I'm trying to set up a cross-development environment for 2.11BSD
(running under 4.4BSD), and I've run into trouble because the
assembler's written in, well, assembler. It would be Real Convenient
if I could find an assembler written in C. Does anybody know of one?
Greg
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>From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Thu Mar 12 01:29:23 1998
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From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199803111529.KAA26566(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Does anybody have an assembler in C?
To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:29:23 -0500 (EST)
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In-Reply-To: <19980311163735.37825(a)freebie.lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 11, 98 04:37:35 pm
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility
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Tim Shoppa I believe is familiar with the "chip" or "sunchip" tar bundle
that contained a PDP-11 C compiler, assembler and loader. I could swear
the assember was in C - I am sure because I recall fighting with all the
code to port it a long time ago to another UNIX box. Now I was the jerk
that kept saying "gee that C compiler sure looks a lot like the V6/V7
C compiler" (yeah I know they are different - I never bothered to go into
the details of precisely which one it matched more closely). If Tim
does not still have the contents I know I've got it archived away and
can fetch that part for you. -- Ken
| From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Mar 11 01:16:07 1998
|
| I'm trying to set up a cross-development environment for 2.11BSD
| (running under 4.4BSD), and I've run into trouble because the
| assembler's written in, well, assembler. It would be Real Convenient
| if I could find an assembler written in C. Does anybody know of one?
|
| Greg
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Thu Mar 12 02:36:33 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803111636.AA08101(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Does anybody have an assembler in C?
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:36:33 -0800 (PST)
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In-Reply-To: <199803111529.KAA26566(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> from "Ken Wellsch" at Mar 11, 98 10:29:23 am
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> Tim Shoppa I believe is familiar with the "chip" or "sunchip" tar bundle
> that contained a PDP-11 C compiler, assembler and loader.
Vaguely. I'll try to track down the exact reference - I'm not
sure whether your referring to the DECUS C package or not.
> code to port it a long time ago to another UNIX box. Now I was the jerk
> that kept saying "gee that C compiler sure looks a lot like the V6/V7
> C compiler" (yeah I know they are different - I never bothered to go into
> the details of precisely which one it matched more closely).
I seem to recall that the DECUS C compiler is written in MACRO-11 assembly -
and pretty much a straight translation of the V6/V7 C compiler - but
with different run time libraries for RSX and RT-11. Does
this ring a bell? Or am I completely on the wrong track?
Tim.
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Thu Mar 12 04:21:00 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803111821.AA19967(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Does anybody have an assembler in C?
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:21:00 -0800 (PST)
Cc: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca
In-Reply-To: <9803111636.AA08101(a)alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 11, 98 08:36:33 am
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> > Tim Shoppa I believe is familiar with the "chip" or "sunchip" tar bundle
> > that contained a PDP-11 C compiler, assembler and loader.
>
> Vaguely. I'll try to track down the exact reference - I'm not
> sure whether your referring to the DECUS C package or not.
Taking a quick look at the DECUS C package, I see that isn't the answer.
There's an "as"-style assembler there written in MACRO-11, though :-).
I think you were referring to the XINU-11 package available by anonymous
ftp from sunsite:
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/xinu
in particular, if you look in
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/xinu/
unpacked/src/cmd/as11
you'll find the "as11" sources in C, specifically written for BSD4.3 on
a VAX.
I have to admit that I'm not fully aware of the copyrights regarding
the XINU package. If research shows that this is freely distributable,
is this something we'd want to distribute through the PUPS archive,
Warren?
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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>From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Thu Mar 12 04:22:47 1998
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From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199803111822.NAA31588(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Does anybody have an assembler in C?
To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:22:47 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <9803111636.AA08101(a)alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 11, 98 08:36:33 am
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility
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Tim,
No, the DECUS C compiler is a very different kettle of fish. Sorry to
be so vague - I can only go by memory now as all my archived info is on
CD-ROM's at home. Back in the mid to late 80's a few folks made available
a bundle put together by the folks at Purdue I think - I believe it was
related to Dr. Comer (sp?) and the Xinu stuff - but this bundle was
intended to provide a compiler environment on SunOS systems of the mid
80's to teach lower level system stuff - I've forgotten if it related
to simulating an 11 or was instead just for a cross-compiler environment
to build Xinu mini-kernels on faster platforms to then download to the LSI
11 testbed. One place I picked it up (via FTP) called it "sunchip.tar.Z"
or similar, while another I think just called it "chip.tar.Z."
I mentioned you only because I do remember grabbing it from your sunsite
archive while you were still at Caltech and later sending e-mail WRT the
licensing thing.
-- Ken
| From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Mar 11 11:45:28 1998
|
| > Tim Shoppa I believe is familiar with the "chip" or "sunchip" tar bundle
| > that contained a PDP-11 C compiler, assembler and loader.
|
| Vaguely. I'll try to track down the exact reference - I'm not
| sure whether your referring to the DECUS C package or not.
|
| > code to port it a long time ago to another UNIX box. Now I was the jerk
| > that kept saying "gee that C compiler sure looks a lot like the V6/V7
| > C compiler" (yeah I know they are different - I never bothered to go into
| > the details of precisely which one it matched more closely).
|
| I seem to recall that the DECUS C compiler is written in MACRO-11 assembly -
| and pretty much a straight translation of the V6/V7 C compiler - but
| with different run time libraries for RSX and RT-11. Does
| this ring a bell? Or am I completely on the wrong track?
|
| Tim.
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU> Thu Mar 12 06:25:03 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>
Message-Id: <199803112025.HAA16016(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Does anybody have an assembler in C?
To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:25:03 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9803111821.AA19967(a)alph02.triumf.ca> from Tim Shoppa at "Mar 11, 98 10:21:00 am"
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In article by Tim Shoppa:
> I have to admit that I'm not fully aware of the copyrights regarding
> the XINU package. If research shows that this is freely distributable,
> is this something we'd want to distribute through the PUPS archive,
> Warren?
>
> Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
Xinu is freely distributable, as long as it's not sold as a competing
product to Doug Comer's book. It's in the archive.
Another solution for a assembler in C is some stuff I've got from a
Russian, who `ported' either cc or pcc to a Sparc, as a cross-compiler.
Greg, have a look in .miscfiles. If someone can make some order out of
this, I'll put it in the archive.
To the PUPS readers, there is a whole lot of stuff I've got but I haven't
added into the PUPS ARchive as yet:
+ System V (SCO license doesn't include it)
+ copyright stuff I haven't cleared it's release yet
+ unsorted jumble Someone has to categorise this
I could put the unsorted jumble into the PUPS Archive. Yes or no?
P.S Woke up to a barrage of email today. Wading thru it....
Warren
On Mar 8, 11:35, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> A non-legal question: the system identifies itself as "v6" when it
> boots, but there is a "v7.h" header file in the /sys directory.
> Is this maybe really a V7 system? Or maybe from an era when the
> trnasition from V6 to V7 was being made? Datestamps on the files
> are from 1982.
That would cerainly put it well into the v7 era 9by thre years). But there
were several differences, as I'm sure Tim knows, and some people didn't change.
I'd guess this one has back-ported some v7 stuff onto what was otherwise a
'legacy' system.
I think the RL02 drivers were written in Boston for v7 (or am I thinking of the
RX02 driver?). Maybe v7.h has something to do with allowing this driver to be
used?
> Note that although the system was generated for a 11/23, it's
> running on a 11/73. The fact that it has more memory than "max" seems
> to confuse the system horribly when it goes into multi-user mode. Short
> of doing a lobotomy, is there any way to get around this?
I don't know, but if anyone else does, please tell! My 11/23 system has a
kernel panic if I try to run it on an 11/73 (by swapping out the CPU board).
> # LS GAMES
> ADVENT CHESS CUBIC TTT WUMP
> BJ CORE MOO TTT.K WUMPUS
Interesting... ADVENT is missing from my v7. Any chance of a copy?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Tue Mar 10 03:37:04 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803091737.AA13243(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: V6 RL02 images. Binary or Source?
To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:37:04 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <9803091245.ZM21377(a)indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 9, 98 12:45:16 pm
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> That would cerainly put it well into the v7 era 9by thre years). But there
> were several differences, as I'm sure Tim knows, and some people didn't change.
> I'd guess this one has back-ported some v7 stuff onto what was otherwise a
> 'legacy' system.
>
> I think the RL02 drivers were written in Boston for v7 (or am I thinking of the
> RX02 driver?). Maybe v7.h has something to do with allowing this driver to be
> used?
Well, this is what V7.h says:
#DEFINE V7CODE 7 /* IF COMPILING V7 COMPATIBLE CODE */
#DEFINE V7 (U.U_SYSTEM == V7CODE)
and this is what a config file looks like:
# CAT CONFIG.MLAB
# CONFIGURATION FOR EXTENDED CARE PATHOLOGY SYSTEM WITH RL
CONSOLE
SYS
MEM
RL
RX2
ROOT RL 0
SWAP RL 0 19000 1480
CPU 23
FPU
DL 5
LTC
It also looks like there's support in the sources for 11/34's and 11/45's,
in addition to the 11/23:
# CD CONF
# LS
ADEVS C.C DATA.S L-MLAB.S MAKE-MLAB
BDEVS C.TM F23.O L.S MAKEFILE
CDEVS C23.C F23.S L23.S MKCONF.C
MAKEFILE CONFIG F45.S M23.S SYSFIX
C-MLAB.C CONFIG.AWK KDWORD.S M34.S SYSFIX.C
C-MLAB.O CONFIG.MLAB L-MLAB.O M45.S
> > Note that although the system was generated for a 11/23, it's
> > running on a 11/73. The fact that it has more memory than "max" seems
> > to confuse the system horribly when it goes into multi-user mode. Short
> > of doing a lobotomy, is there any way to get around this?
>
> I don't know, but if anyone else does, please tell! My 11/23 system has a
> kernel panic if I try to run it on an 11/73 (by swapping out the CPU board).
Maybe it is the CPU and not the memory that's causing the problem - I was
probably a bit premature in jumping to the conculsion about the memory
(perhaps my 2.9BSD experiences aren't applicable here.)
> > # LS GAMES
> > ADVENT CHESS CUBIC TTT WUMP
> > BJ CORE MOO TTT.K WUMPUS
>
> Interesting... ADVENT is missing from my v7. Any chance of a copy?
