TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

12 participants
6534 discussions

Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> > > revision 1.1 > > date: 2000/07/20 17:01:10; author: nsayer; state: Exp; > > Add the tap driver. > > Ah well, I still haven't used it. Neither have I ;) I thought (for 30 seconds or less) about porting it to BSD/OS - it's not that big and didn't appear to be overly tricky. Only reason I knew about 'tap' was that P11 has support for it and a pointer where to fetch 'tap' from. > > The reason for publishing an ARP entry on the hosting system is... > > I did that with a static route entry. Publishing an ARP entry has the benefit of not needing to wander around to all the systems on the LAN (I've several) and add a static route. In my case I don't own/run the local router so I couldn't add a static route if I wanted to. Having the host system 'arp ... pub' works was the simplest way to deal with the situation. > As I say, it's not that simple. I used it without trouble for years. Well, i'd have to see it working or have it explained in a bit more detail. Having been thru the DEQNA driver and IP stack in 2.11 I can't see how an 11 will communicate with anything over an ethernet if it can't perform the IP<->ethernet address mapping. > Recently something broke, and I suspect it trashed my root file > system, and I haven't had time to go back and fix it. Since others Ouch! On the 11 side? Or on the hosting system's side? Steven Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA53881 for pups-liszt; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:12:11 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Fri Oct 6 12:25:17 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA53877 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:12:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA66088 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:13:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from mail1.rdc1.il.home.com (mail1.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.76]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA53111 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:42:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cube1(a)home.com) Received: from ddjay.home.com ([24.10.213.208]) by mail1.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20001006024207.JBOT7359.mail1.rdc1.il.home.com(a)ddjay.home.com> for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:42:07 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001005212349.06086580@cirithi> X-Sender: cube1@cirithi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 21:25:17 -0500 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (UNIX Heritage Society Digest) From: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Subject: [pups] Re: UNIX Heritage Society Digest V1 #137 In-Reply-To: <200009241945.GAA72267(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I had to replace the RS 423 drives on my PDP-11/24 and in the connected VT-100 terminal after a problem on a PC clobbered the 11/24 console ports which in turn clobbered the VT-100 some time ago. --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA53897 for pups-liszt; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:14:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Fri Oct 6 13:35:03 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA53893 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:14:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA66113 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:15:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (root(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA53333 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:35:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e963Z3N21875; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:05:03 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:05:03 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Message-ID: <20001006130503.A21828(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200010051642.JAA03467(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200010051642.JAA03467(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 09:42:05AM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thursday, 5 October 2000 at 9:42:05 -0700, Steven M. Schultz wrote: >>> The reason for publishing an ARP entry on the hosting system is... >> I did that with a static route entry. > > Publishing an ARP entry has the benefit of not needing to wander > around to all the systems on the LAN (I've several) and add a static > route. In my case I don't own/run the local router so I couldn't > add a static route if I wanted to. Having the host system > 'arp ... pub' works was the simplest way to deal with the situation. > >> As I say, it's not that simple. I used it without trouble for years. > > Well, i'd have to see it working or have it explained in a bit more > detail. Having been thru the DEQNA driver and IP stack in 2.11 I > can't see how an 11 will communicate with anything over an ethernet > if it can't perform the IP<->ethernet address mapping. I don't know the details either, unfortunately. I really need to find some time to get the thing running again. >> Recently something broke, and I suspect it trashed my root file >> system, and I haven't had time to go back and fix it. Since others > > Ouch! On the 11 side? Or on the hosting system's side? On the 11 side. I'm not sure what happened, but it looks like it. It's not a big deal, since I have backups somewhere. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers

