All, looks like I will be attending the Usenix technical conference in
San Diego in June this year, to present a paper on restoring some of the
early Unix artifacts. If anybody else is attending the conference, or is
in town, I would very much like to catch up.
P.S Unix turns 40 in mid-2009 as well. Happy birthday Unix!
Cheers,
Warren
Hi. Most of those files would seem to be the generic XDR and RPC code
that Sun released for general use.
The three nfs/* files make me curious though, since Sun would license
their implementation, but not give it away.
It may be that the UWisc dist actually used real Sun code, in which
case anyone using it would have needed a SunOS license also.
Ah, those were the days. I remember that the early versions of SunOS 4.1.x
had both RFS and NFS in them. The original System V Release 4 did too,
as did early versions of Solaris. Sometime around Solaris 5.3 or so Sun
wised up that no-one was using or cared about RFS and they pulled it
out of Solaris. :-)
Arnold
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 07:00:55 -0400
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Uwisc4.3 question...
> From: Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>
> To: Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com>, tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by f7.net id n2OB0ta22275
>
> Yeah there is certainly sun code... for example here's the copyright
> bit in a file:
>
> /*
> * xdr.c, Generic XDR routines implementation.
> *
> * Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> *
> * These are the "generic" xdr routines used to serialize and de-serialize
> * most common data items. See xdr.h for more info on the interface to
> * xdr.
> */
>
> % egrep -ril 'sun microsystems' *
> h/des.h
> h/dnlc.h
> nfs/nfs_server.c
> nfs/nfs_vfsops.c
> nfs/nfs_vnodeops.c
> rpc/auth.h
> rpc/authunix_prot.c
> rpc/auth_kern.c
> rpc/auth_none.c
> rpc/auth_unix.c
> rpc/auth_unix.h
> rpc/clnt.h
> rpc/clnt_kudp.c
> rpc/clnt_perror.c
> rpc/clnt_raw.c
> rpc/clnt_simple.c
> rpc/clnt_tcp.c
> rpc/clnt_udp.c
> rpc/kudp_fastsend.c
> rpc/pmap_clnt.c
> rpc/pmap_clnt.h
> rpc/pmap_getmaps.c
> rpc/pmap_getport.c
> rpc/pmap_prot.c
> rpc/pmap_prot.h
> rpc/pmap_rmt.c
> rpc/rpc.h
> rpc/rpc_msg.h
> rpc/rpc_prot.c
> rpc/subr_kudp.c
> rpc/svc.c
> rpc/svc.h
> rpc/svc_auth.c
> rpc/svc_auth.h
> rpc/svc_auth_unix.c
> rpc/svc_kudp.c
> rpc/svc_raw.c
> rpc/svc_simple.c
> rpc/svc_tcp.c
> rpc/svc_udp.c
> rpc/xdr.c
> rpc/xdr.h
> rpc/xdr_array.c
> rpc/xdr_float.c
> rpc/xdr_mbuf.c
> rpc/xdr_mem.c
> rpc/xdr_rec.c
> rpc/xdr_reference.c
> rpc/xdr_stdio.c
> sys/heap_kmem.c
> sys/vfs_dnlc.c
> ufs/quota.c
> ufs/quota_syscalls.c
> ufs/quota_ufs.c
> ufs/ufs_dir.c
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:14 AM, Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
> >> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:53:07 -0400
> >> From: Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>
> >> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> >> Subject: [TUHS] Uwisc4.3 question...
> >>
> >> I went ahead and downloaded this [
> >> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/ ],
> >> made up some tape images and installed it on SIMH... Â And what I found
> >> is that as far as I can tell there is *NO* information about this
> >> thing..
> >>
> >> All I can find is that it includes the vfs layer from SunOS and it's
> >> NFS... Â It looks like beta software from the root user being "The Not
> >> Ready for Prime Time Super User".