Sure. Warren's already moved the RL02 image to Boot_images in the PUPS
archive, and at some point someone (me? Warren?) might find enough
copious free time to strip out the sources.
The big problem with this V6 system at the moment is that I can't find
the 'mount' executable. I suspect that the system manager might have removed
or (more likely) renamed it as a security precaution. (Security? Unix?
well, you can try...) I'd like to mount one of the user disks on a
second RL drive, but without 'mount' this is hard. Anyone have any ideas?
"/dev/rl1" is real and works fine, as I can "od /dev/rl1" without a problem.
# MOUNT /DEV/RL0 /MNT
MOUNT NOT FOUND
# CD /
# LS -A
. ETC MNT RX UNIX.RXRL
.. FIXOWNER MNT1 SRC UNIX.TMP
.MAIL HMBOOT MNT2 SYS USR
.PROFILE JUNK NAMES TMP V7BOOT
A.OUT LIB OLDUNIX UNIX X
BIN LIB.OLD OLDUNIX.25.7 UNIX.JONES XLIB
DEV LOOP RLUBOOT UNIX.MLAB
# CAT .PROFILE
V7=YES
UMASK 002
HOME=\'PWD\'
: MAIL=$HOME/.MAIL
B=$HOME/BIN
PATH=:$B:/BIN:/USR/BIN:/USR/BIN/V7:/USR/UCB
PS1="$ "
UPTIME
: 'ECHO -N "FORTUNE: "; /USR/GAMES/FORTUNE'
# LS /BIN
A DB GREP NEWGRP SH.V7
ANVART DC HELP NM SH.YALE
AR DCHECK ICHECK OAS SIZE
AR-NEW DD IF OCC SORT
AR-OLD DF KILL OD STRIP
AS DISKCOPY L OLDCHEF STTY
AT DISKCOPY.OLD LD OLS SU
AWK DSW LINK OPR SUM
BAS DU LIST OXY SYNC
BYE DUMP LN PASSWD TIME
CAT E LOGIN PGS TP
CC ECHO LPR PR TP.OLD
CDB ED LS PS TS
CHGRP EXIT LST RESTOR TTY
CHMOD F MAIL REW UNIQ
CHOWN FC MAKE RM WHO
CLRI FF MENU RMDIR WRITE
CMP FILE MKDIR SH XTP
CP FS MV SH.BELL XY
CSH FTN NCC SH.DEFAULT
DATE GOTO NCHECK SH.TEST
# LS /USR/BIN
! DIFF GSI NCCC SPLIT
STTY DIFFDIR HACK NICE SRCCOM
AC DITTO HEAD NMS STARTLP
ARCV DOSCVT HEX NOHUP STOP
ASA DOSDT IGNORE NOPARITY STRINGS
BANNER DOUBLE INDEX NROFF SYSMON
BASIC DOWN INFO OFFLINE TABEXP
BATCHCARDS DRIBBLE IUL ONLINE TABS
BC DSTAT JOIN PARITY TB
BCD DTC KWT PF TCON
BCPIO DTCOPY LABELS PFE TEE
BCPL DTFS LAST PFSH TOASA
BEEP ENTER LC PFWAIT TOUCH
C EOT LENGTH PG TR
CAL ERASE LIBGEN PLOT TRIM
CAP EXPAND LIBSORT PLOTTER TSET
CCC FDB LINES PP TT
CHDATE FED LINKER PPR TX4010
CHEF FERR LISP PROF TXOFF
CHK FEXPR LOADVFU PT TXON
CKDIR FIELDS LOC PWD TYPO
CLEAR FILDES LOCK QP U2L
COL FIND LONG RADPK UC
COLS FIX LPI RC UNARCV
COMM FIXLEN M2U READPPT V0CVT
COST FMT M2U.OLD REFS V7CVT
CPALL FMT_INDEX M6 ROFF VT125PLOT
CPIO FMTCARD MAN RTDT WC
CREF FMTINDEX MARK RTLD WHERE
CRPOST FMTSORT MESG RULER WIPE
CRYPT FOLD MNTBIN RUN WRAP
CS FORM MPLOT RX2FMT XFS
CS2 FSIZE MPLOT.HIDDEN RXFMT ZERO
CTL GAMES MTS SA
CVTRT GENDATE MTSFS SKULK
DBL GRAB MVDIR SLEEP
# LS /USR/BIN/V7
/USR/BIN/V7 NOT FOUND
# LS /USR/UCB
MAIL DRIBBLE.OUT GREP PIX SSP
APROPOS EX HEAD PRINT STRINGS
ASTAGS EX.OLD IUL PRINTENV TMP
CKDIR EXPAND LAST PTAGS TOD
CLEAR EYACC LOCK PX TRA
CLOCK FLEECE LS PX34 TSET
CR3 FMT.UCB MAKEWHATIS PXP UNTMP
CTAGS FOLD MAN PXP34 VI
CXREF FROM MKSTR PXREF W
DAYTIME FTAGS MSGS RESET WHATIS
DIFFDIR FUNNY NUM SEE WHEREIS
DOUBLE GETNAME PI SETENV WHOAMI
DRIBBLE GETS PI34 SOELIM XSTR
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Tue Mar 10 07:24:49 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803092124.AA07849(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: V6 RL02 images. Binary or Source?
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:24:49 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <9803091737.AA13243(a)alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar 9, 98 09:37:04 am
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> The big problem with this V6 system at the moment is that I can't find
> the 'mount' executable.
Many thanks to Pete Turnbull, who pointed me towards /etc/mount.
Some of the "user" disks appear to be corrupted. Anyone care to tell
me where to find fsck?
Tim.
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>From Milo Velimirovic <milov(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu> Tue Mar 10 07:52:20 1998
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From: Milo Velimirovic <milov(a)toes.its.uwlax.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 98 15:52:20 -0600
To: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Whither fsck (was: Re: V6 RL02 images. Binary or Source?)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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Tim,
fsck doesn't exist yet in the V6 world. you want icheck and dcheck... they
need at least one argument which should be the name of a raw device
containing the filesystem you want to check. (Using the block device anme
will work but be much, much slower.)
---
Milo Velimirovic <Milo.Velimirovic(a)uwlax.edu>
Unix Computer Network Administrator (608) 785-8030
Information Technology Services -- Network Services
University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W
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>
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>From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
>Subject: Re: V6 RL02 images. Binary or Source?
>To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:24:49 -0800 (PST)
>In-Reply-To: <9803091737.AA13243(a)alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Mar
9, 98 09:37:04 am
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>
>> The big problem with this V6 system at the moment is that I can't find
>> the 'mount' executable.
>
>Many thanks to Pete Turnbull, who pointed me towards /etc/mount.
>
>Some of the "user" disks appear to be corrupted. Anyone care to tell
>me where to find fsck?
>
>Tim.
>
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Mar 10 10:40:59 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803100040.LAA10668(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Just in from Dion
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:40:59 +1100 (EST)
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Guys,
Just got this in from Dion re the license. No word as to date of
availability yet, I did say `we're waiting....' though.
I sent Dion a draft set of instructions on how to get the license.
Part of his return email goes:
> 4. For AUTHORIZED COUNTRY, I suggest writing:
>
> All countries not excluded by Section 5.2
Yes, very good. I have no idea how to find that damned
govt list. I think our reference is out of date but who
> 5. You need to list the DESIGNATED CPUs. [Do we? I can't see where
> on the draft to fill this in] If you have PDP-11 hardware,
> list the number and models of PDP-11s, e.g
No, it doesnt say that. It says that on our request, you must
furnish the list, but we dont demand it up front. In practice,
I doubt we will ever ask anyone to furnish this, much less
do an on-site visit. Of course, it might be a fun way to
win a trip to Australia if I volunteer to go on a tour to
see that our highly valuable intellectual property is
being treated right... ;-)
That sounds good to me.
Warren
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 11 13:16:06 1998
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Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:16:06 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803110316.OAA14910(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
To: unixarc(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: PDP-11 UNIX Src Licenses Available
Hello, you are receiving this mail for one of the following reasons:
+ you signed a petition urging SCO to make source licenses for
PDP-11 UNIX available
+ your filled in a survey detailing what you wanted in such a
source license
+ you are a member of the PUPS mailing list
I am glad to announce that, as a result of the petition, SCO have made
source licenses available for most versions of PDP-11 UNIX. The essential
details of the license are:
Covers research Editions 1 to 7, and 32V.
Covers derived versions of UNIX which ran on PDP-11s.
Specifically excludes System V onwards.
Full source code, binaries and documentation.
Personal, non-commercial use.
Exchange of sources and modifications to other licensees.
Non-disclosure to unlicensed people.
The cost is US$100. Details on how to obtain the license are available at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/getlicense.html
SCO will not ship any media with this license. The PDP-11 Unix Preservation
Society has a number of volunteers who are prepared to cut CD-ROMs and tapes
in order to distribute the PUPS Archive of old Unix software to licensed
people. Details about this archive are available at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/pupsfaq.html
We would like a few more licensed people to volunteer to create CD-ROMs and
tapes, to take the load off the existing volunteers.
Finally, none of this would have been possible without the immense support
which we received from Dion Johnson within SCO. He battled with the legal
eagles over a period of 18 months or so to make the license available. If
you can, please send Dion a thank you card at the address
The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
400 Encinal Street
Santa Cruz, CA 95061-1900
United States of America
Attention: Dion Johnson
This will be a surprise for him, but I'm sure he will appreciate your
thanks.
In turn, I would like to thank you all for your support. Without the
signatures on the petition, none of this would have been possible.
Warren Toomey wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 11 13:52:01 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803110352.OAA15256(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: SCO PDP-11 Licenses Available
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:52:01 +1100 (EST)
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Most of you on the PUPS mailing list should have received notice that SCO
are now selling the PDP-11 Unix source licenses we have been waiting so long
for. If not, details are on the PUPS web page, and at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/getlicense.html
We only have 6 volunteers ready to write media (CDs, tapes) holding the
archive of PDP-11 Unix material. Anybody else want to volunteer?
