I should mention that "at rl0 ..." also doesn't work:
sim> at rl0 /users/vandys/tmp/v7/v7_rl02_1145
sim> b rl0
@/
@/
HALT instruction, PC: 000002 (HALT)
sim>
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>From Andy Valencia <vandys(a)zendo.com> Mon Jul 24 00:03:02 2000
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To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: [pups] UNIX V7 11/45 image booting
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 07:03:02 -0700
From: Andy Valencia <vandys(a)zendo.com>
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I'm trying to boot the image v7_rl02_1145 from sim_2.3d, and get:
PDP-11 simulator V2.3d
sim> at rl02 /users/vandys/tmp/v7/v7_rl02_1145
sim> b rl02
@
I can type things to the '@' prompt, but it never does anything unless I
type '/', at which point it bombs back to the emulator. My scan of the
documentation for bootstraps doesn't point out any state with an '@'
prompt... help?
I can't tell you how many years it's been since I've had access to an '11
running V7. Looking forward to it!
Thanks,
Andy Valencia
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mon Jul 24 08:22:52 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: [pups] UNIX V7 11/45 image booting
In-Reply-To: <200007231403.HAA00392(a)vandys-pc.zendo.com> from Andy Valencia at
"Jul 23, 2000 07:03:02 am"
To: Andy Valencia <vandys(a)zendo.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:22:52 +1000 (EST)
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In article by Andy Valencia:
> I'm trying to boot the image v7_rl02_1145 from sim_2.3d, and get:
>
> PDP-11 simulator V2.3d
> sim> at rl02 /users/vandys/tmp/v7/v7_rl02_1145
> sim> b rl02
> @
>
> I can type things to the '@' prompt, but it never does anything...
> Andy Valencia
At the bottom of simh_doc.txt in the Supnik emulator sources, it says:
UNIX V7 is contained on a single RL02 disk image. To boot UNIX:
sim> set cpu 18b
sim> set rl0 RL02
sim> att rl0 unix_v7_rl.dsk
sim> boot rl0
@boot
New Boot, known devices are hp ht rk rl rp tm vt
: rl(0,0)rl2unix
#
A smaller image is contained on a single RK05 disk image. To boot UNIX:
sim> set cpu 18b
sim> att rk0 unix_v7_rk.dsk
sim> boot rk0
@boot
New Boot, known devices are hp ht rk rl rp tm vt
: rk(0,0)rkunix
# STTY -LCASE
#
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Warren
In a big batch of 9-tracks and RL01 packs rescued this morning, I have
two tapes, one labeled
AT&T
** 66938 **
UNIX OPERATING SYSTEM FOR
WRITERS WORKBENCH SOFTWARE
TPname: LOAD PGM FOR PDP 11/70
the other labeled
AT&T
** 66611 **
UNIX OPERATING SYSTEM
WRITERS WORKBENCH SOFTWARE
TPname: LOAD PGM FOR VAX 11/780 11/750
Both have copyright dates of 1984. You can see scans of the original
labels (high-res scans, they're big files!) at
http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/wwtapes/
I won't be able to make binary copies of these until this evening, but does
anyone know where these tapes fit into the scheme of AT&T stuff? i.e.
are these custom-built SYS III and SYS V systems? Is the PDP-11/70 tape
perhaps eligible for inclusion in the PUPS archive under the SCO license?
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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Subject: Re: [pups] AT&T Unix Operating System for Writers Workbench Software?
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I believe WWB was an offshoot or derivative of PWB, the Programmer's Workbench,
which was a special version of V6. I think WWB was where "pic" first showed
up. PWB was, I think V6 with a few extra utilities added. WWB may be the same.
- Chris
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Tue Jul 11 09:51:19 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:51:19 -0400
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <000710195119.202002e2(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [pups] AT&T Unix Operating System for Writers Workbench Software?
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>I believe WWB was an offshoot or derivative of PWB, the Programmer's Workbench,
>which was a special version of V6. I think WWB was where "pic" first showed
>up. PWB was, I think V6 with a few extra utilities added. WWB may be the same.