> >
> > Does the code actually say "Sun Microsystems"? Â If not, then this might have
> > been the VFS and NFS stuff that got folded back into BSD Reno.
> >
> > I think there were other schools that ran this. At the same time
> > as this entry (1989) I was a sysadmin in the computing center
> > of Emory University and we were running Mt. Xinu's mixture of
> > 4.3 BSD with NFS from Sun, and then later their commercial Unix
> > on Vax 11/780s, and starting to move to Sparcs running SunOS 4.0.
> One of the uni's I went to made that transition in the mid 90's.. At
> that time I didn't realize how many 'upgrades' they had made to Ultrix
> to make it... usable. Although I don't think I miss archie/veronica
> but the simplicity of pine/lynx is kind of there.. oh sure they still
> run on 'modern' things but it isn't the same really.
> >
> > The comp. center preferred having a vendor with whom there could be
> > a support contract - IIRC then otherwise we probably would have
> > been running this too.
> >
> > Ah, those were the days, when men were real men, and computers
> > were vaxen. :-)
> >
> >> FWIW here is the UUCP entry I found...
> >> ------
> >> #N Â Â eedsp
> >> #S Â Â Vax 11/780; 4.3+NFS Wisconsin Unix
> >> #O Â Â School of Electrical Engineering
> >> #C Â Â Deborah J. Jackson
> >> #E Â Â gt-eedsp!deb
> >> #T Â Â +1 404 894 3058
> >> #P Â Â School of EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA, 30332
> >> #L Â Â 84 23 43 W / 33 46 30 N
> >> #W Â Â eedsp!deb (Deb Jackson); Wed Jul 19 11:35:13 EDT 1989
> >> ------
> >
> > I knew Deb Jackson and worked with her a little when we were both at GT
> > (I was in Information and Computer Science, not EE) and then a lot when
> > I suggested that the start-up company I was at hire her (which they
> > did). I've not seen her in around 18 years, nor do I know where she is
> > now, although presumably she's still in Atlanta somewhere.
> >
> > Arnold
> >
>
> It's funny the weird things that get left around the internet... and
> the host file from that tape image is MASSIVE.. lol and I thought
> having a DNS zone with that many enteries was crazy... I did manage
> to hack the networking for it to work... It's not elegant, but
> commenting out the error checking in if_de's derecv procedure seems to
> work... I could ping around for the last 5 hours, and telnet into it.
> I'll have to build some package with simh to run it on windows...
>
I went ahead and downloaded this [
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/ ],
made up some tape images and installed it on SIMH... And what I found
is that as far as I can tell there is *NO* information about this
thing..
All I can find is that it includes the vfs layer from SunOS and it's
NFS... It looks like beta software from the root user being "The Not
Ready for Prime Time Super User".
There is also a tadl user, Tad Lebeck which I think is from "Storage
Confrence"..
Anyways it seems absent from the UNIX tree, and just about anywhere
from google's search of usenet, other then a single node running this
back in the UUCP days..
So is this a unique build of 4.3, is it it's own thing? Should it be
added to the unix tree? Did it get rolled back into RENO?
It does appear to be dead end, but I haven't combed that much thru it..
FWIW here is the UUCP entry I found...
------
#N eedsp
#S Vax 11/780; 4.3+NFS Wisconsin Unix
#O School of Electrical Engineering
#C Deborah J. Jackson
#E gt-eedsp!deb
#T +1 404 894 3058
#P School of EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA, 30332
#L 84 23 43 W / 33 46 30 N
#W eedsp!deb (Deb Jackson); Wed Jul 19 11:35:13 EDT 1989
------
And for the heck of it, a bootup log..
