On Jan 27, 23:42, lothar felten wrote:
> installation was no problem, but still i
> have some questions:
> my VT102 doesn´t do backspace, i only
> get ^H. i tried the
> terminal in ANSI and VT52 mode, no
> difference.
Maybe it wants a DEL character instead of backspace (backspace *is* ctrl-H,
shown as ^H or ^h). Change it on the terminal by going into setup, or use
stty on the BSD system to change the delete character (stty del '^h').
> i have some dec boards labeled M7513
> does anyone know what this
> is? i found:
> M7513 - RQD - RQDXE Q BUS drive
> interface extension module
That's exactly what it is. The BA23 box only supports one hard drive; the
RQDXE is an adaptor for an RXDX2 or RXDX3 to permit use of additional
drives with a distribution board in a second enclosure. One of the 50-pin
connectors goes to the RQDX3, one to the distribution board in the BA23,
and the third to a connector kit on the rear panel of the BA23. There's a
different version for an RQDX1, called an RQDX1E.
> the RQDX3 has another connector, i
> suppose for RX50 floppydrive.
An RQDX3 has only one connector, the 50-pin one to go to the distribution
board. Are you looking at the right thing? Are you looking at a
distribution board? That does have a 34-way connector for a floppy.
> can i hook up a 5,25" pc drive? maybe
> with modifications?
Not an ordinary PC floppy, no. A TEAC FD55GFR is an 80-track double-sided
drive (not HD, though) that will work as an RX33. Some other 80-track
5.25" drives may work, if you set the jumpers.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
.. and I'm actually still alive, although only barely... :)
I'll respond to Michael in email, and summarize here..
--f
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@minnie.tuhs.org]
> Sent: maandag 28 januari 2002 23:09
> To: Michael Werner
> Cc: PUPS mailing list
> Subject: Re: [pups] Problems booting PDP11/40 using vtserver
>
>
> In article by Michael Werner:
> > I have my PDP11/40 connected to a MicroVAX 2 (running NetBSD/vax
> > 1.5.2) via serial line and want to boot a 2.9BSD or 2.11BSD
> using the
> > vtserver software.
> > When I toggle in vtserver's boot code, the first file is
> being loaded
> > correctly by the PDP. Then, following the instructions in vtserver
> > documentation, the serial line should be used as a serial
> console - and
> > some text should appear! And this is the problem: I don't
> get any output.
> > So, my question: Does anybody know what's going wrong here?
> > Thanks in advance - Michi
>
> I've passed the baton of Vtserver development over to Fred van Kempen.
> However, which version of Vtserver are you using?
>
> Cheers,
> Warren
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
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On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 02:43:53PM -0500, bwc(a)borf.com wrote:
> Regarding the few comments in Ken's kernel--I always found the great--you
> can get the Lyons' commentary which may be another reason for doing Sixth.
My thoughts exactly funnily enough.
Pondering just this over the weekend has left me wondering whether
MiniUnix would be a better initial place to start - as its essentially
V6, but without memory management or pipes. Which as a starting point
for the experiment may be an easier place to start.
Thoughts anyone?
Also as a sideline, I don't know how the list owner of this list
feels about this discussion potentially swamping the list. If this
is an issue or other readers of the list are sick and tired of the
current ruminations please feel free to let me know and I will create
a mailing list on the list manager here at UKC. That way those of
us who are regarded as sad, mad or just plain losers can take our
mutterings somewhere else.
:-)
Paul
I've managed to boot the latest 4.3-Quasijarus0a on Bob Supnik's SIMH
VAX emulator. SIMH emulates a MicroVAX 3000, which is one of the
currently supported configurations in 4.3-Quasijarus.
The way I did it was:
First I installed NetBSD 1.5.2/vax on the VAX emulator. I used this to
label and newfs the root/usr diskimage for 4.3-Q (it is important to use
the -O option to newfs so that NetBSD will create a 4.3-style
filesystem. (In all cases, I used RA90 disk images, which are nice and
spacious and which both netbsd and 4.3-Q seem to work well with.) Then
I restored the root and usr filesystems from the 4.3-Q distribution onto
these diskimages, and used the /usr/mdec/installboot command in NetBSD
to install the bootblock onto the root diskimage. I created an fstab
for it, and also commented out everything in rc* having to do with the
network (there's no network device support in SIMH VAX yet). I also
commented out all gettys listed in /etc/ttys except for console.
Speaking of console, it's important to use something which is as close
to a VT-100 as possible. I've been using rxvt, which is pretty good.
