Fear not, Gregg; no twists intended or assumed. It could well be
that there was an earlier print run of The UNIX Programming Environment
that got it wrong and claimed to be done with V7 on an 11/750. But
I've never seen it (which is why I specified the exact edition and
printing I was quoting); and if it said that it was an error or a fib.
So far as I know nobody ever did a port of straight V7 to a VAX.
TUPE was written just before I arrived at the Labs; it's possible
that the 11/70 was still around during the writing, though it was
gone before I came. I don't know whether the name V8 was coined
before the 11/70 was retired. Maybe Dennis remembers more.
The original edition of The C Programming Language was certainly
done on an 11/70; it may have been published before the VAX hardware
existed in the field, and certainly before that part of Bell Labs
had one. My beat-up paperback copy (copyright 1978, third printing)
credits Graphic Systems for the typesetter, the 11/70 for the system
hardware, but just says UNIX--no version stated--for the OS.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
Look again. The colophon in my copy of The UNIX Programming Environment
(first paperback printing of the first edition) says
This book was typeset in Times Roman and Courier by the
authors, using a Mergenthaler Linotron 202 typesetter driven
by a VAX-11/750 running the 8th Edition of the UNIX operating
system.
I don't have a copy of the latter-day (now contains ISO) C book, but
if I recall correctly when it was written, it was probably typed in
on a VAX 8550 running the 9th edition system. Probably it was the
latter-day 9th, which had crept along quite a bit beyond the hasty
9/e manual. After I made some radical changes to the way device
drivers plugged into the kernel, I changed it to print `9Vr2' when
it booted, partly to distinguish the old system from the newer one
and partly to annoy enough people to reach critical energy to produce
a 10/e manual. The tactic took a while but was ultimately successful.
For those who don't know the historic chain, the systems loosely
called V8, V9, and V10 were never real releases in any sense; they
were just names hung on the continuously-evolving system we ran in
the 1980s in the Computing Science Research Center at Bell Labs.
Brian and Dennis and Rob (and, for six years, I) used that system
for everyday work as well as as a sandbox for systems work; hence
the credit in the books. There were tapes called V8 and V9 issued
to a few specific places under special on-off letter agreement, but
they correspond only approximately to the like-numbered manuals.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
(which feels a lot like New Jersey this evening)
Sorry this message was intented to be sent to the list.
(sorry gregg)
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Natalia Portillo [mailto:iosglpgc@teleline.es]
> Enviado el: viernes, 27 de junio de 2003 1:51
> Para: 'Gregg C Levine'
> Asunto: RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants
>
>
> I think that you can always compare with ice creams.
>
> UNIX is an ice cream brand.
> It have many flavours: Bell/AT&T, BSD, Xenix, AIX, A/UX,
> Coherent, etc.
> There are other brands.
> MINIX which have only a flavour.
> Linux, with many flavours as RedHat, YDL, Debian, etc
>
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] En nombre de Gregg C Levine
> > Enviado el: martes, 24 de junio de 2003 23:29
> > Para: 'Warren Toomey'; 'The Unix Heritage Society'
> > Asunto: RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants
> >
> >
> > Hello from Gregg C Levine
> > Go ahead and laugh, but your server could be having a bad day today.
> > That being said, I am curious myself, as to the differences. Can
> > someone come up with the definite explanation regarding which is
> > which?
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke."Â Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Warren Toomey
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 6:22 PM
> > > To: The Unix Heritage Society
> > > Subject: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants
> > >
> > > I'm not sure why mailman rejected this e-mail. Anyway, here it is.
> > > Warren
> > >
> > > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086
> > > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:39:11 -0700
> > > Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086
> > > From: "Ian King" <iking(a)windows.microsoft.com>
> > > To: "Natalia Portillo" <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es>,
> > <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
> > >
> > > I'm trying to discern the difference between a variant and a
> > derivative.
> > > :-) Yes, we can trace back to the One True UNIX, but after things
> > > started branching it gets pretty confusing. It's possibly an
> > > indefensible taxonomy to distinguish a 'variant'
> (Coherent? XINU?)
> > from
> > > a derivative (which would encompass any BSD forms, I guess).
> > >
> > > FWIW, a while back someone was selling XINU ported to
> 8086 (I recall
> > > buying a set of 5-1/4" source disks a thousand or so
> years ago). Is
> > > that more the sort of thing you're looking for? The current
> > version(s)
> > > of XINU are available at
> > http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/dec/xsoft.html,
> > > according to Google. -- Ian
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TUHS mailing list
> > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
>
Hello from Gregg C Levine
Okay. That's almost how I describe the state of the art to my friends,
and co-workers, and even customers. But shouldn't you have sent this
to the list as well as to me?
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."Â Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Natalia Portillo [mailto:iosglpgc@teleline.es]
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:51 PM
> To: 'Gregg C Levine'
> Subject: RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants
>
> I think that you can always compare with ice creams.
>
> UNIX is an ice cream brand.