------
loading ra(0,0)boot
Boot
: ra(0,0)vmunix
290188+89696+102928 start 0x12f8
4.3 BSD UNIX #3: Mon Dec 29 11:54:56 CST 1986
tadl@brie:/usr/src/bsd/4.3/sys/GENERIC
real mem = 8388608
SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 134
avail mem = 7136256
using 134 buffers containing 524288 bytes of memory
mcr0 at tr1
mcr1 at tr2
uba0 at tr3
hk0 at uba0 csr 177440 vec 210, ipl 15
rk0 at hk0 slave 0
rk1 at hk0 slave 1
rk2 at hk0 slave 2
rk3 at hk0 slave 3
uda0 at uba0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15
ra0 at uda0 slave 0
zs0 at uba0 csr 172520 vec 224, ipl 15
ts0 at zs0 slave 0
dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15
dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 vec 310, ipl 15
dz2 at uba0 csr 160120 vec 320, ipl 15
dz3 at uba0 csr 160130 vec 330, ipl 15
Changing root device to ra0a
Automatic reboot in progress...
Sat Mar 21 16:45:41 PST 1987
/dev/ra0a: 355 files, 5885 used, 1544 free (8 frags, 192 blocks, 0.1% fragmion)
/dev/rra0g: 12289 files, 65182 used, 180043 free (275 frags, 22471
blocks,fragmentation)
/dev/rra0h: 2 files, 9 used, 138575 free (15 frags, 17320 blocks, 0.0% fragtion)
Sat Mar 21 16:45:49 PST 1987
/dev/ra0a mounted on /
/dev/ra0g mounted on /usr
/dev/ra0h mounted on /mnt
starting rpc daemons: portmap rpcd.
starting system logger
starting local deamons: routed sendmail biod.
preserving editor files
clearing /tmp
standard daemons: update cron.
starting network daemons: inetd printer.
Sat Mar 21 16:45:54 PST 1987
Wisconsin UNIX (myname console)
4.3+NFS > V.*
login: root
Last login: Sat Mar 21 16:44:51 on console
4.3 BSD UNIX #3: Mon Dec 29 11:54:56 CST 1986
You have mail.
Don't login as root, use su
myname#
> Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:53:07 -0400
> From: Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>
> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [TUHS] Uwisc4.3 question...
>
> I went ahead and downloaded this [
> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/4BSD/Distributions/thirdparty/UWisc4.3/ ],
> made up some tape images and installed it on SIMH... And what I found
> is that as far as I can tell there is *NO* information about this
> thing..
>
> All I can find is that it includes the vfs layer from SunOS and it's
> NFS... It looks like beta software from the root user being "The Not
> Ready for Prime Time Super User".
Does the code actually say "Sun Microsystems"? If not, then this might have
been the VFS and NFS stuff that got folded back into BSD Reno.
I think there were other schools that ran this. At the same time
as this entry (1989) I was a sysadmin in the computing center
of Emory University and we were running Mt. Xinu's mixture of
4.3 BSD with NFS from Sun, and then later their commercial Unix
on Vax 11/780s, and starting to move to Sparcs running SunOS 4.0.
The comp. center preferred having a vendor with whom there could be
a support contract - IIRC then otherwise we probably would have
been running this too.
Ah, those were the days, when men were real men, and computers
were vaxen. :-)
> FWIW here is the UUCP entry I found...
> ------
> #N eedsp
> #S Vax 11/780; 4.3+NFS Wisconsin Unix
> #O School of Electrical Engineering
> #C Deborah J. Jackson
> #E gt-eedsp!deb
> #T +1 404 894 3058
> #P School of EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA, 30332
> #L 84 23 43 W / 33 46 30 N
> #W eedsp!deb (Deb Jackson); Wed Jul 19 11:35:13 EDT 1989
> ------
I knew Deb Jackson and worked with her a little when we were both at GT
(I was in Information and Computer Science, not EE) and then a lot when
I suggested that the start-up company I was at hire her (which they
did). I've not seen her in around 18 years, nor do I know where she is
now, although presumably she's still in Atlanta somewhere.
Arnold
if anyone is interested, I noticed that if you remove the error
checking form the recv portion of the if_de driver it seems to work
for 4.3 BSD & variants... As far as I know there is no if_de for 4.2
BSD... But then if there were you would still have it's
incompatibility problems...
