> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:53:07 -0400
> From: Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>
> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [TUHS] Uwisc4.3 question...
>
> I went ahead and downloaded this [
> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/ ],
> made up some tape images and installed it on SIMH... And what I found
> is that as far as I can tell there is *NO* information about this
> thing..
>
> All I can find is that it includes the vfs layer from SunOS and it's
> NFS... It looks like beta software from the root user being "The Not
> Ready for Prime Time Super User".
Does the code actually say "Sun Microsystems"? If not, then this might have
been the VFS and NFS stuff that got folded back into BSD Reno.
I think there were other schools that ran this. At the same time
as this entry (1989) I was a sysadmin in the computing center
of Emory University and we were running Mt. Xinu's mixture of
4.3 BSD with NFS from Sun, and then later their commercial Unix
on Vax 11/780s, and starting to move to Sparcs running SunOS 4.0.
The comp. center preferred having a vendor with whom there could be
a support contract - IIRC then otherwise we probably would have
been running this too.
Ah, those were the days, when men were real men, and computers
were vaxen. :-)
> FWIW here is the UUCP entry I found...
> ------
> #N eedsp
> #S Vax 11/780; 4.3+NFS Wisconsin Unix
> #O School of Electrical Engineering
> #C Deborah J. Jackson
> #E gt-eedsp!deb
> #T +1 404 894 3058
> #P School of EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA, 30332
> #L 84 23 43 W / 33 46 30 N
> #W eedsp!deb (Deb Jackson); Wed Jul 19 11:35:13 EDT 1989
> ------
I knew Deb Jackson and worked with her a little when we were both at GT
(I was in Information and Computer Science, not EE) and then a lot when
I suggested that the start-up company I was at hire her (which they
did). I've not seen her in around 18 years, nor do I know where she is
now, although presumably she's still in Atlanta somewhere.
Arnold
if anyone is interested, I noticed that if you remove the error
checking form the recv portion of the if_de driver it seems to work
for 4.3 BSD & variants... As far as I know there is no if_de for 4.2
BSD... But then if there were you would still have it's
incompatibility problems...
Anyways, here is a diff from 4.3 BSD
*** if_de-orig.c Mon Mar 24 04:05:10 1986
--- if_de.c Mon Mar 24 04:06:09 1986
***************
*** 457,466 ****
len = (rp->r_lenerr&RERR_MLEN) - sizeof (struct ether_header)
- 4; /* don't forget checksum! */
/* check for errors */
! if ((rp->r_flags & (RFLG_ERRS|RFLG_FRAM|RFLG_OFLO|RFLG_CRC)) ||
(rp->r_flags&(RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP)) != (RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP) ||
(rp->r_lenerr & (RERR_BUFL|RERR_UBTO|RERR_NCHN)) ||
len < ETHERMIN || len > ETHERMTU) {
ds->ds_if.if_ierrors++;
if (dedebug)
printf("de%d: ierror, flags=%b lenerr=%b (len=%d)\n",
--- 457,468 ----
len = (rp->r_lenerr&RERR_MLEN) - sizeof (struct ether_header)
- 4; /* don't forget checksum! */
/* check for errors */
! /*** if ((rp->r_flags & (RFLG_ERRS|RFLG_FRAM|RFLG_OFLO|RFLG_CRC)) ||
(rp->r_flags&(RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP)) != (RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP) ||
(rp->r_lenerr & (RERR_BUFL|RERR_UBTO|RERR_NCHN)) ||
len < ETHERMIN || len > ETHERMTU) {
+ ***/
+ if(1==5){
ds->ds_if.if_ierrors++;
if (dedebug)
printf("de%d: ierror, flags=%b lenerr=%b (len=%d)\n",
I have set it up with my SLiRP patch, and I had it pinging away at
10.0.2.2 for 5 hours, 100% success, and I had no issues TELNETTing
into the VM..I think that BSD see's the crc32 on the end and treats
all inbound packets as bad, dropping them all.. so I just quickly
sidestepped the error check.. I would imagine this would work with
SIMH's libpcap support so you can now get your virtual 11/780 onto the
Internet, and party like it's 1986!
For any windows users out there, I'll package up 4.3 BSD & the
Wisconsin version up onto sourceforge...
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=204974&package_id=245…
>
>H.J. Thomassen scripsit:
>
>> In August 2008 a thread was started by 'zmkm' where he asked (among
>> other things) for a "unix assembler manual" by DMR. I could post a
>> scan on line if somebody is still interested. It's a 12 page text and
>> the CPU involved is -of course- DEC PDP-11.
