0206,0201,0001, 0201,0001,0001,0201,0001,0201,0201,0001, *************** *** 64,69 **** --- 65,88 ---- 0200,0000,0000,0200,0000,0200,0200,0000, 0200,0000,0000,0200,0000,0200,0200,0000, 0000,0200,0200,0000,0200,0000,0000,0201, + #else /* no parity setup follows */ + 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001, + 0002,0004,0003,0001,0005,0006,0001,0001, + 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001, + 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0001, + #endif /* end of parity selection stuff */ /* * 7 bit ascii ends with the last character above, Hmm. It's been a while. I should fire up the old /83 and get all the latest patches from Steven applied, while it's still winter, and I can run it and the VAX without overheating my machine room. :-) -tih -- Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier" Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA62202 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:12:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Wed Feb 28 06:01:50 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA62198 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:12:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651fe222a98(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl> for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:06:42 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RA5N>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:01:51 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CC3(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] DEC Ultrix-11 V3.1 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:01:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, Just a note to let you know that I am making good progress on getting my modified Ultrix-11 V3.1 up and running. I'll be uploading disk images of various MicroPDP-11 (/23, /53, /73, /83) based systems for you to enjoy :) Most of all, I should be able to run TK50 install tapes again as of next week, given my working 11/83 with TK50. Many thanks go to Bill Gunshannon for the initial image (I could not get my boot tapes to work), Warren Toomey for letting me play lots with VTserver and integrating it into Ultrix, Kees Stravers for giving me the hardware I needed, and, of course, to The Wanderer for figuring out my hardware problemns with me :) Cheers, Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA62303 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:37:52 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Wed Feb 28 06:26:56 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA62299 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:37:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651fe392559(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl> for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:31:48 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RA5R>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:26:57 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CC4(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "'PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)'" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] DEC Ultrix-11 V3.1 part II Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:26:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, > Many thanks go to ... Blah! And of course to Wilko Bulte, who provided the dumps of the original V3.1 tapes, and with whom I spent quite some time debugging the why-doesn-this-work problems with the initial tape dump files... Fred (compiling stuff on the PDP so he can transfer stuff in and out of the box without having to use the slow VTserver link ;-) ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA62479 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:20:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

[pups] Forks under V6

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I believe the practice John Holden describes from Mini-UNIX (only one process in memory at a time, hence a context switch is the same as a swap) was also part of the very earliest UNIXes, on the PDP-7 and the 11/20, neither of which had hardware memory management. Dennis Ritchie's `Evolution of the UNIX Time-Sharing System' paper (in the October 1984 Bell Labs Technical Journal, the second issue to be devoted entirely to UNIX), tells how it worked in some detail. It wouldn't surprise me if the swap-to-fork mechanism lived on for a while even after the system learned about memory management, but I don't actually know that. (Warren: wbat does the old system you have do?) Anyone who wants to verify what John describes for V6 can look in (among other places) the Lions book; newproc is at line 1826, at the beginning of slp.c. Norman Wilson Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA55770 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:15:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 10:15:44 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA55766 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:15:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1R0IOT10330; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:18:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102270018.f1R0IOT10330(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Forks under V6 In-Reply-To: <200102262353.KAA55588(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Norman Wilson at "Feb 26, 2001 06:49:13 pm" To: Norman Wilson <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:15:44 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Norman Wilson: > I believe the practice John Holden describes from Mini-UNIX (only one > process in memory at a time, hence a context switch is the same as a > swap) was also part of the very earliest UNIXes, on the PDP-7 and the > 11/20, neither of which had hardware memory management. Dennis Ritchie's > `Evolution of the UNIX Time-Sharing System' paper (in the October 1984 > Bell Labs Technical Journal, the second issue to be devoted entirely to > UNIX), tells how it worked in some detail. It wouldn't surprise me if > the swap-to-fork mechanism lived on for a while even after the system > learned about memory management, but I don't actually know that. (Warren: > wbat does the old system you have do?) > Norman Wilson For the versions on the 11/20 [that's V1, V2 and V3], as there was no memory protection, there was only 1 process in core at any time. Thus, the parent was definitely swapped out. The Nsys kernel (just before V4) also swaps the parent out: newproc() { /* * make proc entry for new proc */ /* * swap out old process * to make image of new proc */ } (http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/Nsys/sys/nsys/ken/slp.c.html) We don't have kernel source for V4 :-(. It looks like V5 also swaps the parent out: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/V5/usr/sys/ken/slp.c.html By V6, the parent could stay in core if there was enough room: newproc() { /* * If there is not enough core for the * new process, swap out the current process to generate the * copy. */ if(a2 == NULL) { savu(u.u_ssav); xswap(rpp, 0, 0); } else { /* * There is core, so just copy. */ rpp->p_addr = a2; while(n--) copyseg(a1++, a2++); } u.u_procp = rip; return(0); } (http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/V6/usr/sys/ken/slp.c.html) I've omitted some lines of code here and there. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA56632 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:06:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 13:02:55 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA56628 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:06:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA31721 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:02:55 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:02:55 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102270302.OAA31721(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On BA-23 boxes, there is a small, two lever DIP switch. Switch 1 in the ON position (down) enables BEVENT on the Qbus. Without it enabled, there will no line time clock interrupts generated, even if the LTC register at 777546 in enabled. The second switch enables the 'restart' button when ON. Pressing 'restart' starts a powerup sequence, running diagnostics and starting ODT or the bootstrap (equivalent to cycling the power). On the earlier BA-11 series boxes for the LSI-11 (and /23), there was an equivalent switch on the front panel labeled "Aux". It could be used either to enable the BEVENT or the remote switch for the cabinet power controller. The 11/23plus, 11/53/73 have programable LTC registers, so the switch is normally left on. On the LSI-11,/2 and early 11/23, you would initially boot the machine with it off, then enable it. As for machines hanging without the LTC running, the problem is that the scheduler (sched) never gets to run, since it sleeps waiting for the 'lbolt' flag that is only ever set in the clock interrupt service routine. The timeout queue also doesn't run, so only the internal 'init' process will ever get to run PS You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations. Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a serial break as the power goes down. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA57000 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:58:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Tue Feb 27 13:50:59 2001 Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA56996 for <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:58:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cube1(a)home.com) Received: from ddjay.home.com ([65.3.254.22]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010227035419.WQFR26655.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com(a)ddjay.home.com>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:54:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010226213702.04607d00@cirithi> X-Sender: cube1@cirithi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:50:59 -0600 To: pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? Cc: kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com, johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au In-Reply-To: <200102262232.JAA55097(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In case someone didn't put 2+2 together... The V6 distribution has various unix kernels. I don't recall for sure which kernel is linked to /unix, but for sure it is only one of them. So, if /rpunix is linked to /unix, and you boot rkunix, and then do a ps, it will search /unix for the symbol for swapdev, look for the RP device in /dev, and not find one. no swap dev. The cure is, of course, quite simple: # chdir / # ln rkunix unix And ps will now work fine. [ Ian might have gotten this directly had he not hidden his real e-mail address... ;-) ] Jay Jaeger At 09:32 AM 2/27/01 +1100, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:49:22 -0800 >From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org> >Subject: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I'm working with the install image provided by Ken Wellsch, and when I = >execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says "no swap device". I'm = > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800 >From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> >Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something >odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open >("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, > >- -----Original Message----- >From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM >To: Roger Ivie >Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a >block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like >that) and confirming it is a block device. > >Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" >still gripes about "no swap device." > >So I'm missing something I guess. > >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST) >From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > << snip >> >The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets >the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc) >It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a matching >device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot open >a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user >process). >It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names. > >For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel, say >rkunix. --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA58909 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 22:07:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Tue Feb 27 21:03:54 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA58905 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 22:07:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 47EB97F14; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:03:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:03:54 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Message-ID: <20010227120354.A9872(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <200102270302.OAA31721(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <200102270302.OAA31721(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>; from johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au on Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 02:02:55PM +1100 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk John Holden wrote: > You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line > break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations. > Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a > serial break as the power goes down. On my /53+ running 2.11, it's enough to kick in ODT.. Very anoying, really. Is there any way to disable this functionality, save rewiring the backplane? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA61301 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:43:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Feb 28 02:56:06 2001 Received: from mail4.microsoft.com (mail4.microsoft.com [131.107.3.122]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA61297 for <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:42:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.101 by mail4.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:56:20 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: from red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.71]) by inet-imc-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:55:28 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4418.65 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:56:06 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEC0A(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [pups] Swap device in V6? Thread-Index: AcCgdE7qokpl8pfARPebGWEtnq6FUgAaQ5uQ From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "Jay Jaeger" <cube1(a)home.com>, <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Cc: <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2001 16:55:28.0605 (UTC) FILETIME=[1670D0D0:01C0A0DE] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au id EAA61298 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news is that cc still fails with the following error: fFatal error in /lib/c0 The lowercase f appears, followed shortly by the rest of the line. I've tried the -c option to suppress linking, and still get this error. I don't get this error on the Supnik emulator. Obviously, one way to do things would be to rebuild the kernel on the emulator, and transfer it to the PDP-11. But that seems like cheating. :-) Besides, the Supnik emulator is just too freeform; my 11/34a doesn't have a half-dozen instructions the emulator implements. I've tried the DBit E11 emulator (since it gives more control over processor features), but I can't get it to boot these images. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Jay Jaeger [mailto:cube1@home.