SCO will let us set up password-protected ftp sites. I will set up the
PUPS archive here for password-protected ftp. Would anybody else be prepared
to mirror this and also provide password-protected ftp? I'd like one
in the US and one in Europe.
Cheers all,
Warren
On Mar 5, 12:59, Stacy Minkin wrote:
> Currently I've started KDF11 and it seems to be ok.
> Problems are: It has lots of switches (the same for MSV-11 boards and
> RQDX3 and all of that)
You probably don't need to change anyhing on the RQDX3 -- they're usually set
up correctly (because they'e not often changed :-)
> Same story with RQDX3 - currently I have no RDx disks so I thought
> that boot my system from RX50 is not a bad idea... I've plugged
> standard 5 inch floppy to RQDX3 sig. dist. connector labeled "RX50"
> and fired up the machine. Got nothing.
During init, the RQDX3 probes the disk(s) to see what's there. For a floppy,
it checks for an RX50 by selecting the drive, finding track zero, and then
switching the side select. On a real RX50, which actually behaves as two
separate single-sided drives, this turns off the track zero signal; but not on
any normal drive. There's a way to fool it, but you need to modify the drive
or add a little circuitry. However, if you can find an RX33-compatible drive,
that would be more useful anyway.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Fri Mar 6 02:25:43 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803051625.AA03469(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Hardware guru needed!
To: stacy(a)asia.uznet.net (Stacy Minkin)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:25:43 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca
In-Reply-To: <199803050759.MAA00282(a)harrier.asiasys.com> from "Stacy Minkin" at Mar 5, 98 12:59:48 pm
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> Those new machine is the
> main reason for joining to this list for me.
> It includes: KDF-11 CPU, RQDX3, DHQ11 8 line async option,
> TQK70 tape controller, 1.5Mbyte of memory etc. etc.
> I also have the complete BSD2.9 source distribution
> in tar file and like to run all of the above.
Big problem: BSD2.9 doesn't support your disk (RQDX3) or tape (TQK70)
controllers. I'd suggest BSD2.11, but it doesn't run on your CPU.
> Currently I've started KDF11 and it seems to be ok.
> Problems are: It has lots of switches (the same for MSV-11 boards and
> RQDX3 and all of that) and have very little docs about
> how to set it correctly.
The best place to ask about these things would be the usenet newsgroup
vmsnet.pdp-11.
Tim.
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Mar 6 04:07:15 1998
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:07:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803051807.KAA22049(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Hardware guru needed!
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Hi -
> From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
> > Those new machine is the main reason for joining to this list for me.
> > It includes: KDF-11 CPU, RQDX3, DHQ11 8 line async option,
> > TQK70 tape controller, 1.5Mbyte of memory etc. etc.
>
> Big problem: BSD2.9 doesn't support your disk (RQDX3) or tape (TQK70)
> controllers. I'd suggest BSD2.11, but it doesn't run on your CPU.
That's almost two problems :-)
It might be possible to retrofit [T]MSCP support into 2.9 but it would
be a lot of work and a system with both MSCP and non-MSCP devices
would be required.
Swapping out the cpu card for a KDJ-11AB (M8192 if my memory hasn't
completely faded) wouldn't be too expensive and would speed things
up too. Hmmm, might need a MXV11 bootrom card. Perhaps a KDJ-11BB
would be a better way to go.
Steven Schultz
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>From "Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> Fri Mar 6 06:23:21 1998
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:23:21 -0800
From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com>
Subject: Just got V7 going on 11/83...
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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I just got V7 to load on my 11/83. Killes 2 hours playing wump.
Who says you need grpahics for games?
:)
Anyway, I know there's no source liscense yet, but can I get someone to
build a kernel for me? I wouldn't have to see source... It'd be real neat
to hang this off a termserver and allow telnets... I'm gonna do that
with my RSTS box real soon, the only limitation here is that V7 is only built
with support for the console.
I have the V7 image downloaded from DEC. I kermitted it to the 83, and did
COPY v7.DSK/FILE DL0:/DEVICE
It truncated something, but FSCK says the pack is fine.
I have to load RT-11 from the MSCP, then say BOOT/FOR DL0: to start V7, though
because if I tell the ROM to load DL0, it dies saying the disk isn't bootable.
But at least it runs!
-------
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>From Nickolai Zeldovich <kolya(a)zepa.net> Fri Mar 6 07:12:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:12:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Nickolai Zeldovich <kolya(a)zepa.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: PDP Prompt?
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Hello,
I'm trying to revive a PDP 11/04, but not having much luck at the moment..
I got a serial terminal hooked up to it, and upon bootup, it gives me the
following on the display:
<triangle sign><triangle sign> 177777 177776
$
apparently, $ is some sort of a prompt. It only accepts two characters,
and after, it seems, any pair of characters, will go on and give me a new
prompt.
Is this some sort of a ROM debugger? What can I tell it? I think I've
tried almost every combination of 2 letters without any success..
Some info about the PDP:
It's a 11/04, with a dual 8" floppy drive and some big cage made by MTS,
with nothing in it but a large number of slots. Has some buttons saying
'STATION 1 DUMP', 'STATION 2 DUMP', and so on.. The floppy drive has two
8" floppies in it, one of them appears to be some sort of a system floppy,
the other has no label.
Does this look like even remotely salvageable? :)
-- [ Nickolai Zeldovich // nickolai(a)zepa.net ]
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Fri Mar 6 07:52:14 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803052152.AA01812(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: PDP Prompt?
To: kolya(a)zepa.net (Nickolai Zeldovich)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:52:14 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980305160751.25074A-100000(a)orbit.zepa.net> from "Nickolai Zeldovich" at Mar 5, 98 04:12:44 pm
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> I'm trying to revive a PDP 11/04, but not having much luck at the moment..
> I got a serial terminal hooked up to it, and upon bootup, it gives me the
> following on the display:
>
> <triangle sign><triangle sign> 177777 177776
> $
>
> apparently, $ is some sort of a prompt. It only accepts two characters,
> and after, it seems, any pair of characters, will go on and give me a new
> prompt.
>
> Is this some sort of a ROM debugger? What can I tell it? I think I've
> tried almost every combination of 2 letters without any success..
Commands available at this prompt include:
L<space>nnnnnn<CR> - to set an address
E<space> - to examine the address set with L
D<space>nnnnnn<CR> - to deposit at an address set with L
S<CR> - begin running at the loaded address
The console ROM is very picky; all letters need to be in upper case,
and you need to type <space> and <CR> in exactly the right places.
It's also very stupid, in that if you try to Examine or Deposit to
a non-existent address, the only clue you get is that the RUN light on
the goes out and you have restart it from the front.
> It's a 11/04, with a dual 8" floppy drive and some big cage made by MTS,
> with nothing in it but a large number of slots. Has some buttons saying
> 'STATION 1 DUMP', 'STATION 2 DUMP', and so on.. The floppy drive has two
> 8" floppies in it, one of them appears to be some sort of a system floppy,
> the other has no label.
>
> Does this look like even remotely salvageable? :)
It'll never run a modernish Unix, but it will run RT-11 just fine.
Is the floppy controller a DEC RX211 (M8256) or RX11 (M7846) or some
third-party clone? Are there any boot ROM's on the M9312? The RX01
boot ROM is 23-753A9, and the RX02 boot rom is 23-811A9. If you've
got a third party RX clone controller, it may have the boot ROM on that
board. Try examining addresses 173000, 173200, 173400, 173600, and
171000 to see if a boot ROM might be living at any of these addresses.
As this is very non-Unix related, you might want to ask any other questions
you have on a more general PDP-11 related forum, such as the Usenet newsgroup
"vmsnet.pdp-11".
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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>From Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net> Fri Mar 6 15:34:38 1998
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From: Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net>
Message-Id: <199803060534.KAA00190(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Re: Hardware guru needed
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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>What backplane? There are 16, 18 and 22 bit address backplanes and
>using the smaller with the larger memory generally does not work and
>give an address error.
>I prefer to use part/model number like H9273(a backplane) or
>M8259(memory).
How actually distinguish these backplanes?
I can check whether extended address lines are routed to slots, if
it sufficient - ok. If not - are there more differencies?
>What you need is a copy of the dec hand books that list all those details.
>Any of the volumes from the mid to late 80s would help.
No chance to get it in xUSSR!
>Standard floppy? You can use a DEC RX50 or an RX33(teacfd55gfv). If
>using the latter *all* of the jumper must be set up correctly in the
>drive. The RX33 is a 1.2m 5.25" drive with speed select. You cannot
>use a PC 5.25 360k drive or a 3.5" drive(actually it's possible but,
>very non standard and unhelpful to you at this time).
Which logical drive address should be set on floppy?
>Unless the jumpers or switches on the RQDX3 were messed with the defalt
>addresses and config are usually the way they are set and fit for use.
The time I got RQDX3 it's address was set wrong. I've changed it immediately
but there are lots of other switches...
>For the RDxx you can use a ST225(rd31), st251(rd32), QUANTUM D540(rd52),
>micropolus 1325(rd53) or MAXTOR2990(RD54) if they are formatted correctly.
>or any other drive that matches the number of heads and cylinders of those
>listed. Note those are all MFM type drives.
Has anyone formatter?
>Allison
Stacy
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>From Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net> Fri Mar 6 15:50:05 1998
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From: Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net>
Message-Id: <199803060550.KAA00239(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Re: hardware guru needed
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>Big problem: BSD2.9 doesn't support your disk (RQDX3) or tape (TQK70)
>controllers. I'd suggest BSD2.11, but it doesn't run on your CPU.
No problem. I can write this drivers.
Pete Tornbull wrote about triggering
"TRACK0" signal in responce to triggering
"SIDE SEL". Is it the only difference?
Stacy.
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>From Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> Sat Mar 7 05:48:24 1998
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From: Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se>
To: Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Re: Hardware guru needed
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About formatter..
The VAXstation 2000 can format iron beds.
You plug in 'any' mfm drive and if the enter TEST 53.
If the machine does not recognize the drive, it will prompt you for drive
parameters.
/Lars
On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Stacy Minkin wrote:
>
> >What backplane? There are 16, 18 and 22 bit address backplanes and
> >using the smaller with the larger memory generally does not work and
> >give an address error.
>
> >I prefer to use part/model number like H9273(a backplane) or
> >M8259(memory).
> How actually distinguish these backplanes?
