> > There is close zero chance I'll ever use this stuff,
> > unless I retire
> > to teaching in which case I'll make people write
> > PDP-11 assembler.
>
> That seems a tad archaic. MIPS might be a better
> choice; it's 32-bit
> with 32 registers, and there are excellent simulators for
> it.
At my university there's a grad class that's ostensibly on reverse
engineering,but you can't really disassemble anything if you don't
learn assembler, so you learn it. The downside, I guess, is that
I've read a decent amount of x86 assembler, but written very little.
I don't think it's a bad way to learn, but of course, Larry was
talking about teaching a nice instruction set, and you
kind of lose that. But you get Windows DLL function calling
back as a booby prize.
John Finigan
Hi everyone, this is my first message, after being on the mailing list
for the best part of three years :)
I've a couple of [hopefully] simple questions about running Seventh
Edition UNIX on SIMH.
The first question is: how can I get the C compiler to work properly?
When I've tried to compile programs, I get 'cannot create temp' - here's
a full list of what's on the screen:
@boot
New Boot, known devices are hp ht rk rl rp tm vt
: rl(0,0)rl2unix
mem = 177856
# Thu Sep 22 07:50:47 EDT 1988
login: mark
$ ed
a
main() {
printf(" Hello.\n");
return; }
.
w a.c
46
q
$ cc a.c
cc: cannot create temp
$
Also, how can I get the backspace key to erase? I've done /stty erase
'^H'/ but I have to actually type <CTRL>+H to erase.
The other thing I want to ask about is: can I compile SIMH on DOS, so it
doesn't display any messages except those of the simulated software, and
so it ignores ^E?
I'm asking because I want v7 on an ancient laptop I've got lying around
- a 486 with 24M of core. v7x86 won't work on it, and I don't really
fancy putting Slack 3 back on it - if I'm going to go outdated, I might
as well go the whole hog and go /really/ outdated.
Though I might consider 2.11BSD, if that'll work on a machine with 24M
of core, and if the escapes will display properly, because
[24;1H[?1h=[;H[2J
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~
~[H
is a little bit difficult to work with when I'm wanting to edit source code.
Thanks very much. Mark Tuson.
I see The Unix Tree has browsable "4.1c BSD". Where can I download this
(so I don't have to browse)?
Also where can I find downloads for 4.1BSD and 4.1aBSD and 4.1cBSD and
anything after 2BSD but before 2.79BSD?
Thanks
Jeremy C. Reed
Hello.
I have a working Data General Aviion AV5500.
I'm searching for DG/UX tape images, documents and software for it,
specially
development kits for C.
Anybody has a machine like this or some data?
Thanks
Andrea
I managed to get 2.11 installed on SIMH, and hacked the de driver to work
(pretty much the same thing I did for 4.2 BSD on the 11/780) and now I've
gotten it networking.
I'll admit I'm not all that swift on the pdp-11, but I get the impression
that the maximum exe size is 128kb with 64kb of instructions, and 64kb of
data? Isn't there something that can be done with overlays or some other
linker thing to act like an 8086/80286 with the large memory model (ie
multiple segments...?)
I've been trying to build ircII-4.4 and I can't figure out how to link
something that big... I've tried the -Z and -O flags to ld to no avail.
Clearly I'm doing either something wrong, or impossible or stupid.
FWIW, here is the size of the same program on the VAX
myname# ls -l irc-4.4
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 413696 Jun 8 08:46 irc-4.4*
myname# size irc-4.4
text data bss dec hex
293888 67584 20784 382256 5d530
I have a feeling that 300kb of text, along with 67kb of data is just too
much...?
Any pointers would be appreciated!
Jason
Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
and my failing trials with it..
Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
Just a couple of things :
1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
boot prompt back again.
Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3 which should also work
according to the docs (all other params are default).
Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
command. Invalid boot command line".
According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
Anyone got any advice about that?
2. Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
Thanks,
D'
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bruce Jones <probes(a)communication.ucsd.edu>
Date: Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 2:41 PM
Subject: [Sysadmin-L] Historical materials
To: sysadmin-L(a)ucsd.edu
Anyone want the complete set for BSD/386 v 1.0?
Includes manual, CDR, and 3.3" diskettes.
Just the thing to add to your library of obsolete but historically
significant software.
Bruce Jones
Department of Communication
(858) 534-0417/4410 Â Â Â Â Â Â FAX (858) 534-7315
 -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=-
--
  carl lowenstein     marine physical lab   u.c. san diego
                         clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu
The 'problem' is with the de driver...Basically SIMH flags something wrong
with all incoming packets, and the driver thinks they are all corrupt...
in the procedure derecv
if ((rp->r_flags &
(RFLG_ERRS|RFLG_FRAM|RFLG_OFLO|RFLG_CRC))||
(rp->r_flags&(RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP)) !=
(RFLG_STP|RFLG_ENP) ||
(rp->r_lenerr & (RERR_BUFL|RERR_UBTO|RERR_NCHN)) ||
len < ETHERMIN || len > ETHERMTU) {
something here is being passed wrong.. I've just changed the statement to
if(1==2) to keep the logic flow...
Anyways the same issue cropped up with 4.2 BSD & the VAX 11/780
On my pdp-11 the ini I'm using is:
set cpu 11/94 4M
set cpu cis
set cpu idle
set xu ena
att xu slirp
;attach tm0 211bsd.tap
attach tm0 ircii-4.4.source.tap
set rp0 rp06
attach rp0 auto.dsk
set rq dis
set rk dis
set rl dis
set hk dis
set rx dis
set tq dis
set dz lines=8
att dz 1000
boot rp0
I'm also using a version of SIMH that I've replaced the libpcap with SLiRP
from Qemu.. It's basically a user mode ip stack to do NAT. The advantage is
that they always have the same ip address, and it doesn't
require escalated privileges to run.