24 years, 9 months

Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator

by Frank Wortner

Just to let everyone know, Stephen Schultz was right: I needed arp table entries as he described.` Thanks to him and Greg Lehey for their useful replies. Frank Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA44035 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:00:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Frank Wortner <frank(a)wortner.com> Thu Oct 5 04:37:09 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA44023 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:00:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA61588 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:02:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.0.212]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA43020 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 05:37:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from frank(a)wortner.com) Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.0.228]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12733487A4 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by panix3.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) with ESMTP id OAA22748 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: panix3.panix.com: frank owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:37:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank Wortner <frank(a)wortner.com> X-Sender: frank(a)panix3.panix.com To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Default P11 Emulator Clock Rate Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0010041418140.20682-100000(a)panix3.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This is just an FYI for anyone playing with the Begemot P11 emulator ... The default clock rate on P11 is 50 Hz. While this corresponds to AC line frequency in many parts of the world, it is not correct for the U.S., where 60 Hz is the norm. Since PDP-11 Unix was developed in the U.S., the bootable distributions probably assume a 60 Hz clock also. When the software and "hardware" disagree on clock rates, problems happen. My emulated 11 had difficulties keeping accurate time until I discovered the 50 Hz clock rate. After I changed it to 60, the emulator's time was remarkably accurate! If you want to change the default clock rate, you can do so in the source (look for the symbol "clock_rate" in "main.c"), or you can just add set clock_rate 60 into your p11conf file. This will override the default in the emulator program. Have fun -- I certainly am! :-) Frank Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA44015 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:00:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Oct 5 01:24:07 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA44011 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:00:11 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA61560 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:01:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA42100 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:40:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19559 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:24:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200010041524.IAA19559(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> > No, that wasn't me. FreeBSD doesn't have a tap driver. Do you mean > Frank? Sure it does. The FreeBSD 4.1.1 release notes say so ;) Before that the 'if_tap.c' module was available (for some time) as a download that could be retrieved from the author's site. > > The missing piece I forgot earlier was on the hosting machine's > > side to publish an ARP entry for the simulated 11. > > I'm pretty sure we weren't using arp at all. tun is a point-to-point > interface. The reason for publishing an ARP entry on the hosting system is so that other systems on the LAN know how to get to the simulated 11 via the P11 hosting system. If the hosting system doesn't publish an ARP entry the gateway, etc won't know to send the packets to the machine running P11. > > I'm not sure how ARP can be made to work thru the 'tun' device. > > I don't think it can. I think Harti used some magic there. I know it can't - I asked him about it :) That's when I first discovered that nothing was able to communicate with the simulated 11 - the 11 will not send anything unless it's able to get a response to its ARP request. On the hosting side it would be possible perhaps to use a "interface route" but 2.11 can not do that and will block waiting for an ARPREPLY. Steven Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA44583 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:38:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Oct 5 08:27:58 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA44579 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:38:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA62065 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:40:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA44571 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:38:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21951 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:27:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200010042227.PAA21951(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Default P11 Emulator Clock Rate Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Frank Wortner <frank(a)wortner.com> > The default clock rate on P11 is 50 Hz. While this corresponds to AC line > frequency in many parts of the world, it is not correct for the > U.S., where 60 Hz is the norm. Since PDP-11 Unix was developed in the > U.S., the bootable distributions probably assume a 60 Hz clock Yes, the bootable 2.11 distribution assumes a 60Hz clock. That is easily changed though for folks that live in 50Hz areas. Edit the kernel config file and change LINEHZ to 50. The rest of the system has been changed to ask the kernel for the clockrate so there shouldn't be any compiled in assumptions outside the kernel (if I overlooked any let me know and I'll fix it). > My emulated 11 had difficulties keeping accurate time until I discovered > the 50 Hz clock rate. After I changed it to 60, the emulator's time was > remarkably accurate! Indeed it is accurate. Earlier versions of P11 would lose time very rapidly if the PDP-11 was "busy" - but the latest version of P11 is fantastic at keeping time. If you run 'ntpd' on the 11 the time stays even closer to "real". Steven Schultz Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA46919 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:03:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu Oct 5 13:03:25 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA46914 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:03:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA63282 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:04:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (root(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA45823 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:03:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e9533Pt12494; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:33:25 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:33:25 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Message-ID: <20001005123324.C12234(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200010041524.IAA19559(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200010041524.IAA19559(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 08:24:07AM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wednesday, 4 October 2000 at 8:24:07 -0700, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > >> From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> >> No, that wasn't me. FreeBSD doesn't have a tap driver. Do you mean >> Frank? > > Sure it does. The FreeBSD 4.1.1 release notes say so ;) > Before that the 'if_tap.c' module was available (for some time) > as a download that could be retrieved from the author's site. I stand corrected: > revision 1.1 > date: 2000/07/20 17:01:10; author: nsayer; state: Exp; > Add the tap driver. > > The tap driver is used to present a virtual Ethernet interface to the > system. Packets presented by the network stack to the interface are > made available to a character device in /dev. With tap and the bridge > code, you can make remote bridge configurations where both sides of > the bridge are separated by userland daemons. > > This driver also has a special naming hack to allow it to serve a similar > purpose to the vmware port. > > Submitted by: myevmenkin(a)att.com, vsilyaev(a)mindspring.com Ah well, I still haven't used it. >>> The missing piece I forgot earlier was on the hosting machine's >>> side to publish an ARP entry for the simulated 11. >> >> I'm pretty sure we weren't using arp at all. tun is a point-to-point >> interface. > > The reason for publishing an ARP entry on the hosting system is > so that other systems on the LAN know how to get to the simulated > 11 via the P11 hosting system. If the hosting system doesn't > publish an ARP entry the gateway, etc won't know to send the packets > to the machine running P11. I did that with a static route entry. >>> I'm not sure how ARP can be made to work thru the 'tun' device. >> >> I don't think it can. I think Harti used some magic there. > > I know it can't - I asked him about it :) That's when I first > discovered that nothing was able to communicate with the simulated > 11 - the 11 will not send anything unless it's able to get a > response to its ARP request. On the hosting side it would be > possible perhaps to use a "interface route" but 2.11 can not do that > and will block waiting for an ARPREPLY. As I say, it's not that simple. I used it without trouble for years. Recently something broke, and I suspect it trashed my root file system, and I haven't had time to go back and fix it. Since others have the rest running, it's obviously nothing fundamental. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers

24 years, 9 months

[pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator

by Frank Wortner

I've been trying to set up an emulated PDP-11 running 2.11 BSD. Just for the fun, I'm trying to get the 11 to talk on a LAN. Unfortunately, it's not working. My configuration is Begemot P11 Version 2.7 running under FreeBSD 4.1.1. I've booted 2.11, configured a custom networking kernel, installed the unix and netnix images, changed the IP addresses in /etc/hosts to match my LAN, run mkhosts to rebuild /etc/hosts.dir and /etc/hosts.pag and rebooted. On the P11 front, I've built a fake qma.rom file populated with zeros -- just like the P11 README file said, made sure that I had a tun driver configured in my FreeBSD system, and started P11. Then I did an ifconfig tun0 host-IP-address emulator-IP-address up Running ifconfig on the host confirmed that things *seemed* to be OK: # ifconfig tun0 tun0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1518 inet6 fe80::260:8ff:febd:5882%tun0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb inet host-IP-address --> emulator-IP-address netmask 0xffff0000 Opened by PID 32199 The IP addresses are identical in the first three octets, and differ only in the last octet. Unfortunately, once I boot 2.11 BSD, I can't contact the "outside world" from the emulator, nor contact the emulator from the outside. No telnet, no ftp, pings just hang. Everything looks OK from inside: # ifconfig qe0 qe0: flags=63<UP,BROADCAST,NOTRAILERS,RUNNING> inet emulator-IP-address netmask ffff0000 broadcast Bcast-IP What am I missing? Thanks in advance, Frank Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA36466 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:49:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Oct 4 09:47:22 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA36462 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:49:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA58459 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:51:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (root(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA36453 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:48:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e93NlMb05692; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:17:22 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:17:22 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: Frank Wortner <frank(a)wortner.com> Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Hartmut Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de>, Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)begemot.org> Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Message-ID: <20001004091722.C1760(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0010031544040.23696-100000(a)panix2.panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0010031544040.23696-100000(a)panix2.panix.com>; from frank(a)wortner.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 04:02:17PM -0400 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tuesday, 3 October 2000 at 16:02:17 -0400, Frank Wortner wrote: > I've been trying to set up an emulated PDP-11 running 2.11 BSD. Just for > the fun, I'm trying to get the 11 to talk on a LAN. Unfortunately, it's > not working. There's a bug. It used to work, and *something* changed. I've been meaning to look at it, but it's currently waiting on the tuit queue. > My configuration is Begemot P11 Version 2.7 running under > FreeBSD 4.1.1. I've booted 2.11, configured a custom networking kernel, > installed the unix and netnix images, changed the IP addresses in > /etc/hosts to match my LAN, run mkhosts to rebuild /etc/hosts.dir and > /etc/hosts.pag and rebooted. > > On the P11 front, I've built a fake qma.rom file populated with zeros -- > just like the P11 README file said, made sure that I had a tun driver > configured in my FreeBSD system, and started P11. I know the README says this will work, but I haven't been able to get it to work that way. Somewhere I have a real image; I'll see if I can find it. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA36700 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:12:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Oct 4 10:11:10 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA36696 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:12:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA58613 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:13:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA36682 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:11:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09035; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:11:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200010040011.RAA09035(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: frank(a)wortner.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > From: Frank Wortner <frank(a)wortner.com> > > I've been trying to set up an emulated PDP-11 running 2.11 BSD. Just for > the fun, I'm trying to get the 11 to talk on a LAN. Unfortunately, it's... > > My configuration is Begemot P11 Version 2.7 running under > FreeBSD 4.1.1. I've booted 2.11, configured a custom networking kernel, > installed the unix and netnix images, changed the IP addresses in... > > ifconfig tun0 host-IP-address emulator-IP-address up > > # ifconfig tun0 > tun0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1518 > inet6 fe80::260:8ff:febd:5882%tun0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb > inet host-IP-address --> emulator-IP-address netmask 0xffff0000 > Opened by PID 32199 > > The IP addresses are identical in the first three octets, and differ only > in the last octet. > > Unfortunately, once I boot 2.11 BSD, I can't contact the "outside > world" from the emulator, nor contact the emulator from the > outside. No telnet, no ftp, pings just hang. > What am I missing? You're missing ARP. 