It seems to be important to disable the RL controller ("set rl disabled"
in SIMH) when booting the GENERIC kernel. Otherwise, you get a page
fault and panic on boot. (I haven't tracked the cause of this down
yet). The GENERIC kernel also expects there to be images on ra0, ra1
and ra2 (which are rq0, rq1 and rq1 in SIMH, respectively).
I can get the system to come up in multiuser mode, and I can log in as
root. Unfortunately, though, after a few seconds, the system locks up
with
uda0: lost interrupt
uba0: reset uda0
uda0: DMA burst size set to 4
ra0: uda0, unit 0, size = 2376153 sectors
Typing ^E to get to the SIMH prompt, and single-stepping the emulator
shows it is stuck in the idle loop. At this point, nothing short of
shutting down SIMH has any effect.
Any thoughts on what might be going wrong? The complete log is included
below:
--Mirian
KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7
Performing normal system tests.
40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..
24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09..
08..07..06..05..04..03..
Tests completed.
>>>boot dua0:
(BOOT/R5:0 DUA0)
2..
-DUA0
1..0..
loading boot
Boot
: /vmunix
327204+103384+130352 start 0x23a8
4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #0: Sat Oct 2 22:15:38 CDT 1999
msokolov@luthien:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
real mem = 67076096
SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 18
avail mem = 65240064
using 18 buffers containing 147456 bytes of memory
MicroVAX 3000, ucode rev 6
uda0 at uba0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15
uda0: version 3 model 3
uda0: DMA burst size set to 4
ra0 at uda0 slave 0: mydisk, size = 2376153 sectors
ra1 at uda0 slave 1: no disk label: ra90, size = 2376153 sectors
ra2 at uda0 slave 2: no disk label: ra90, size = 2376153 sectors
ra3 at uda0 slave 3: floppy
dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 didn't interrupt
dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 didn't interrupt
dz2 at uba0 csr 160120 didn't interrupt
dz3 at uba0 csr 160130 didn't interrupt
Changing root device to ra0a
WARNING: todr too small -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!
Automatic reboot in progress...
Sun Aug 19 18:07:26 CDT 2001
/dev/ra0a: 429 files, 5504 used, 26548 free (52 frags, 3312 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation)
/dev/rra0d: 2588 files, 21064 used, 968769 free (785 frags, 120998 blocks, 0..0% fragmentation)
Sun Aug 19 18:07:58 CDT 2001
checking quotas: done.
starting system logger
preserving editor files
clearing /tmp
standard daemons: update cron.
starting local daemons:.
Sun Aug 19 18:08:01 CDT 2001
4.3 BSD UNIX (kryluk) (console)
login: root
Last login: Sun Aug 19 17:52:53 on console
4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #0: Sat Oct 2 22:15:38 CDT 1999
Welcome to UNIX!
erase ^?, kill ^U, intr ^C
# uda0: lost interrupt
uba0: reset uda0
uda0: DMA burst size set to 4
ra0: uda0, unit 0, size = 2376153 sectors
> >http://hp.openwatcom.org/ftp/zips/ for the binaries
> >http://hp.openwatcom.org/ftp/docs/ for PDFs of the documentation
>
> Cool!
Thanks.
> Still, no source code => not much use for porting Unix, unless you
> want to be limited to cross-compiling from DOS. (Making the Watcom
> binaries run under v6 Unix seems very unlikely since they probably
> use fancy 32-bit extenders that know all sorts of esoterica about
> DOS memory management...)
The reason I want the compiler is that it will generate standalone
16 bit code on a sensible platform. GCC doesnt produce 16 bit
code as far as I am aware - so personally I thought it would be
amusing (I must be mad) to use tools that run under DOS (well OS/2).
> Someone else on the mailing list suggested using old versions of
> Tanenbaum's Minix, which has a different set of compilers; again
> the problem is, no compiler source code last time I looked at Minix.
>
> So far the only viable compiler suggestion seems to be the one
> from Warner Losh who recommended bcc. (Or, port the PDP-11 compiler
> yourself.)
I think we are looking at this from different ends, let me try and explain:
Initially we need to be able to compile the kernel/system so it runs,
I feel that updating the code to ANSI C and using a modern compiler
will do the job for that.
Eventually it would be nice to be able to get v6-i86 (or whatever we
call it) to boot itself and then be able to compile itself - at that
point it becomes a complete project.
It is however essentially two projects:
1. rewriting the OS so it boots as i86
2. (re)writing a compiler that will run native and be able to compile
the OS on its own platform
The second part is not essential by any means, but it could by the
purists be considered the ultimate goal.
Paul
> > I'm fairly sure things like "=+" and so on were replaced with "+="
> > in the move from V6 to V7.