>
>Go for it, I'd say. Many will be interested, and no one is likely to sue.
At http://wwwlehre.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/index.html
you'll find the V6 assembler manual.
Enjoy,
Wolfgang
Hi all,
I just discovered this list & decided to join.
In August 2008 a thread was started by 'zmkm' where
he asked (among other things) for a "unix assembler
manual" by DMR. I could post a scan on line if
somebody is still interested. It's a 12 page text
and the CPU involved is -of course- DEC PDP-11.
Plse let me know.
Regards
--
Hendrik-Jan Thomassen <hjt(a)ATComputing.nl>
Wow I'm surprised a few hours googleing about and I got it running....
I found this 'idle' emulator ("Incomplete Draft of a Lisa Emulator"
http://sourceforge.net/projects/idle-lisa-emu ), which can infact run
Xenix! It also says it can run the uniplus SYSV (so says the
readme)..
Searching around I found the following site:
http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/12/xenix-blast-from-past-looking-back-at.…
which has Xenix 3.0 disk images in the DART format... which as luck
would have it idle cannot mount. However I found another lisa
emulator, lisaem ( http://www.sunder.net/ ) which has a tool to
convert the disks from DART to DC42 (disk copy 4.2).
So it was a simple matter of converting the disks
lisafsh-tool.exe "Xenix OS Boot Floppy"
quit
... etc etc...
Then firing up idle, setting the CPU to max speed, and booting up...
whenver I was going to answer a question I toggled it back to 5Mhz..
otherwise it would take FOREVER to boot... lol like the 'good old
days'.
Once the boot floppy had formatted the 5mb hard disk image, and
transfered on reboot I had to tell the bootloader to boot from the
profile disk..
pf(0,0)xenix
And away it went. After installing the OS & the C compiler I'm left
with 23 blocks free!.. which I guess for a 5mb disk, is pretty cool..
Anyways there are assorted Xenix PDF's which can be found here
http://www.tenox.tc/docs/
Namely these two for Apple Lisa Xenix..
http://www.tenox.tc/docs/apple_lisa_xenix_programmers_guide.pdfhttp://www.tenox.tc/docs/apple_lisa_xenix_programmers_reference.pdf
It's amazing that lisa emulators were sort of capable of running Lisa
Office System, now they can run the old unix stuff... it's still
impressive.
Hello from Italy!
I'm interested in Xenix copyright. Do someone of you know who exactly
owns Xenix? According to Wikipedia, Microsoft gave everything to SCO,
but did they gave also the copyright for the non-x86 versions?
I'm asking this because I'm interested in "saving" Xenix from fading
into the digital night. If everything belongs to SCO, then maybe an
"binary only, non-commercial hobbyst license" could *eventually* be
released, at least for older or non-x86 products
Best regards,
Lorenzo
PS: First mailing list post ever. I'm definitely a newbie, here :)
Yeah that's the extent of it. trust me I was shocked when I tried to
dd a Xenix install, and Qemu booted it right up. But without a C
compiler it's useless. I should add that the TCP/IP supported like 3
NIC's... so even *if* you could find it..... it'd be limited. You can
get the disk to work though.... But not under Qemu, Virtual PC and
VMWare can use it.
The 'issue' is that simply Xenix's method of detecting disk density
doesn't work under any emulator because while it's trying the wrong
thing it will 'work' when it shouldnt...
if you are trying to load a 3 1/5" high density disk, the device is
2/60
Low density is
2/36
so change the device for fd0 to be either.... or even symlink it.
For what it's worth, running it under Virtual PC is fast, however the
console is kind of screwed up.. Xenix uses a nonstandard screen mode
(well for virtual pc's bios that is).
I used to have Microsoft Word for Xenix... in the box and everything.
I'll be dammed if I know where it is. I wish I had managed to keep the
license cards.... :|
And no, outside of a picture from an ad talking about the PDP-11
version of Xenix, and one anicdote in USENET saying that any issues
they had were traced back to Microsoft additions to the system...
there is no trace of it.
But then who knows, maybe someone will post back with something.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Lorenzo Gatti <gattilorenz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I know they won't release anything, but asking is never a bad thing.
> I saw the lisa and tandy versions, thank you. What I'm searching is
> the PDP-11 one,
> and I doubt I will find it easily. Do any of you have it?
> BTW, even the x86 version is not working well in emulators.