'tun' only works with IP - ARP packets are not IP and do not pass thru the 'if_tun' driver. I have (using BSD/OS 4.1's if_tun which is probably the same as FreeBSD's) an emulated 11 going quite nicely. What you need to do ON THE 11's SIDE, is populate his arp table with the information about any host on the local LAN that the 11 will want to talk to In /etc/netstart on the 11 side just after the 'ifconfig' lines: ifconfig qe0 inet netmask $netmask $hostname broadcast $broadcast up -trailers >/dev/console 2>&1 # ifconfig sl0 inet 192.254.254.2 192.254.254.1 -arp -trailers >/dev/console 2>&1 # slattach /dev/ttyS6 9600 # Next line needed when running under the Begemot emulator arp -s 206.139.202.1 "0:0:c:3d:e9:f7" pub arp -s 206.139.202.51 "0:a0:24:78:9c:21" pub arp -s 206.139.202.200 "0:90:27:88:64:74" pub arp -s 206.139.202.201 "08:0:2b:f:5b:a6" pub arp -s 206.139.202.209 "0:40:5:a4:72:27" pub ifconfig lo0 inet localhost up -trailers >/dev/console 2>&1 Typically you only need the ARP info for the hosting system and the default gateway. Oh, there's a bug in P11 that after 25 days of calendar up time the clock on the 11 basically stops ticking. I've a fix I came up with (and submitted to the author) but it'll be a couple weeks until I know for sure if it's the right fix (32bit overflow in a calculation). Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA37363 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:35:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Oct 4 11:29:11 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA37359 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:35:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA58957 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:37:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (root(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA37319 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:29:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id e941TBk07853; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:59:11 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:59:11 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: frank(a)wortner.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Message-ID: <20001004105911.H7292(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200010040011.RAA09035(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200010040011.RAA09035(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 05:11:10PM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tuesday, 3 October 2000 at 17:11:10 -0700, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi -- > >> From: Frank Wortner <frank(a)wortner.com> >> >> I've been trying to set up an emulated PDP-11 running 2.11 BSD. Just for >> the fun, I'm trying to get the 11 to talk on a LAN. Unfortunately, it's... >> >> My configuration is Begemot P11 Version 2.7 running under >> FreeBSD 4.1.1. I've booted 2.11, configured a custom networking kernel, >> installed the unix and netnix images, changed the IP addresses in... >> >> ifconfig tun0 host-IP-address emulator-IP-address up >> >> # ifconfig tun0 >> tun0: flags=8051<UP,POINTOPOINT,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1518 >> inet6 fe80::260:8ff:febd:5882%tun0 --> :: prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb >> inet host-IP-address --> emulator-IP-address netmask 0xffff0000 >> Opened by PID 32199 >> >> The IP addresses are identical in the first three octets, and differ only >> in the last octet. >> >> Unfortunately, once I boot 2.11 BSD, I can't contact the "outside >> world" from the emulator, nor contact the emulator from the >> outside. No telnet, no ftp, pings just hang. >> What am I missing? > > You're missing ARP. > > 'tun' only works with IP - ARP packets are not IP and do not pass > thru the 'if_tun' driver. > > I have (using BSD/OS 4.1's if_tun which is probably the same as > FreeBSD's) an emulated 11 going quite nicely. > > What you need to do ON THE 11's SIDE, is populate his arp table with > the information about any host on the local LAN that the 11 will > want to talk to I didn't need to do this when I had the emulated net running. I did set the netmask to 255.255.255.255, though, and put the default route through that interface. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA37613 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:10:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Oct 4 11:59:45 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA37609 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:10:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA59086 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:12:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA37598 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:09:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09659; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:59:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200010040159.SAA09659(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: grog(a)lemis.com, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: [pups] Networking With 2.11 BSD and Begemot Emulator Cc: frank(a)wortner.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> > > I didn't need to do this when I had the emulated net running. I did > set the netmask to 255.255.255.255, though, and put the default route > through that interface. I thought you mentioned using the 'tap' driver rather than 'tun' at one time. If my memory hasn't failed me that would explain why it worked since 'tap' passes ARP traffic. The missing piece I forgot earlier was on the hosting machine's side to publish an ARP entry for the simulated 11. Just after ifconfig'ing tun0 up use the hosting system's mac address: ifconfig tun0 206.139.202.200 206.139.202.203 up arp -s shemp 0:90:27:88:64:74 pub I'm not sure how ARP can be made to work thru the 'tun' device. Without ARP on an ethernet I am not aware of any 'routing' that can fill in the mac addresses in the ethernet packets. Try pub'ing the arp entries and see if that works. Might try 'tap' instead of 'tun' if you're looking for something else to try. Steven Schultz