I don't think what I've found here is that major. It starts
with a Makefile:
# NOTICE-NOT TO BE DISCLOSED OUTSIDE BELL SYS EXCEPT UNDER WRITTEN AGRMT
# Makefile: Writer's Workbench system version 2.0.1.10, 5/26/83
# makefile for the WRITER'S WORKBENCH SYSTEM
# This package includes over 30 programs that suggest improvements
# to written documents, including improved versions of the
# Style and Diction programs as well as many more writing aids.
and the README says:
This file gives instructions for building and installing the Writer's
Workbench system source code. This information is also contained
in the document "UNIX(TM) Writer's Workbench Software Installation
and Administration Guide."
These particular tapes have been stored in absolutely horrible conditions
(pretty much kept in an outdoors storage shed during both winter and summer for
the past decade) and I'm going to have to bake and/or lubricate them before I
make a not-half-assed attempt at recovering them. The PDP11/70 tape is
particularly bad (it actually broke when I was just loading it into
the drive!) and it may be a goner.
I don't see any obvious mentions of 'pic' in what I read so far.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Grant Maizels <grant.maizels(a)cogita.com.au> Tue Jul 11 10:21:30 2000
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From: Grant Maizels <grant.maizels(a)cogita.com.au>
To: "'Tim Shoppa'" <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>, PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Subject: RE: [pups] AT&T Unix Operating System for Writers Workbench Softw
are?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:21:30 +1000
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Tim,
Writers Work Bench was an extension to the basic troff/nroff tools developed
earlier, but took new directions. It included a whole lot of new programs
like diction (a grammar checker??) which were more to do with the content
than the formatting. I think that pic was developed separately by bwk for a
research version. I have never used WWB but I have some documentation on it
somewhere at home. I believe that it was sold with source as an add on for
various Unicies.
Grant Maizels
grant(a)maizels.nu
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Shoppa [mailto:SHOPPA@trailing-edge.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2000 9:51
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Subject: Re: [pups] AT&T Unix Operating System for Writers Workbench
Software?
>I believe WWB was an offshoot or derivative of PWB, the Programmer's
Workbench,
>which was a special version of V6. I think WWB was where "pic" first
showed
>up. PWB was, I think V6 with a few extra utilities added. WWB may be the
same.
I don't think what I've found here is that major. It starts
with a Makefile:
# NOTICE-NOT TO BE DISCLOSED OUTSIDE BELL SYS EXCEPT UNDER WRITTEN AGRMT
# Makefile: Writer's Workbench system version 2.0.1.10, 5/26/83
# makefile for the WRITER'S WORKBENCH SYSTEM
# This package includes over 30 programs that suggest improvements
# to written documents, including improved versions of the
# Style and Diction programs as well as many more writing aids.
and the README says:
This file gives instructions for building and installing the Writer's
Workbench system source code. This information is also contained
in the document "UNIX(TM) Writer's Workbench Software Installation
and Administration Guide."
These particular tapes have been stored in absolutely horrible conditions
(pretty much kept in an outdoors storage shed during both winter and summer
for
the past decade) and I'm going to have to bake and/or lubricate them before
I
make a not-half-assed attempt at recovering them. The PDP11/70 tape is
particularly bad (it actually broke when I was just loading it into
the drive!) and it may be a goner.
I don't see any obvious mentions of 'pic' in what I read so far.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Tim Shoppa [mailto:SHOPPA@trailing-edge.com] Tue Jul 11 12:12:45 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:12:45 -0400
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
From: Kevin Schoedel <schoedel(a)kw.igs.net>
Subject: [pups] RE: AT&T Unix Operating System for Writers Workbench Softw are?
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On 2000/07/11 at 10:21am +1000, Grant Maizels
<grant.maizels(a)cogita.com.au> wrote:
>Writers Work Bench was an extension to the basic troff/nroff tools developed
>earlier, but took new directions. It included a whole lot of new programs
>like diction (a grammar checker??) which were more to do with the content
>than the formatting. I think that pic was developed separately by bwk for a
>research version. I have never used WWB but I have some documentation on it
>somewhere at home. I believe that it was sold with source as an add on for
>various Unicies.
