TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

12 participants
6467 discussions

by segaloco

So System V shops had to hold a license with AT&T to modify and redistribute code based on UNIX System V and they would then license directly with their customers correct? This being distinct from the way licensing with BSD was concerned in that you had to pursue the license with AT&T to then use BSD. That is my current understanding anyway that I base this question on. So IBM, DEC, Sun, HP, Microsoft, etc. approach AT&T, got a source license, and started producing their System V value adds out there in the world. In this present day and age, for those still shipping genuine System V derivatives, what does this licensing landscape actually look like? Do the players still in the game still refer to whatever license they started with back in the 80s, did they renew up until say SVR4 when folks stopped drinking from the USL well, or are there still ongoing licenses that the remaining vendors have to renew to distribute their software? Where I'm going with this is just another angle on the whole "who owns System V" question which comes up in my mind all the time. Knowing the specific legal entities involved in the most recent licensing documentation would certainly factor into understanding the landscape a little better. To boil that down to a specific example, once upon a time, Sun held a license with AT&T to use, modify, and redistribute UNIX System V. At the present moment, Oracle is the distributor of Solaris. If there is a piece of licensing paperwork sitting in a filing cabinet at Oracle somewhere, who would that paperwork say is the original licensor of the product? Would that even matter in this year of 2025? - Matt G.

5 days, 8 hours

running BSD 2.11 on my PDP 11/70 emulator

by Folkert van Heusden

Hi, For fun I'm developing a PDP 11/70 emulator. It runs on everything from ESP32 microcontrollers up to linux, windows, etc https://vanheusden.com/emulation/PDP-11/kek/ Currently it can run UNIX 7 in multi user mode. Of course I would like it to run BSD 2.11 as well (because of the networking support). It boots, but after outputting the memory amounts it produces a lot of garbage. It does eventually complete booting and then allows you to log in. I wonder if you sees this: https://paste.nurd.space/mqIDB_0SjoDoJoasOGkiNQ_NjpRsCufAJCnKTA7ZxUI (text) or https://imgpaste.nurd.space/pics/437bcf0d149a017168cbbf2def8560917a037a3935… (image), does this ring a bell to anyone? I verified with simh that the disk-image should work. regards -- www.vanheusden.com

6 days, 3 hours

2.11BSD Patch Announcements

by Henry Bent

Hi all, I see that there has been quite a bit of activity in the last few weeks with 2.11BSD, resulting in the release of a number of patches. Is there any sort of announcement list that one could subscribe to in order to be notified of when these patch releases occur? Would it make sense to post patch announcements to the TUHS or SIMH lists? TUHS seems somewhat natural since one of the patch distribution methods is through their archive, though I am open to thoughts that anyone else has about this. I only happened to be aware of the patches because I have the "History of the Berkeley Software Distribution" page on my Wikipedia watchlist and someone has been very diligent about updating the 2.11BSD patch status there. -Henry

6 days, 9 hours

Re: non-Posix input files

by Douglas McIlroy

> "The requirement that awk add a trailing <newline> to the program argument > text is to simplify the grammar, making it match a text file in form." This should no more be a *requirement* for awk than globbing should have been a requirement for MS-DOS apps. A widespread principle deserves a widespread answer. If it is a requirement on awk, then for interoperability it should be made a requirement on all programs that handle text files, especially editors. The way to do that, of course, would be to redefine text file to allow a non-newline as the last character. Ugh. Not warning perpetuates travesties like "awk END{print NR}' " giving a different answer than "wc -l". I agree that awk does the kind thing by supplying the final newline. But it should recognize that this is non-standard behavior and warn in the interest of discouraging the proliferation of garbage. Postel's so-called "robustness principle" is in play here. "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept" would better read, "Send conservatively; receive amply but grudgingly". Doug

2 weeks, 1 day

Re: non-Posix input files

by Steve Simon

Re: newlines at the end of files. I hesitate to ask this in such exalted company, but isn’t it a question of whether the newline is (or should be) a line terminator, or a statement separator? -Steve

2 weeks, 1 day

Re: non-Posix input files

by Douglas McIlroy

>> info groff gives semantics for including nonempty files that don't end >> with newline. Such files violate the Posix definition of text file. >> >> Although groff is certainly justified in providing semantics for >> non-Posix text, I suggest that it should warn when it does so. > That's true but I'm hesitant to put groff in the business of wagging its > finger at users feeding it non-strictly-conforming text files when doing > so doesn't cause it any problems. Causing groff problems is an odd criterion. The fact that groff will paste files together unless the first happens to end in a newline is a sign of groff 's internals, not of the underlying problem. A newline missing at the end of a file is typically a symptom of either the incaution of some other program (perhaps an editor) or of a file having been unexpectedly truncated (as by a program abort). The latter cause is common enough to justify warning always, not just about cases that are inconvenient to groff. Groff is what it is, but if the treatment of absent final newlines were up for grabs, I'd argue for the more common solution: in all cases insert a newline and warn. Doug