24 years, 9 months

[pups] Re: RL02 discs

by Warren Toomey

In article by Netguru: > A friend of mine has some Digital RL02 > discs. > > We had the PDP/11 running at a TV station from > 1987 to 1992. > > The maintenence port was surged and the console > terminal wouldn't respond after that. > > The entire system is intact ; > 1-PDP/11 frame > 3-RL02 drives > 18-RL02 33MB discs with many archives on them > 5-vt52 terms > > he needs some parts to get it running / or > some tech info on how to get the data off the discs > (prefer access to a card for the PDP/11) > > anyway I think we all could benefit from this old system > coming to life !! > > Sincerely William Castle > Technology Integration Consultant > CCS - Kalkaska Michigan U.S.A. Hi William, I'll pass this on to a PDP-11 Unix mailing list for some ideas. You might also like to try the Usenet newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11, vmsnet.pdp-11. Cheers, Warren

24 years, 9 months

[pups] Identifying old computers (was: [no subject])

by Greg Lehey

On Friday, 18 August 2000 at 13:37:39 -0500, Spoof wrote: > Hello! Sorry, this languished in my inbox for a while because it didn't have a recognizable subject. I don't recognize the machines, either, but maybe somebody on the PUPS list does. Greg > If you are receiving this email, it is because I found your name during a > websearch about 'classic computing'. At any rate, I have obtained two > computers and I'd like to find out what they are. if you could help me > identfy them i would greatly appreciate it. I was told by the source of > these computers (who seemed very convinvced) that they were PDP-4 > computers. Every site I've seen that covers the pdp-4 says that there were > only about 50 of them ever sold. However, Digital's own site does mention > that some were sold for nuclear applications, and the computers I got were > indeed from a nuclear lab. > > The thing is, there doesnt seem to be any mention of "Digital" or the PDP > name anywhere. > > I'll describe the computers: > > One looks newer, it says "Tracor Northern TN-1610" on the faceplate. It > has 18 ligts across the face and 18 switches directly below, in a bank > labeled "Switch Register". There is another bank of 6 ligts labeled "RUN, > CPU BUS, VIRT, PWR, BUS, USER" > There is a small bank of 3 switches labeled ADDR/DATA, PHYS/VIRT, and INTR. > There is a last bank of 6 switches labelled LOAD ADDR, EXAM, CONT, > ENAB/HALT, START, LOAD DATA. There is also a power switch. > On the bottom of the faceplate is a logo raised in plastic which I didn't > understand until I looked inside the case and found a circuit board which > said "California Data Procesors" (the logo said "CDP" in a funky '60s > style), I've never heard of CDP- perhaps I heard "PDP4" when he actually > said "CDP-4"? > > The second computer looks older. (1960's vs. 1970s). > It's faceplate says "ND812" and "Nuclear Data Inc". There is a rotating > switch labelled "Select Register" with the following positions: Status, S, > R, K, J, Address, PC, External. > There is a keyswitch with three postions: Power off, Power on, Control off. > There is a bank of 12 lights, labelled "Selected Register", the lights are > labelled 0-11 and an extra (13th) light labeled "Overflow". > > There is another bank of 12 lights, labeled "memory Register", again > labeled 0-11. Next to it is a pair of lights labeled "Memory Field" 0 or 1. > next to that is another pair of lights labeled "Run" and "Interrupt. > > Under the lights is a bank of 12 switches labeled "Switch Register". > > There are two switches simply labeled 0 and 1. > > There are two switches labeled Start and Stop > > Another two switches labeled Load AR and Load MR > > Another two labeled Next Word and Cont > > And another two labeled Step and Instr > > > The older computer seems put together in a complicated sort of way (stacked > PCB's wired together) whereas the newer one is more modular (I.E. large > cards that are simply slide in and out of sockets.) > > Both seem to have core memory but it's arranged in such a way that I can't > actually see it with out breaking some paper seals which I dont want to do > unless necessary. The parts of the boards that I can see have intricate > patterns that seem to indicate core memory (plus the guy told me that they > both used core mem). > > I have a (kind of lousy) digital camera and i can take pictures of the > faceplates if you think this might help in your identification. > > As I said, both were in use in a lab. The older one has a set of two tape > drives (they look to be regular audio cassette size) and the newer one has > one tape drive. However I was supplied with piles of punched tape programs > (i guess there was a tape reader with these computers at some point?) i was > given a lot of documentation but most of it has "NDI" written on it and it > is about taking nuclear data measurements. > Both are in large rackmount cases (which I don't have) and were mounted > with other equipment. > > > I'm interested to know what these computers are, how much they cost when > new, and what their capabilities are. Supposedly they were replaced by a > single $4000 MCI interface card in a PC. > > If you have no idea but you think you know someone who might, please do not > hesitate to suggest that person to me. > > Thank you for taking the time to read this email. > > -Kev > > > _____________________________________________ > Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! > http://www.MyOwnEmail.com > -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers

24 years, 10 months

[pups] mystery LSI-11 heath H11 board

by Aaron J. Grier

an electrician came in to my place of employment last week and installed some new lighting in the "engineering junkyard" which was previously a very dark place. The new light prompted me to do some exploring, and in doing so, I spotted a heath H11! unfortunately, it looks like the case has been stripped, as only one half-height board remains in the cardcage. The handle is labeled "Heath Serial I/O." I threw it on a flatbed scanner and the pictures are here: http://www.poofygoof.com/~agrier/lsi11f.jpg http://www.poofygoof.com/~agrier/lsi11b.jpg Is this one of heathkit's almost-like-DEC-but-not-quite boards? -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofygoof.com