I have a little documentation here, mostly three papers from BSTJ vol. 62
no. 6, July/August 1983. It did contain -- as the makefile says --
'diction' (basically a search for 'bad' phrases), 'style' (which
generated readabilty and other statistics for text), 'punct' (a basic
punctuation checker), and a handful of other similar programs.
Importantly for the PUPS archive, I'm pretty certain that AT&T retained
ownership of WWB when it sold UNIX, so it wouldn't be covered by the SCO
license. I have no idea who owns it now.
'pic', along with troff and such, was in *Documenter's* Workbench.
--
Kevin Schoedel
schoedel(a)kw.igs.net
I just (yesterday) aquired a microPDP 11/73 -- it had been used by my
school to operate some sort of geological test equipment that is no
longer present, and was working when it went out of service, who knows
how long ago.
She has a pair of RX02s, an RD52a inside her case, and that's all I've
determined so far, since I haven't opened her up, really, yet.
I'm interested in documentation on monitor commands, what the boot
sequence should look like, and other such software stuff right now.
I'm also wondering about useful things like: `Is the part number in a
standard location on each card', `What is the form factor difference
between Q-bus and Unibus', `Will starting her up trip the breaker', and
`How much space is there in that little rackmount'
In the near future, I'd like to find ethernet and SCSI adaptors for her,
and so am wondering where parts might be aquired.
Thanks,
Suika (very happy)
--
ssfr(a)unm.edu
The computer is not mightier than a cup of coffee, or other liquid, or a young
school age child with a tool box... --L. E. Waltz
<a href="http://www.unm.edu/~ssfr/">Suika no homepage</a>
I'm maybe going to acquire an 11/23. It looks like this is kind of
small for running v7 and/or 2.11 as it has no split I/D (it does have
an MMU in it but only an 18-bit one I think).
How similar is the physical hardware (card cage I mean really) of this
to things like 11/73,11/83? I'm wondering if I might one day be able
to acquire a card-set from something bigger and install it in the same
rack, my logic being that cards are a lot easier to get from far away
than racks, and this machine is only a few miles away.
Thanks
--tim
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From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <000701070037.262009c5(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [pups] 11/23 and other qbus machines
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>I'm maybe going to acquire an 11/23. It looks like this is kind of
>small for running v7 and/or 2.11 as it has no split I/D (it does have
>an MMU in it but only an 18-bit one I think).
Yeah, perhaps the best choice here would be the set of RL02's I found with
a V6 system on RL02 packs. Hook up a RLV11 or a RLV12, a couple of
RL02 drives, and you're in business.
>How similar is the physical hardware (card cage I mean really) of this
>to things like 11/73,11/83? I'm wondering if I might one day be able
>to acquire a card-set from something bigger and install it in the same
>rack, my logic being that cards are a lot easier to get from far away
>than racks, and this machine is only a few miles away.
It's very similar, but it's also rather likely that the card cage that your
11/23 comes in will only support 18-bit bus addresses. If you want
to run 2.11BSD that's not really enough memory. For some
details about what Q-bus hardware supports 18-bit stuff and what
Q-bus hardware supports 22-bit stuff, please look at your Micronotes,
specifically #5, _Q22 Compatible Options_. If you aren't lucky enough
to own a set, you can browse them at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/microno…
In large part, it's impossible to specify a PDP-11 as a "PDP-11/23" and
know with any certainty what any single part of it is. There's much
more to a system than the CPU (and note there are several very different
CPU boards sold as 11/23's), you also have to consider backplane, memory,
and disk/tape storage. It'd be nice if Warren linked to some not-on-
Minnie resources for these subjects important to many PUPS members (hint hint,
nudge nudge!)