> I can check whether extended address lines are routed to slots, if
> it sufficient - ok. If not - are there more differencies?
>
> >What you need is a copy of the dec hand books that list all those details.
> >Any of the volumes from the mid to late 80s would help.
>
> No chance to get it in xUSSR!
>
> >Standard floppy? You can use a DEC RX50 or an RX33(teacfd55gfv). If
> >using the latter *all* of the jumper must be set up correctly in the
> >drive. The RX33 is a 1.2m 5.25" drive with speed select. You cannot
> >use a PC 5.25 360k drive or a 3.5" drive(actually it's possible but,
> >very non standard and unhelpful to you at this time).
>
> Which logical drive address should be set on floppy?
>
> >Unless the jumpers or switches on the RQDX3 were messed with the defalt
> >addresses and config are usually the way they are set and fit for use.
>
> The time I got RQDX3 it's address was set wrong. I've changed it immediately
> but there are lots of other switches...
>
> >For the RDxx you can use a ST225(rd31), st251(rd32), QUANTUM D540(rd52),
> >micropolus 1325(rd53) or MAXTOR2990(RD54) if they are formatted correctly.
> >or any other drive that matches the number of heads and cylinders of those
> >listed. Note those are all MFM type drives.
>
> Has anyone formatter?
>
>
> >Allison
>
> Stacy
>
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Mon Mar 9 05:35:55 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803081935.AA26778(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: V6 RL02 images. Binary or Source?
To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:35:55 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.980306204439.29584A-100000(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> from "Beastly Wolf" at Mar 6, 98 08:48:24 pm
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I've been sorting through some RL02's that came with a 11/23 system
that I bought at a UBC SERF sale a year or so ago. On these RL02's
there is at least one bootable V6 system, apparently generated
specifically to be run on a 11/23. This ought to be of some interest
to folks with real 11/23's with RL02 drives, as the other V6 systems
that I'm aware of don't have RL02 handlers.
Here's the question: this RL02 apparently has kernel sources in
the directories /sys/ken and /sys/dmr. Does the presence of these
files mean that I can only distribute images of this RL02 to those
with source licenses?
A non-legal question: the system identifies itself as "v6" when it
boots, but there is a "v7.h" header file in the /sys directory.
Is this maybe really a V7 system? Or maybe from an era when the
trnasition from V6 to V7 was being made? Datestamps on the files
are from 1982.
For those who are listed, a log produced while running in single-user
mode from a copy of the RL02 pack.
Note that although the system was generated for a 11/23, it's
running on a 11/73. The fact that it has more memory than "max" seems
to confuse the system horribly when it goes into multi-user mode. Short
of doing a lobotomy, is there any way to get around this?
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
b dl0
!unix
unix v6 11/23
mem = 99 KW max = 63
# CD /SYS
# LS
V7.H FILE.H LIB1 SEG.H TTY.H
BUF.H FILSYS.H LIB2 SGTTY.H USER.H
CONF INO.H PARAM.H STAT.H
CONF.H INODE.H PROC.H SYSTM.H
DMR KEN REG.H TEXT.H
# LS DMR KEN
DMR:
MAKEFILE DHFDM.O HT.O PIR.C TC.O
AD.C DN.C IC.C PIR.O TM.C
AD.O DN.O IC.O RF.C TM.O
ADOLD.C DP.C IOCTL.C RF.O TTY.C
BDREL.C DP.O IOCTL.O RK.C TTY.O
BIO.C DUP.C IR.C RK.O TTY.S
BIO.O DUP.O IR.O RL.C TTYI.C
CAT.C DZ.C KL.C RL.O TTYI.O
CAT.O DZ.O KL.O RM04.LAYOUT TTYINEW.C
CR.C FAKE.C LP.C RP.C VS.C
CR.O FAKE.O LP.O RP.O VS.O
DC.C HM.C MEM.C RX2.C VT.C
DC.O HM.O MEM.O RX2.O VT.O
DH.C HP.C OLDRL.C STAT.C XP.C
DH.O HP.O PARTAB.C STAT.O XP.O
DHDM.C HS.C PARTAB.O SYS.C XY.C
DHDM.O HS.O PC.C SYS.O XY.O
DHFDM.C HT.C PC.O TC.C
KEN:
MAKEFILE IGET.S PIPE.C SUBR.C SYSENT.C
ALLOC.C IOCTL.C PRF.C SYS1.C TEXT.C
CLOCK.C MAIN.C RDWRI.C SYS2.C TRAP.C
FIO.C MALLOC.C SIG.C SYS3.C TRAP.S
IGET.C NAMI.C SLP.C SYS4.C
# CD /USR
# LS
ADM HANNAH LEUNG OLD WHO
BATCH HARDY LIB PROGM XLIB
BIN INCLUDE LOG RAWICZ XYD
EVANS INF LPD TMP YEUNG
FORT KNOWLES MDEC UCB
GAMES KUKAN NEEDHAM WEBB
# LS GAMES
ADVENT CHESS CUBIC TTT WUMP
BJ CORE MOO TTT.K WUMPUS
# LS UCB
MAIL DRIBBLE.OUT GREP PIX SSP
APROPOS EX HEAD PRINT STRINGS
ASTAGS EX.OLD IUL PRINTENV TMP
CKDIR EXPAND LAST PTAGS TOD
CLEAR EYACC LOCK PX TRA
CLOCK FLEECE LS PX34 TSET
CR3 FMT.UCB MAKEWHATIS PXP UNTMP
CTAGS FOLD MAN PXP34 VI
CXREF FROM MKSTR PXREF W
DAYTIME FTAGS MSGS RESET WHATIS
DIFFDIR FUNNY NUM SEE WHEREIS
DOUBLE GETNAME PI SETENV WHOAMI
DRIBBLE GETS PI34 SOELIM XSTR
#
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 9 09:38:15 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803082338.KAA08954(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: FAQ of Archive of PDP-11 Unix
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:38:15 +1100 (EST)
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All,
I'm starting up a FAQ on the archive of PDP-11 Unix stuff and how to
use it. What I've got so far is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/faq1.html
but not yet linked to the other pages.
I'm happy to take other questions. I'm _very_ happy to get answers! Answers
will have attributions of course. This is a back burner thing, but I'll go
back through the mail archive and see what I can come up with.
Also note: I will add a table of contents to the top at some stage.
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 9 10:18:50 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803090018.LAA09059(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: 11/04 floppy problems
To: kolya(a)zepa.net
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:18:50 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980308190743.24989A-100000(a)orbit.zepa.net> from Nickolai Zeldovich at "Mar 8, 98 07:13:08 pm"
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In article by Nickolai Zeldovich:
> I'm having a somewhat interesting problem with my PDP-11.. I'm trying to
> boot a 11/04 from a 8" floppy drive, but DX, DX0, and DX1 all make it hang
> up (RUN light goes out). Would you know what this would mean? I'm not sure
> if this question is really appropriate for the list, sicne it's not
> UNIX-related, and I've had little luck with newsgroups (seems my newsfeed
> is quite flaky).
>
> -- [ Nickolai Zeldovich // nickolai(a)zepa.net ]
I'm punting this to the mailing list ONLY because Nickolai's news access
is limited. Can someone help him with the problem?
Warren
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>From Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> Mon Mar 9 19:11:02 1998
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From: Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
cc: kolya(a)zepa.net, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: 11/04 floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <199803090018.LAA09059(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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NIkolai!
Your problem MIGHT be because somebody shuffled the cards for you!
There are some classical caveats when it comes to the UNIBUS based system.
a) There must be an uninterrupted grant chain all the way and no holes.
b) There are two types of slots. DMA (also called a MUD or Modified
Unibus Device) and NON DMA. Default is non DMA. To enable DMA you cut a strap
on the wirewrapped backplane. (*cringe*)...
This suggests that there are also two types of GRANT cards. One resembling
a dual QBUS grant card but with green handles and one very small "playing
card type" single card with no handle that can be (with force) inserted
backwards and thus burn the bus.
c) There must be a terminator card in the last position of the chain.
I am at a customer site right now and do not have access to my library so
I can not be more specific.. If you have any documentation handy, you should
be able to use above information and find the exact information you need.
If not, you should be able to locate the faulting device by "shortening"
the bus. You start with CPU and a mem card and install the terminator
directly after. See if you can deposit and examine stuff into RAM. Then
put in the device directly after the last MEM card and test it and so forth.
Eventually the system will fail and you have located the problem.
Either remove the problem or get back to us. =)
Note: With no documentation of the devices in question you have more problems.
Some UNIBUSes are standard UNIBUSes. Others are special UNIBUSes for special
device configurations.
The UNIBUS PDP11 (or VAX) is a challange for the technically interested
person. =)
Oh yes... You can bypass devices by using the UNIBUS cable (a long stiff
white flat cable with UNIBUS connectors in each end). Each UNIBUS sub bus is
connected with the previous with a UNIBUS continuity card that consists of
a short UNIBUS cable and two dual cards joined together to form one unit.
If you want to bypass a device, take out the continuity from the start and
end of the device, install a UNIBUS cable at the last position of the
previous sub bus system and the first in the sub bus after the bypassed
device.
UNIBUS cables, continuity cards and grants (and also the terminator) all
go in the same position across the bus and in no other place.
One error here and it is BURN baby BURN! =/
/Lars
On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Nickolai Zeldovich:
> > I'm having a somewhat interesting problem with my PDP-11.. I'm trying to
> > boot a 11/04 from a 8" floppy drive, but DX, DX0, and DX1 all make it hang
> > up (RUN light goes out). Would you know what this would mean? I'm not sure
> > if this question is really appropriate for the list, sicne it's not
> > UNIX-related, and I've had little luck with newsgroups (seems my newsfeed
> > is quite flaky).
> >
> > -- [ Nickolai Zeldovich // nickolai(a)zepa.net ]
>
> I'm punting this to the mailing list ONLY because Nickolai's news access
> is limited. Can someone help him with the problem?
>
> Warren
>
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<Oh yes it does. Mine is running (with RL02s) as I type this...
<
<I wouldn't exactly describe it as "fast", but it's servicable. The syste
<(minus man pages) is on dl0: and user directories on dl1:. The system i
Ok a unique build, is that in the archive?