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)softjar.se> wrote:
> Jason Stevens <neozeed(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I managed to get 2.11 installed on SIMH, and hacked the de driver to work
>> (pretty much the same thing I did for 4.2 BSD on the 11/780) and now I've
>> gotten it networking.
>>
>
> Huh? What did you hack with the qe driver? Was that in 2.11BSD? I didn't
> know there was any problems with it in the first place.
>
> Or is there some problem in simh that you fixed?
>
> I'll admit I'm not all that swift on the pdp-11, but I get the impression
>>
>> that the maximum exe size is 128kb with 64kb of instructions, and 64kb of
>> data? Isn't there something that can be done with overlays or some other
>> linker thing to act like an 8086/80286 with the large memory model (ie
>> multiple segments...?)
>>
>
> Yes and no. In principle, the maximum size of a program is 64K instruction
> and 64K data. That's as much as is directly addressable. With overloays you
> can extend that somewhat, but there are limitations and restrictions.
>
>
> I've been trying to build ircII-4.4 and I can't figure out how to link
>> something that big... I've tried the -Z and -O flags to ld to no avail.
>>
>> Clearly I'm doing either something wrong, or impossible or stupid.
>>
>> FWIW, here is the size of the same program on the VAX
>>
>> myname# ls -l irc-4.4
>> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 413696 Jun 8 08:46 irc-4.4*
>> myname# size irc-4.4
>> text data bss dec hex
>> 293888 67584 20784 382256 5d530
>>
>> I have a feeling that 300kb of text, along with 67kb of data is just too
>> much...?
>>
>> Any pointers would be appreciated!
>>
>
> You'll need to trim some fat off.
>
> Points to remember:
> 64K data is the max. There is no way to use overlays to get more data
> space. Overlays can only extend the instruction space.
> Overlays and the main program share the same address space. That is, the
> size of the main code and the largest overlay segment together must not
> exceed 64K. So, overlays is just a way to move parts of the program in and
> out of your basic 64K address space.
> When you link a program, you'll be able to see the sizes of all segments as
> well as the main program.
>
> As an example, this is how tcsh looks like:
>
> Test:/# size /bin/tcsh
>
> text data bss dec hex
> 48960 14844 11986 75790 1280e total text: 140864
> overlays: 15424,16000,14144,14016,16256,16064
>
> Notice how text+max(sizeof overlays) is less than 64K.
>
> All that said, you can easily find IRC clients who are much smaller than
> that... :-)
>
> Johnny
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
Hi,friend
I find a good website which is www.dybers2.com It sells electronic
products. All of them are brand new and original and they all have
cheap price and high quality.The company also deal with the tariff for
us. One of my friends orders an Apple laptop. It only takes a week to
get it.
Let us enjoy the happiness of shopping. %--u
As you might remember from a previous post, I am trying to virtualize
/ emulate an old Data General UNIX system to a VM env'.
This is my progress so far (after a lot of reading, searching and
understanding who is who and what does it all mean) :
1. I've DD'ed an exact copy of the raw system disk as an image on my Linux box.
2. Loaded it up with most virtualization products out there - VMware,
VirtualBox, Xen/KVM/Qemu, Bochs and such.
They all work, ie, bootloader works and getting a DG/UX menu to
choose my proper kernel/system disk.
3. This is where they fail, as they cannot find the system's original
Adaptec PCI SCSI Controller (which is an AIC-7880 chip).
Most VM products only support LSI/BusLogic SCSI, and IDE of course.
As I see it, I have a few things I can do to make it work:
1. write an Adaptec driver for a VM product.
2. write an LSI/BusLogic driver for DG/UX or implement virtio drivers into it.
3. get IDE support working.
1st 2 options, as I understand from software eng' and other
professionals, are very difficult.
The 3rd option is interesting :
On one hand, I have an config file with all of DG/UX's supported
hardware, IDE is simply not there (would love for someone else to have
a look if possible. Just say so and I'll send you the file).
_and_ docs say "Data General has not tested or qualified the use of
IDE devices in AViiON AV 2100 systems".
_BUT_, on the other hand, BIOS seems to have plenty of IDE config
options and also docs say:
"IDE Interface - Disabled/Auto" , "OnBoard IDE Controller - enabled".
" The AV 2100 board set consists of a system board with six PCI
expansion slots, three ISA expansion slots, and several embedded
controller devices (PCI video, SCSI, Network, and IDE).
and "..A SCSI-III AIC-7880 controller for connecting up to seven 8-bit
narrow SCSI devices. You can also connect a mixture of fifteen 8-bit
narrow and 16-bit wide SCSI devices to the controller—maximum of seven
8-bit narrow SCSI devices. PCI-enhanced Integrated Drive Electronics
(IDE) hard disk interface that supports two hard disk drives"
Also " Since the lower bay contains a SCSI CD-ROM drive, only one
other SCSI device can be installed. You can install an IDE device in
the remaining bay. "
And much more. The question is, if I have an exact image of the
primary disk and I did try to load it via an IDE drive (in Qemu/
VirtualBox etc), didn't work out. Like last time, bootloader booted up
and then hang after trying to load the kernel.
Is there something I can try and do as a different config in my image file?
Anything else you can think of?
Please let me know if you need any file sent over.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Adam