> It have many flavours: Bell/AT&T, BSD, Xenix, AIX, A/UX, Coherent,
etc.
> There are other brands.
> MINIX which have only a flavour.
> Linux, with many flavours as RedHat, YDL, Debian, etc
>
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] En nombre de Gregg C Levine
> > Enviado el: martes, 24 de junio de 2003 23:29
> > Para: 'Warren Toomey'; 'The Unix Heritage Society'
> > Asunto: RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants
> >
> >
> > Hello from Gregg C Levine
> > Go ahead and laugh, but your server could be having a bad day
today.
> > That being said, I am curious myself, as to the differences. Can
> > someone come up with the definite explanation regarding which is
> > which?
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke."Â Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Warren Toomey
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 6:22 PM
> > > To: The Unix Heritage Society
> > > Subject: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants
> > >
> > > I'm not sure why mailman rejected this e-mail. Anyway, here it
is.
> > > Warren
> > >
> > > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086
> > > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:39:11 -0700
> > > Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086
> > > From: "Ian King" <iking(a)windows.microsoft.com>
> > > To: "Natalia Portillo" <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es>,
> > <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
> > >
> > > I'm trying to discern the difference between a variant and a
> > derivative.
> > > :-) Yes, we can trace back to the One True UNIX, but after
things
> > > started branching it gets pretty confusing. It's possibly an
> > > indefensible taxonomy to distinguish a 'variant' (Coherent?
XINU?)
> > from
> > > a derivative (which would encompass any BSD forms, I guess).
> > >
> > > FWIW, a while back someone was selling XINU ported to 8086 (I
recall
> > > buying a set of 5-1/4" source disks a thousand or so years ago).
Is
> > > that more the sort of thing you're looking for? The current
> > version(s)
> > > of XINU are available at
> > http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/dec/xsoft.html,
> > > according to Google. -- Ian
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TUHS mailing list
> > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
Just guessing,
Any of these antique VAX and other machines running UNIXes arrived my
islands?
Does anybody know?
Is there a possibility for a museum (my computer museum) to get one of
these machines?
Thanks to all ;)
Just noticed in the publication data for "The UNIX Programming Environment"
that
it was created on a VAX 11/750 running V7 UNIX. How is this possible? I have
an 11/750 and V7 is my favorite UNIX... if I could do this, it would be
awesome.
Anyone have any insights?
I'm not sure why mailman rejected this e-mail. Anyway, here it is.
Warren
Subject: RE: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:39:11 -0700
Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086
From: "Ian King" <iking(a)windows.microsoft.com>
To: "Natalia Portillo" <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es>, <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
I'm trying to discern the difference between a variant and a derivative.
:-) Yes, we can trace back to the One True UNIX, but after things
started branching it gets pretty confusing. It's possibly an
indefensible taxonomy to distinguish a 'variant' (Coherent? XINU?) from
a derivative (which would encompass any BSD forms, I guess).
FWIW, a while back someone was selling XINU ported to 8086 (I recall
buying a set of 5-1/4" source disks a thousand or so years ago). Is
that more the sort of thing you're looking for? The current version(s)
of XINU are available at http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/dec/xsoft.html,
according to Google. -- Ian
warren
you missunderstood my point , I didn't imply it has at&t code !, what I
meant is it has the look and feel of at&t unix and indeed it was modeled (if
you prefer instead of derived :-) ) after unix 6 as per the author and the
way it look and feel.
as for the book , yup I read both the original book and the second one ,
that's what I meant it's an educational project oriented towards students.
cheers
zmkm
>From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org>
>To: The Unix Heritage Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
>Subject: Re: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086
>Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:28:41 +1000
>
>On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 05:29:11PM +0000, zmkm zmkm wrote:
> > actually [Minix is] indeed derived from at&t unix 6 also it feels closer
>to
> > the actual old unix than other newer variants and it comes with C
>compiler and
> > an assembler in the distribution
>
>Sorry to be a pedant here, but Minix was written wholly from scratch and
>has no AT&T code in it at all. I know, I've been playing with it since
>version 1.1. See also Tanenbaum's Operating Systems: Design and
>Implementation
>textbook for the fully story.
>
>Ciao!
> Warren
>_______________________________________________
>TUHS mailing list
>TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
He's using RSX :)
--f
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:46 PM
> To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org; robin.birch(a)royalmail.com
> Subject: Re: [pups] PDP11 C
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:26:21 +0000
> > Subject: [pups] PDP11 C
> >
> > Panic over, I've found a copy that I didn't realise I had :-)
>
> Just out of curiousity, which operating system did you have in
> mind? A run-time library is rather OS-dependent.
>
> carl
>
> --
> carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
> clowenst(a)ucsd.edu
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:26:21 +0000
> Subject: [pups] PDP11 C
>
> Panic over, I've found a copy that I didn't realise I had :-)
Just out of curiousity, which operating system did you have in
mind? A run-time library is rather OS-dependent.
carl
--
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenst(a)ucsd.edu