Anyways, here is a diff from 4.3 BSD
*** if_de-orig.c Mon Mar 24 04:05:10 1986
--- if_de.c Mon Mar 24 04:06:09 1986
***************
*** 457,466 ****
len = (rp->r_lenerr&RERR_MLEN) - sizeof (struct ether_header)
- 4; /* don't forget checksum! */
/* check for errors */
! if ((rp->r_flags & (RFLG_ERRS|RFLG_FRAM|RFLG_OFLO|RFLG_CRC)) ||
(rp->r_flags&(RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP)) != (RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP) ||
(rp->r_lenerr & (RERR_BUFL|RERR_UBTO|RERR_NCHN)) ||
len < ETHERMIN || len > ETHERMTU) {
ds->ds_if.if_ierrors++;
if (dedebug)
printf("de%d: ierror, flags=%b lenerr=%b (len=%d)\n",
--- 457,468 ----
len = (rp->r_lenerr&RERR_MLEN) - sizeof (struct ether_header)
- 4; /* don't forget checksum! */
/* check for errors */
! /*** if ((rp->r_flags & (RFLG_ERRS|RFLG_FRAM|RFLG_OFLO|RFLG_CRC)) ||
(rp->r_flags&(RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP)) != (RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP) ||
(rp->r_lenerr & (RERR_BUFL|RERR_UBTO|RERR_NCHN)) ||
len < ETHERMIN || len > ETHERMTU) {
+ ***/
+ if(1==5){
ds->ds_if.if_ierrors++;
if (dedebug)
printf("de%d: ierror, flags=%b lenerr=%b (len=%d)\n",
I have set it up with my SLiRP patch, and I had it pinging away at
10.0.2.2 for 5 hours, 100% success, and I had no issues TELNETTing
into the VM..I think that BSD see's the crc32 on the end and treats
all inbound packets as bad, dropping them all.. so I just quickly
sidestepped the error check.. I would imagine this would work with
SIMH's libpcap support so you can now get your virtual 11/780 onto the
Internet, and party like it's 1986!
For any windows users out there, I'll package up 4.3 BSD & the
Wisconsin version up onto sourceforge...
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=204974&package_id=245…
>
>H.J. Thomassen scripsit:
>
>> In August 2008 a thread was started by 'zmkm' where he asked (among
>> other things) for a "unix assembler manual" by DMR. I could post a
>> scan on line if somebody is still interested. It's a 12 page text and
>> the CPU involved is -of course- DEC PDP-11.
>
>Go for it, I'd say. Many will be interested, and no one is likely to sue.
At http://wwwlehre.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/index.html
you'll find the V6 assembler manual.
Enjoy,
Wolfgang
Hi all,
I just discovered this list & decided to join.
In August 2008 a thread was started by 'zmkm' where
he asked (among other things) for a "unix assembler
manual" by DMR. I could post a scan on line if
somebody is still interested. It's a 12 page text
and the CPU involved is -of course- DEC PDP-11.
Plse let me know.
Regards
--
Hendrik-Jan Thomassen <hjt(a)ATComputing.nl>
Wow I'm surprised a few hours googleing about and I got it running....
I found this 'idle' emulator ("Incomplete Draft of a Lisa Emulator"
http://sourceforge.net/projects/idle-lisa-emu ), which can infact run
Xenix! It also says it can run the uniplus SYSV (so says the
readme)..
Searching around I found the following site:
http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/12/xenix-blast-from-past-looking-back-at.…
which has Xenix 3.0 disk images in the DART format... which as luck
would have it idle cannot mount. However I found another lisa
emulator, lisaem ( http://www.sunder.net/ ) which has a tool to
convert the disks from DART to DC42 (disk copy 4.2).
So it was a simple matter of converting the disks
lisafsh-tool.exe "Xenix OS Boot Floppy"
quit
... etc etc...