How about using a RQDX3 and rd52 or rd53 as its a bit more room than a
single RL?
<built for a "small machine", which makes a difference to the memory manag
<(no separate I&D spaces), and things like f77 and troff aren't there (nro
F77 is no loss but CC, vi and nroff are a must. Speed is not required.
<> suggest a way to get the images on to the RL02 using RT-11 I'm interest
<> I can kermit the files from the PC so that step is not a problem.
<
<Kermit-11 should do that for you, but watch the bad blocks.
Kermit would be running under RT-11 the all I'd be doing is copying a
tar.z file over or make the detar'd files over to files under rt-11
structures. I need more on genning a bootable image from RT-11.
While I'm comfortable in a lot of systems unix generally is not one
save for user level activity.
The only unix I have running currently is xenix on pro350 and linix
on PC. I can't say how useful either would be to this project.
Allison
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>From Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net> Thu Mar 5 17:59:48 1998
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:59:48 +0500
From: Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net>
Message-Id: <199803050759.MAA00282(a)harrier.asiasys.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Hardware guru needed!
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Hi dear PUPS!
It is about one week gone from the mome I got
sufficiently powerful PDP-11. Before this I ran LSI-11/02 under RT-11
and couldn't think about unix. Those new machine is the
main reason for joining to this list for me.
It includes: KDF-11 CPU, RQDX3, DHQ11 8 line async option,
TQK70 tape controller, 1.5Mbyte of memory etc. etc.
I also have the complete BSD2.9 source distribution
in tar file and like to run all of the above.
Currently I've started KDF11 and it seems to be ok.
Problems are: It has lots of switches (the same for MSV-11 boards and
RQDX3 and all of that) and have very little docs about
how to set it correctly. When I tried to bring up the KDF with memory
at once KDF said : no memory :-] but it runs ok with
little 32K memory board from LSI-11/2 ! Seems to me that my MSV-11 boards
have wrong starting address settings or something...
Same story with RQDX3 - currently I have no RDx disks so I thought
that boot my system from RX50 is not a bad idea... I've plugged
standard 5 inch floppy to RQDX3 sig. dist. connector labeled "RX50"
and fired up the machine. Got nothing. I tried to investigate
what happens to bootstrap. I've detected that during init of
mscp controller it successfully undergoes steps 1 and 2 ( or maybe even 3)
but in next step it returns 0 in SA and bootstrap waits for eternity
when controller will enter next step... Looks like hardware fault, ha?
Then I tried to check my TQK70 board. It had nothing connected to it,
and I traced it's initialization sequence the same way. IT ALSO RETURNS ZERO
in 3rd or 4th init step!. Can anyone help with the above?
Sincerely yours - Stacy.
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<The v7 comes on either rk05 or rl02 images.
<Earlier editions didn't know about rl02s.
Exactly my understanding and V7 doesn't run on pdp-11/23s though it is
runable on 11/73.
My interest if to have one of the many PDP-11 Qbus machines I have
running a nonDEC OS such as unix. The 11/23s would be a favored target
as I have a few of them but, devices compatable with binary versions
are not available to me.
I'll look at the archive for the RL02 images. IF there is anyone that can
suggest a way to get the images on to the RL02 using RT-11 I'm interested.
I can kermit the files from the PC so that step is not a problem.
<> Save for the rk05 image does not match my hardware (no rk05). Also sin
<> they are disk images the target disk would have to have the same bad bl
<> map or all havoc happens.
<
<Yup. These images were designed for emulators.
Understood, not much interest to me. Running a PDP-11 sim with two of
them behind me doesn't really do it for me. Running unix on a sim under
dos on a PC exceeds my grasp of reality. I'm the sort if I wanted unix
on the PC I'd install *BSD for 386/486 and skip the simulation. I think
Bob S. and friends did some great work though.
Allison
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< have a single 'master' source system and build and distribute from
< that).
For me that would be perfectly useless as the only PDP-11 compuler is the
DECUS-C and ti's far to minimal to crunch that. Chicken and egg. Right
now I need the chicken on my 11/73 before I can consider the sources
and then I have to configure enough storage to hold them.
< that everyone would be dancing with joy at being freed from binary
< only releases.
I sorta am but for me $100 might as well be $10,000.
<
< As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
< images already available without requiring a source license at
Their problem is from what I can tell is they are not runable on my
11/73 with the hardware I have. There is that little problem of
transfering them (via RT-11?).
My config, call it a sanity test to see if there is an existant binary I
can run:
11/73 1mb non-pmi ram
DLV11j
RQDX3 rx33, rx52(x2) (rx53 available)
RX02
RLV12 and one RL02
TK50
I can swap a DHV-11 for the DLV11j.
I can put in 1 more meg of non-pmi ram.
The TK50 is shared with a VAX.
RT-11 V5 running.
There are no RKxxs available.
I expect I'll never be able to network the 11s I have, nor will I have
adaquate resources (Disk) to compile the kernel. I will not discuss the
11/23 or the pro350 sitting next to them as it's been implied they could
only run the oldest versions due to lack of I&D space.
Allison
< I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
<volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
<software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.
Query:
The license is more concerned with source level code. What about those of
us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
Allison
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 4 08:36:47 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032236.JAA17613(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Binary-only PDP UNIX
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:36:47 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803032232.AA27033(a)world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Mar 3, 98 05:32:54 pm"
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In article by Allison J Parent:
> < I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
> <volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
> <software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.
>
> The license is more concerned with source level code. What about those of
> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
You can pick up binaries for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX for free,
as they are already covered by a SCO license. See
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/Licenses/v7_bin_license.txt
If you also look at the PUPS Home Page
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS
you can pick up RK05 disk images for all three edition, as part of
Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator.
Warren
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Wed Mar 4 10:54:01 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803040054.AA29624(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Some PDP11 Q..
To: jorgen.pehrson(a)seinf.MAIL.ABB.com
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:54:01 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
> ...
> And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
> ...
> There're some (bad quality) pictures of the board at
> http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum/pics/pdp11-board1.jpg
I finally got a chance to look at the picture; the board looks to me like
an MTI MSV22, which is a Q-bus board. There's no way that it's a Unibus
board. Are you sure you've got an 11/84 there, and not a 11/83?
Tim.
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Mar 4 11:17:18 1998
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:17:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803040117.RAA13880(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
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> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
> Query:
>
> The license is more concerned with source level code. What about those of
> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
If you don't plan on staying current with parts that change then
a binary only system might work. I can't see myself volunteering
to build binaries (especially kernels) for varying configurations.
The older, 'static' or frozen (for now), distributions can be run
binary only - but the traditional method of updating systems was
to either distribute diffs or replacement source modules.
One main reason for this, especially in the kernel (but also some
applications level stuff), is that the address space of a PDP-11 does
not allow the luxury of including all ways of doing something. For
example: the C library has to be build for either 'hosts' file or
resolver routines - can't do both. So someone's running a binary
only release but with a hosts file orientation. THey want updated
binaries but all my systems are resolver based - building new binaries
would be painful and time consuming. What happens when a system
include file changes and all (or many) of the binaries in the system
are affected - who's going to volunteer to recompile the system and
make a new CD for the folks who don't want to maintain current sources?
In the kernel arena it's even worse - who ever builds a kernel would
have to request a 'config' file (do you want 'quotas' or not, do you
want 'networking' and if so which ethernet card, do you want 1 or 2
MSCP controllers, and so on. Ick.) and custom build a kernel (can't
include _all_ possible devices, etc because it just won't fit). I
don't know about any one else but I'd rather not get into the
providing custom kernels and binaries.
From V5 on (I can't speak for earlier) you were expected to have a
source license (which thanks to SCO's help we now will have) and
install/maintain the system from those. Binary only setups were
extremely uncommon (except in shops with lots of machines and they'd
have a single 'master' source system and build and distribute from
that).
Configurability is very limited without sources and I'd have thought
that everyone would be dancing with joy at being freed from binary
only releases.
As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
images already available without requiring a source license at all.
There's no need to pay the minimal $100 for the upcoming license if
all that's desired is a binary only system that's preconfigured for
a limited set of devices. (re)configuration takes sources.
So I guess the question is who's volunteering to build and distribute
the binary only kits? Not me ;-)
Steven Schultz
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 4 15:37:06 1998
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To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: PDP UNIX Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PUPS Volunteers list
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On Tue, 3 March 1998 at 17:17:18 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
>> Query:
>>
>> The license is more concerned with source level code. What about those of
>> us that are interested in binaries only configured for a working system?
>
> If you don't plan on staying current with parts that change then
> a binary only system might work. I can't see myself volunteering
> to build binaries (especially kernels) for varying configurations.
>
> (omitting detailled explanation)
>
> I
> don't know about any one else but I'd rather not get into the
> providing custom kernels and binaries.
All good reasons. I suppose I could give access to an emulator over
the net if anybody wants to do it themselves. This is not the way to
go if you have your own machine with enough storage, but it might be
if you're low on storage.
> As has been mentioned before there are binary only V6, V7, and V5
> images already available without requiring a source license at
> all.
JOOI, where are these?
Greg
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Hi,
I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
It says this when it starts up:
Testing in progress - Please wait
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
starting system
.
__: ADA1: Load resident files
A.DU0: BOOT from @ 526 fp ch Memory size 2048kBytes v06.12.413
VISONIK
Building supervisory and managment system
Landis & Gyr, Building Control
__: INI0: Start of RSYS !
__:SU03: Update Common from SYSL !
__: SIX2: Dataset IM: Rebuild Index
__: SIX2: Dataset REA: Rebuild Index
__: SIX2: Dataset DM: Rebuild Index
__: MELD: Init STA-Pointer 43252
__: MELD: Init ZMS-Pointer 10774
It has controlled the ventilation system on a hospital of that can be of
any help.
Anyone knows what OS this could be?
And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
look
at the cables it seems to be SCSI. And the controller for the streamer is
not manufactured
by DEC. (There's no DEC logo on it at least.)
It says B 01079 ISS.4 1984 CTS-11 CKK 3890 on the board. Is this a SCSI
controller board?
Can I connect SCSI disks to it or is it a streamer only interface?
There're some (bad quality) pictures of the board at
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum/pics/pdp11-board1.jpg
There's a switch on the front of the CPU box that says "AUX ON | OFF". And
on the back of
the PSU there's a switch that says "remote | off | local". What function do
they have?