>
> I thought so too, but I checked, and there are some still in there.
I think you'll find that the kernel code is clean, but a lot of the older
utilities will show their earlier lineage (including the C compiler)
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 03:27:25AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote:
>
> gcc can compile K&R, but the language has evolved some since the v7
> days. =*, =+, etc became *=, +=, etc. There are some other subtle
> things too that I don't recall off the top of my head, but which vexed
> the comp.lang.c news groups in the early 1980's.
I'm fairly sure things like "=+" and so on were replaced with "+="
in the move from V6 to V7. I think structure assignments were added
here too, and the much more obscure, being able to declare passed
arguments in the function preamble as "register." I believe K&R
reflects the C language as seen with V7...
-- Ken
Actually I have 8086 C compilers on my old Altos systems (486 and 586)
running Xenix.
The OS on the 486 is a very early version of Xenix which is really a
slightly modified version of v7.
If the machine still works (has not been turned on for a few years), I may
be able to set it up so that it can be accessed through a terminal server
off the internet so that it can be used to do compiles.
I think that Microsoft may own the copyrights on these old compilers (not
sure), but it would be nice if the source was publicy available (or even
binaries).
If the machine still works (has not been turned on for a few years), I may
be able to set it up so that it can be accessed through a terminal server
off the internet so that it can be used to do compiles.
The 486 with v7 has an 8086, 512k memory, 12Meg hard disk. With the full V7
OS, including c (lex, yacc, ...) , troff, and some Microsoft add-ons
(fortran, cobol, mutimate??) fits in 7 Meg.
Grant Maizles
P.S. The 486 and 586 names refer to the number of supported users which the
machine can handle and the fact that it has a 8086 CPU. The configs were
486 5 Serial ports (1 for a printer)
586 6 Serial ports
I had a customer with a 986 which had 10 serial ports.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. Warner Losh [mailto:imp@village.org]
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 7:54 AM
> To: mike(a)ducky.net
> Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386
>
>
> In message: <200201301952.g0UJq0E39966(a)ducky.net>
> Mike Haertel <mike(a)ducky.net> writes:
> : >Anyhow I have started gathering the tools (Watcom C compiler now
> : >open source and free! www.openwatcom.org)
> :
> : They have announced that it *will be* open source and free,
> : but so far as far as I can tell there is nothing available
> : at openwatcom.org except a binary-only patch to upgrade
> : the last commercial version 11 to 11.0c.
> :
> : So, it isn't yet. Right now it's just vaporware.
>
> The only compiler I know of that deals properly with generating 16-bit
> x86 code is bcc, which the Elks folks use to build their kernel. This
> is Bruce Evan's compiler with support for prototypes bolted on, iirc.
>
> http://www.cix.co.uk/~mayday/
>
> It is a tad Linux centric, but I was able to get it to build with only
> a few tweaks on FreeBSD. It is sufficient to build the elks tree, but
> I've not tried it on anything else.
>
> Warner
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
I think that v7 would be far easier to port than v6. Although it's not much
bigger than v6, the code is a lot cleaner, and there are less machine
dependencies. One of the reasons for a lot of the changes between v6 and v7
was a conscious effort to make it more portable . The old assignment operators
like '=+' changed to "+=". 'Unsigned' and 'long' data types are missing
from v6 (and reflected in the kernel), so all integer calculations were 16
bits. Unsigned ops were done using 'char *'. v7 was ported to the Vax and the
Interdata.
ioctl is there, and the 'standard io' library. The file seek call in v6 had
either block (512) or byte offsets, and v7 introduced lseek to replace it. Only
16 bits were used to store block numbers in inodes, so filesystem sizes were
restricted (not a real problem since both v6 and v7 could run happily on a 2.5Mb
RK05 disk, including swap space and c compiler). 'vi' ran under v7, but v6 only
offered 'ed' (or variants like 'em') and 'qed'
If you hadn't guessed, v7 is by far my favourite Unix variant. Lean, clean and
without the latter clutter of supporting networking in the kernel.
On Jan 30, 16:03, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > Maybe it wants a DEL character instead of backspace (backspace *is*
ctrl-H,
> > shown as ^H or ^h). Change it on the terminal by going into setup, or
use
> > stty on the BSD system to change the delete character (stty del '^h').
>
> On a real VT100 you cannot get the delete key to generate a backspace. He
> must be pressing the backspace key, or he's not using a VT100 at all, but
> instead some emulator, which isn't doing things the VT100 way...
Of course. I've spent too long using my VT420. A real VT102 has separate
delete and backspace keys. Probably he's using some not-really-VT102
emulation in an xterm window or some emulator.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
