TUHS June 2000

tuhs@tuhs.org

15 participants
43 discussions

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> wrote: > And Tapes 6 and 7 seem to be a complete distribution set of 4.2BSD, > they ought to form a good replacement for the supposedly damaged and > incomplete set in /Distributions/4bsd/4.2BSD. > > [contents skipped, perfectly matches CSRG 4.2BSD dist] Yes, please read them and I'll put them in the archive. I maintain the 4BSD area. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA78621 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:06:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Fri Jun 16 12:04:11 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA78617 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:06:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id MAA46483; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:04:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200006160204.MAA46483(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Bunch of Unix tapes rescued In-Reply-To: <000615210631.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> from Tim Shoppa at "Jun 15, 2000 9: 6:31 pm" To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:04:11 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Tim Shoppa: > On an Expedition to NJ Tuesday, I rescued about 3/4 of a ton of magtapes. > Tape 1: > > AT&T 60462 > Unix System V Release 2.0 > VAX Version 2 for 11/780 and 11/750 > TPName: Root and Selectables Yes please, I have sysVR0 in the archive at the moment. > Tape 2: > AT&T 60463 > Unix System V Release 2.0 > VAX Version 2 for 11/780 and 11/750 > TPName: USR File System Yes please. Don't have it yet! > Tape 3: > UNIX* System III > PDP 11/70,45 - 800 BPI Could be the same as Distributions/usdl/SysIII, but read it anyway! > And Tapes 6 and 7 seem to be a complete distribution set of 4.2BSD, > they ought to form a good replacement for the supposedly damaged and > incomplete set in /Distributions/4bsd/4.2BSD. Again, yes please!!! Thanks Tim. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA79038 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:27:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Fri Jun 16 13:24:51 2000 Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (timaxp.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA79034 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:27:32 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA(a)timaxp.trailing-edge.com) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:24:51 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:24:51 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU Message-Id: <000615232451.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> Subject: Re: Bunch of Unix tapes rescued Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Again, yes please!!! Would it be useful if I also uploaded GIF's or JPG's or TIFF's of scans of the labels on the original tapes? If so, is there any preference for the format of the scan? These are all (as Tommy Smothers would say) "the original virgin" tapes. Tim. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA81018 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:07:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Fri Jun 16 18:04:53 2000 Received: from toulon.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (toulon.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA81014 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:07:42 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (wintermute [134.2.12.56]) by toulon.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8B71067; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:04:55 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12190; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:04:53 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200006160804.KAA12190(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: wintermute.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com Cc: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU In-reply-to: <000615210631.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> (message from Tim Shoppa on Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:06:31 -0400) Subject: Re: Bunch of Unix tapes rescued References: <000615210631.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk WOW. Great. Super !! :-) ------------------ > Delivered-To: leypold(a)lesbains.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:06:31 -0400 > From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> > Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > On an Expedition to NJ Tuesday, I rescued about 3/4 of a ton of magtapes. > Some of these will probably be interesting for the PUPS archive. In particular, > I'm reading through seven of 'em tonight. If someone could explain to > me how "Unix System V Release 2.0" and "Unix System III" work into the > grand scheme of AT&T Unices already in the PUPS archive, and how 2.9.1 BSD > might be different from (or the same as) the 2.9 BSD stuff already in the > archive, I'd forever appreciate it :-). > > The first two tapes are AT&T Unix System V tapes for VAXen: > > Tape 1: > > AT&T 60462 > Unix System V Release 2.0 > VAX Version 2 for 11/780 and 11/750 > TPName: Root and Selectables > > AT&T 60462 > Dwg: j1p077c-3 List:1M1 > TP No: OTP-1P550-01 IS: 2.0V2 > Order: VX501404 Spec:000 Item:1 > BPI 1600 Max Blksize: 05120 Files:0009 > Date:01/13/86 Opr: jlc Drv: tu-2 > > > Tape 2: > AT&T 60463 > Unix System V Release 2.0 > VAX Version 2 for 11/780 and 11/750 > TPName: USR File System > > AT&T 60463 > Dwg: j1p077c-3 List:2m2 > TP No: OTP-1P550-02 IS: 2.0V2 > Order: UX501404 Spec:000 Item:1 > BPI 1600 Max Blksize: 05120 Files:0009 > Date:01/13/86 Opr: jlc Drv: tu-0 > > > The third tape is UNIX System III from AT&T: > > Tape 3: > UNIX* System III > PDP 11/70,45 - 800 BPI > Release Tape #1 > *UNIX is a trademark of Bell Laboratories > > Restricted Rights > Use Duplication or Disclosure is Subject > To Restrictions Stated in your contract with > American Telephone & Telegraph > > The Fourth and Fifth tape are either 2.9BSD or 2.9.1BSD (I > can't tell the difference until I compare these tapes with the > files already in the PUPS archives): > > Tape 4: > > Berkeley UNIX (Rev. 2.9.1) 2.9BSD > Sun Nov 20 14:55:50 PST 1983 > 800 BPI HT/TM boot tape. For tar files > skip the first 7 tape files with > ``mt -t /dev/nrmt0 fsf 7'' > Reel 1 of 2 Tape # > > Tape 5: > Berkeley UNIX (Rev. 2.9.1) 2.9BSD > Sun Nov 20 14:55:50 PST 1983 > 800 BPI Tar of /usr/src > Reel 2 of 2 > > And Tapes 6 and 7 seem to be a complete distribution set of 4.2BSD, > they ought to form a good replacement for the supposedly damaged and > incomplete set in /Distributions/4bsd/4.2BSD. > > Tape 6: > 4.2bsd VAX UNIX System 8/23/83 > 6 files on tape: > 1 (boot stuff) 2 (mini root) > 3 ((root dump) 4 (/sys) 5 (/usr) > 6 (/usr/lib/vfont) > last three are tar; 1600 bpi > > Tape 7: > 4.2bsd VAX UNIX System 8/23/83 > tape 2: 3 files on tape > 1 (/usr/src) > 2 (user contributed software) > 3 (/usr/ingres) > all files are tar; 1600 bpi > > Like I said, there's about 3/4 of a ton of tapes in total, I'm sure there > are some other PUPS-related goodies deeper in the pile... > > -- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA81036 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:10:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Fri Jun 16 18:08:07 2000 Received: from toulon.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (toulon.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA81032 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:10:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (wintermute [134.2.12.56]) by toulon.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBC51067; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:08:08 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12196; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:08:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:08:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200006160808.KAA12196(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: wintermute.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com Cc: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU In-reply-to: <000615232451.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> (message from Tim Shoppa on Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:24:51 -0400) Subject: Re: Bunch of Unix tapes rescued References: <000615232451.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Delivered-To: leypold(a)lesbains.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:24:51 -0400 > From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> > Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > > Again, yes please!!! > > Would it be useful if I also uploaded GIF's or JPG's or TIFF's of scans > of the labels on the original tapes? If so, is there any preference for > the format of the scan? These are all (as Tommy Smothers > would say) "the original virgin" tapes. Well, I'm presently only a client of the archive, so to say, but why not use png (the gif replacement advocated by the FSF). Better not use GIF for all this licensing issues. And as far as I see, png can be shown by -- well -- Netscape, whereas TIFF requires a plugin or an external viewer. Regards - Markus Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA81738 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:24:43 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Fri Jun 16 21:21:56 2000 Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (timaxp.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA81734 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:24:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA(a)timaxp.trailing-edge.com) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 7:21:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 7:21:56 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU Message-Id: <000616072156.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> Subject: Yet Another "where does it fit" question Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk OK, I started sorting through some more piles of tapes, and I found a one more thing that I'm-not-quite-sure-where-it-fits: Two tapes labeled "Vol 1 of 2" and "Vol 2 of 2" and then "2.10.2 SMS Unix". Steven, does this mean you know what's on this and how it's different than the 2.10 and 2.10.1 stuff already in the archive? :-) Terry didn't remember... Also, more goodies that may (or may not) be appropriate to add: * A 4.3BSD-Reno VAX tape dated "1/2/91". I suppose I have to get down on my hands and knees and see how this differs from the version dated "30 Jul 90" currently in Distributions/4bsd/4.3BSD-Reno. This has the original UCB stickers on it. * A set of tar files on a tape claiming to be the "4.4BSD snapshot 4/1/92". Is PUPS/TUHS collecting anything anything this late? Is something like this already in Kirk's archive? Tim. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA81919 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 22:03:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 11 months