Thanks!
--
Jorgen Pehrson
jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Tue Mar 3 02:48:04 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803021648.AA23582(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Some PDP11 Q..
To: jorgen.pehrson(a)seinf.mail.ABB.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:48:04 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <412565BB.0036DA5F.00(a)notestest.mail.abb.com> from "jorgen.pehrson(a)seinf.mail.abb.com" at Mar 2, 98 11:30:40 am
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> I was given an PDP-11/84 but I have no idea what OS it has installed.
> __: ADA1: Load resident files
> A.DU0: BOOT from @ 526 fp ch Memory size 2048kBytes v06.12.413
> __: INI0: Start of RSYS !
> __:SU03: Update Common from SYSL !
It looks like a version of RSTS/E to me (but that's mainly because I
know it isn't RT-11 or RSX-11...)
> And another thing. This machine had a Wangtek 5150EQ tape streamer. If I
> look
> at the cables it seems to be SCSI. And the controller for the streamer is
> not manufactured
> by DEC. (There's no DEC logo on it at least.)
> It says B 01079 ISS.4 1984 CTS-11 CKK 3890 on the board. Is this a SCSI
> controller board?
It's almost certainly a QIC-02 controller, probably doing TS11 emulation.
The sure way to test if its doing TS11 emulation or not is to drop into
console ODT and see if there's something living at the TS11 CSRs at
17772520.
> There's a switch on the front of the CPU box that says "AUX ON | OFF". And
> on the back of
> the PSU there's a switch that says "remote | off | local". What function do
> they have?
These control the 3-wire DEC power controller bus.
Warren may want to correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't non-Unix issues
like these best taken to forums such as vmsnet.pdp-11 and comp.os.rsts ?
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Mar 3 09:28:19 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803022328.KAA08076(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: dionj(a)sco.COM (Dion Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:28:19 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <19980302152605.46176(a)sco.com> from Dion Johnson at "Mar 2, 98 03:26:05 pm"
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In article by Dion Johnson:
> I am going to give myself the go-ahead and not bother those busy
> legal folks any more.
Goodo.
> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
> Are VISA and AMEX enough cards to support? I should know pretty soon on this.
I suspect that would be fine.
> > Someone asked if a password-protected ftp site would be ok?
> > I thought that it might contravene the license. What's your opinion?
>
> As long as you know WHO has the password, that would be in accordance
> with the license, as I read it.
> -Dion
That's excellent news, Dion. I'll cc this to the PUPS mailing list.
Thanks again,
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Mar 3 11:54:30 1998
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:30 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Dion Johnson <dionj(a)sco.COM>
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
References: <19980302152605.46176(a)sco.com> <199803022328.KAA08076(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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On Tue, 3 March 1998 at 10:28:19 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Dion Johnson:
>> I am going to give myself the go-ahead and not bother those busy
>> legal folks any more.
>
> Goodo.
Great news!
>> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
>> Are VISA and AMEX enough cards to support? I should know pretty soon on this.
>
> I suspect that would be fine.
I would think that you should add MasterCard to that list, possibly
instead of Amexco.
Where do we go from here? Can we start to bombard you with
license applications?
Greg
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Mar 3 12:13:33 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803030213.NAA08617(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:13:33 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980303122430.47237(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 3, 98 12:24:30 pm"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> >> It looks like we may be able to permit credit cards and Intl Money Orders.
>
> I would think that you should add MasterCard to that list, possibly
> instead of Amexco.
>
> Where do we go from here? Can we start to bombard [Dion] with
> license applications?
> Greg
Dion sent me this suggestion:
So I guess what we have is this:
1. Prospective licensee gets the license from [PUPS] website.
2. He signs and sends to SCO and sends his $100 to SF PO box.
3. Someone here [at SCO] lets [PUPS] know that he is a licensee.
4. [PUPS] can send him the source code (and charge a fee for that
as you see fit).
SCO wants the license on paper. I asked him for the final license in a
form suitable for printing, e.g PostScript, PDF, Word format (gasp!).
Greg's suggestion about MasterCard went to Dion as well. I guess we just
have to sit back & wait until we get the word (and the final license)
from Dion.
As soon as I have all the details, there will be a description of the
steps you need to perform in order to get a license placed on the PUPS
home page.
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From Neil Johnson <neil(a)skatter.usask.ca> Wed Mar 4 02:32:06 1998
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From: Neil Johnson <neil(a)skatter.usask.ca>
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To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
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Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
it might be good to know.
Neil
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Wed Mar 4 03:08:37 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803031708.AA24509(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: neil(a)skatter.usask.ca (Neil Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:08:37 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt(a)CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
In-Reply-To: <199803031632.KAA00644(a)hydrus.USask.Ca> from "Neil Johnson" at Mar 3, 98 10:32:06 am
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> Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> it might be good to know.
As most all of the "new stuff" lately seems to be 2.11BSD-related,
this brings up a (probably silly) question of mine: what's the
relationship between the SCO license agreement and 2.9, 2.10, and 2.11BSD?
Will the SCO license be functionally equivalent to a WE/AT&T source
license (other than the per-machine limitations)? In other words,
are the 2BSD distributions "SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS" in the language
of the agreement?
Another stupid question: few of us (perhaps I'm the only one) have
CD-ROM readers/writers attached to PDP-11's. Will those who have to
transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
have to license the intermediary machines with SCO? In other words,
will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
CPU"s?
Tim.
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 4 07:10:42 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032110.IAA15973(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:10:42 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9803031708.AA24509(a)alph02.triumf.ca> from Tim Shoppa at "Mar 3, 98 09:08:37 am"
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Tim Shoppa:
> > Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> > way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> > stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> > it might be good to know.
>
> As most all of the "new stuff" lately seems to be 2.11BSD-related,
> this brings up a (probably silly) question of mine: what's the
> relationship between the SCO license agreement and 2.9, 2.10, and 2.11BSD?
> Will the SCO license be functionally equivalent to a WE/AT&T source
> license (other than the per-machine limitations)? In other words,
> are the 2BSD distributions "SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS" in the language
> of the agreement?
2BSDs are definitely SUCCESSOR OPERATING SYSTEMS as they are derived from
the listed products (6th, 7th Edition and 32V) and are 16-bit operating
systems.
> Another stupid question: few of us (perhaps I'm the only one) have
> CD-ROM readers/writers attached to PDP-11's. Will those who have to
> transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
> have to license the intermediary machines with SCO? In other words,
> will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
> CPU"s?
My interpretation is this:
DESIGNATED CPU means all CPUs licensed as such for a specific
SOURCE CODE PRODUCT.
SCO grants to LICENSEE a personal, nontransferable and
nonexclusive right to use, in the AUTHORIZED COUNTRY, each SOURCE
CODE PRODUCT identified in Section 3 of this Agreement, solely
for personal use [..] and solely on or in conjunction with
DESIGNATED CPUs [...]. Such right to use includes the right to
modify such SOURCE CODE PRODUCT and to prepare DERIVED BINARY PRODUCT
based on such SOURCE CODE PRODUCT,
In my opinion, you can't USE the source code unless you have a CPU which
run the machine code which is produced by the source code. I can't prepare
a DERIVED BINARY PRODUCT if I don't have a PDP-11 or an emulator of such.
I'd better check with Dion.
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 4 07:16:37 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032116.IAA16053(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead with License
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:16:37 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803031632.KAA00644(a)hydrus.USask.Ca> from Neil Johnson at "Mar 3, 98 10:32:06 am"
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In article by Neil Johnson:
> Another suggestion - keep a list of the licencees on the PUPS website. That
> way everyone would know who they could exchange software with. Most new
> stuff would probably end up on the site anyway, but during development
> it might be good to know.
This is a good idea, but I'd be happy for a licencee to opt out from the
list if they so desired.
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 4 07:49:10 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032149.IAA17305(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PUPS Volunteers list
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:49:10 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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All,
I've just created a SMALL mailing list for those people who have
volunteered to write CD-ROMs, cut tapes etc. so we can distribute the
software covered by the up-coming SCO source license.
If you had volunteered but didn't receive any email about it today, please
mail me back as I've missed you somehow.
Still waiting on Dion re the final license document and the questions
regarding Mastercard and `intermediate' CPUs.
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Mar 4 08:21:10 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803032221.JAA17553(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: From Dion: intermediate CPUs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:21:10 +1100 (EST)
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----- Forwarded message from Dion Johnson -----
> > Will those who have to
> > transfer the source kit through a PC-clone or other Unix workstation
> > have to license the intermediary machines with SCO? In other words,
> > will the intermediary machines need to be registered as "DESIGNATED
> > CPU"s?
>
> I hope not!
> Warren
Right, that makes no sense at all. I suspect we (you and I) will
want to whip up a sort of cover letter for the license that
explains how to fill out the form and, as experience accumulates,
a FAQ, etc.
-Dion
----- End of forwarded message from Dion Johnson -----
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> > Steven was expecting to see a substantial hit due to the ZIP's access time,
>
> Quite so. Especially on the 'find' which is almost pure 'seek'
> operations.
>
> Wasn't there mention somewhere of a 200mb Zip? I know there's the
> 2gb Jaz drive now but haven't heard anymore about a larger Zip. On
> the other hand there is the Syquest product line - they've a 135mb
> "zip like" (but not compatible) drive.
I don't know anything about larger Zip drives but Syquest makes the
EZFlyer 230MB which is compatible with the EZFlyer 135. I got one for
Christmas and love it. I _believe_ it's a bit faster than the Zip.
The EZFlyer data sheet is at http://www.syquest.com/products/d_ezflyer.html
in case anybody is interested.
- Jim
--
James E. Carpenter E-Mail: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 2 07:47:07 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803012147.IAA01813(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:47:07 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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All,
re the question `Are CD-ROMs the best method of distributing the
PUPS archive of PDP-11 UNIX material'? The answer is: it's a good method, for
the following reasons:
+ you can't easily write over the CD-ROM
+ impervious to magnetic fields
+ the PUPS archive is always going to be changing, as I find and
add new stuff to it.
+ the SCO license enforces that I get written permission before I
pass anything to a third party. Taking this in a conservative
fashion, this might rule out a password-protected ftp archive.
