14 Feb
2025
14 Feb
'25
8:36 p.m.
So in most technical circles and indeed in the research communities surrounding
UNIX, the name of the system was just that, UNIX, prefixed often with some
descriptor of which stream, be it Research, USG, BSD/Berkeley, but in any case
the name UNIX itself was descriptive of the operating system for many of its
acolytes and disciples.
However, in AT&T literature and media, addition of "System" to the end of
the
formal name seemed to become de facto if not de jure. This can be seen for
instance in manual edits in the early 80s with references to just "UNIX" being
replaced with variations on "The UNIX System", sometimes haphazardly as if done
via a search and replace with little review. This too is evident in some
informative films published by AT&T, available on YouTube today as
"The UNIX Operating System" and "UNIX: Making Computers Easier to
Use"[1][2].
Discrepancies in the titles of the videos notwithstanding, throughout it seems
there are several instances where audio of an interviewee saying
"The UNIX System" were edited over what I presume were instances of them simply
saying UNIX.
I'm curious if anyone has the scoop on whether this was an attempt to echo the
"One Bell System" and related terminology, marketing tag lines like
"The System is the Solution", and/or the naming of the revisions themselves as
"System <xyz>". On the other hand, could it have simply been for clarity,
with
the uninitiated not being able to glean from the product name anything about it,
making the case for adding "System" in formal descriptions to give them a
little
bit of a hint.
Bell Labs folks especially, was there ever some grand thou shalt call it
"The UNIX System" in all PR directive or was it just something that organically
happened over time as bureaucratic powers at be got their hands on a part of the
steering wheel?
- Matt G.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0
[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
14 Feb
14 Feb
8:40 p.m.
UNIX is a trademark and as such, it's an adjective and needs a noun to go with it.
Unix operating system is okay. Unix system is more descriptive. It's a intellectual
property thing.
Brantley
On Feb 14, 2025, at 3:36 PM, segaloco via TUHS
<tuhs(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
So in most technical circles and indeed in the research communities surrounding
UNIX, the name of the system was just that, UNIX, prefixed often with some
descriptor of which stream, be it Research, USG, BSD/Berkeley, but in any case
the name UNIX itself was descriptive of the operating system for many of its
acolytes and disciples.
However, in AT&T literature and media, addition of "System" to the end of
the
formal name seemed to become de facto if not de jure. This can be seen for
instance in manual edits in the early 80s with references to just "UNIX"
being
replaced with variations on "The UNIX System", sometimes haphazardly as if
done
via a search and replace with little review. This too is evident in some
informative films published by AT&T, available on YouTube today as
"The UNIX Operating System" and "UNIX: Making Computers Easier to
Use"[1][2].
Discrepancies in the titles of the videos notwithstanding, throughout it seems
there are several instances where audio of an interviewee saying
"The UNIX System" were edited over what I presume were instances of them
simply
saying UNIX.
I'm curious if anyone has the scoop on whether this was an attempt to echo the
"One Bell System" and related terminology, marketing tag lines like
"The System is the Solution", and/or the naming of the revisions themselves
as
"System <xyz>". On the other hand, could it have simply been for
clarity, with
the uninitiated not being able to glean from the product name anything about it,
making the case for adding "System" in formal descriptions to give them a
little
bit of a hint.
Bell Labs folks especially, was there ever some grand thou shalt call it
"The UNIX System" in all PR directive or was it just something that
organically
happened over time as bureaucratic powers at be got their hands on a part of the
steering wheel?
- Matt G.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0
[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
8:57 p.m.
You've got that right, although I learned that from a different
perspective. A Unix magazine I contracted for was contacted more than once
by AT&T legal saying "Unix" is an adjective, not a noun. I didn't know
about the connection with copyright.
Rik
On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 1:40 PM Brantley Coile <brantley(a)coraid.com> wrote:
UNIX is a trademark and as such, it's an
adjective and needs a noun to go
with it. Unix operating system is okay. Unix system is more descriptive.
It's a intellectual property thing.
Brantley
On Feb 14, 2025, at 3:36 PM, segaloco via TUHS
<tuhs(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
So in most technical circles and indeed in the research communities
surrounding
UNIX, the name of the system was just that, UNIX,
prefixed often with
some
descriptor of which stream, be it Research, USG,
BSD/Berkeley, but in
any case
the name UNIX itself was descriptive of the
operating system for many of
its
acolytes and disciples.
However, in AT&T literature and media, addition of "System" to the end
of the
formal name seemed to become de facto if not de
jure. This can be seen
for
instance in manual edits in the early 80s with
references to just "UNIX"
being
replaced with variations on "The UNIX
System", sometimes haphazardly as
if done
via a search and replace with little review.
This too is evident in some
informative films published by AT&T, available on YouTube today as
"The UNIX Operating System" and "UNIX: Making Computers Easier to
Use"[1][2].