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Sat Jul 1 21:11:44 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: [pups] Re: PDP-11 ptrs on minnie
In-Reply-To: <000701070037.262009c5(a)trailing-edge.com> from Tim Shoppa at "Jul 1, 2000 7: 0:37 am"
To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:11:44 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society)
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In article by Tim Shoppa:
> It'd be nice if Warren linked to some not-on-
> Minnie resources for these subjects important to many PUPS members (hint hint,
> nudge nudge!)
Send me the URLs & tell me where on http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS
you'd like to see them :-)
Warren
OK, I think I'm figuring out how to install Unix System III on a
11/45. In particular, I mount the first tape on a MT tape drive, get
a RP04 up and spinning, and boot from tape:
UNIX tape boot loader
UNIX -- Initial Load: Tape-to-Disk
The type of disk drive on which the Root file system will reside,
as well as the type of tape drive that will be used for Tape 1
must be specified below.
Answer the questions with a 'y' or 'n' followed by
a carriage return or line feed.
There is no type-ahead -- wait for the question to complete.
The character '@' will kill the entire line,
while the character '#' will erase the last character typed.
RP03 at address 176710?: n
RP04/5/6 at address 176700?: y
Drive number (0-7)?: 0
Disk drive 0 selected.
Mount a formatted pack on drive 0.
Ready?: y
TU10/TM11 at address 172520?: y
Drive number (0-7)?: 0
Tape drive 0 selected.
The tape on drive 0 will be read from the current position
at 800bpi, 5120 characters (10 blocks) per record,
and written onto the pack on drive 0 starting at block 0.
Ready?: y
Size of filesystem to be copied is 6000 blocks.
What is the pack volume label? (e.g. p0001): p0001
The pack will be labelled p0001.
The boot block for your type of disk drive will now be installed.
The file system copy is now complete.
To boot the basic unix for your disk and tape drives
as indicated above, mount this pack on drive 0
and read in the boot block (block 0) using
whatever means you have available; see romboot(8), 70boot(8).
Then boot the program unixhptm using diskboot(8).
Normally: #0=unixhptm
The system will initially come up single-user; see init(8).
If you have an upper case only console terminal,
you must execute: stty lcase; see stty(1).
After UNIX is up, link the file unixhptm to unix using ln(1).
# ln /unixhptm /unix
Set the date(1).
Good Luck!
The tape will now be rewound.
[Now I boot from the RP04]:
#0=unixhptm
UNIX/3.0.1: unixhptm
real mem = 253952 bytes
avail mem = 187584 bytes
unix
single-user
# ls -l
total 805
drwxr-xr-x 2 root sys 32 Feb 15 1979 bck
drwxrwxr-x 2 bin bin 1312 Dec 15 1981 bin
drwxr-xr-x 2 root sys 528 Dec 15 1981 dev
drwxr-xr-x 3 root sys 1056 Oct 26 14:57 etc
drwxrwxr-x 2 bin bin 272 Dec 15 1981 lib
drwxrwxrwx 2 bin bin 32 May 31 1980 lost+found
drwxr-xr-x 2 root sys 32 Feb 15 1979 mnt
drwxrwxr-x 3 bin bin 368 Dec 15 1981 stand
-rwxrwxr-x 1 sys sys 51382 Nov 9 1982 unixhpht
-rwxrwxr-x 1 sys sys 50778 Sep 3 1980 unixhptm
-rwxrwxr-x 1 sys sys 49380 Sep 3 1980 unixrkht
-rwxrwxr-x 1 sys sys 48782 Sep 3 1980 unixrktm
-rwxrwxr-x 1 sys sys 50172 Sep 3 1980 unixrlht
-rwxrwxr-x 1 sys sys 49574 Sep 3 1980 unixrltm
-rwxrwxr-x 1 sys sys 49704 Sep 3 1980 unixrpht
-rwxrwxr-x 1 sys sys 49106 Sep 3 1980 unixrptm
drwxr-xr-x 2 sys sys 32 Aug 19 08:46 usr
But what do I do next? There's a bunch of 5120-byte-record files still
on the tape, and the "/bin" on the root filesystem doesn't have "tar" or
"restor". It *does* have cpio, and I think that's what I want to use. So
what's the next step?