2 weeks, 1 day

Marc Rochkind's article on SCCS has been published

by Nelson H. F. Beebe

The March 2025 issue of an IEEE journal has published Marc Rochkind's article on SCCS. TUHS list members discussed a draft version of the article last fall. Here is its BibTeX entry: @String{j-IEEE-TRANS-SOFTW-ENG = "IEEE Transactions on Software Engineering"} @Article{Rochkind:2025:RSC, author = "Marc J. Rochkind", title = "A Retrospective on the {Source Code Control System}", journal = j-IEEE-TRANS-SOFTW-ENG, volume = "51", number = "3", pages = "695--699", month = mar, year = "2025", CODEN = "IESEDJ", DOI = "https://doi.org/10.1109/TSE.2024.3524947", ISSN = "0098-5589 (print), 1939-3520 (electronic)", ISSN-L = "0098-5589", bibdate = "Tue Mar 25 08:57:56 2025", bibsource = "https://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/ieeetranssoftweng2020.bib", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, ajournal = "IEEE Trans. Softw. Eng.", fjournal = "IEEE Transactions on Software Engineering", journal-URL = "https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/RecentIssue.jsp?punumber=32", keywords = "Codes; Control systems; CSSC; Mainframes; Merging; Programming; SCCS; Software; software configuration management; Software development management; software engineering; Software engineering; software reliability; Software reliability; software tools; Source coding; source control management; version control systems", } ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe(a)math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe(a)acm.org beebe(a)computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: https://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 weeks, 3 days

Moore's Law: PDP-11 1970 vs TI's low-power small chip for under 20 cents.

by sjenkin＠canb.auug.org.au

The specs aren’t that quite equivalent: 1Kb SRAM vs 48K core memory, 32-bit vs 16-bit CPU and 24Mhz vs 1MHz, but what does that clock mean in MIPS? Anyone want to take a stab at the Moore’s Law constant over 55 years, given the specs non-equivalence? ~2.5M times price change, = 2^22 times. ===================== <https://www.nokia.com/bell-labs/unix-history/firstport.html> In 1970, they proposed buying a PDP-11 for about $65,000. [ $535,000 in 2025 according to US Inflation Calculator ] ===================== Texas Instruments Introduces MSPM0C1104 as the Smallest Available Microcontroller <https://linuxgizmos.com/texas-instruments-introduces-mspm0c1104-as-the-smal…> Measuring only 1.38mm², this wafer chip-scale package MCU is 38% smaller than existing alternatives. The MSPM0C1104 includes a 24MHz Arm Cortex-M0+ core (32-bit), 16KB of flash memory, 1KB of SRAM, a 12-bit ADC with three channels, and six GPIO pins. It also supports standard communication interfaces, including UART, SPI, and I2C. Additional features include 5V-tolerant I/Os, a 1-channel DMA controller, a CRC-16 accelerator, and various timers, including a 16-bit advanced timer and two 16-bit general-purpose timers. These MCUs operate in an extended temperature range from -40°C to 125°C and support supply voltages from 1.62V to 3.6V. The MSPM0 series starts at $0.16 in 1,000-unit quantities, with multiple configurations available. ===================== -- Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA mailto:sjenkin@canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin

2 weeks, 5 days

"Imake: an obsolete build tool" -- anybody got this?

by ron minnich

I know it's out there, I just can't find it. It's also called the "imake rhymes with mistake" paper, a nice companion to "going for baroque..."

3 weeks, 5 days

A Unix Code Walkthrough by Ken Thompson

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, I've just received a set of MP3 recordings from Bob Kridle. He says: These are recordings of Ken Thompson doing a read through of one of an early UNIX kernel code listing with a group of grad students at UC Berkeley while he was a visiting prof. there. The date is roughly 1975. I've put the recordings here along with his e-mails about the recordings: https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Recordings/1975_Unix_Code_Walkthru/ I've only just listened to the first few minutes of each. The quality is fine, but I might spend some time reducing the noise, bringing up the quiet parts and removing a few clicks and pops. If anybody else has more details of these recording, please let us know! Cheers, Warren

3 weeks, 6 days

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