TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

6420 discussions

Re: [TUHS] Distributions directory and UCB, and missing ftp site

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net> > 2.11BSD" > "up to the current patch level can be obtained via anonymous ftp to" > "ftp.iipo.gtegsc.com in the directory /pub/2.11BSD" > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > I have tried connecting to it, and my client tells me it does not exist. But Indeed. That's the trouble/curse of the Internet - it's not possible to go around and fix/change all the references to names that change as companies get bought/sold That was a long long (quad_t? ;)) time ago. GTE sold their Government Systems Corporation ('gsc') to General Dynamics several years ago. After a while GTE of course insisted we stop using 'gtegsc' - then a little later GTE became Verizon. Try "ftp.to.gd-es.com" For now. The idjits in charge are playing at reorganizing and I think sometime next year the domain name will change yet again - but the hope is that the current name will be retained for a while as a compatibility measure. > Steve, are you continuing the work described in the file? And can you get It's been a slow couple years - only a couple updates done last year and only one or so this year. Current patchlevel's at 442 (done Jan 2002). Yes, the archive of updates is maintained. I think there are a couple mirrors but I have no accurate count of who is mirroring the directory Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

22 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Warren Toomey

In article by Sven Dehmlow: > Hi Warren, > I can't find the port [of V6 to the 286] in the archives. > Am I'm too stupid to search or haven't you added it yet? > Sven My apologies, I had forgotten to import it. It's now available at http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/V6on286 with the mirror sites to follow soon. Cheers, Warren

22 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] Other operating systems on the PDP-11

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > In article by Greg 'groggy' Lehey: > > The big issue is address space. It's difficult enough shoehorning > > 2.11BSD onto the PDP-11. It's well-nigh impossible to retrofit 32 bit > > operating systems. But Steven M. Schulz will doubtless give you a > More specifically, the issue is data space. Using overlays, you can > have a process with more than 64Kbytes of instruction space on a PDP-11, > but the maximum data space that a process can have is 64Kbytes. > > The kernel is in a similar situation, but with some PDP-11 models > there is kernel mode and supervisor mode, giving you two separate > 64Kbytes instruction + 64Kbytes data address spaces (and overlays > to increase the I space). > > I can't see Linux fitting into 128K of data space, and GCC is definitely > out of the question. Besides, 2.11BSD already looks pretty close to 4BSD :-) Well said Warren. The D (data) space is the most severe constraint on adding any new feature to 2.11BSD. Besides, as Warren mentioned, most of 4.3BSD as well as a few bits&pieces of 4.4 are already present. A couple years ago I toyed with the idea of porting over the 4.4BSD tty subsystem (it'd be real nice to have termios and 8bit clean serial line handling). The 'struct tty' almost tripled in size! Even doing major surgery and leaving out a couple less useful capabilities the growth in 'struct tty' exceeded what is left available in 2.11's kernel D space. Oh, I should point out the limit for the kernel's D space is even lower than the 64KB mentioned. Of that 64KB the I/O page has to, of course, be mapped in at all times or the kernel wouldn't have access to the memory management registers, device registers, and so on. Then the kernel has to have access to 'struct u' (the per process context area - part of the address space is also where the kernel stack is kept). So, 64 - 8 - 8 = 48. The kernel has a total of 48KB of data space to use. There are a few "tricks" that are played. Some data structures are allocated external to the kernel's D space. That data is mapped in as needed. Slows things down of course since it does take a number of instructions to save the current memory manangement status, change it to access the external data, fetch the data, restore the mmu registers. Things such as the 4.3BSD disc quota system were implemented this way. There is at the present time an absolute maximum on the size of the I (instruction/text) space of 56K + (15*8)KB or 176KB (base segment of 56KB and 15 overlays of 8KB each. At present, depending on how many drivers and so on are configured, about 9 or 10 overlays are used to build a 2.11 kernel. The actual limit of kernel size that can be booted is a bit lower due to how the boot process functions - in order to simplify the memory manangement during booting the boot code relocates to 192KB. The sum of the kernel text plus initialized data (but not the .bss segment) can not exceed 192KB or the boot code will be overwritten. Another complicating factor comes from UMR (Unibus Mapping Registers) handling - if the boot code ever runs above 256KB then UMR handling would have to be done by the boot code on UNIBUS machines (Qbus machines of course don't have this problem since they don't have UMRs to contend with). GCC (all of the GNU stuff actually) was written with, I believe, "malloc aforethought" ;) It's outright hostile to 16 bit machines. There might be a few bytes free to add a feature or two to 2.11BSD but much more than that would mean a lot of work to come up with some free D space for the data structures that would be needed. Cheers, Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