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Sun Jun 25 18:52:47 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Installing SYSTEM III; stuck!
In-Reply-To: <000624211802.2620014a(a)trailing-edge.com> from Tim Shoppa at "Jun 24, 2000 9:18: 2 pm"
To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 18:52:47 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society)
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In article by Tim Shoppa:
> But what do I do next? There's a bunch of 5120-byte-record files still
> on the tape, and the "/bin" on the root filesystem doesn't have "tar" or
> "restor". It *does* have cpio, and I think that's what I want to use. So
> what's the next step?
>From the PDP-11 SysIII in the archive, the files are cpio archives. The
/usr/src/man/docs/setup file explains what to do next. It's in nroff
format, but I don't know what macro switch to use to print it out
correctly. I'll send it in a separate e-mail to avoid clogging up the list.
Warren
Markus Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> wrote:
> Why can't we just stay on big family ? Of course FreeBSD has it's
> archives elsewhere, but still no reason to divide instead of unite ?
According to Warren's Charter, PUPS and TUHS are both specifically for UNIX.
His Charter defines UNIX as follows:
"Unix is defined as the set of operating systems who can trace their source
code ancestry back to the 1st to 7th Editions of research UNIX from Bell Labs."
Any system that fits this definition automatically falls under the original
UNIX copyright and may not be distributed outside the circle of UNIX source
licensees. Therefore, if you think that FreeBSD fits this definition and
belongs in this group, you must stop publicly distributing it. Otherwise, it
does not belong in the archive or on these lists.
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Tue Jun 20 00:27:09 2000
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:27:09 -0400
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <000619102709.262000b0(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: [Newbie alert!] Disk usage of various Unices
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>I recently obtained a beast which appears to be a PDP 11/53+, and I want
>to run some Unix on it (Wahey!). I've got a small problem though: It
>only has one(!) RD32A disk (42MB). I know that this probably won't be
>enough to hold a complete distribution, but which release can I install
>bare-bones on that disk?
You can put the root partition of 2.11BSD on there quite nicely, it'll
live in 8 Mbytes. Trimming down /usr to 42 Mbytes will depend on what
exactly you need from it, though. Certainly you can set up a system
with compilers, etc., even though you won't be able to have all the
sources online at the same time.
>I might be able to slip in another MFM disk (but I don't have something
>bigger than 21 MB at hand), provided I can low-level format it.
You want to read Terry Kennedy's document on adding third-party disks
to DEC RQDX3 controllers. You can find it at
ftp://ftp.spc.edu/third-party-disks.txt
Information about formatting, jumper settings, etc., is all there.
Tim.
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>From Andrew Sporner <andy.sporner(a)networkengines.com> Tue Jun 20 00:30:39 2000
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From: Andrew Sporner <andy.sporner(a)networkengines.com>
To: "'db(a)aptant.com'" <db(a)aptant.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: RE: save everything and divisiveness
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:30:39 -0400
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+ my $0.02 makes $1.00
>From my perspective I have watched this argument on this
list about purism and otherwise.
>From a practical sense, historical trueness makes sense
when we are considering changes to something. That is
to evaluate whether it was better before or after; with
the ultimate goal of coming up with a truly usefull sytem.
Otherwise O/S researchers would never be able to make
advancements because they would be repeating each others
mistakes. But to take a lesson from history makes having
such an archive of old source important.
To get hung up on a particular release makes sense I guess
if you are a collector, such as one who collects vases
because that is an art form. A vase from the Ming chinesse
period is worth more if it has not been modified (for instance
some later owner decides that there are not enough flowers
on the vase--so he adds some). However with Systems software
this is not the case because it is not a tangible item such
as a processor such as a PDP-11 or PDP-8. I know many people
that still run PDP-8's (I have one myself), but universally
ever user of the '8 is trying to make the software on it
run better and more efficiently.