Discrepancies in the titles of the videos
notwithstanding, throughout it
seems
there are several instances where audio of an
interviewee saying
"The UNIX System" were edited over what I presume were instances of them
simply
saying UNIX.
I'm curious if anyone has the scoop on whether this was an attempt to
echo
the
"One Bell System" and related
terminology, marketing tag lines like
"The System is the Solution", and/or the naming of the revisions
themselves as
"System <xyz>". On the other
hand, could it have simply been for
clarity, with
the uninitiated not being able to glean from the
product name anything
about it,
making the case for adding "System" in
formal descriptions to give them
a little
bit of a hint.
Bell Labs folks especially, was there ever some grand thou shalt call it
"The UNIX System" in all PR directive or was it just something that
organically
happened over time as bureaucratic powers at be
got their hands on a
part of the
steering wheel?
- Matt G.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0
[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
10:45 p.m.
the bell labs legal vacillated between
1company private,
2 intellectual property
3 trademark.
1 is a secret, 2 is noun and 3 is an adjective.
each change came with replacing a thousand
notices in the code.
On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 12:57 PM Rik Farrow <rik(a)rikfarrow.com> wrote:
You've got that right, although I learned that
from a different
perspective. A Unix magazine I contracted for was contacted more than once
by AT&T legal saying "Unix" is an adjective, not a noun. I didn't
know
about the connection with copyright.
Rik
On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 1:40 PM Brantley Coile <brantley(a)coraid.com>
wrote:
> UNIX is a trademark and as such, it's an adjective and needs a noun to go
> with it. Unix operating system is okay. Unix system is more descriptive.
> It's a intellectual property thing.
>
> Brantley
>
> > On Feb 14, 2025, at 3:36 PM, segaloco via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
> >
> > So in most technical circles and indeed in the research communities
> surrounding
> > UNIX, the name of the system was just that, UNIX, prefixed often with
> some
> > descriptor of which stream, be it Research, USG, BSD/Berkeley, but in
> any case
> > the name UNIX itself was descriptive of the operating system for many
> of its
> > acolytes and disciples.
> >
> > However, in AT&T literature and media, addition of "System" to the
end
> of the
> > formal name seemed to become de facto if not de jure. This can be seen
> for
> > instance in manual edits in the early 80s with references to just
> "UNIX" being
> > replaced with variations on "The UNIX System", sometimes haphazardly
as
> if done
> > via a search and replace with little review. This too is evident in
> some
> > informative films published by AT&T, available on YouTube today as
> > "The UNIX Operating System" and "UNIX: Making Computers Easier
to
> Use"[1][2].
> > Discrepancies in the titles of the videos notwithstanding, throughout
> it seems
> > there are several instances where audio of an interviewee saying
> > "The UNIX System" were edited over what I presume were instances of
> them simply
> > saying UNIX.
> >
> > I'm curious if anyone has the scoop on whether this was an attempt to
> echo the
> > "One Bell System" and related terminology, marketing tag lines like
> > "The System is the Solution", and/or the naming of the revisions
> themselves as
> > "System <xyz>". On the other hand, could it have simply been
for
> clarity, with
> > the uninitiated not being able to glean from the product name anything
> about it,
> > making the case for adding "System" in formal descriptions to give
them
> a little
> > bit of a hint.
> >
> > Bell Labs folks especially, was there ever some grand thou shalt call it
> > "The UNIX System" in all PR directive or was it just something that
> organically
> > happened over time as bureaucratic powers at be got their hands on a
> part of the
> > steering wheel?
> >
> > - Matt G.
> >
> > [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0
> > [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
>
>
14 Feb
14 Feb
9:46 p.m.
On 2025-02-14 15:40, Brantley Coile wrote:
UNIX is a trademark and as such, it's an
adjective and needs a noun to go with it. Unix operating system is okay. Unix
system is more descriptive. It's a intellectual property thing.
This is correct.
UNIX is currently listed as a trademark of the Open Group in the USPTO
(https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87120150&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATI…)
with the following statement: "The certification mark, as used by
persons authorized by the certifier, certifies that the goods have met
the specifications and standards identified in the certifier's Product
Standard."
Incidentally, if you search for unix, you find boatloads of Unix
trademarks that have nothing to do with s/w (such as sunglasses,
zippers, drawing instruments, ...)
S.
Brantley
On Feb 14, 2025, at 3:36 PM, segaloco via TUHS
<tuhs(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
So in most technical circles and indeed in the research communities surrounding
UNIX, the name of the system was just that, UNIX, prefixed often with some
descriptor of which stream, be it Research, USG, BSD/Berkeley, but in any case
the name UNIX itself was descriptive of the operating system for many of its
acolytes and disciples.