> Well, at least you cannot install it, but if you have a dd image of a
> working xenix system, this will boot fine in bochs/qemu.
> But you won't be able to use disks (at least images, never tried the
> real disks) to install new software, lol.
> So it's basically a closed system, if you don't connect it to another
> xenix (virtual?) machine via virtual serial port.
>
> 2009/2/10 Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>:
>> I doubt SCO/Microsoft will release anything.. but then you never know.
>> Do you have Xenix for the PDP-11? I've seen the lisa & Tandy 68000
>> floating around, but both used some custom MMU so that cut out
>> emulators... lol I haven't even bothered asking for source, as I
>> figured these v6/v7 things are basically lost in the mists of time...
>> but then there is v6/v7 for the Pdp-11/Interdata 32b & the recent port
>> of v7 to the i386 http://nordier.com/v7x86/index.html
>
Trying to understand some users and groups that continue to exist on BSD
systems.
Can someone please point me to references or share examples of historical
and/or recent uses of the following users and groups?
Also any clarifications of my understandings below would be appreciated.
(My context is BSD. I know some of these may have different old and
existing uses on other systems.)
daemon user
I see /var/msgs on NetBSD is owned by daemon. msgs will abort if doing -c
(cleanup) if not root or daemon user. I guess that is historic. I don't
see any daemon user usage.
operator user
I understand that historically, the operator user had logins
for those doing disk backups (via its login group privileges).
I understand the operator group, just wondering if any recent uses of
operator user.
bin user
Don't know what uses it.
daemon group
I understand that historically, these are for processes needing less
privileges than the wheel group. Also historically, programs using
/var/spool directories were setgid daemon. Anything common other than
LPD/LPR still use the daemon group?
sys group
I understand that historically, the sys group was used for access to the
kernel (/sys?) sources. (I don't know if that was just read or was for
writing too.) Anyone still use "sys" group? (I guess this is like wsrc
which sometimes I manually setup and use for writing to src directories.)
bin group
I understand that historically, used as the group for system binaries, but
commonly the wheel group is used instead. Some third-party software, like
OpenOffice.org, install files owned by the bin group.
staff group
How would this differ from wheel or operators?
Any recent systems actually have default use of this?
guest group
Any recent systems actually have default use of this?
nobody group versus nogroup group
What is the significance of having both of these groups?
Thanks!
My knowledge comes from my early days at Sun in 84-85 as a rock-n-roll roadie
turned into a UNIX sysadmin. It was passed to me as I was learning how to
take care of trade show Sun Workstations. So take it with a grain of salt.
> daemon user
daemon was for daemon processes that ran in the background but did not want to
run as root. I believe it was used by inetd when it spawned a process but an
not sure. It was also used by sendmail when it gave up its SUID root privileges.
> operator user
operator was a normal user that had privilege to read the raw file systems
through group membership. Sysadmins who did backups would also be a member of
this group. The group I recall in the early days was "kmem" although now
there is a separate group "disk".
> bin user
A user to go with group bin. Typically would be the "proper" owner of all the
binaries and libraries on a system. It has lingered on for far to long
because, IMHO, the vendors had no clue as to why everything was owned by bin
and just kept it that way since "thats the way it's always been".
> bin group
I was told that group bin came from UCB to allow semi-trusted staff to replace
binaries in the file system without giving them the root password.
> staff group
My recollection is that staff was for group read/write permissions for home
directories, separate from group wheel which granted extra privileges
> nobody group versus nogroup group
The nobody group was a group to go with the nobody user introduced with NFS.
nogroup may have been someone's attempt to make the name more obvious, or it
may have been for non-privileged account. But the second case weakens the
protection of a non-privileged account
I was poking around an HP UX system at work today, and noticed a
command I've never noticed before ... /usr/bin/bs.
I'm sure it's been there for a long time, even though I've been an
HPUX admin for more than a decade, sometimes I'm just blind ... but
anyway ....
I tried to search on google ... it looks like only HPUX, AIX, and
Maybe AU/X has it. Seems to be some kind of pseudo BASIC like
interpreter.
Anyone ever use it for anything? Has anyone even noticed it before?
I'll have to boot my Crimson to see if IRIX has it.
- Derrik
Derrik Walker v2.0, RHCE
lorddoomicus(a)mac.com
http://www.doomd.net
"There's nothing nice about Steve Jobs and there's nothing evil about
Bill Gates."
-- Chuck Peddle, MOS 6502 Chip Designer