However, I'll check with Dion at SCO on this.
+ we can only charge fees for copying and distribution, and cannot
make money on the CD-ROMs
Therefore, treat the archive CD-ROM like you would the FreeBSD or Linux
distributions on CD-ROM: they will go out of date, but you can purchase
new versions of the CD-ROM, and they should be relatively inexpensive.
Ok, so CD-ROMs are not the _best_ method of distributing the archive, but
they are a _good_ way of doing so.
Ciao,
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Mar 2 08:09:25 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
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On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 8:47:07 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> All,
> re the question `Are CD-ROMs the best method of distributing the
> PUPS archive of PDP-11 UNIX material'? The answer is: it's a good method, for
> the following reasons:
>
> + you can't easily write over the CD-ROM
> + impervious to magnetic fields
> + the PUPS archive is always going to be changing, as I find and
> add new stuff to it.
> + the SCO license enforces that I get written permission before I
> pass anything to a third party. Taking this in a conservative
> fashion, this might rule out a password-protected ftp archive.
> However, I'll check with Dion at SCO on this.
> + we can only charge fees for copying and distribution, and cannot
> make money on the CD-ROMs
>
> Therefore, treat the archive CD-ROM like you would the FreeBSD or Linux
> distributions on CD-ROM: they will go out of date, but you can purchase
> new versions of the CD-ROM, and they should be relatively inexpensive.
I still miss the distinction between CD-ROMs and WORMs. CD-ROMs are
relatively expensive in small quantities, not just because of the
setup costs, but also because of the wastage involved. WORMs
(writeable CD-ROMs) are probably a better choice for the anticipated
volume.
Greg
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 2 08:29:23 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803012229.JAA01996(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:29:23 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980302083925.10323(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar 2, 98 08:39:25 am"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 8:47:07 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> > All,
> > re the question `Are CD-ROMs the best method of distributing the
> > PUPS archive of PDP-11 UNIX material'? The answer is: it's a good method,
> > for the following reasons:
> I still miss the distinction between CD-ROMs and WORMs. CD-ROMs are
> relatively expensive in small quantities, not just because of the
> setup costs, but also because of the wastage involved. WORMs
> (writeable CD-ROMs) are probably a better choice for the anticipated
> volume.
> Greg
Sorry, my fault. I use CD-ROM to mean anything which can be read in a CD-ROM
drive. That obviously includes CD-W, which is what I really mean here.
Ciao,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 2 08:38:33 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803012238.JAA02051(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:38:33 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803012228.OAA27094(a)rainbow.Corp.Sun.COM> from Chris Drake at "Mar 1, 98 02:28:21 pm"
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In article by Chris Drake:
> >Ok, so CD-ROMs are not the _best_ method of distributing the archive, but
> >they are a _good_ way of doing so.
>
> Sounds good to me... Just out of curiosity, got any idea how many people are
> on this list and/or might want a CD? I may have a limited ability to cut
> some at work, but not if we're talking lots.
I'd say at least 100 initially, and at least 300 in the first 12 months.
I'm trying to organise a bunch of people who can burn CDs, to keep the
individual workload down.
I'll be creating a Rock Ridge image using mkisofs from the archive here.
People who are prepared to burn CDs can either download the image, or the
entire archive. For the latter, I'll include a makefile to build the CD image.
Oviously, people who do mirror the archive:
+ will be asked to burn CDs, and will do so,
+ must be covered by a license. I will need either a signed
letter (on paper) describing the license, or a PGP-signed
email describing the license, before I can give access to
the archive.
Does this sound reasonable, everyone?
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Mar 2 10:17:01 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
References: <199803012228.OAA27094(a)rainbow.Corp.Sun.COM> <199803012238.JAA02051(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 9:38:33 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Chris Drake:
>>> Ok, so CD-ROMs are not the _best_ method of distributing the archive, but
>>> they are a _good_ way of doing so.
>>
>> Sounds good to me... Just out of curiosity, got any idea how many people are
>> on this list and/or might want a CD? I may have a limited ability to cut
>> some at work, but not if we're talking lots.
>
> I'd say at least 100 initially, and at least 300 in the first 12 months.
> I'm trying to organise a bunch of people who can burn CDs, to keep the
> individual workload down.
>
> I'll be creating a Rock Ridge image using mkisofs from the archive here.
> People who are prepared to burn CDs can either download the image, or the
> entire archive. For the latter, I'll include a makefile to build the CD image.
>
> Oviously, people who do mirror the archive:
>
> + will be asked to burn CDs, and will do so,
As I mentioned before, I can cut tapes, but not burn CDs. I think
this is still a valuable service.
> + must be covered by a license. I will need either a signed
> letter (on paper) describing the license, or a PGP-signed
> email describing the license, before I can give access to
> the archive.
Right. Any further news about when this could happen?
> Does this sound reasonable, everyone?
Modulo my point above, yes.
Greg
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 2 10:25:00 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803020025.LAA06066(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:25:00 +1100 (EST)
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Greg writes:
>> Oviously, people who do mirror the archive:
>> will be asked to burn CDs, and will do so,
>>
> As I mentioned before, I can cut tapes, but not burn CDs. I think
> this is still a valuable service.
Apologies again, Greg. Yes cutting tapes will also be valuable,
esp. for people who have a PDP-11.
> Right. Any further news about when this could happen?
No, I'm waiting on feedback from Dion. He did say he had started the
process of making it a product, but I don't have an ETA for it at the
moment.
Many thanks again for volunteering!!
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Mar 2 11:41:16 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803020141.MAA06698(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Part of PUPS Archive via FTP
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:41:16 +1100 (EST)
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All,
To show you what I'm thinking of for the CD-ROM version of the
PUPS archive, I've put the unlicensed parts up for anonymous ftp at:
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11/PUPS_Archive/
I've kept the directory structure intact, but you won't find any files
that require a source license. I'd appreciate any comments. Note that
there's a directory called Trees missing. It will contain `exploded'
trees for v6, v7 and 2.11BSD.
The Lists directory is interesting: it contains tar vtf listings of all
tarballs in the archive, with added checksums so you can determine identical
files in multiple tarballs.
This is all rough cut at the moment, so don't treat anything as unchangeable.
Warren
<uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774 ipl 17
<vvv****The RL02 driver!***vvv
<hl0 at uba0 csr 174400 didn't interrupt
<hl0 at uba0 csr 174400 didn't interrupt
<^^^***(Observe! Twice! The darn thing at least pretends to try..)***^^^
<klesiu0 at uba0
That suggests the interrupt grant chain was not intact. Look to see if
one of the slots needs a grant card. Watch out as a few cards DO NOT
pass grant!
<Any clue anybody? (I know that this is tedious for you all but it is for
<a good cause, okay? )
I understand why you would use rl02 they are handy. I have no experience
with them in unix context only Qbus VAX (under VMS) and PDP-11s under
rt-11/rsts/rsx-11 so I can't comment on software setup.
Allison
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>From J Lothian <jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> Sun Mar 1 02:18:57 1998
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From: J Lothian <jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
Subject: RL02 meets BSD
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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I've had an RL02 working on an 11/750 running
BSD4.3. The RL11 controller only has 16 words of
buffer memory, so you've got to make sure that other
devices don't hog the bus too much. In particular,
UDAs should have their DMA burst set to something like 1.
Setting it much higher causes the RL11 to get data lates
as its silo overflows before it gets access to the bus
to do DMA. However, the RLV12 seems to have a much bigger
silo (256 bytes?), so this should't be a problem for it.
The only other things I can think of are bus grant problems
&c. If you're using an RQDX3 in the same machine, bear in mind
that it doesn't pass the grants, and so should be the last
device on the bus.
James
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Sun Mar 1 03:58:27 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9802281758.AA14586(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: RL02 meets BSD
To: jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.AC.UK (J Lothian)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 09:58:27 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199802281618.QAA20434(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk> from "J Lothian" at Feb 28, 98 04:18:57 pm
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> The only other things I can think of are bus grant problems
> &c.
This certainly seems likely to me, too. What cards are in the
machine, and in which slots? What are the switches on the RLV12
set to?
> If you're using an RQDX3 in the same machine, bear in mind
> that it doesn't pass the grants, and so should be the last
> device on the bus.
I think you're thinking of the RQDX1/2 here.
Tim.
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Sun Mar 1 14:45:51 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
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Subject: Re: CD-ROM from SCO unlikely
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:45:51 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199802280443.UAA00780(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at Feb 27, 98 08:43:41 pm
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> > Incidentally, a couple of weeks ago I made a nice bootable Iomega ZIP
> > cartridge with the current 2.11 generic kernel and everything in /usr. It all
> > barely fits in the 100 Mbytes (well, 3*65536*512 bytes) available, and
>
> How "speedy" is a ZIP drive?
In case anyone is interested in the benchmarks, here's a short summary:
Both a Webster ESDC (1 Megabyte cache, Hitachi DK512-12 ESDI drive) and
an Andromeda SCDC (2 Mbyte cache connected to many SCSI devices, including an
"internal" SCSI ZIP) are present on my main development machine, a 11/73
(KDJ11-B) with 2 Mbytes of non-PMI memory. Caching on both controllers
was enabled and two benchmarks were done with each disk subsystem. Times
reported below are "wall times". All of this is done under the latest
release of 2.11BSD using a non-networking system and no other work
being done on the system.
1. "make sendmail" took 1159.4 seconds on the WQESD+Hitachi, and 1165.3
seconds on the SCDC+ZIP.
2. "find /usr -print > /dev/null" took 166.4 seconds on the WQESD+Hitachi
and 165.0 seconds on the SCDC+ZIP.
It looks like, for most purposes, the ZIP on a good SCSI host adapter is
just as good as an ESDI drive on a good ESDI controller. I think
Steven was expecting to see a substantial hit due to the ZIP's access time,
but I think that the buffering in the host adapter and in the ZIP drive
itself makes this a minor concern.
Tim.
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>From Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> Sun Mar 1 18:02:45 1998
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From: Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se>
To: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: That RL02 blues
In-Reply-To: <199802281508.AA24580(a)world.std.com>
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Grant chain was intact on both machines.
On the second machine the MSCP device was placed below the RLV12 and the
RA disk worked fine!