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:51 PM To: pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com; johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In case someone didn't put 2+2 together... The V6 distribution has various unix kernels. I don't recall for sure which kernel is linked to /unix, but for sure it is only one of them. So, if /rpunix is linked to /unix, and you boot rkunix, and then do a ps, it will search /unix for the symbol for swapdev, look for the RP device in /dev, and not find one. no swap dev. The cure is, of course, quite simple: # chdir / # ln rkunix unix And ps will now work fine. [ Ian might have gotten this directly had he not hidden his real e-mail address... ;-) ] Jay Jaeger At 09:32 AM 2/27/01 +1100, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:49:22 -0800 >From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org> >Subject: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I'm working with the install image provided by Ken Wellsch, and when I = >execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says "no swap device". I'm = > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800 >From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> >Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something >odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open >("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, > >- -----Original Message----- >From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM >To: Roger Ivie >Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a >block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like >that) and confirming it is a block device. > >Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" >still gripes about "no swap device." > >So I'm missing something I guess. > >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST) >From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > << snip >> >The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets >the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc) >It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a matching >device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot open >a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user >process). >It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names. > >For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel, say >rkunix. --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA61575 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 05:32:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Jay Jaeger [mailto:cube1@home.com] Wed Feb 28 04:27:56 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA61571 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 05:31:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16090 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:27:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:27:56 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200102271827.KAA16090(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Mon Feb 26 13:32 PST 2001 > From: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:15:52 +0100 (CET) > Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. > To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com > cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > >> System configuration: > >> 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in, > >> W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.) > > > > There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the > > 'halt' instruction. > BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to > double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and > disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5 > jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front > panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches > of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5 > installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run > immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this > switches? Quote from _Microcomputer Products Handbook_ EB26078 41/85 (DEC) "Control Panel . . . The 2-position linetime clock (LTC) switch (switch 1) is used to enable or disable the LTC function. Setting switch 1 ON enables the LTC to function under software control. Setting switch 1 to the OFF position disables the LTC function. The other 2-position switch (switch 2) is not used." Note (by me) this refers to microPDP usage of the BA23. The LTC is not used by the microVAX which could occupy the same box. carl

24 years, 2 months

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 26 Feb, Steven M. Schultz wrote: >> 2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000 >> sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC > That looks good - and familiar ;) ;-) > The next thing that should have come out is the '# ' single user > prompt. ... like setup.ps says. >> else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is off. I tried with an > > That sounds like the system 'halt'ed for some (unknown) reason. > Sigh - that kernel should work fine, especially with a RQDX3/RD54. Yes. All the devices where used in a MVII bevore and are knowen to work. Thats a bit confusing. >> System configuration: >> 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in, >> W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.) > > There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the > 'halt' instruction. BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5 jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5 installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this switches? OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-))) Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr… be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint, hint. ;-) ) So I use a minicom script to load the bootstrap via ODT. But the current bootstrap script is for TMSCP. So I have to load the bootblocks from tape... -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA54909 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:48:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 07:44:23 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA54905 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:48:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA24139 for PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102262144.IAA24139(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk The root device, swap device, swap size and offset are hard coded into the kernel configuration file c.c. This is build by 'myconf', although a lot of people would directly edit l.s and c.c (in /usr/sys/conf). There are no magic /dev/swap entries. Edition 7 does the same thing. For a RK05 disk, the filesystem would typically occupy 4000 blocks, with the last 872 being allocated for swap. If you built a new root disk, you had to be careful that the disk size you gave to 'mkfs', didn't overlap the hard configured swap disk. No disk partitions. You can find out the current values by using one of the debuggers (db or cdb) to find the values of swap (_swapdev), swap size (_nswap), swap offset (_swplo) and root device (_rootdev). You can also use 'nm' to get the symbol table, and 'od' the kernel file /unix. The RK05 was usually the first entry in the device switch tables, so the major/minor numbers are usually 0. The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc) It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a matching device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot open a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user process). It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names. For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel, say rkunix. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55090 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:32:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 08:32:38 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55086 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:32:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1QMZJR09631; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:35:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102262235.f1QMZJR09631(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Announce: The Unix Tree In-Reply-To: <200102261747.SAA16216(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de" at "Feb 26, 2001 06:47:11 pm" To: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:32:38 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de: > On 26 Feb, Warren Toomey wrote: > > > Because of the license restrictions, you need your normal UNIX Archive > > username and password to browse. > Hmm. Can you set up Apache to provide SSL / HTTPS? I don't like to send > passwords unencrypted around the world. > tsch__, > Jochen They are not real passwords, in a sense. There is only a userpool of 1,000 usernames/passwords. When you register for access into the Unix Archive, you get one out of the pool. The only purpose here is to prove to SCO that you indeed agreed to their on-line license before you were given access to the archive. I'd be quite happy to completely dispense with the passwords altogether and run an anonymous service. If/when Caldera work out what they are doing with this stuff, I'll push them to allow for anonymous access. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55130 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:39:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 27 08:26:24 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55126 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:39:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1QMQOv11403 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:26:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:26:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102262226.f1QMQOv11403(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Feb 26 13:16:40 2001 > > There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the > > 'halt' instruction. > BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to > double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and > disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5 Years ago I was completely suprised that 'halt' in kernel mode did not work and the system simply continued executing the next instruction. > jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front > panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches > of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5 > installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run > immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this > switches? I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock. With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as long as there are some interrupts happening. I vaguely remember that some systems (11/23?) had an externally enabled clock and if that switch was not set correctly the OS could be installed but the system would "hang" later on due to no context switch scheduling. > OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-))) Fantastic! > Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr… > be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint, I think it will work. 2.11 is expecting the registers to contain the following: R0 = unit number R1 = CSR of booting controller as long as those are set it should not matter what bootcode is used. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55189 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Tue Feb 27 08:39:30 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55185 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QMdUY03244; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:39:30 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:39:30 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> cc: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>, <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <3A9A97B5.4EBD13A4(a)tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102270938530.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" > still gripes about "no swap device." As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap device. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55240 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:52:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Feb 27 08:45:56 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55235 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:52:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QMjuC03306 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:45:56 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:45:56 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <01K0KD39CMMQ91Z5ER(a)cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102270942470.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Roger Ivie wrote: > It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done > essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to > delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me. Yes, that's how it was done, leading to the dreaded "panic: swap". I think the swapped image became the parent, and the in-core one the child, hence the child was pretty well guaranteed to run before the parent (it typically did an exec() afterwards). -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55279 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:55:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 08:51:11 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55275 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:55:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QMpBL28517; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:51:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A9ADDDF.F8468078(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:51:11 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.38 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> CC: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? References: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102270938530.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Dave Horsfall wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > > > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" > > still gripes about "no swap device." > > As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap > device. After some wise person earlier explained the whole process in detail, once I'd seen the final step ,I realized my error - I was booting rkunix and as it turned out, had not matched /unix with that kernel... I just tried it now and 'ps' is a happy camper. B^) -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55384 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:15:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Feb 27 08:40:09 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55380 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:15:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QMe9n03256 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:40:10 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:40:09 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102270939440.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" > still gripes about "no swap device." As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap device. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55398 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:15:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 09:12:07 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55394 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:15:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA26058 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:12:07 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:12:07 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102262312.KAA26058(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Forks under V6 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done > essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to > delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me. No. Fork calls the internal version 'newproc'. It tries to allocate memory from the core map for the new process, and only when it fails that it creates the new process as a swap image. Effectively, it copies out the parent as a swap image, but attaches it to the child process (the parent isn't really swapped). In 'miniunix', the V6 strip down for pdp-11's without memory management (pdp11/20, 05, 10 and 40's without the proper options), only a single process would fit in core, so every context switch or fork required swapping. I cannot speak for pre V6 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55548 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:50:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Tue Feb 27 09:46:45 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:0@Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55544 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:50:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f1QNkkx08605; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:46:46 +0100 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:46:45 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. In-Reply-To: <200102262226.f1QMQOv11403(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102270042590.7228-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front > > panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches > > of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5 > > installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run > > immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this > > switches? > > I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock. > With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as > long as there are some interrupts happening. Could be. I also remember seeing somewhere that the two dip switches on the front panel of BA23 boxes should be set differently for PDP-11s and VAXen. Appearantly they expect the boot button to behave in different ways on the bus as well... (and HALT I think) Don't have that docuemnt anywhere close though... > I vaguely remember that some systems (11/23?) had an externally > enabled clock and if that switch was not set correctly the OS could > be installed but the system would "hang" later on due to no context > switch scheduling. That definitely happens for RSX atleast. You *must* have a clock interrupt running, or you are cooked. > > Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in > > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr… > > be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint, > > I think it will work. 2.11 is expecting the registers to contain > the following: > > R0 = unit number > R1 = CSR of booting controller > > as long as those are set it should not matter what bootcode is used. Then it's more forgiving than the RSX boot code. I have tried that bootstrap and it won't boot RSX atleast, that much I know... Speaking of which; does anyone have boot roms for TMSCP for the M9312? Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55592 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:53:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?

by Bill Gunshannon

On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" > still gripes about "no swap device." > > So I'm missing something I guess. > Based on my recent experience with Ultrix-11 (which warns you not to try and change the partiitioning on certain drive types as the kernel has some references hard-coded) what you may be missing are the devices for the individual partitions. Is there an equivalent to MAKEDEV?? Ultrix uses a program named "msf" (for "make special file") and so you never see what the partitioning layout is unless you peek at the sources. Good luck. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA53869 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:59:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 04:27:12 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA53865 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:59:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:26:14 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <FWD7Q3LT>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:13 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open ("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message. But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(), execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being able to find swap space would sure bugger things up. I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM To: Roger Ivie Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? Roger Ivie wrote: > > Ian King said: > > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = > > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = > > Thanks -- Ian=20 > > Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle > of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. > > Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you > take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the > drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. > I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but > it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive. Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap. The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like that) and confirming it is a block device. Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" still gripes about "no swap device." So I'm missing something I guess. -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA53963 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:08:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Tue Feb 27 04:04:53 2001 Received: from grumpy.usu.edu (grumpy.usu.edu [129.123.1.86]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA53959 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:08:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu) Received: from cc.usu.edu by cc.usu.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #30472) id <01K0KD39CHXC91Z5ER(a)cc.usu.edu> for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:04:53 MDT Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:04:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-id: <01K0KD39CMMQ91Z5ER(a)cc.usu.edu> X-VMS-To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ian King wrote: > But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(), > execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being > able to find swap space would sure bugger things up. It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA54007 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:13:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 05:06:07 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA54001 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:13:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:07:28 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <FWD7QWQ7>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:06:17 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEBFD(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Steven M. Schultz'" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Serial settings (was RE: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:06:07 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk FWIW, I noticed that Unix V6 is happier with 7E1 for its console, too; I'm using a terminal emulator, and was getting garbage from V6 (but had had no problems with RSX-11). -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Steven M. Schultz [mailto:sms@moe.2bsd.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:22 AM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. [snip] > BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted > UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1 > and this worked, but is it correct? Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA54287 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:51:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Tue Feb 27 05:41:07 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA54283 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:51:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651f8e8f4da(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl> for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:46:07 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RAWQ>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:41:13 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CA8(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Ultrix-11 V3.1 hang on DEQNA ? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:41:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, I'm almost there. If only I can tell my 11/23+ _not_ to hang as soon as I enable networking by configuring the Ethernet (qe0; DEQNA) card with ifconfig. Does anyone have docs regarding the DEQNA and/or DELQA so I can check the board's physical settings? Thx, Fted ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA54456 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:22:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Tue Feb 27 06:17:18 2001 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA54452 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:22:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14XU6C-0000Xp-0K; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:18:25 +0000 Message-ID: <ZchHXUAOnrm6Ewzo(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:17:18 +0000 To: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>, PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device? Robin In message <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond. corp.microsoft.com>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> writes >I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something >odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open >("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, >but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few >statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message. > >But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(), >execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being >able to find swap space would sure bugger things up. > >I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM >To: Roger Ivie >Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > > >Roger Ivie wrote: >> >> Ian King said: >> > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = >> > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = >> > Thanks -- Ian=20 >> >> Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle >> of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. >> >> Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you >> take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the >> drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. >> I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but >> it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. > >I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel >is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in >looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring >the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive. > >Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and >a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap. > >The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a >block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like >that) and confirming it is a block device. > >Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" >still gripes about "no swap device." > >So I'm missing something I guess. > >-- Ken ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA54490 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:26:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 06:22:35 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA54486 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:26:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QKMZL28334; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:22:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A9ABB0B.F1E754B(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:22:35 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.38 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> CC: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <ZchHXUAOnrm6Ewzo(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I know I for one had forgotten just what "the state of the art" was with UNIX back in 1975. If you can, please do look at the source for V6/ps. Really. /dev/swap? In your dreams! B^) Cheers, -- Ken Robin Birch wrote: > > In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap > device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either > isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device? > > Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA54574 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:40:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 06:29:48 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA54570 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:40:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:28:34 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <FW8LQLS5>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:30:01 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1CB(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Robin Birch'" <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>, PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:29:48 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I was wondering about that, as I've seen that sort of thing in other *nixes, too. I tried creating a link to /dev/swap from /dev/rk0, and it didn't help ps (same error message). I'm going to figure out some way to print out ps.c later and trace through it; I was going through it with ed on the PDP-11 (which was fun, in a twisted, nostalgic sort of way). If I can figure out exactly how it's looking for what it's looking for, perhaps I can figure out why it isn't finding it. :-) I've found the stuff on coming up in single-user mode, too - with 173030 in the switch register (I have the programmer's panel on my 11/34a). FYI. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Robin Birch [mailto:robin@ruffnready.co.uk] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:17 PM To: Ian King Cc: 'Ken Wellsch'; Roger Ivie; PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device? Robin In message <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond. corp.microsoft.com>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> writes >I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something >odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open >("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, >but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few >statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message. > >But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(), >execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being >able to find swap space would sure bugger things up. > >I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM >To: Roger Ivie >Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > > >Roger Ivie wrote: >> >> Ian King said: >> > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = >> > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = >> > Thanks -- Ian=20 >> >> Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle >> of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. >> >> Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you >> take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the >> drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. >> I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but >> it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. > >I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel >is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in >looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring >the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive. > >Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and >a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap. > >The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a >block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like >that) and confirming it is a block device. > >Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" >still gripes about "no swap device." > >So I'm missing something I guess. > >-- Ken ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA54716 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:12:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Tue Feb 27 07:01:36 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA54712 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:12:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651f932a75e(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:06:37 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RAXB>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:01:43 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CAB(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "'Robin Birch'" <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>, PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:01:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap > device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either > isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device? That is often the case.. dunno about V6 though.. is a long time ago :) --f ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA54749 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:20:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

[pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

Hi. Yesterday I installed 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73. Everything went fine up to the first time when UNIX was booted. The kernel came up, init was started, autoconfig run and printed out the devices it had (not) found. My disk and tape were found but then, after printing: ----- 73Boot from tms(0,0,0) at 0174500 : ra(0,0)unix Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000 sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC ra0: Ver 3 mod 3 ra0: RD54 size=311200 phys mem = 4186112 avail mem = 3962176 user mem = 307200 June 8 21:21:24 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No CSR. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No CSR. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No CSR. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No CSR. tms 0 csr 174500 vector 260 vectorset attached ts ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No CSR. xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No CSR. ----- it hangs. Characters I type into the terminal are echod, but nothing else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is of. I tried with an other CPU und memory card, but the same happend. System configuration: 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in, W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.) 4MB or 1MB memory card (non DEC) Sigma DLV11-J clone for console (CSR 1765{0,1,2}0 and 177560) TK50 with TQK50 (CSR 174500) RA54, last week reformated on a MV2000 with RQDX3 (CSR 172150) BA23 from a MVII. BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1 and this worked, but is it correct? -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA53205 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:35:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Tue Feb 27 03:31:41 2001 Received: from grumpy.usu.edu (grumpy.usu.edu [129.123.1.86]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA53196 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:34:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu) Received: from cc.usu.edu by cc.usu.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39375) id <01K0K9U87TRK9ODB68(a)cc.usu.edu> for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:41 MST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:41 -0700 (MST) From: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-id: <01K0K9U87UPE9ODB68(a)cc.usu.edu> X-VMS-To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ian King said: > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = > Thanks -- Ian=20 Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA53322 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:55:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 03:51:49 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA53318 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:55:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QHpnL27849; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:51:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A9A97B5.4EBD13A4(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:51:49 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.38 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> CC: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? References: <01K0K9U87UPE9ODB68(a)cc.usu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Roger Ivie wrote: > > Ian King said: > > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = > > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = > > Thanks -- Ian=20 > > Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle > of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. > > Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you > take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the > drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. > I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but > it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive. Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap. The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like that) and confirming it is a block device. Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" still gripes about "no swap device." So I'm missing something I guess. -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA53659 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:39:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 27 04:22:23 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA53655 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:39:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1QIMNt09941 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:22:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:22:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102261822.f1QIMNt09941(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de > > Yesterday I installed 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73. Everything went fine up > to the first time when UNIX was booted. The kernel came up, init was > started, autoconfig run and printed out the devices it had (not) found. > 2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000 > sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC That looks good - and familiar ;) > xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No CSR. > ----- > it hangs. Characters I type into the terminal are echod, but nothing The next thing that should have come out is the '# ' single user prompt. > else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is off. I tried with an That sounds like the system 'halt'ed for some (unknown) reason. Sigh - that kernel should work fine, especially with a RQDX3/RD54. I am at a loss to explain/diagnose the problem. > System configuration: > 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in, > W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.) There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the 'halt' instruction. If 'halt' is disabled then the 'halt' instruction is treated as a 'nop' even in kernel mode. If 'halt' is enabled then the console ODT will be entered if the kernel executes a halt. Looks like we'll have to try and solve this the hard way ;( After the system hangs press the 'halt' button on the front of the machine and note the PC - hopefully that value will give a clue as to where the kernel is at the time (likely in a clock interrupt). > BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted > UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1 > and this worked, but is it correct? Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com

24 years, 2 months

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