Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of questions to ask :). First, here is a little about myself and why I'm here. I'm 22 years old. I go to school at the University of Oklahoma, majoring in CS, and work as an embedded programmer. My religion, if one exists, consists of the many tenets and folkloric tales of programming. So here I am, 22; what am I doing asking about PDP-11s and their Unices? Well, I'm hyperinterested in the history of computing, especially that history that constitues the minicomputer era. I guess I arrived at this state by the following path: Birth -> TRS80 -> MSDOS/Windows -> Unix -> Folklore -> Obsession The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 and learn everything I can about it, lest all the remaining ones be usurped by museums, to forever lie derelict behind glass walls where no one can ever play with them, gain knowledge from them, or truly appreciate them again. I don't want to build an enormous collection -- just one or two that I can keep in working order. My purpose is intellectual exploration. I have to *experience* what computing was like in my favorite era, and this is the only way, since unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier. Finding PDP-11 hardware, while somewhat difficult, is not the prime problem. *What* hardware do I find? I can find out via the Internet the basics of what hardware exists, but the information stops rather short of being complete. I need the following questions answered: * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first choice) system with a TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like? * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like? * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a TE16 different from a TU16? * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need a RK11-D controller for this, right? * Can V7 fit on 3 to 4 RK05s? * What range of PDP-11 BSD versions will fit comfortably on 3 to 4 RK05s? * Look at the middle rack in the following picture. Are those RK05f drives? http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/kepek/pdp11-70.jpg * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty. I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :) * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need? * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it? Whew! I think that's all for the moment. All responses are appreciated. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA97068 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:05:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:0@Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA97064 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>au>; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:05:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f23B0xk06171; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:00:59 +0100 Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:00:58 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-Reply-To: <983566209.3aa007815112f(a)email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 fanatics, not just the unix types. :-) First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity... The TE16 is an upright standing drive with vaccum colons. It's a normal full height 19" cabinet. The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on the other side. It's a "small" box that resides in the lower part of the TE16 cabinet. You normally won't ever look at it, except when it breakes. They don't differ. I think each RK11-D can control up to eight drives. If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives. They fit 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty". However, they *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor, and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB. All "newer" drives are the off-white that DEC adopted. RA81: UDA-50 RP06: Massbus (RH70 in your case) Could be tricky... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA98856 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:10:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from iris.services.ou.edu (iris.services.ou.edu [129.15.2.125]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA98852 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>au>; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:10:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jss(a)iris.services.ou.edu) Received: from iris.services.ou.edu by iris.services.ou.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) id <0G9M00M01SUGQO(a)iris.services.ou.edu> for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:06:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:06:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> X-Originating-IP: 65.26.237.187 To: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-id: <983639176.3aa12488adff1(a)email.ou.edu> Organization: The University of Oklahoma MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.0 References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Thanks for that. I'm not afraid of a little soldering. My current plan to ready my house for the machine is as follows. First, I have a wood floor that's suspended above the ground by various things in the crawlspace. I'll have to get down there and add some extra bracing where the machine will be. I'll lay a solid slab of strong wood on top of the floor to spread the weight out. Second, I'll have an electrician install the necessary power circuit. My ballpark figures tell me that I need capacity for 8-10kW. My house is small, but big enough for the 11/70. In a year or so I will be building a new house, complete with its own machine room. I figured it might me something like that. Ah, a washing machine. I don't have room for it now (well, not where the machine will be), but I will in the new house. I've found a person that might sell me a RA81 to use until then. Hm. I'd better start looking now. Thanks for your response. You have been extremely helpful. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA98938 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:28:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl (smtp.hccnet.nl [193.172.127.93]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA98934 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>au>; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:28:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from lars(a)fwn.rug.nl) Received: from fwn.rug.nl by smtp.hccnet.nl via uds236-119.dial.hccnet.nl [193.173.119.236] with ESMTP for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> id SAA05813 (8.8.5/1.13); Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:24:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3AA12842.6E3EA0E8(a)fwn.rug.nl> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:22:10 +0100 From: "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,nl-BE,en,en-US,en-GB,af,de-DE,de-AT,de-CH,fr,fr-FR,fr-BE,fr-CA MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) References: <983566209.3aa007815112f(a)email.ou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This seems like the perfect opportunity to introduce myself : ) Thank you Jeffrey. Lars Buitinck, 17 years old, student (high school, final year), UNIX fanatic, living in the Netherlands, looking for a reasonable PDP-11 (ie., one that can run 2.11BSD). MrBill (the owner of pdp11.org) knew where I could find an 11/73 and an 11/83 but both had to be shipped all the way from the US, both only had one RL02 disk drive, and only one had a tape drive. So does anybody know where I can find a reasonably modern, moderately sized 11, preferably from NL, DE or BE, with some reasonably large disks (some 50-60 MB minimum, I guess)? A tape drive would be nice... unless I can borrow one? I don't really care about the colour, as long as it works ; ) PS.: FYI, I speak English (obviously) and Dutch (again, obviously), and I understand French and German well enough, but please don't expect me to mail in French or German. "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: ... Man, do I know that feeling If you think you had bad luck, I was born 35 years too late. ; ) -- If I traveled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend, Murphy would be there to tell me The pot's at the other end. -- Bert Whitney Lars J. Buitinck