/Lars
On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Allison J Parent wrote:
>
> <uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774 ipl 17
> <vvv****The RL02 driver!***vvv
> <hl0 at uba0 csr 174400 didn't interrupt
> <hl0 at uba0 csr 174400 didn't interrupt
> <^^^***(Observe! Twice! The darn thing at least pretends to try..)***^^^
> <klesiu0 at uba0
>
>
> That suggests the interrupt grant chain was not intact. Look to see if
> one of the slots needs a grant card. Watch out as a few cards DO NOT
> pass grant!
>
> <Any clue anybody? (I know that this is tedious for you all but it is for
> <a good cause, okay? )
>
> I understand why you would use rl02 they are handy. I have no experience
> with them in unix context only Qbus VAX (under VMS) and PDP-11s under
> rt-11/rsts/rsx-11 so I can't comment on software setup.
>
> Allison
>
>
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>From Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> Sun Mar 1 18:06:26 1998
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From: Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se>
To: J Lothian <jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: RL02 meets BSD
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Both systems have "pirate" drive controllers and they have cards
that do pass grant signals.
If I do not remember wrongly, I think that only RQDX-1 had the
"feature" of not passing the grant chain.
But we placed all RQDX controller at the bottom anyhow even
though they worked further up.
THis is of academical interest only since I do not have holes
in the grant chain and do not have an RQDX controllers AND
I have devices below the drive controller in the first case
that do work!
/Lars
On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, J Lothian wrote:
> I've had an RL02 working on an 11/750 running
> BSD4.3. The RL11 controller only has 16 words of
> buffer memory, so you've got to make sure that other
> devices don't hog the bus too much. In particular,
> UDAs should have their DMA burst set to something like 1.
> Setting it much higher causes the RL11 to get data lates
> as its silo overflows before it gets access to the bus
> to do DMA. However, the RLV12 seems to have a much bigger
> silo (256 bytes?), so this should't be a problem for it.
>
> The only other things I can think of are bus grant problems
> &c. If you're using an RQDX3 in the same machine, bear in mind
> that it doesn't pass the grants, and so should be the last
> device on the bus.
>
> James
>
>
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>From Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> Sun Mar 1 18:37:58 1998
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From: Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se>
To: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
cc: J Lothian <jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.AC.UK>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: RL02 meets BSD
In-Reply-To: <9802281758.AA14586(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
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For various reasons I can not give you the hardware config of the
first system (Okay okay! I DO not want to crawl back in behind it
under all the cabling and short out the house again because I did
something aggravating to the power outlet in the process the last time
I was in there) but the only thing I did to that one was to add the RLV12 at
the bottom. The system worked before with all devices and did so afterwards
too except for the RLV-controller.
The second system looks like this:
A B C D
1 CPU-----CPU-----CPU-----CPU
2 MEM-----MEM-----MEM-----MEM
3 RLV12---RLV12---RLV12---RLV12
4 TKQ50---TKQ50 DQNA----DQNA
5 SI------SI------SI------SI
GLUED BACKPLANE FROM HERE AND DOWN
(this used to be a VAX-station II.
Remember them and cringe!)
SI is a quad ESDI controller for one or two external drives from System
Industries.
On the other system I have a dual SI controller for RA81 clones (Eagle).
There I DO have an RQDX-3 above the RLV12 but not so here.
Grant chain on the uVAX bus looks like this:
1AB-2AB-3AB-4AB-4CD-5CD-5AB(and so on).
The first three slots are "granted" only in the AB pair.
The RLV12 does work with grants only on the AB pair however.
It works fine in my three button 9 slot 22 bit backplane (classical
PDP11 vintage rack mount cab) and there the grant chain goes ONLY
on the AB side stright down (BA11-N and H9273).
So, no, I do not think we have a grant problem.
However, does the RLV12 handle drive interrupt like the RL11 does?
It could be that ULTRIX only supports the UNIBUS controller and
not the Qbus.. And if so, is there a fix for this out there?
And if not, how do I get hold of enough NetBSD to get a uVAX up
enough to have the config above, being able to network and being able
to reach both the SI controller and the RLV12?
Come to think of it, most of the no nonsense hard hat industry type
PDP11's I've seen (and especially the OEM-ed ones) got some sort
of winchester emulating one or several RL02s. Often combined with some
sort of QIC-type tape recorder with secret density.
To get ANYTHING on those rigs, I think you HAVE to do it the dd way
after having moved the controller to a bigger system....
Amazing how things can turn...
I used to spend a lot of time in trying to get away from the 16 bit
operating systems into the wonderful world of 32 bit. Now I am struggling
even harder to get back in there again. =)
Fun is not always bigger, faster better!
/Lars
On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> > The only other things I can think of are bus grant problems
> > &c.
>
> This certainly seems likely to me, too. What cards are in the
> machine, and in which slots? What are the switches on the RLV12
> set to?
>
> > If you're using an RQDX3 in the same machine, bear in mind
> > that it doesn't pass the grants, and so should be the last
> > device on the bus.
>
> I think you're thinking of the RQDX1/2 here.
>
> Tim.
>
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Mon Mar 2 04:57:46 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803011857.AA28081(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: RL02 meets BSD
To: beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se (Beastly Wolf)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:57:46 -0800 (PST)
Cc: jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.AC.UK, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.980301090940.20308C-100000(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> from "Beastly Wolf" at Mar 1, 98 09:37:58 am
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> The second system looks like this:
> A B C D
> 1 CPU-----CPU-----CPU-----CPU
> 2 MEM-----MEM-----MEM-----MEM
> 3 RLV12---RLV12---RLV12---RLV12
> 4 TKQ50---TKQ50 DQNA----DQNA
> 5 SI------SI------SI------SI
> GLUED BACKPLANE FROM HERE AND DOWN
> (this used to be a VAX-station II.
> Remember them and cringe!)
Ah, the "RC" aka "restricted configuration" aka "resin-coated" backplane.
The BA23 has a special CD-bus in the first three slots. Usually it's
not a problem to put a full-height card in the third slot, below
the CPU and memory, but occasionally there are quad-height
cards which actually pay some attention to stuff going on the CD
side of the bus. Can you try rearranging your cards so that you
have a dual-height card (i.e. the TKQ50 or DEQNA) in slot 3 AB,
you have the 3 CD empty, and the RLV12 in slot 4? This involves you
giving up either your TKQ50 or DEQNA, but I'm hoping that you can
live without one or the other for a little while.
Also, how are the jumpers/DIPswitches set on the RLV12? It's possible
to do some weird things by sticking the RLV12 into 16-bit or 18-bit
mode or by having the VEC set to something used by one of your other
cards. If either of these is the case, regard the fact that the controller
isn't usable as a Good Thing; having a RLV12 in 18-bit mode splatter
data all around low memory isn't fun!
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Mar 2 05:25:54 1998
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:25:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803011925.LAA08986(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
Subject: Re: CD-ROM from SCO unlikely
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Hi -
> From shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca Sat Feb 28 20:45:54 1998
>
> Both a Webster ESDC (1 Megabyte cache, Hitachi DK512-12 ESDI drive) and
> an Andromeda SCDC (2 Mbyte cache connected to many SCSI devices, including an
I tracked down an address and phone number for Andromeda Systems - they
are real close to me (in fact I drive by them every visit to Fry's ;-))
Andromeda Systems, Inc.
9000 Eton Avenue
Canoga Park, CA 91304
818-709-7600 (voice)
818-709-7407 (FAX)
No mention of a WWW site though. I'd imagine their boards, while
very good, are quite expensive. As much as I'd like a Zip drive
on the 11/93 I can't see spending US$1-2k for a $139 disk drive :-)
> 2. "find /usr -print > /dev/null" took 166.4 seconds on the WQESD+Hitachi
> and 165.0 seconds on the SCDC+ZIP.
WOW. That is quite surprising.
> Steven was expecting to see a substantial hit due to the ZIP's access time,
Quite so. Especially on the 'find' which is almost pure 'seek'
operations.
Wasn't there mention somewhere of a 200mb Zip? I know there's the
2gb Jaz drive now but haven't heard anymore about a larger Zip. On
the other hand there is the Syquest product line - they've a 135mb
"zip like" (but not compatible) drive.
Steven
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>From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Mon Mar 2 06:09:46 1998
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Subject: Re: CD-ROM from SCO unlikely
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:09:46 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <199803011925.LAA08986(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at Mar 1, 98 11:25:54 am
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> > Both a Webster ESDC (1 Megabyte cache, Hitachi DK512-12 ESDI drive) and
> > an Andromeda SCDC (2 Mbyte cache connected to many SCSI devices, including an
> I tracked down an address and phone number for Andromeda Systems - they
> are real close to me (in fact I drive by them every visit to Fry's ;-))
> Andromeda Systems, Inc.
> 9000 Eton Avenue
> Canoga Park, CA 91304
> 818-709-7600 (voice)
> 818-709-7407 (FAX)
>
> No mention of a WWW site though.
Try http://www.andromedasystems.com/
> I'd imagine their boards, while
> very good, are quite expensive. As much as I'd like a Zip drive
> on the 11/93 I can't see spending US$1-2k for a $139 disk drive :-)
Hook up 6 other SCSI devices to the board and you might change your mind!
The SCDC also supports standard 34-pin 5.25" and 3.5" floppies.
> > 2. "find /usr -print > /dev/null" took 166.4 seconds on the WQESD+Hitachi
> > and 165.0 seconds on the SCDC+ZIP.
>
> WOW. That is quite surprising.
>
> > Steven was expecting to see a substantial hit due to the ZIP's access time,
>
> Quite so. Especially on the 'find' which is almost pure 'seek'
> operations.
Actually, the ZIP "in-use" LED wasn't lit during most of the 'find'. I
suspect the Andromeda SCDC cached most of the important inodes quite
early on.
In terms of raw bandwidth to the Q-bus, nothing I've ever seen comes
close to the SCDC. 2 Mbytes/second may not be a whole lot by modern
PCI bus standards, but on the Q-bus it's very impressive.
> Wasn't there mention somewhere of a 200mb Zip?
I've heard mention of it too, but AFAIK it's still vaporware. 100 Mbytes
is, indeed, pretty tight for a 2.11BSD distribution, but it does fit.
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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