However, in AT&T literature and media, addition of "System" to the end of
the
formal name seemed to become de facto if not de jure. This can be seen for
instance in manual edits in the early 80s with references to just "UNIX"
being
replaced with variations on "The UNIX System", sometimes haphazardly as if
done
via a search and replace with little review. This too is evident in some
informative films published by AT&T, available on YouTube today as
"The UNIX Operating System" and "UNIX: Making Computers Easier to
Use"[1][2].
Discrepancies in the titles of the videos notwithstanding, throughout it seems
there are several instances where audio of an interviewee saying
"The UNIX System" were edited over what I presume were instances of them
simply
saying UNIX.
I'm curious if anyone has the scoop on whether this was an attempt to echo the
"One Bell System" and related terminology, marketing tag lines like
"The System is the Solution", and/or the naming of the revisions themselves
as
"System <xyz>". On the other hand, could it have simply been for
clarity, with
the uninitiated not being able to glean from the product name anything about it,
making the case for adding "System" in formal descriptions to give them a
little
bit of a hint.
Bell Labs folks especially, was there ever some grand thou shalt call it
"The UNIX System" in all PR directive or was it just something that
organically
happened over time as bureaucratic powers at be got their hands on a part of the
steering wheel?
- Matt G.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0
[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
10:47 p.m.
The lawyers insisted that Unix be upper case and only used as an adjective.
Also, to attempt to make others go along, they applied the rule to other
companies' trademarks too. At one point we were putting together a
commemorative issue of the Bell Labs Technical Journal to include some old
papers that would do well collected together, and the lawyers tried to edit
the old papers to honor the new rules. Dennis objected furiously: their
coinage of "PDP-11 computer system UNIX System file system" was multiple
bridges too far. It was hard to rile Dennis, and eventually they realized
this and pulled back. But sheesh, that was inane.
"The UNIX Programming Environment" was the title of bwk's and my book, and
that took some doing too.
I spent literal years of my time at Bell Labs dealing with lawyers. Years.
Only to have others tell me that I should have asked the lawyers to do
something different, assuming I hadn't tried. It could make one cry in
frustration.
-rob
On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 7:37 AM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
So in most technical circles and indeed in the
research communities
surrounding
UNIX, the name of the system was just that, UNIX, prefixed often with some
descriptor of which stream, be it Research, USG, BSD/Berkeley, but in any
case
the name UNIX itself was descriptive of the operating system for many of
its
acolytes and disciples.
However, in AT&T literature and media, addition of "System" to the end of
the
formal name seemed to become de facto if not de jure. This can be seen for
instance in manual edits in the early 80s with references to just "UNIX"
being
replaced with variations on "The UNIX System", sometimes haphazardly as if
done
via a search and replace with little review. This too is evident in some
informative films published by AT&T, available on YouTube today as
"The UNIX Operating System" and "UNIX: Making Computers Easier to
Use"[1][2].
Discrepancies in the titles of the videos notwithstanding, throughout it
seems
there are several instances where audio of an interviewee saying
"The UNIX System" were edited over what I presume were instances of them
simply
saying UNIX.
I'm curious if anyone has the scoop on whether this was an attempt to echo
the
"One Bell System" and related terminology, marketing tag lines like
"The System is the Solution", and/or the naming of the revisions
themselves as
"System <xyz>". On the other hand, could it have simply been for
clarity,
with
the uninitiated not being able to glean from the product name anything
about it,
making the case for adding "System" in formal descriptions to give them a
little
bit of a hint.
Bell Labs folks especially, was there ever some grand thou shalt call it
"The UNIX System" in all PR directive or was it just something that
organically
happened over time as bureaucratic powers at be got their hands on a part
of the
steering wheel?
- Matt G.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0
[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
10:55 p.m.
The lawyers insisted that Unix be upper case and only used as an
adjective.
That is required for trademarks. A trademark has to be an adjective
describing a generic noun.
11:14 p.m.
On Friday, February 14th, 2025 at 2:55 PM, Ron Natalie <ron(a)ronnatalie.com> wrote:
The lawyers insisted that Unix be upper case and only
used as an adjective.
That is required for trademarks. A trademark has to be an adjective describing a generic
noun.
I'm now reminded of Streams vs STREAMS. The current project I'm working on at
work is similarly shouted when written despite internal references being an old
crusty name in more natural casing that we all still use within the team.
This is why I love the UNIX story, it helps me rationalize things in my day to
day...or perhaps understand others rationale which is anything but to me...
- Matt G.
11:16 p.m.
The adjective story is neither a fact nor a law codified by statute. It is
just one approach lawyers use to try to prevent trademarks becoming
generic. There are others.
Also, I probably left some ™ markers out of the coinage I quoted.
-rob
On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 9:55 AM Ron Natalie <ron(a)ronnatalie.com> wrote:
*The lawyers insisted that Unix be upper case and only
used as an
adjective.*
That is required for trademarks. A trademark has to be an adjective
describing a generic noun.
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