Then firing up idle, setting the CPU to max speed, and booting up...
whenver I was going to answer a question I toggled it back to 5Mhz..
otherwise it would take FOREVER to boot... lol like the 'good old
days'.
Once the boot floppy had formatted the 5mb hard disk image, and
transfered on reboot I had to tell the bootloader to boot from the
profile disk..
pf(0,0)xenix
And away it went. After installing the OS & the C compiler I'm left
with 23 blocks free!.. which I guess for a 5mb disk, is pretty cool..
Anyways there are assorted Xenix PDF's which can be found here
http://www.tenox.tc/docs/
Namely these two for Apple Lisa Xenix..
http://www.tenox.tc/docs/apple_lisa_xenix_programmers_guide.pdfhttp://www.tenox.tc/docs/apple_lisa_xenix_programmers_reference.pdf
It's amazing that lisa emulators were sort of capable of running Lisa
Office System, now they can run the old unix stuff... it's still
impressive.
Hello from Italy!
I'm interested in Xenix copyright. Do someone of you know who exactly
owns Xenix? According to Wikipedia, Microsoft gave everything to SCO,
but did they gave also the copyright for the non-x86 versions?
I'm asking this because I'm interested in "saving" Xenix from fading
into the digital night. If everything belongs to SCO, then maybe an
"binary only, non-commercial hobbyst license" could *eventually* be
released, at least for older or non-x86 products
Best regards,
Lorenzo
PS: First mailing list post ever. I'm definitely a newbie, here :)
Yeah that's the extent of it. trust me I was shocked when I tried to
dd a Xenix install, and Qemu booted it right up. But without a C
compiler it's useless. I should add that the TCP/IP supported like 3
NIC's... so even *if* you could find it..... it'd be limited. You can
get the disk to work though.... But not under Qemu, Virtual PC and
VMWare can use it.
The 'issue' is that simply Xenix's method of detecting disk density
doesn't work under any emulator because while it's trying the wrong
thing it will 'work' when it shouldnt...
if you are trying to load a 3 1/5" high density disk, the device is
2/60
Low density is
2/36
so change the device for fd0 to be either.... or even symlink it.
For what it's worth, running it under Virtual PC is fast, however the
console is kind of screwed up.. Xenix uses a nonstandard screen mode
(well for virtual pc's bios that is).
I used to have Microsoft Word for Xenix... in the box and everything.
I'll be dammed if I know where it is. I wish I had managed to keep the
license cards.... :|
And no, outside of a picture from an ad talking about the PDP-11
version of Xenix, and one anicdote in USENET saying that any issues
they had were traced back to Microsoft additions to the system...
there is no trace of it.
But then who knows, maybe someone will post back with something.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Lorenzo Gatti <gattilorenz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I know they won't release anything, but asking is never a bad thing.
> I saw the lisa and tandy versions, thank you. What I'm searching is
> the PDP-11 one,
> and I doubt I will find it easily. Do any of you have it?
> BTW, even the x86 version is not working well in emulators.
> Well, at least you cannot install it, but if you have a dd image of a
> working xenix system, this will boot fine in bochs/qemu.
> But you won't be able to use disks (at least images, never tried the
> real disks) to install new software, lol.
> So it's basically a closed system, if you don't connect it to another
> xenix (virtual?) machine via virtual serial port.
>
> 2009/2/10 Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com>:
>> I doubt SCO/Microsoft will release anything.. but then you never know.
>> Do you have Xenix for the PDP-11? I've seen the lisa & Tandy 68000
>> floating around, but both used some custom MMU so that cut out
>> emulators... lol I haven't even bothered asking for source, as I
>> figured these v6/v7 things are basically lost in the mists of time...
>> but then there is v6/v7 for the Pdp-11/Interdata 32b & the recent port
>> of v7 to the i386 http://nordier.com/v7x86/index.html
>