So I would not be one to castigate some pioneers of systems
software whoses names happened not to be K&R. I am sure that
the both Kernigan and Richie both are marveled at what Unix
has become. In fact I believe one of them went on to write
Plan-9 which is really off-the-wall compared to their earlier
work.
Good software is inherrently in a steady process of evolution.
The only piece of software I have ever seen that never evolved
was the classic "Hello World" program that everybody learns to
write on their first lesson in programming.
OK, That's it...
Andy Sporner
>
> My $0.02:
>
>
> I once wondered whether the techniques of literary textual
> criticism could be used in order to determine whether a Linux,
> FreeBSD, groff -- whatever! -- is in any way derived from an
> earlier work. Textual criticism considers a work by examining
> several or all of the extant textual variations in an attempt
> to determine what the author originally wrote; it has been
> used to reconstruct the "original" texts of the ancient as
> well as some modern writers, such as James Joyce. It
> yields a tree of texts, in which the root is the "original,"
> and the sibling children of any node are the descendants of a
> common, perhaps hypothetical, text. I don't know much
> else about it, except that its results may depend on alot
> of knowledge and informed speculation. The textual critics
> work bottom-up to arrive at an original text; I am thinking
> of a top-down process, working from an original text, to show that a
> work lower in a tree is derived from the original. If such a
> technique were valid at all, its validity would only be improved
> with the availablity of many, many "texts." The techniques might be
> more useful where, for example, there were several V7 tapes
> that people
> thought were original, but which, on inspection, turned out
> to be different.
> In this situation, textual criticism might be used to
> reconstruct a "true," V7
> release tape, and, in this situation, would be a bottom-up
> application of the techniques.
>
> In any event, I think that it is important to preserve alot of
> tapes, and to keep them separate with as much information as
> possible about their pedigree. If someone ever did use such
> a technique -- or any other technique -- to reconstruct a
> "true" release,
> it is important that they document their work and not throw away the
> tapes that contributed to the "true" tape, because even more
> tapes may appear in the future which could lead to
> the reconstruction of an even truer tape.
>
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Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> wrote:
> Had it ever occurred to you that others might not delineate "Unix"
> in quite the same way in which you do?
In this case my definition of UNIX agrees with that set by the Charters for
both lists.
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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>From "Joseph S. Barrera III" <joe(a)barrera.org> Tue Jun 20 01:17:01 2000
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Cc: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>, <tuhs(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: RE: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 08:17:01 -0700
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> By the Charter I'm asking you to take this elsewhere.
Bwa ha ha.
That's pretty funny, Michael.
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>From "Broadway, Rusel" <RBROADWAY(a)tbs-ltd.co.uk> Tue Jun 20 01:29:44 2000
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From: "Broadway, Rusel" <RBROADWAY(a)tbs-ltd.co.uk>
To: "'pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au'" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:29:44 +0100
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I agree with Thor: Either grow up or get out!
Rusel Broadway
Senior Systems Analyst (e-mail Rbroadway(a)tbs-ltd.co.uk
<mailto:Rbroadway@tbs-ltd.co.uk> , DDI: 01206-25-5745)
The Book Service Ltd.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D259143015-19062000>I =
agree with Thor:=20
Either grow up or get out!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
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<P><IMG height=3D48 src=3D"cid:259143015@19062000-0583" =
width=3D48><FONT color=3D#800000=20
face=3DScript size=3D6>Rusel Broadway </FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Senior=20
Systems Analyst (e-mail </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Rbroadway@tbs-ltd.co.uk">Rbroadway(a)tbs-ltd.co.uk</A><FONT=
=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>, DDI: 01206-25-5745)</FONT><BR><FONT =
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Book Service Ltd.</P></FONT>
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>From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Tue Jun 20 03:59:54 2000
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:59:54 -0700
From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com>
To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: The Unix History Graphing Project...
Message-ID: <20000619105954.D2592(a)dragon.nuxi.com>
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References: <0006191437.AA05415(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>
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In-Reply-To: <0006191437.AA05415(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG on Mon, Jun 19, 2000 at 09:37:31AM -0500
X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT
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On Mon, Jun 19, 2000 at 09:37:31AM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote:
> There are also BabyVAXen, which is what NutBSDists and others talking about
^^^^^
This is *TOTALY* uncalled for.
Warren, Michael has definitely crossed the bounds of lack of respect for
others. Would you please consider moderating his posts?
--
-- David (obrien(a)NUXI.com)
Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> wrote:
> [snipped discussion of clones and workalikes not containing any original UNIX
> code and thus of no relevance to this group]
By the Charter I'm asking you to take this elsewhere.
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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>From Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> Tue Jun 20 01:11:00 2000
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 11:11:00 -0400
From: Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com>
To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, tuhs(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive
Message-ID: <20000619111100.A5557(a)rek.tjls.com>
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References: <0006191440.AA05429(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>
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In-Reply-To: <0006191440.AA05429(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG on Mon, Jun 19, 2000 at 09:40:50AM -0500
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On Mon, Jun 19, 2000 at 09:40:50AM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote:
> Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> wrote:
>
> > [snipped discussion of clones and workalikes not containing any original UNIX
> > code and thus of no relevance to this group]
>
> By the Charter I'm asking you to take this elsewhere.
I'm asking you, once more, to take your fanaticism elsewhere. I'm also
asking the moderator, once more, in light of this, your recent attacks
on Keith Bostic, your totally gratuitous "NutBSD" swipe in your most
recent missive, and your general misbehaviour and abysmal nettiquite in
your time on this list, to cause you to take your fanaticism elsewhere.
Had it ever occurred to you that others might not delineate "Unix"
in quite the same way in which you do? Of course not. Your opinion
is the only one that matters, and if anyone else doesn't see it that
way, well, then, by God, you'll just have to spew flamage until he
goes away. Great. Really, absolutely what's needed in a preservation
project.
Thor
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Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)cley.com> wrote:
> * Markus Leypold wrote:
> > On the other side, Michael has ventured, to port BSD4.3 to modern
> > VAXens (a noble enterprise in my eyes),
>
> Weell, I don't know about that. All them modern Vaxens aren't really
> *original* are they? Got microprocessors in, half of 'em. Never did
> hold with any kind of computer you didn't need a lorry to move,
> myself.
Now, stop right there! I'm an international agent and I'm armed! :-)
To start with, I don't want to use the term "modern", ever. As for what VAXen I
support and target, my primary emphasis is on BI/XMI VAXen, which are very big
and are absolute miracles of architectural beauty. They don't undermine the
original VAXness a single bit. On the opposite, they actually implement many of
the astounding miracles of the holy original VAX Architecture Reference Manual
that the original VAX-11s were only going to. I also place a high emphasis on
Q22-bus MicroVAXen, as they are readily available and don't require special
power, and yet they fully comply with the proper VAX architecture.
There are also BabyVAXen, which is what NutBSDists and others talking about
"modern VAXen" are probably talking about. Those are indeed very cost-reduced,
VAXness-deprived, and PeeCee-fied. I do plan on supporting them, just so that I
support every VAX ever made, but I by no means endorse them. They are not real
VAXen.
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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Markus Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> wrote:
> And some use emulators within modern systems to get a feel for 'the
> genuine article'.
No, no emulator can give you a feel for the genuine article. You won't get that
feel until you get your toes crushed by an H9642 side panel, get your knuckles
scraped by a BA23, or take a day off with your back hurting after carrying an
RA81 across the campus.
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
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>From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.cx> Tue Jun 20 00:08:36 2000
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To: PUPS mailinglist <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: [Newbie alert!] Disk usage of various Unices
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Hello!
I recently obtained a beast which appears to be a PDP 11/53+, and I want
to run some Unix on it (Wahey!). I've got a small problem though: It
only has one(!) RD32A disk (42MB). I know that this probably won't be
enough to hold a complete distribution, but which release can I install
bare-bones on that disk?
I might be able to slip in another MFM disk (but I don't have something
bigger than 21 MB at hand), provided I can low-level format it.
Your help is greatly appreciated..
--
Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.cx - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
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