24 years, 10 months

[pups] Needed 2.11BSD 9-track boot tapes

by Gregory R. Travis

What I have: 11/83, QBUS, 2MB, DH11, running RT-11 5.04 plus TSX - Kermit is installed on the machine 2x CDC 384MB SMD disks attached to Emulex Controller emulating MSCP 1 DigiData 800/1600 BPI 9-track drive attached to TM-11 emulating controller What I need: Way to get 2.11BSD onto one of the CDC drives (preferably not to one with RT-11). How I can do that: 1. Kermit transfer of 2.11BSD images to RT-11 q1. Is there a way to then transfer from RT-11 to one of the CDC disks? q2. Is there a way to then transfer from RT-11 to tape images on the DigiData? 2. A kind soul sends me a set of 9-track 2.11BSD tapes with boot images. 3. Other? Any takers? Thanks! greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA56396 for pups-liszt; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:34:57 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Aug 14 11:30:40 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA56392 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:34:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22875 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:35:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA56383 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:33:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18988 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:30:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200008140130.SAA18988(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: [pups] Needed 2.11BSD 9-track boot tapes Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> > What I have: > > 11/83, QBUS, 2MB, DH11, running RT-11 5.04 plus TSX > - Kermit is installed on the machine > 2x CDC 384MB SMD disks attached to Emulex Controller emulating MSCP > 1 DigiData 800/1600 BPI 9-track drive attached to TM-11 emulating > controller It wouldn't happen to be an Emulex UC07 or UC08 would it? If so there are a couple possibilities that open up. > How I can do that: > 1. Kermit transfer of 2.11BSD images to RT-11 Slow but sure - the sum total of data to move is close to 80mb > q1. Is there a way to then transfer from RT-11 to one > of the CDC disks? I don't think RT-11 understands the 2.11BSD filesystem so I don't think this approach can be made to work. > q2. Is there a way to then transfer from RT-11 to tape > images on the DigiData? This can be made to work but it depends on having a program that can transfer the the files "bytes as bytes" (no record format interpretation, etc) _and_ handle multiple blocking factors on the first tape. If you have the PDP-11 volume of the archives you should see in the PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD directory two files called 'maketape.c' and 'maketape.data'. It's a small program and if a counterpart to that could be created for RT-11 you'd be all set to go. The layout of the first tape normally is: mtboot+mtboot+boot (512 byte blocking factor) <tapemark> disklabel (1024 byte blocking factor) <tapemark> mkfs (1024 byte blocking factor) <tapemark> restor (1024 byte blocking factor) <tapemark> icheck (1024 byte blocking factor) <tapemark> root.dump (10240 byte blocking factor) <tapemark> file6.tar (10240 byte blocking factor) <tapemark> file7.tar (10240 byte blocking factor) <tapemark> <tapemark> The 2nd tape contains file8.tar blocked at 10240 bytes. The "boot" tape really only need to have the first few files, up to and including 'root.dump'. Those are enough to boot the tape, run the standalone utilties to label the disk, create the filesystem and restor the root filesystem. The tar archives can be (with suitable interpolation of the installation instructions) be placed on individual tapes. This may be necessary because file7.tar may or may not fit any longer on the first tape. Why three blocking factors? Well, partly historical and partly hardware reasons. The first "file" contains the 'bootblock' and that needs to be 512 bytes since that's all the hardware will read. The standalone i/o system uses 1024 byte blocks so the next few files use 1k records. After the standalone utilities are done and the system is loaded 'tar' can use its default 20 sector (10kb) record size. > 2. A kind soul sends me a set of 9-track 2.11BSD tapes with > boot images. My tape drive may or may not work - it's been ages since it was last powered up and I fear the rubber parts may have disintegrated (or the capacitors dried out, etc). > 3. Other? If you could find a TK70+TQK70 drive+controller that would be awesome. They're pretty cheap (less than $100 I believe - I didn't pay much for mine). Or even a TK50 drive (almost free) attached to a TQK70 would be fine. The TQK70 is a vastly better controller than the TQK50 because the former has a buffer cache that makes a huge difference is how often the tape stops moving. If the Emulex controller you have is SCSI based (UC07 or 08) then someone could stage and make available a 2.11BSD Zip disk image with all the stuff needed to boot and run the installation proceedure (I've a Zip disk attached to my UC08 - works great). Alternatively a 2.11 formatted CDROM could be created and a CDrom drive (that knew about 512 byte blocks instead of 2048 byte blocks) could be used. Good Luck! Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA57080 for pups-liszt; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:12:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> Mon Aug 14 13:25:30 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA57076 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:12:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25335 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:12:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from goby.ciswired.com (IDENT:root@goby.ciswired.com [206.97.67.65]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA56900 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:21:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from greg(a)ciswired.com) Received: from weasel.ciswired.com (root(a)weasel.ciswired.com [206.97.67.73]) by goby.ciswired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25189; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:17:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (greg@localhost) by weasel.ciswired.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30939; Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:25:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: weasel.ciswired.com: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:25:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: [pups] Needed 2.11BSD 9-track boot tapes In-Reply-To: <200008140130.SAA18988(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10008132221010.30812-100000(a)weasel.ciswired.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> > > What I have: > > > > 11/83, QBUS, 2MB, DH11, running RT-11 5.04 plus TSX > > - Kermit is installed on the machine > > 2x CDC 384MB SMD disks attached to Emulex Controller emulating MSCP > > 1 DigiData 800/1600 BPI 9-track drive attached to TM-11 emulating > > controller > > It wouldn't happen to be an Emulex UC07 or UC08 would it? If so > there are a couple possibilities that open up. No, it's a DigiData board. Single QBUS board. Two 40-pin connectors. > > > How I can do that: > > 1. Kermit transfer of 2.11BSD images to RT-11 > > Slow but sure - the sum total of data to move is close to 80mb I've already been waiting a few weeks :-) > This can be made to work but it depends on having a program that can > transfer the the files "bytes as bytes" (no record format > interpretation, etc) _and_ handle multiple blocking factors on the > first tape. > > If you have the PDP-11 volume of the archives you should see in the > PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD directory two files called 'maketape.c' > and 'maketape.data'. It's a small program and if a counterpart to > that could be created for RT-11 you'd be all set to go. Yeah, it's the RT-11 part that I don't know. It's a little hard to believe that in 20+ years no-one has come up with an RT-11 program to build UNIX distribution tapes! :-) (again) > > 2. A kind soul sends me a set of 9-track 2.11BSD tapes with > > boot images. > > My tape drive may or may not work - it's been ages since it was > last powered up and I fear the rubber parts may have disintegrated > (or the capacitors dried out, etc). The Windex and electrical tape are on me. Did I mention that I would happiliy provide 9-track boot service in the future? That is. once I can get a system running! > If the Emulex controller you have is SCSI based (UC07 or 08) then > someone could stage and make available a 2.11BSD Zip disk image > with all the stuff needed to boot and run the installation proceedure > (I've a Zip disk attached to my UC08 - works great). > Alternatively a 2.11 formatted CDROM could be created and a CDrom > drive (that knew about 512 byte blocks instead of 2048 byte blocks) > could be used. Not SCSI, SMD/MSCP/Pertec formatted unfortunately greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18

