On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 6:55 PM John Cowan <cowan(a)ccil.org> wrote: Indeed, the Vibroplex key is called a "bug". I suspect this has something to do with its appearance more than anything else, though (it kinda sorta looks like, er, a bug). - Dan C.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-institute/ieee-history/did-you-know-edison-co… Like Edison, she (Grace Hopper) was recalling the word’s older origins in the Welsh bwg, the Scottish bogill or bogle, the German bögge, and the Middle English bugge: the hobgoblins of pre-modern life, resurrected in the 19th century as, to paraphrase philosopher Gilbert Ryle, ghosts in the machine. Electrical circuits can have "bad connections" so I do wonder if Edison coined this word based on "ghost like" faults that magically appear and disappear! -- Bakul

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu> wrote: And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form "böggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman", American English "boogeyman". Or borrowed one way or the other: there is so much borrowing and convergence in the Germanic languages around the North and Baltic Seas that if we did not know the older varieties of these languages we would never be able to work out just how they are related. John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan(a)ccil.org Unless it was by accident that I had offended someone, I never apologized. --Quentin Crisp

Steffen Nurpmeso wrote in <20210618210047.5uogF%steffen(a)sdaoden.eu>: |John Cowan wrote in | <CAD2gp_So8VQE4ApVSAHmNgQOKNGbaBbaizovxweu2+DJnx-NKQ(a)mail.gmail.com>: ||On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu> \ ||wrote: ||> (Only to clarify that „bögge“ is not a German word to the best of my ||> knowledge. I was looking, as it sounded so »northern«, || ||And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form ||"böggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman", American ||English "boogeyman". Or borrowed one way or the other: there is so much ||borrowing and convergence in the Germanic languages around the North and ||Baltic Seas that if we did not know the older varieties of these languages ||we would never be able to work out just how they are related. | |This surely leads to nowhere without going into detail, and that |is hard in respect to the dramatical losses that happened on |archives etc., due to whatever reason. You may confuse personal |opinion. That happens. Hrhrm. Also it was shortly before the museum was torn into pieces. Who knows what the journalist asked? Mary Brandel?? Ferry Cross The Mersey, so to say. When i try to interpret the actual "sound" of that timeline[1], then "..Hopper is also credited.." sounds like an addition that crossed one's mind, out of the actual timeline topic, and so it *seems to me* as if the collocutor could not be blamed. Says my gut. [1] https://books.google.de/books?id=Y-SUlMt64SoC&pg=PT70&lpg=PT70&… A nice weekend i wish from Germany, --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)

Den lör 19 juni 2021 kl 15:36 skrev Harald Arnesen <skogtun(a)gmail.com>: "Bög" means a homosexual male in Sweden also. It used to be derogatory but has been adopted by the gay community itself, so it's really just descriptive now (although I'm pretty sure kids still use it as an insult). Niklas

Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote in <20210619075735.GQ23809(a)eureka.lemis.com>: |On Friday, 18 June 2021 at 16:19:37 -0400, John Cowan wrote: |> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu> \ |> wrote: |> |>> (Only to clarify that ???bögge??? is not a German word to the best \ (Your mail was LATIN1 yet the data was not it seems.) |>> of my |>> knowledge. I was looking, as it sounded so »northern«, |> |> And so it is: it's Low Saxon, and also exists in the compound form |> "böggel-mann", plainly cognate to British English "bogeyman", American |> English "boogeyman". | |Well, there are ways to check these things, especially since Steffen |came up with alternatives. As they say, â␦␦Was weiÃ␦ Duden?â␦␦. | |From https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Boeoegg: | | wohl gekürzt aus älter schweizerisch Böggelmann, Bölimann = | Schreckgestalt, Kobold, Herkunft ungeklärt; vgl. als ähnliche | Bezeichnung englisch bog(e)y (man) = Schreckgespenst, litauisch | bužỹs = (ausgestopfte) Schreckgestalt | |In other words, a Swiss German word with a derivation similar to what Well, informative. I am not a Germanist. But *i* do not *think* that a Swiss (Alemannian?) word "Böögge" (that i never have heard, a Carnival Goblin mask, see [1-4], where [2-4] are "Larve"nmasken, referring to "Gespenst" aka "Ghost") is related to the family name "Bögge" in mostly northern Germany. Schwaben/Alemannen on the one hand, and Sachsen, Friesen, Westfalen, Franken and who knows which tribes live "normally" where the name distributes[5]. At [5] one can see a very small piece of land at the bottom, near Lake Constance, where the name distributes. Maybe someone was thrilled after visiting that land during Carnival and decided to move there -- haha! --, i do not know. You know, Alemannen Carnival, they sing things like "kill the cat!" or something, and have cat fur on their belt! Listen, Hackers!! ...yeah, twenty years ago there was an uprising all across Germany after Alemannian Carnival was shortly seen in the most widely watched TV news, iirc, where such a masked one was jumping around and singing this. Searching the net i find mostly nothing but [6], and there you can read Miau-Zunft Freiburg 1. Die Website www.miau-zunft.de ist nicht mehr erreichbar. Die Zunft hat bundesweit Proteste ausgelöst, da sie gewagt hatte, im Internet auf ihre Katzenfell-Hästradition hinzuweisen 2. Zum BZ-Artikel vom 22.12.2001: Katzenjammer bei der Miau-Zunft 3. Auch unser Gästebuch wurde vom Katzenjammer erfasst. Wie soll dies weitergehen? Sagen Sie uns doch Ihre Meinung 4. Beim Rosenmontagsumzug am 11.2.2002 war die Miau-Zunft nicht feige und trotz aller Bedrohungen tapfer dabei. Aber nur im Käfig-Wagen. Welch ein Katzenjammer! That is not that, but nonetheless, part of the nationwide protests ("bundesweit[e] Proteste") that seems to have been. Cancel culture, everywhere. You need a lobby though, fur animals usually not have; nor have cows, pigs, chicken, it is your fault you have to read this vegetarian pamphlet. Coming back to "Böge" [7] aka "Boege" [5] as a name, together about 1100 entries twenty years ago (data from 2002). For [7] there are some more in the Alemannian / Swabian area. I do not know. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Narrenzunft_Tettnang_Hopfennarr_Narrent… [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Tsch%C3%A4gg%C3%A4ttu-L… [3] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larve_(Maske)#/media/Datei:Picswiss_BS-50-23.… [4] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larve_(Maske)#/media/Datei:Biss.jpg [5] http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Boege_(Familienname) [6] https://freiburg-schwarzwald.de/littenweiler/narren.htm [7] http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/B%C3%B6ge_(Familienname) |you expected. I hadn't expected that (the Swiss connection). The OED |entry is way out of date (1887) and has nothing useful to say except: | | Found in literature only recently; old people vouched (1887) for its | use in the nursery as early as 1825, but only as proper name (sense | 1). Possibly a southern nursery form of bogle , boggle , and boggard | , or going back like them to a simpler form which, as mentioned | under bog n.1 and bogle n., may be a variant of bugge , bug n.1 | â␦␦terror, bugbear, scarecrowâ␦␦. But in the absence of evidence, | positive statements concerning its relation to these words cannot be | made. --End of <20210619075735.GQ23809(a)eureka.lemis.com> Harald Arnesen wrote in <2419313d-a951-ba2d-48a4-6b0bf225f2eb(a)gmail.com>: |Steffen Nurpmeso [18.06.2021 23:00]: | |> To me it sounds rather like a modification of "Bogen", which can |> mean quite some different things itself, from a "bend" (so the |> profession of a wood-bender comes to mind at a glance, "böge" is |> also the conjugation of "bending" "er böge" thus "he would bend") | |In Norway, "bøg" is an older, derogative description of a homosexual |male. Fits in with the German meaning "bent". Hmmm. Well, given the zappiness and horniness that often can be found in this corner, the losses we had due to the golden Californian gang bangs, let me only think of the wonderful Bruce Chatwin here, there it maybe was a rape, it is terrible!, but given the sheer amount of popping and other drugs in this culture i am better silent know. |Hilsen Harald --End of <2419313d-a951-ba2d-48a4-6b0bf225f2eb(a)gmail.com> Niklas Karlsson wrote in <CAK6BEgd4yehsSXxpSPCwaR=V=Pa4jrr94tyVPpR7vy6_aUZ_dw(a)mail.gmail.com>: |Den lör 19 juni 2021 kl 15:36 skrev Harald Arnesen <skogtun(a)gmail.com>: ... |> In Norway, "bøg" is an older, derogative description of a homosexual |> male. Fits in with the German meaning "bent". | |"Bög" means a homosexual male in Sweden also. It used to be derogatory |but has been adopted by the gay community itself, so it's really just |descriptive now (although I'm pretty sure kids still use it as an insult). So *i* could *imagine* Norwegians pronounce their "bøg" and Svedes pronounce their "Bög" maybe a bit like "Bock", short and tough. Bo-ck, not Booo-ck (english: not buuuu-ck, o!=u), or so. The German "Bock" is a "Ram", the "Böckchen" its minimization (often not advisable!), and ramification of a Ram is often seen as desirable (wham! bam! thank you ma'am!, though that false jobsite, in this case). Rams they have in Friesland aka Low Saxony. Oh, the wonderful "Heidschnucke" ("German heath"), yes, [s]he lives there, a "northern short-tailed [Heh! sic] sheep". These horns can "bocken" aka "buck"ing aka is in the season. |Niklas --End of <CAK6BEgd4yehsSXxpSPCwaR=V=Pa4jrr94tyVPpR7vy6_aUZ_dw(a)mail.gmail\ .com> Ah nice weekend everybody. Ciao from Germany (albeit Hesse[n]), --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)

Niklas Karlsson wrote in <CAK6BEgd1rRUqMh_k69tPZ6Av=e3DHJ7jd_Zn_GKpzqh0M=7K-A(a)mail.gmail.com>: |Den lör 19 juni 2021 kl 17:48 skrev Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu>: | |> So *i* could *imagine* Norwegians pronounce their "bøg" and Svedes |> pronounce their "Bög" maybe a bit like "Bock", short and tough. |> Bo-ck, not Booo-ck (english: not buuuu-ck, o!=u), or so. |> The German "Bock" is a "Ram", the "Böckchen" its minimization |> (often not advisable!), and ramification of a Ram is often seen as |> desirable (wham! bam! thank you ma'am!, though that false jobsite, |> in this case). | |No, not really. It's a long "ö" and the g is a g, not a k/ck. (Not as sure |of the Norwegian term, |but if I had to guess I'd say the same there. I should have known that. I had a tremendous Sverige experience in my childhood (despite the football world championship 1958 of course, bad that not so good). It is even online at [1], a Friese (Friesian) going; starting at second ~60 there is Italian, Japanese, French, and then Swedish around second 77. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPoiL4UF__0 Thank you. Ciao from Germany, and a nice Sunday i wish. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)

Folks, can we move this discussion elsewhere? It's gotten way off topic. Thanks, Arnold Harald Arnesen <skogtun(a)gmail.com> wrote: