It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
require separate I+D space?
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
"Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue,
the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> Fri Nov 10 20:23:55 1995
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:55 +0100 (MET)
Reply-To: bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE
To: rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (OldUnix MailingList)
Subject: Re: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT)
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.815999035.bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
>
>It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
>separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
>suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
>require separate I+D space?
Steve Schoultz is really the one to answer this question, but I
seem to remember that BSD2.9 was the last version which worked
on non-I/D-space systems.
Johnny
>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> Fri Nov 10 20:23:03 1995
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:03 +0100 (MET)
Reply-To: bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE
To: risner(a)heathers.stdio.com (James Risner)
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.0.815998983.bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>
>Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
>I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?
I think it should go there, anyway.
Johnny
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Sat Nov 11 02:46:36 1995
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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:46:36 -0800
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199511101646.IAA18106(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
Bob -
> From: rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
>
> It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
> separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
> suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
> require separate I+D space?
The last version of UNIX for the PDP11 which stood a chance of
running on a non split machine was 2.9BSD. I'd expect it to be
a very tight fit though because even on a split I/D machine we
ended up overlaying the kernel (but then even V7 took overlays
to fit - which we hacked into the kernel, at least in the environment
here). A long long time ago I did squish a V7 system into an 11/23 -
not a pretty sight, each command you ran caused the others on the
system to be swapped out (do a "ls -l" and watch the shell get swapped,
when the 'ls' finished then the shell would be swapped back in, etc.)
V6 would be a better match for a non-split (248kb max) machine. By
the time V7 was out the 11/70 was being used as the development
platform and split I/D was becoming more and more necessary.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
I posted this query to vmsnet.pdp-11 and alt.sys.pdp11, but following
Warren's complaint that noone was talking on oldunix@minnie I'll ask
you lot too ...
I have on my PC hard disk a couple of rk05 disk images (from Warren's
archive, naturally). Question is, how to get them onto a real rk05
... the real PDP beats the emulator any day after all ...
Naturally someone has workedout how to extract RK05 images to files to
put on the archive site. I'm wondering if anyone has solved the
reverse problem yet ...
I could split up the file into moderate sized pieces (say 250k, RX01
sized bits), boot the PDP (RT11) off RX01 floppy, start kermit and
transfer a file piece from the PC to the other PDP floppy drive. Then
I could mount a fresh RK05 pack, format etc. and run some crafty code
to write the file to the appropriate place on the 'raw' RK05 device.
What do you think?
Another correspondent mentioned that Kermit may be able to write to
"raw" devices directly, allowing me to transfer the file all in one
piece. I'm still waiting for confirmation of that -- seems a little
unlikely to me, but I've been suprised before.
My system is:
11/34a
1 x RK05 (2.5Mb removable type, RK05f I think - or is it j?)
1 x RX01
128Kword
As you can see, backing store is in short supply ;)
I'd sooner avoid writing too much Macro-11 at present, so if the
problem is already solved, I'd love to know how ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
"Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue,
the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Fri Nov 10 04:11:19 1995
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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:11:19 GMT
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
Message-Id: <138(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Register of machines
X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d
X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS
Dear All,
I have just had a note from someone who wants to get RK05 stuff on to his
system but might be in a position where his current setup can't do it.
This sort of stuff might be helped if people submitted a register of what kit
they have. This could allow people in reasonable geographic location to help
each other out. FOr instance, if some one had a unix system that an rk05 could
be plugged into then they could do this and then give the rk05's back once they
had the stuff copied over.
To start it off. I have:
1*11/73 (1.5MByte)
2*RD54
1*DHV11
1*TK50
Running 2.11 BSD.
I also have 1*Compaq 386 (486 Cyrix chip)
running FreeBSD
I live in Gloucestershire UK and am willing to help anybody in copying stuff
that I can. I can get access to 0.5inch mag tape RA60 and RL02 if necessary.
Cheers
Robin
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robin Birch EMail robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
Firstly, this old unix mailing list is damn quiet - I'm the only one
talking. If you have any questions, ideas etc., mail them to
oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au.
I'm away all of next week for a holiday, but will be back after that.
Steven Schultz has promised 2.11BSD for the PDP Unix archive, and
I'm also talking with Keith Bostic, as he has some stuff of interest.