24 years, 11 months

Re: [pups] Overlays?

by Steven M. Schultz

HI! > From: Jorgen Pehrson <jp(a)spektr.eu.org> > I've just installed 2.11BSD on one of my PDPs, from a TK50 tape I just > re-discovered in the trunk of my car. And now I'm in the process of Wow - those TK50s are quite robust to survive being stored in the truck of a car. I've had audio tapes that did not survive ;) > applying patches. When I installed patch 412 and started to rebuild the > kernel, ld complains with a "ld: too big for type 431". > Does this means that I have to rearrange stuff between the BASE and the > various OV entries? Indeed it does mean exactly that. > How can I find out which overlay is too big? I've tried to do a: > 138% root--> size unix.o Yep - that is the correct method. > text data bss dec hex > 52352 6928 37622 96902 17a86 total text: 115520 > overlays: 7680,7232,7808,7744,4864,8576,4736,6848,7680 > > How big is too big? And also if none of the overlays above are too big, I > guess it must be the BASE that is too big? I thought I wrote this up at one time but I may have only thought about it ;) > Is there some sort of documentation anywhere that describe this voodoo > stuff and black magic a bit? Is it in one an Appendix to the "Setup&Installation" document? In the case above it is OV6 (overlays are numbered from 1) that is too big. The rules are: 1) BASE can be 56kb (57344) max 2) OVerlays can be 8kb (8192) max 3) There can be no 0 length overlays (except for the very last one). > Any suggestions on what .o file I should move to what overlay? Look at the Makefile - you should see a line that starts "OV6=". Do a "size" on the .o files listed for OV6. Pick one that will fix elsewhere - I'd suggest OV5 since it is only 4864 bytes and has lots of room. You could also move a .o file to the BASE since it has adequate room also. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20356 for pups-liszt; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:31:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Aug 1 03:12:43 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20352 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:31:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18497 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:29:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18526 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 1 Aug 2000 03:28:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02116; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:12:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200007311712.KAA02116(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, rblair(a)webteksdesign.com Subject: Re: [pups] makesimtape.c Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi! > From: "Ryan Blair" <rblair(a)webteksdesign.com> > > While reading back through the mailing list messages, trying to find out why > my tape images never seem to work, I came across a program that I cannot > seem to find. It was mentioned lately as "makesimtape.c" but I cannot find > it anywhere in the archives. Anybody have a lead on this? Yep - I have a lead (not too surprising since I wrote the program :)) I think the program's present in the PUPS archive in the top of the 2.11 tree area but it may have been relocated or whatever over time. Here's the program - it should compile on just about anything that has the 'mtio' ioctl functions. It is very similar to 'maketape' (intentional since makesimtape.c started out as a copy of maketape.c). Steven Schultz moe.2bsd.com -------------------------- /* * @(#)makesimtape.c 2.1 (2.11BSD) 1998/12/31 * Hacked 'maketape.c' to write a file in a format suitable for * use with Bob Supnik's PDP-11 simulator (V2.3) emulated tape * driver. * * NOTE: a PDP-11 has to flip the shorts within the long when writing out * the record size. Seems a PDP-11 is neither a little-endian * machine nor a big-endian one. */ #include <stdio.h> #include <errno.h> #include <fcntl.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <sys/types.h> #include <sys/stat.h> #include <sys/uio.h> #define MAXB 30 char buf[MAXB * 512]; char name[50]; long recsz, flipped, trl(); int blksz; int mt, fd, cnt; struct iovec iovec[3]; struct iovec tmark[2]; void usage(); main(argc, argv) int argc; char *argv[]; { int i, j = 0, k = 0; long zero = 0; register char *outfile = NULL, *infile = NULL; FILE *mf; struct stat st; while ((i = getopt(argc, argv, "i:o:")) != EOF) { switch (i) { case 'o': outfile = optarg; break; case 'i': infile = optarg; break; default: usage(); /* NOTREACHED */ } } if (!outfile || !infile) usage(); /* NOTREACHED */ /* * Stat the outfile and make sure it either 1) Does not exist, or * 2) Exists but is a regular file. */ if (stat(outfile, &st) != -1 && !(S_ISREG(st.st_mode))) errx(1, "outfile must either not exist or be a regular file"); /* NOTREACHED */ mt = open(outfile, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0600); if (mt < 0) err(1, "Can not create %s", outfile); /* NOTREACHED */ mf = fopen(infile, "r"); if (!mf) err(1, "Can not open %s", infile); /* NOTREACHED*/ tmark[0].iov_len = sizeof (long); tmark[0].iov_base = (char *)&zero; while (1) { if ((i = fscanf(mf, "%s %d", name, &blksz))== EOF) exit(0); if (i != 2) { fprintf(stderr,"Help! Scanf didn't read 2 things (%d)\n", i); exit(1); } if (blksz <= 0 || blksz > MAXB) { fprintf(stderr, "Block size %u is invalid\n", blksz); exit(1); } recsz = blksz * 512; /* convert to bytes */ iovec[0].iov_len = sizeof (recsz); #ifdef pdp11 iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&flipped; #else iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&recsz; #endif iovec[1].iov_len = (int)recsz; iovec[1].iov_base = buf; iovec[2].iov_len = iovec[0].iov_len; iovec[2].iov_base = iovec[0].iov_base; if (strcmp(name, "*") == 0) { if (writev(mt, tmark, 1) < 0) warn(1, "writev of pseudo tapemark failed"); k++; continue; } fd = open(name, 0); if (fd < 0) err(1, "Can't open %s for reading", name); /* NOTREACHED */ printf("%s: block %d, file %d\n", name, j, k); /* * we pad the last record with nulls * (instead of the bell std. of padding with trash). * this allows you to access text files on the * tape without garbage at the end of the file. * (note that there is no record length associated * with tape files) */ while ((cnt=read(fd, buf, (int)recsz)) == (int)recsz) { j++; #ifdef pdp11 flipped = trl(recsz); #endif if (writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0) err(1, "writev #1"); /* NOTREACHED */ } if (cnt > 0) { j++; bzero(buf + cnt, (int)recsz - cnt); #ifdef pdp11 flipped = trl(recsz); #endif if (writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0) err(1, "writev #2"); /* NOTREACHED */ } close(fd); } /* * Write two tape marks to simulate EOT */ writev(mt, tmark, 1); writev(mt, tmark, 1); } long trl(l) long l; { union { long l; short s[2]; } foo; register short x; foo.l = l; x = foo.s[0]; foo.s[0] = foo.s[1]; foo.s[1] = x; return(foo.l); } void usage() { fprintf(stderr, "usage: makesimtape -o outfilefile -i inputfile\n"); exit(1); }