22 years, 7 months

Other operating systems on the PDP-11

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine I've got a question for those of you, who work more in that field then I.Has anyone successfully gotten, say, NetBSD, or anything along the lines of the 4.4 series to run on a PDP-11? Granted I don't think it would work there, because of the way its hardware was constructed. Or for that matter, say Linux? Since the Simh collection builds easily on Linux, I was thinking that it would be relatively simple to do so. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"

22 years, 7 months

SCO then Caldera

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine The web site links, that contain the SCO location, now point to a site on Caldera's site. I tried e-mailing someone via their contacts page, but so far to no avail. Has anyone on the list had any favorable response, regarding the ability to access their archives of the older versions of UNIX? As always, I am interested in the versions of UNIX that are targeted towards the PDP-11. Seriously though, has anyone actually gotten any feedback from Caldera? Warren if you want to comment, please do so, and I'll even accept a private one. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"

22 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6

by Wolfgang Helbig

Gregg C Levine: >gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of >commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help. Here is a transcript: PDP-11 simulator V2.9-10 sim> set rl0 rl02 sim> show rl0 RL0, 5242KW, not attached, write enabled, RL02 sim> att rl0 unix_v6.rl02 sim> show rl0 RL0, 5242KW, attached to unix_v6.rl02, write enabled, RL02 sim> boot rl0 !unix unix v6 11/23 mem = 99 KW max = 63 # Good Luck, Wolfgang Gregg C Levine: >gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of >commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help. Here is a transcript: PDP-11 simulator V2.9-10 sim> set rl0 rl02 sim> show rl0 RL0, 5242KW, not attached, write enabled, RL02 sim> att rl0 unix_v6.rl02 sim> show rl0 RL0, 5242KW, attached to unix_v6.rl02, write enabled, RL02 sim> boot rl0 !unix unix v6 11/23 mem = 99 KW max = 63 # Good Luck, Wolfgang

22 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Thank you for your kind advice, Warren. However, I have tried most of the other members of that directory, and yes, it does work. I am curious about this one, because it appears to be decidely different then say an actual distribution of V6. I am also looking at the ones that came from the Research area. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren Toomey" <wkt(a)minnie.tuhs.org> To: "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6 > In article by Gregg C Levine: > > On the FTP site, is a a V6 distribution contributed by Tim Shoppa. It is > > created for the PDP-11/23, and there is a good readme.txt file that explains > > the different images, and how they got there. However, has anyone actually > > gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of > > commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help. > > I have mine, built using the MingW compiler, and this is version 2.9-10. > > Also, if anyone has gotten it to boot on real hardware, that would a be a > > great plus. > > Gregg, I'd first try the other V6 boot images found in: > > http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Boot_Images > > e.g v6_rl02_unknown.gz > > to make sure that they will boot with the Supnik emulator. > You might also find that the Supnik emulator can't emulate > an 11/23. So I would also try the Ersatz emulator and set > it's CPU to be a 23. > > In other words, try a known bootable image first, then > try Ersatz-11 as an 11/23 on that same bootable image, > and then try Tim Shoppa's image. > > Warren >

22 years, 7 months

The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6

by Gregg C Levine

Hello again from Gregg C Levine On the FTP site, is a a V6 distribution contributed by Tim Shoppa. It is created for the PDP-11/23, and there is a good readme.txt file that explains the different images, and how they got there. However, has anyone actually gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help. I have mine, built using the MingW compiler, and this is version 2.9-10. Also, if anyone has gotten it to boot on real hardware, that would a be a great plus. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)worldnet.att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"

22 years, 7 months

FW: Missing pack from the UnixV6 distros based at the TUH site

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers Forwarded from a posting on news:alt.sys.pdp-11 that I made. Rather then repost the entire message in perpetuity I decided to forward the whole business to this list. As I am still deciding the best way to make use of the whole file tree, without an actual machine living here, I decided to download everything to this one, and then wait. Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)att.net "How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?" "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8(a)att.net> wrote in message news:<20020625121449.XOEM20423.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@who>... > Hello from Gregg C Levine > Has anyone actually found this to happen? The TUH ftp site, has on it, a > number of actual distributions for UNIX for the PDP-11. One of them was > assembled by Tim Shoppa from a discarded machine. They were > subsequently uploaded to that site. However on of the packs is missing. > It is this one, "xxdp_with_1123.rl02: XXDP+ on RL02 pack, bootable." > That is from the README file associated with the entire directory. > Everything else is there, that one is not. What did happen to it, I wonder. > Gregg C Levine drwho8(a)att.net > >

22 years, 7 months

Re: [pups] Real ZOO web site, welcome! ID<sxsvCplqqlh1wxkv1ruj>

by Warren Toomey

In article by Dave Horsfall: > On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Randy Merkel wrote: > > Golly, I think we have a spammer ;) > Either he/she/it took the trouble to subscribe (few do), or the list > is wide open; if the latter, expect more crap. Open no more, and I have to approve subscriptions too :-) Warren

22 years, 7 months

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TUHS