There is also a new PDP-11 simulator; this one runs a.out binaries
directly, and passes the syscalls directly to the native operating system.
You can pick it up at:
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz
If anybody can fix the bugs mentioned in the README, please let me know!
See you all again soon!
Warren
All,
A few quick notes about the PDP Unix archive effort. Dennis has sent
in Fifth Edition, and both he and Ken Wellsch have sent in Sixth Edition.
I've set up ftp access to the archive of licensed stuff. To get in,
email me and I will send you back a username/password plus details.
Cheers,
Warren
Firstly, welcome to some new members of the old unix mailing list. If you don't
get this email, please let me know ;-)
I received an email back from Dennis Ritchie about getting a v6/v7 license
(for those who don't have one). Here is his full reply:
From: Dennis Ritchie
To: Warren Toomey
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:40:55 EST
Subject: canonical answer about Sixth and Seventh Edition
So far as I can determine, AT&T doesn't think it has the
right to issue new licenses for any Unix editions, and won't
do so. Several years ago, the Unix IP was transferred to
Unix Systems Laboratories, at first as a mostly-owned subsidiary;
USL was then sold to Novell, and recently Novell agreed to
sell its Unix business to SCO (and HP is partially involved).
As of the end of October 1995 this last sale had not been
consummated.
In other words, AT&T is out of the Unix business, and has been
for some time; any licenses will have to come from the current
owner. But the "current owner" is itself in flux, and I doubt that
even before the latest sale, Novell was quite geared up to issue
Seventh Edition licenses; I have no useful suggestions about
how to obtain one officially (it might be interesting to try).
Official sources in AT&T have said that they have no objection
to reissuance of Lions's commentaries and source publication
of the Sixth Edition.
Dennis
So it doesn't look like good news at the moment; I guess we could approach
SCO and HP, and ask about trying to get licenses from them. I'll see what I
can do.
A few other people mentioned that they would like to get stuff from the
archive of early Unixes that I'm maintaining, and how to prove that they have
a license. I have no idea how to do this, any suggestions?
P.S There isn't a Sixth Edition in the archive as yet, can anyone send me a
distribution or bootable disk image?
Cheers all,
Warren Toomey
Hi,
I've been merrily adding email addresses to the mail list on old Unixes
and PDPs, so I thought I'd mail a message out to it in order to check that all
the email addresses are correct.
To send email to the mailing list, send to oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au.
There is a Web page which describes the efforts to save all this old stuff, and
it is at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/
I'm building up a list of short biographies/relevant skills for both
mailing-list-only use, and to put on the public Web page. If you haven't sent
me a resume yet, check out the PUPS Web pages and see what you can come up with.
Several people have asked about obtaining a legal copy of early Unixes.
I don't have an answer as yet, but I have mailed Dennis Ritchie, who seems to
be the person with the best answers at the moment.
A few other people have asked ``What Unix runs on what hardware?''. I'll
try to build up a list for Sixth and Seventh Editions and 2.9BSD, and perhaps
Steven Schultz can send in a list for 2.11BSD.
Anyway, welcome to this old Unix maillist. If you have anything that can go
into the PUPS archive, please send it in. We have licenses here, so there is no
problem with sending in licensed stuff. And feel free to send in questions and
answers about this historic technology!
Cheers,
Warren Toomey wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
90 20:47:42 CST
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From: mjs(a)sage.cc.purdue.edu (Michael J Spitzer)
Message-Id: <9003290239.AA23901(a)sage.cc.purdue.edu>
To: bob(a)cs.purdue.edu
Subject: Heheh...
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 90 21:39:57 -0500
Status: R
To: dmr(a)research.att.com
Subject: "Oregano" and Unix wizards
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 90 18:14:57 -0500
From: mjs
=20
Dennis,
As you may know, Unitech Software Inc. has been distributing "Unix
Magic" posters at recent Usenix conferences. The poster shows a
wizard that looks kinda like you mixing various Unix tools together to
make a potion of some sort. The only thing that isn't obviously some
sort of pun on an aspect of Unix is a canister labeled Oregano in the
foreground of the picture.
Is there some significance behind this, other than the obvious
"oregano" double meaning? Did you guys really use "oregano" to help
drum up your creativity for the original Unix development?
Just curious.
-mjs
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