24 years, 11 months

[pups] Overlays?

by Jorgen Pehrson

Hi, I've just installed 2.11BSD on one of my PDPs, from a TK50 tape I just re-discovered in the trunk of my car. And now I'm in the process of applying patches. When I installed patch 412 and started to rebuild the kernel, ld complains with a "ld: too big for type 431". Does this means that I have to rearrange stuff between the BASE and the various OV entries? How can I find out which overlay is too big? I've tried to do a: 138% root--> size unix.o text data bss dec hex 52352 6928 37622 96902 17a86 total text: 115520 overlays: 7680,7232,7808,7744,4864,8576,4736,6848,7680 How big is too big? And also if none of the overlays above are too big, I guess it must be the BASE that is too big? Is there some sort of documentation anywhere that describe this voodoo stuff and black magic a bit? Btw, I've put my makefile is at http://spektr.eu.org/~jp/Makefile.LOKE. Any suggestions on what .o file I should move to what overlay? Thanks! -- Jörgen Pehrson jp(a)spektr.eu.org http://spektr.eu.org/~jp/ ----------------------------------------------------------- "i must say the linux community is a lot nicer than the unix community. a negative comment on unix would warrent death threats. with linux, it is like stirring up a nest of butterflies." -- Ken Thompson. 1999 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16344 for pups-liszt; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:30:05 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Ryan Blair" <rblair(a)webteksdesign.com> Sat Jul 29 07:12:05 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16340 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:30:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16752 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:28:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us (waverly.k12.mi.us [204.38.93.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01052 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 07:15:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from rblair(a)webteksdesign.com) Received: from rbp200 (pm170-19.dialip.mich.net [35.9.15.180]) by scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA84808 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:12:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rblair(a)webteksdesign.com) Message-ID: <000b01bff8d8$831b6be0$b40f0923@rbp200> From: "Ryan Blair" <rblair(a)webteksdesign.com> To: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] makesimtape.c Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:12:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk While reading back through the mailing list messages, trying to find out why my tape images never seem to work, I came across a program that I cannot seem to find. It was mentioned lately as "makesimtape.c" but I cannot find it anywhere in the archives. Anybody have a lead on this? Thanks, Ryan Blair rblair(a)webteksdesign.com

24 years, 11 months

[pups] V7 vs RX50 (was Getting a MicroPDP-11 Running)

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

400KB floppies, or even 1.4MB ones, may seem tiny now; but they should hardly be undersized for a bare-bones V7 root file system. Remember that disks weren't all that big in the late 1970s, and that one of the important fixes in V7 was that it became possible to make a file system bigger than 32MB. The V7 version of the `Setting Up UNIX' paper doesn't say just how big the root file system dump is, but the instructions say the file system itself should have 5000 blocks: about 2.4MB. If the dump was that big, it would have taken just over 6 RX50 diskettes. (But it probably wasn't that big, because there must have been a good bit of free space in the standard root--/tmp was there too!) I once ran a stripped-down V7 off a single RK05 (2.5MB including swap) for several days, during an air-conditioning crisis. The system wasn't fully-functional, but there was enough there to let the secretarial staff keep up with their typing, and even run troff. The real trouble with the RX50 is not so much the size as the speed: the damn things are painfully slow. I sometimes boot my V10 MicroVAXes from RX50, as part of an experimental Jumpstart-like installation scheme. The bare-bones installation environment requires only two floppies; the real nuisance is that it takes several minutes to read them. And, of course, V7 doesn't have an MSCP driver, since MSCP didn't hit the streets until 1982 or so. Norman Wilson

24 years, 11 months

Jump to page:

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

1996

1995

1994

1993

1992

1991

1990

TUHS