On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 10:45:38AM -0700, Jon Forrest wrote: If there are any young kids on the list for whom this would be helpful I'll happily pay for the book to go to you.

It's a bit funny (at least for me) because I was talking about DECNET as OSI standard and TCP/IP and OSI differences some days ago to the group of students of a course on network operation that I am teaching. On the other hand I don't that book about networking. I'd like to get one copy bit I live in Spain. Shipment is not a problem but perhaps to deal with shipping procedures abroad is not what you have in mind :-) Cordiales saludos / Best Regards / Salutations / Freundliche Grüße ----- Sergio Pedraja Senior Technician in Computer Science, Systems Administration, and Information Security. MBA. Qualified occupational trainer. El mié., 28 ago. 2019 20:24, Kurt H Maier <khm(a)sciops.net> escribió:

Although I never have seen OSI in the wild, it was the one great thing about ‘Winsock’ is that it worked over TCP/IP , IPX/SPX, AppletTalk and Decnet. It was fun to convert a BBS from being telnet to some ‘telnet over decnet’ monster I built. Although I’m guessing OSI would have allowed for common ‘network’ applications to use different network topologies? I really need to get OSF/1 2.0 installed. From: SPC Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 3:30 AM To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] ISO, OSI, and DECnet (was Re: If not Linux, then what?) It's a bit funny (at least for me) because I was talking about DECNET as OSI standard and TCP/IP and OSI differences some days ago to the group of students of a course on network operation that I am teaching. On the other hand I don't that book about networking. I'd like to get one copy bit I live in Spain. Shipment is not a problem but perhaps to deal with shipping procedures abroad is not what you have in mind :-) Cordiales saludos / Best Regards / Salutations / Freundliche Grüße ----- Sergio Pedraja Senior Technician in Computer Science, Systems Administration, and Information Security. MBA. Qualified occupational trainer. El mié., 28 ago. 2019 20:24, Kurt H Maier <khm(a)sciops.net> escribió: On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 10:24:51AM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote: This book taught me as much about navigating bureaucracy and the warning signs of impending death-by-committee as it did about networking.  I keep a copy on my shelf at the office and annoy my staff with it regularly.  It's also a wonderful time capsule that provides a lot of context about how we got where we are. khm

Besides DECnet, IIRC, in the USA the only semi-large (required) use of OSI was for TOP [Technical Office Protocol] and MAP [manufacturing automation protocol] that GM and Boeing tried to ram down the industries virtual throat. At Masscomp, we had already built an OSI/X.25 interface for Europe, but since I ran Datacom and these folks were definitely my target customers for a real-time system, I had to listen to them. I spent way too many hours in GM and Boeing conference rooms dealing with it. By memory, the arguments for MAP over ethernet was the later was considered 'unpredictable', they claimed they all had to have fiber on the manufacturing floor, and were convinced that TCP/IP had 'too much overhead' for real-time automation. I never really understood the justification of why TOP was needed, other than there were a bunch of folks in both places running DECnet and there was a huge level of NIH. When I was at Masscomp, I don't think we ever sold many systems into GM. But our stop-gap for Ford was to use Protean fiber-based boards on the manufacturing floor and continued to run TCP on top it, and our traditional Ethernet was just fine by them, "thank you." Since Ford Aerospace was our partner for building the new Mission Control at NASA (we ran redundant ethernet there), they were already pretty familiar with our Ethernet and IP stack products, so they took over working with the folks inside of Ford. Shortly thereafter, Masscomp and Apollo won the bid for the Boeing 7J7 program (which became the 777 when it shipped). The agreed (common) interface between all three firms was Ethernet and IP. [**] I left for Stellar, but I don't think they ever built either the MAP/TOP or any of the rest of the OSI stuff besides X.25, funny how they stopped asking for it. I still have a binder of all the TOP specs in my basement. [**] An interesting factoid that I thought of while writing this reply. One thing I learned from working with Boeing during that time is that until that program, the C5A and the 747-400 were the only two airplanes that could carry their documentation as a payload. The paper required for the FAA weighed that much. One of the justifications of the 7J7 was they had gotten approval from the FAA to make all of the documentation delivered electronically. It was the first plane they designed 100% using CAD and no paper or other models. Masscomp systems on the manufacturing floor, and Apollo's in the engineering offices.