Help reviewing PDP-11 model processors

by lars brinkhoff

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to alt.sys.pdp11 as well. Time for the second round of assembler source code review. If the user specifies a PDP-11 model to the assembler (e.g. -m11/45), this code is used to tell the assembler what processor to assemble for. Also, in one case (11/34a), the model enables FP-11 floating-point instructions. Should this be done for 11/34c too? If there are any other models with otherwise optional features installed, I'd like to know. if (strcmp (arg, "03") == 0) /* 11/03 */ return set_cpu_model ("kd11f"); /* KD11-F */ else if (strcmp (arg, "04") == 0) /* 11/04 */ return set_cpu_model ("kd11d"); /* KD11-D */ else if (strcmp (arg, "05") == 0 || /* 11/05 or 11/10 */ strcmp (arg, "10") == 0) return set_cpu_model ("kd11b"); /* KD11-B */ else if (strcmp (arg, "15") == 0 || /* 11/15 or 11/20 */ strcmp (arg, "20") == 0) return set_cpu_model ("ka11"); /* KA11 */ else if (strcmp (arg, "21") == 0) /* 11/21 */ return set_cpu_model ("t11"); /* T11 */ else if (strcmp (arg, "24") == 0) /* 11/24 */ return set_cpu_model ("f11"); /* F11 */ else if (strcmp (arg, "34") == 0) /* 11/34 */ return set_cpu_model ("kd11e"); /* KD11-E */ else if (strcmp (arg, "34a") == 0) /* 11/34a */ return set_cpu_model ("kd11e") && /* KD11-E with FP-11 */ set_option ("fpp"); else if (strcmp (arg, "35") == 0 || /* 11/35 or 11/40 */ strcmp (arg, "40") == 0) return set_cpu_model ("kd11da"); /* KD11-A */ else if (strcmp (arg, "44") == 0) /* 11/44 */ return set_cpu_model ("kd11dz"); /* KD11-Z */ else if (strcmp (arg, "45") == 0 || /* 11/45/50/55/70 */ strcmp (arg, "50") == 0 || strcmp (arg, "55") == 0 || strcmp (arg, "70") == 0) return set_cpu_model ("kb11"); /* KB11 */ else if (strcmp (arg, "60") == 0) /* 11/60 */ return set_cpu_model ("kd11k"); /* KD11-K */ else if (strcmp (arg, "53") == 0 || /* 11/53/73/83/84/93/94 */ strcmp (arg, "73") == 0 || strcmp (arg, "83") == 0 || strcmp (arg, "84") == 0 || strcmp (arg, "93") == 0 || strcmp (arg, "94") == 0) return set_cpu_model ("j11"); /* J11 */ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA78381 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:09:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Fri Jun 16 11:06:31 2000 Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (timaxp.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA78377 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:09:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA(a)timaxp.trailing-edge.com) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU; Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:06:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:06:31 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU Message-Id: <000615210631.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> Subject: Bunch of Unix tapes rescued Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On an Expedition to NJ Tuesday, I rescued about 3/4 of a ton of magtapes. Some of these will probably be interesting for the PUPS archive. In particular, I'm reading through seven of 'em tonight. If someone could explain to me how "Unix System V Release 2.0" and "Unix System III" work into the grand scheme of AT&T Unices already in the PUPS archive, and how 2.9.1 BSD might be different from (or the same as) the 2.9 BSD stuff already in the archive, I'd forever appreciate it :-). The first two tapes are AT&T Unix System V tapes for VAXen: Tape 1: AT&T 60462 Unix System V Release 2.0 VAX Version 2 for 11/780 and 11/750 TPName: Root and Selectables AT&T 60462 Dwg: j1p077c-3 List:1M1 TP No: OTP-1P550-01 IS: 2.0V2 Order: VX501404 Spec:000 Item:1 BPI 1600 Max Blksize: 05120 Files:0009 Date:01/13/86 Opr: jlc Drv: tu-2 Tape 2: AT&T 60463 Unix System V Release 2.0 VAX Version 2 for 11/780 and 11/750 TPName: USR File System AT&T 60463 Dwg: j1p077c-3 List:2m2 TP No: OTP-1P550-02 IS: 2.0V2 Order: UX501404 Spec:000 Item:1 BPI 1600 Max Blksize: 05120 Files:0009 Date:01/13/86 Opr: jlc Drv: tu-0 The third tape is UNIX System III from AT&T: Tape 3: UNIX* System III PDP 11/70,45 - 800 BPI Release Tape #1 *UNIX is a trademark of Bell Laboratories Restricted Rights Use Duplication or Disclosure is Subject To Restrictions Stated in your contract with American Telephone & Telegraph The Fourth and Fifth tape are either 2.9BSD or 2.9.1BSD (I can't tell the difference until I compare these tapes with the files already in the PUPS archives): Tape 4: Berkeley UNIX (Rev. 2.9.1) 2.9BSD Sun Nov 20 14:55:50 PST 1983 800 BPI HT/TM boot tape. For tar files skip the first 7 tape files with ``mt -t /dev/nrmt0 fsf 7'' Reel 1 of 2 Tape # Tape 5: Berkeley UNIX (Rev. 2.9.1) 2.9BSD Sun Nov 20 14:55:50 PST 1983 800 BPI Tar of /usr/src Reel 2 of 2 And Tapes 6 and 7 seem to be a complete distribution set of 4.2BSD, they ought to form a good replacement for the supposedly damaged and incomplete set in /Distributions/4bsd/4.2BSD. Tape 6: 4.2bsd VAX UNIX System 8/23/83 6 files on tape: 1 (boot stuff) 2 (mini root) 3 ((root dump) 4 (/sys) 5 (/usr) 6 (/usr/lib/vfont) last three are tar; 1600 bpi Tape 7: 4.2bsd VAX UNIX System 8/23/83 tape 2: 3 files on tape 1 (/usr/src) 2 (user contributed software) 3 (/usr/ingres) all files are tar; 1600 bpi Like I said, there's about 3/4 of a ton of tapes in total, I'm sure there are some other PUPS-related goodies deeper in the pile... -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA78462 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:34:34 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 11 months

Re: New: PDP-11 Unix Mailing List

by William King

Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA67358 for pups-liszt; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:39:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From lars brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> Wed Jun 14 19:32:07 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA67354 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:39:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id VAA36479 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:36:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from junk.nocrew.org (mail(a)[212.73.17.42]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA66909 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 19:34:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from lars(a)junk.nocrew.org) Received: from lars by junk.nocrew.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au id 1329Wp-0003Na-00; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:32:07 +0200 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Help reviewing processor features From: lars brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> Date: 14 Jun 2000 11:32:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:49:12 -0700" Message-ID: <85itvcbobs.fsf_-_(a)junk.nocrew.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0803 (Gnus v5.8.3) Emacs/20.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk The following is source code taken verbatim from my PDP-11 support code for the GNU assembler. Any help correcting errors would be appreciated. This code tells the assembler what instruction set features to recognize depending on what processor the user wants to assemble for. Individual features can also be enabled, e.g. if a processor option is installed. The instruction set features are: cis Commersial instruction set (optional on all processors?). csm CSM instruction. eis Extended instruction set: MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, and all of limited-eis. fis KEV11 floating-point instructions. fpp FP-11 floating-point instructions. limited-eis Limited extended instruction set: RTT, MARK, SXT, XOR, SOB. mfpt MFPT instruction. multiproc Multiprocessor instructions: TSTSET, WRTLCK. mxps MFPS and MTPS instructions. spl SPLx instructions. ucode Microcode instructions: LDUB, MED, XFC. if (strncmp (buf, "a", 1) == 0) /* KA11 (11/15/20) */ return 1; /* no extensions */ else if (strncmp (buf, "b", 1) == 0) /* KB11 (11/45/50/55/70) */ return set_option ("eis") && set_option ("spl"); else if (strncmp (buf, "da", 2) == 0) /* KD11-A (11/35/40) */ return set_option ("limited-eis"); else if (strncmp (buf, "db", 2) == 0 || /* KD11-B (11/05/10) */ strncmp (buf, "dd", 2) == 0) /* KD11-D (11/04) */ return 1; /* no extensions */ else if (strncmp (buf, "de", 2) == 0) /* KD11-E (11/34) */ return set_option ("eis") && set_option ("mxps"); else if (strncmp (buf, "df", 2) == 0 || /* KD11-F (11/03) */ strncmp (buf, "dh", 2) == 0 || /* KD11-H (11/03) */ strncmp (buf, "dq", 2) == 0) /* KD11-Q (11/03) */ return set_option ("limited-eis") && set_option ("mxps"); else if (strncmp (buf, "dk", 2) == 0) /* KD11-K (11/60) */ return set_option ("eis") && set_option ("mxps") && set_option ("ucode"); else if (strncmp (buf, "dz", 2) == 0) /* KD11-Z (11/44) */ return set_option ("csm") && set_option ("eis") && set_option ("mfpt") && set_option ("mxps") && set_option ("spl"); else if (strncmp (buf, "f", 1) == 0) /* F11 (11/24) */ return set_option ("eis") && set_option ("mfpt") && set_option ("mxps"); else if (strncmp (buf, "j", 1) == 0) /* J11 (11/53/73/83/84/93/94)*/ return set_option ("csm") && set_option ("eis") && set_option ("mfpt") && set_option ("multiproc") && set_option ("mxps") && set_option ("spl"); else if (strncmp (buf, "t", 1) == 0) /* T11 (11/21) */ return set_option ("limited-eis") && set_option ("mxps");

24 years, 11 months

New Unix Heritage List, was Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE

by Warren Toomey

In article by David O'Brien: > I do not mean to be mean, but it seems moving this to some PDP-11 list (I > guess one needs to be created) would be possible. I will create one today or tomorrow: tuhs(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Unix Heritage pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au PDP-11 Unix You will all be subscribed to both lists. To be removed from a list, send e-mail to majordomo(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au with the line unsubscribe pups, or unsubscribe tuhs For those on the digested list (twice weekly), ditto except unsubscribe pups-digest, or unsubscribe tuhs-digest I will announce the new list(s) using them as a vehicle soon. That way, the announcement becomes some test mail :) Until then, tolerate the system-specific e-mail for just a bit longer. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA57976 for pups-liszt; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:57:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Tue Jun 13 08:55:42 2000 Received: from relay.nuxi.com (root(a)nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA57972 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:57:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root(a)trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA33183; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien(a)dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA33560; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:55:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:55:42 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: New Unix Heritage List, was Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE Message-ID: <20000612155542.G27421(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien(a)NUXI.com References: <20000609152354.A60849(a)dragon.nuxi.com> <200006122250.IAA24777(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200006122250.IAA24777(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>; from wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au on Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 08:50:48AM +1000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 08:50:48AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: > In article by David O'Brien: > > I do not mean to be mean, but it seems moving this to some PDP-11 list (I > > guess one needs to be created) would be possible. Hi Warren, I was wrong for my email. The feed back has been that people like the combined list. I have to admit I too like to see some of the PDP-11 info. I just felt the last thread had gotten off topic when it moved on to purely PDP-11 hardware. I have been told I was wrong. -- -- David (obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA58018 for pups-liszt; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:08:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jun 13 09:05:56 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA58014 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:08:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id JAA24939; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:05:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200006122305.JAA24939(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: New Unix Heritage List, was Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE In-Reply-To: <20000612155542.G27421(a)dragon.nuxi.com> from "David O'Brien" at "Jun 12, 2000 3:55:42 pm" To: obrien(a)NUXI.com Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:05:56 +1000 (EST) Cc: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by David O'Brien: > I was wrong for my email. The feed back has been that people like the > combined list. I have to admit I too like to see some of the PDP-11 > info. I just felt the last thread had gotten off topic when it moved on > to purely PDP-11 hardware. I have been told I was wrong. > -- David (obrien(a)NUXI.com) Everybody, here is a person who has courage & honesty. Thanks for that, David. However, I will still create two groups, because it will allow more specific content to be addressed where relevant. Cheers! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA58497 for pups-liszt; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:45:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jun 13 10:40:04 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA58493 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:45:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA25646 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:43:00 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA58474 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:42:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA25608 for pups@minnie; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:40:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200006130040.KAA25608(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: New: PDP-11 Unix Mailing List To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:40:04 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hello, This is to inform you that you are subscribed to the PDP Unix Preservation Society's mailing list at pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au. This list is specifically to deal with running versions of Unix on the PDP-11 platforms. If you are not interested in this topic, please send some e-mail to majordomo(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au with the folllwing line in the body of the message: unsubscribe pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au If you are subscribed to the digest version, then you can unsubscribe by sending e-mail to majordomo(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au with the folllwing line in the body of the message: unsubscribe pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Cheers! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA60574 for pups-liszt; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:09:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Tue Jun 13 18:07:05 2000 Received: from toulon.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (toulon.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA60570 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:09:40 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (wintermute [134.2.12.56]) by toulon.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E551062; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:07:05 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA54220; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:07:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:07:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200006130807.KAA54220(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: wintermute.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: tfb(a)cley.com Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: <14660.61330.622418.671382(a)cley.com> (message from Tim Bradshaw on Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:11:30 +0100 (BST)) Subject: Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE (was Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD) References: <000609165909.20200fd8(a)trailing-edge.com> <20000609152354.A60849(a)dragon.nuxi.com> <14660.61330.622418.671382(a)cley.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Delivered-To: leypold(a)lesbains.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > From: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)cley.com> > Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:11:30 +0100 (BST) > Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > * David O'Brien wrote: > > > This goes back to the UHS / PUPS discussion. I didn't vote so before, > > but maybe it is time to separate the mail for the two. I agree that the > > first posts were interesting in the historical insight that could be > > gained. But this thread has turned into a rather long hardware > > discussion applicable to only a handful of people that have this > > hardware. > > > I do not mean to be mean, but it seems moving this to some PDP-11 list (I > > guess one needs to be created) would be possible. > > Please don't. I love reading discussions of random old bits of > hardware, and such discussions have gone on on the PUPS list for a > long time. So do I. Actually I can understand the need of some participants to somehow reduce their mail volume. On the other side, it seems to be quite difficult to draw the exact line between on- and offtopic. Personally I try to filter as good as I can, and admittedly I do not read everything at once (and sometimes only weeks later). Regards -- Markus Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA63516 for pups-liszt; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 05:00:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Jun 13 04:49:12 2000 Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com ([216.88.157.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA63512 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 14 Jun 2000 05:00:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)sydney.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00661; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:49:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:49:12 -0700 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Future Direction for PUPS and UHS Message-ID: <20000612114912.G242(a)sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <200006010025.KAA49471(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200006010025.KAA49471(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thursday, 1 June 2000 at 10:25:34 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: > All, > A discussion has started up on the PUPS volunteers list about the > future direction we should take in terms of the PUPS Archive. > > For those people new to this list, here's a bit of background. Originally > I set up the PDP-11 UNIX Preservation Society, the mailing list and the > Archive as that was my interest. > > Since then, we've attracted people with interests in other Unixes, such > as the 4BSDs, and other hardware platforms such as the Vax, the 68k Suns > etc. > > A while back, I changed the charter of the mailing list to encompass any > Unix-related questions, epecially to those systems which are now treated > as `ancient' by the mainstream, even if they are being maintained (e.g > 2.11BSD and the Quasijarus project). > > I also tried to create an umbrella organisation, the Unix Heritage Society > (http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/) which would allow a number of groups > like PUPS and Quasijarus to form, and so that we could co-ordinate their > efforts. I must admit I haven't put much effort into this idea. > > Now, the PUPS Archive (PUPS in name, but it contains lots more than PDP-11 > stuff) is accumulating more and more stuff. Some people want to see a > mainly PDP-11 archive, other want to try and archive everything before it > goes off to /dev/null. > > So, I want to survey the mailing list here for ideas about the charter of > the Unix Heritage Society, and a way of setting up one or multiple archives, > mailing lists, web pages etc. as I originally envisioned. > > Questions: > - should we keep one archive, or have multiple archives? I don't really think it makes any difference. Structure one archive well, and you can get the individual platform archives simply by going down a directory level. The problem is, of course, that some software can be relevant to multiple platforms. > - if one, what structure (divisions on platforms, on vendors etc.) I'd be inclined to go for the hardware platform, but I haven't thought it through. Ultimately it would probably depend on the nature of the software that came in. > - if you have a keen interest in one platform/system, would you > consider becoming the leader of an interest group that could > sit under the Unix Heritage Society umbrella? No, I don't think so. But you might be able to twist my arm. > - do you want to set up and maintain a more specific archive, > mailing list, web site, that the Unix Heritage Society could > point to? No. > - do you want this current mailing list to stay ``all-encompassing'', > or would you rather have more specific lists? Personally I'd like it to be all-encompassing, but then, it's only a small part of the 1000 messages I get per day, and it's easy to delete messages I don't want to read. > [ now stands back for the deluge! ] That really happened, didn't it? Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers

24 years, 11 months

problems booting 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, (Sorry if this is a FAQ) I'm trying to boot the 2.11_rp_unknown image from Boot_Images. This is what happens: ---------------------- gibbon:/net/scharfzahn/playing/boot_images$ pdp11 PDP-11 simulator V2.3d sim> set cpu 18b sim> att rp0 2.11_rp_unknown sim> boot rp 53Boot from xp(0,0,0) at 0176700 : xp(0,0,0)unix Boot: bootdev=05000 bootcsr=0176700 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON panic: buffers no fs on dev 10/0 dumping to dev 5001 off 512 dump args:EINVAL HALT instruction, PC: 006606 (JSR R5,3162) sim> ---------------------- What am I doing wrong? regards, chris Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA51856 for pups-liszt; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:41:54 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Jun 12 09:36:45 2000 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA51851 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:41:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12888; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 16:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 16:36:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200006112336.QAA12888(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: cpg(a)aladdin.de, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: problems booting 2.11_rp_unknown Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: "Christian Groessler" <cpg(a)aladdin.de> > > I'm trying to boot the 2.11_rp_unknown image from Boot_Images. > This is what happens: > > PDP-11 simulator V2.3d > sim> set cpu 18b Try "set cpu 22b" instead. Using 18b tells the simulator you have a 248kb (and 8kb for the I/O page) machine and that is not enough for 2.11 to load and allocate all the resources it needs. > panic: buffers Yep -that panic message says the kernel could not allocate any memory for the buffer cache. I am almost certain that means there is not enough free memory left out of 248kb. > What am I doing wrong? Try telling the emulator to use "22bit" mode. If that still fails let us know. Then it will be time for "Plan B" ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA52060 for pups-liszt; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:45:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Christian Groessler" <cpg(a)aladdin.de> Mon Jun 12 10:37:24 2000 Received: from saturn.aladdin.de (saturn.aladdin.de [194.123.19.66]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA52056 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:45:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from cpg(a)aladdin.de) Received: by saturn.aladdin.de(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 412568FC.00097079 ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 02:43:06 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AKS From: "Christian Groessler" <cpg(a)aladdin.de> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-ID: <412568FC.00096F95.00(a)saturn.aladdin.de> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:37:24 +0100 Subject: Re: problems booting 2.11_rp_unknown Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On 06/11/2000 11:36:45 PM GMT "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > >> >> PDP-11 simulator V2.3d >> sim> set cpu 18b > > Try "set cpu 22b" instead. Using 18b tells the simulator you have > a 248kb (and 8kb for the I/O page) machine and that is not enough > for 2.11 to load and allocate all the resources it needs. > >> panic: buffers > > Yep -that panic message says the kernel could not allocate any > memory for the buffer cache. I am almost certain that means > there is not enough free memory left out of 248kb. > >> What am I doing wrong? > > Try telling the emulator to use "22bit" mode. If that still > fails let us know. Then it will be time for "Plan B" ;) Hmm, sorry, it still doesn't work: --------------------- gibbon:/net/scharfzahn/playing/boot_images$ pdp11 PDP-11 simulator V2.3d sim> set cpu 22b sim> att rp0 2.11_rp_unknown sim> boot rp 53Boot from xp(0,0,0) at 0176700 : xp(0,0,0)unix Boot: bootdev=05000 bootcsr=0176700 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON panic: buffers no fs on dev 10/0 dumping to dev 5001 off 512 dump args:EINVAL HALT instruction, PC: 006606 (JSR R5,3162) sim> --------------------- What is "Plan B"? :-) regards, chris Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA52223 for pups-liszt; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:41:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Jun 12 11:33:37 2000 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA52219 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:41:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13674; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:33:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200006120133.SAA13674(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: cpg(a)aladdin.de, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: problems booting 2.11_rp_unknown Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: "Christian Groessler" <cpg(a)aladdin.de> > Hmm, sorry, it still doesn't work: > sim> set cpu 22b > sim> att rp0 2.11_rp_unknown > sim> boot rp > What is "Plan B"? :-) Plan B is to specify the amount of memory directly. Simply saying "set cpu 22B" tells the emulator to use 22 bit addressing - but it does not say how much memory the system has (it's possible to have 1mb of memory even though ~4mb is possible). Try using both "set cpu 22B" and "set cpu 2048K" - that worked here. It may well be that only "set cpu 2048K" is actually needed - I didn't try that by itself. Script started on Sun Jun 11 18:30:40 2000 moe.1-> cat f set cpu 22B set cpu 2048K att rp0 rp boot rp moe.2-> pdp11 f PDP-11 simulator V2.3d 53Boot from xp(0,0,0) at 0176700 : : xp(0,0,0)unix Boot: bootdev=05000 bootcsr=0176700 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON attaching lo0 phys mem = 2097152 avail mem = 1668352 user mem = 307200 January 8 06:50:29 init: configure system lp 0 csr 177514 vector 200 attached rl 0 csr 174400 vector 160 attached tm 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp 0 csr 176700 vector 254 attached cn 1 csr 176500 vector 300 skipped: No CSR. cn 2 csr 176510 vector 310 skipped: No CSR. cn 3 csr 176520 vector 320 skipped: No CSR. cn 4 csr 176530 vector 330 skipped: No CSR. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # halt syncing disks... done halting HALT instruction, PC: 000014 (MOV #1,12456) sim> q Goodbye moe.3-> exit exit Script done on Sun Jun 11 18:30:59 2000 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA55064 for pups-liszt; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:39:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Christian Groessler" <cpg(a)aladdin.de> Mon Jun 12 23:34:47 2000 Received: from saturn.aladdin.de (saturn.aladdin.de [194.123.19.66]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA55060 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:39:35 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from cpg(a)aladdin.de) Received: by saturn.aladdin.de(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 412568FC.00505777 ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:37:32 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AKS From: "Christian Groessler" <cpg(a)aladdin.de> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-ID: <412568FC.005055C9.00(a)saturn.aladdin.de> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:34:47 +0100 Subject: Re: problems booting 2.11_rp_unknown Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On 06/12/2000 01:33:37 AM GMT "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Plan B is to specify the amount of memory directly. Simply saying > "set cpu 22B" tells the emulator to use 22 bit addressing - but it > does not say how much memory the system has (it's possible to have > 1mb of memory even though ~4mb is possible). > > Try using both "set cpu 22B" and "set cpu 2048K" - that worked here. > > It may well be that only "set cpu 2048K" is actually needed - I didn't > try that by itself. It works :-) :-) Thanks for your help! regards, chris Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA55279 for pups-liszt; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:14:34 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)cley.com> Tue Jun 13 00:11:30 2000 Received: from lostwithiel.cley.com (lostwithiel.cley.com [212.240.242.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA55275 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:14:29 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from tfb(a)lostwithiel.cley.com) Received: (from tfb@localhost) by lostwithiel.cley.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) id PAA20719 for PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:11:31 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: 21.1 (patch 10) "Capitol Reef" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 8 I); VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 10) "Capitol Reef" XEmacs Lucid From: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)cley.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14660.61330.622418.671382(a)cley.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:11:30 +0100 (BST) To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE (was Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD) In-Reply-To: <20000609152354.A60849(a)dragon.nuxi.com> References: <000609165909.20200fd8(a)trailing-edge.com> <20000609152354.A60849(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk * David O'Brien wrote: > This goes back to the UHS / PUPS discussion. I didn't vote so before, > but maybe it is time to separate the mail for the two. I agree that the > first posts were interesting in the historical insight that could be > gained. But this thread has turned into a rather long hardware > discussion applicable to only a handful of people that have this > hardware. > I do not mean to be mean, but it seems moving this to some PDP-11 list (I > guess one needs to be created) would be possible. Please don't. I love reading discussions of random old bits of hardware, and such discussions have gone on on the PUPS list for a long time. --tim

24 years, 11 months

RX02 diskettes

by Jason T. Miller

> And in those cases, you loose as well. The RX02 uses a micro-engine to > control the drive. No chip controller can switch density in the middle > of > the track, so RX02 floppies will forever be in the domain of RX02 drives > only. Funny thing. I read 'em on my PS/2. I Am Not Making This Up. No prefabricated single-chip floppy controller, methinks... -jtm Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA38020 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:01:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sat Jun 10 06:59:09 2000 Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (timaxp.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA38016 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:01:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA(a)timaxp.trailing-edge.com) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:59:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 16:59:09 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-Id: <000609165909.20200fd8(a)trailing-edge.com> Subject: Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE (was Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > This thread has gotten *way* beyond what I (and I'll bet many others) > read this list for. I *think* you wrote this in reply to Steven Schultz's message, (at least that's the impression I got from the headers indicating it was a direct reply to his message), but that doesn't make much sense because what he wrote about was *exactly* on target for what this list is about: Running Unix on PDP-11's. OK, his jabs at Solaris probably weren't exactly on topic, but let's look at what else he discussed: * The disklabel implementation on 2.11BSD and its roots in other Unices. * The history of MSCP drivers in 2.11BSD and other BSD-derived Unices. * Efficient use of DHQ and DHV async multiplexers in Unix. * The history of sh, csh, and tcsh, some introduction to how they use overlays on PDP-11 Unices, and the application of split I/D techniques to their operation. All of these are, IMHO, very worthy topics of discussion for a mailing list about PDP-11 Unix, and they were all direct from the expert on the subject(s). What else would a subscriber to the PUPS list be looking for? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA38149 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:23:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Gael Queri <gqueri(a)mail.dotcom.fr> Sat Jun 10 07:20:51 2000 Received: from baoule.ath.cx (daemon(a)ppp-44-48-96.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.48.96]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA38142 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:23:32 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from gqueri(a)mail.dotcom.fr) Received: (from gael@localhost) by baoule.ath.cx (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e59LKp129969 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:20:51 +0200 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:20:51 +0200 From: Gael Queri <gqueri(a)mail.dotcom.fr> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: tcsh on 2.11BSD Message-ID: <20000609232051.A28762(a)baoule.ath.cx> References: <200006082258.IAA05733(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006090801130.8604-100000(a)guildenstern.shaffstall.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.11i In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006090801130.8604-100000(a)guildenstern.shaffstall.com>; from jasomill(a)shaffstall.com on Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 08:13:49AM -0500 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.16 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 08:13:49AM -0500, Jason T. Miller wrote: > > I thought there was a port of an early tcsh to 2.*BSD? Maybe I have poor > > memory. Anyway, I believe that Minix has a very tiny editline(), which > > could be squeezed into the 2.11BSD csh to give you command-line editing. > Yup. There's a tcsh included in 2.11BSD; thing is, I'm partial to the > Bourne shell. Hence, a project. And did you try to do something with pdksh? It's smaller than tcsh and it has filename completion and support for reentrant history (contrary to bash) look at ftp.cs.mun.ca:/pub/pdksh/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA38483 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:25:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Sat Jun 10 08:23:55 2000 Received: from relay.nuxi.com (root(a)nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA38479 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:25:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root(a)trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03297; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:23:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien(a)dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA60924; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:23:55 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> To: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE (was Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD) Message-ID: <20000609152354.A60849(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien(a)NUXI.com References: <000609165909.20200fd8(a)trailing-edge.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <000609165909.20200fd8(a)trailing-edge.com>; from SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com on Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 04:59:09PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 04:59:09PM -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > This thread has gotten *way* beyond what I (and I'll bet many others) > > read this list for. > > I *think* you wrote this in reply to Steven Schultz's message, (at least Yes, I wrote it in reply to Steven's message. Not it as not directed directly at Steven, it is for everyone that is engaged in this hardware discussion. > All of these are, IMHO, very worthy topics of discussion for a mailing > list about PDP-11 Unix, and they were all direct from the expert on the > subject(s). What else would a subscriber to the PUPS list be looking for? This goes back to the UHS / PUPS discussion. I didn't vote so before, but maybe it is time to separate the mail for the two. I agree that the first posts were interesting in the historical insight that could be gained. But this thread has turned into a rather long hardware discussion applicable to only a handful of people that have this hardware. I do not mean to be mean, but it seems moving this to some PDP-11 list (I guess one needs to be created) would be possible. -- -- David (obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA39191 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:34:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sat Jun 10 11:32:24 2000 Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (timaxp.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA39187 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:34:32 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA(a)timaxp.trailing-edge.com) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:32:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 21:32:24 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU Message-Id: <000609213224.20200fd8(a)trailing-edge.com> Subject: Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE (was Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk >> > This thread has gotten *way* beyond what I (and I'll bet many others) >> > read this list for. >> >> I *think* you wrote this in reply to Steven Schultz's message, (at least >Yes, I wrote it in reply to Steven's message. Not it as not directed >directly at Steven, it is for everyone that is engaged in this hardware >discussion. Actually, Steven did a *very* good job at turning a hardware-oriented discussion to issues very much related to the history and maintainence of Unix. Besides, if anyone here wants to really know about RX50 interleaving, they should go read one of CJL's posts from the Lasnerian early 90's to alt.sys.pdp8/PDP8-LOVERS about RX50 interleave. I swear, it was a tome that was a good chunk of a megabyte long. >> All of these are, IMHO, very worthy topics of discussion for a mailing >> list about PDP-11 Unix, and they were all direct from the expert on the >> subject(s). What else would a subscriber to the PUPS list be looking for? >This goes back to the UHS / PUPS discussion. I didn't vote so before, >but maybe it is time to separate the mail for the two. I agree that the >first posts were interesting in the historical insight that could be >gained. But this thread has turned into a rather long hardware >discussion applicable to only a handful of people that have this >hardware. I view it the other way - the original posts offered little historical insight, but the last one by Steven drew it very much back to Unix. >I do not mean to be mean, but it seems moving this to some PDP-11 list (I >guess one needs to be created) would be possible. Indeed, there is a PDP-11 mailing list (info-pdp11(a)village.org) already, gatewayed to the Usenet newsgroup vmsnet.pdp-11. To a large extent, though, you can't blame members of the PUPS mailing list from occasionally straying from "Unix in general" to the "PDP-11 in particular", because that's a good part of what the list was originally created for (even though you might not have joined until the The Unix Heritage Society solidified...) If there was a more general "Unix Heritage Society" mailing list, would platform-specific discussions be banned from that? I probably would be bored to tears by any such restrictions, as there would be no opportunities to give concrete examples. Tim. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA39261 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:57:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Sat Jun 10 11:54:48 2000 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (root(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA39257 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:57:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA63170; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:24:48 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:24:48 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Cc: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>, PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE (was Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD) Message-ID: <20000610112448.K81728(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <000609165909.20200fd8(a)trailing-edge.com> <20000609152354.A60849(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <20000609152354.A60849(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday, 9 June 2000 at 15:23:55 -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 04:59:09PM -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>> This thread has gotten *way* beyond what I (and I'll bet many others) >>> read this list for. >> >> I *think* you wrote this in reply to Steven Schultz's message, (at least > > Yes, I wrote it in reply to Steven's message. Not it as not directed > directly at Steven, it is for everyone that is engaged in this hardware > discussion. > >> All of these are, IMHO, very worthy topics of discussion for a mailing >> list about PDP-11 Unix, and they were all direct from the expert on the >> subject(s). What else would a subscriber to the PUPS list be looking for? > > This goes back to the UHS / PUPS discussion. I didn't vote so before, > but maybe it is time to separate the mail for the two. I agree that the > first posts were interesting in the historical insight that could be > gained. But this thread has turned into a rather long hardware > discussion applicable to only a handful of people that have this > hardware. > > I do not mean to be mean, but it seems moving this to some PDP-11 list (I > guess one needs to be created) would be possible. Well, FWIW this *is* the PDP-11 list. But I thought it was interesting way beyond the PDP-11 aspect. Some of these things (write-protected labels, for example) still shape FreeBSD, for example. I don't think we really have enough mail to justify two lists. Most of us probably ditch more than 50% of their mail every day anyway; if this doesn't interest you, why not just delete it? Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers

24 years, 11 months

Re: Newer BSD thingies....nice but then again....

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> wrote: > Thanks to Michael for reminding me exactly what the situation with > the optimizer and kernel builds under 4.3 is. Though I think he > forgot to mention "inline" (ack! pffffft!)... :-) We do use inline of course. I love it. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA37569 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:39:28 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Sat Jun 10 05:37:25 2000 Received: from relay.nuxi.com (root(a)nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA37565 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:39:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root(a)[209.152.133.57]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02370; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien(a)dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA49090; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:37:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:37:25 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: jasomill(a)shaffstall.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: PLEASE TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE (was Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD) Message-ID: <20000609123725.S55675(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien(a)NUXI.com References: <200006091842.LAA18214(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200006091842.LAA18214(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com on Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 11:42:16AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This thread has gotten *way* beyond what I (and I'll bet many others) read this list for.

24 years, 11 months

Re: tcsh on 2.11BSD

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Jason T. Miller <jasomill(a)shaffstall.com> wrote: > (my loving father having discarded my > DECmate II as junk about ten years ago). Then call your nearest DEC dealer, get a quote on the replacement price, and sue your dad for the cost! Or report him to NKVD for vandalism of socialist property. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA34141 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:19:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Roger Ivie <rivie(a)teraglobal.com> Sat Jun 10 01:16:50 2000 Received: from ns1.teraglobal.com (ns1.teraglobal.com [63.210.171.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA34137 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:19:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from rivie(a)teraglobal.com) Received: from [10.10.50.26] (208.186.13.23) by ns1.teraglobal.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.2); Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:16:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rivie(a)ns1.teraglobal.com Message-Id: <v0421010ab566b93d974a(a)[10.10.50.26]> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0006090342330.4154-100000(a)lizard.indiana.edu> References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0006090342330.4154-100000(a)lizard.indiana.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:16:50 -0600 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Roger Ivie <rivie(a)teraglobal.com> Subject: Re: RX50 read/write on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Jason Miller wrote: >(not only >does it only support stdin and stdout, but it uses both 'goto' and the >ternary operator; I tend to deeply offend the C style gods, late at >night when I think nobody's watching) Could be worse. I deeply offend the C style gods right in the open where everyone can see. Since I'm pretty much a hardware type, I do _everything_ in state machines. While that works great for everything from hardware to Prolog, it does mean my code tends to assume the only available control structure is "if( expr ) goto state;". My attitude is that the state diagram is the program, the code is just an implementation detail. I used to work for a company that did TURBOchannel devices. I did the device drivers for all the platforms (VAX/VMS, Alpha/VMS, Ultrix, and OSF/1) and I shipped source code (it wasn't a conscious decision on the part of management; since I got to build the distribution kits, the source code was included and management simply didn't argue with me). One day I got a letter from someone who had just bought our TURBOchannel parallel printer port offering to go through the code and remove all those evil gotos for the low, low price of only $100 a page. I declined the offer. -- Roger Ivie rivie(a)teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA37120 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:55:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Sat Jun 10 03:53:05 2000 Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:2026@Zeke.Update.uu.se [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA37116 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:55:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)Update.UU.SE) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA10654; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:53:06 +0200 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:53:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> To: Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> cc: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Newer BSD thingies....nice but then again.... In-Reply-To: <20000608113634.A26968(a)rek.tjls.com> Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000609195015.10628B-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:46:55PM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > > > > Oh, yes. My VS4000m60 needs only 36 hours to go through a "make build". > > > This is pure luxury. > > > > And 4.3BSD-Quasijarus completes its make build on my CSRG dev mill, which is a > > KA655 (3.8 VUPs, whereas your KA46 is 12 VUPs), in a little under 4 hours. The > > GENERIC vmunix kernel is another 30 minutes. > > My experience with compilers on the VAX leads me to believe that the > substantial "savings" seen over NetBSD or post-4.3 BSD distributions here > is almost entirely due to the compiler and options used. If Quasijarus > builds like CSRG 4.3 did, with pcc, it can't even use the optimizer *at all* > for the kernel build, due to severe bugs; either way, pcc runs a lot faster > than gcc though it generates code that runs a whole lot slower. Um. Let me put it this way... Userland is a *lot* smaller in 4.3 than NetBSD... How much time do you think that makes up? The same goes for the kernel. It's not that 4.3 is faster per se, just that it has a lot less to build. > I'd be willing to bet that gcc -O0 would build NetBSD at least ten times > as fast as gcc -O2; the VAX is (as we all know ;-)) a "rather complex" > processor, with "rather complex" instruction patterns, gcc is not the > swiftest of compilers in the first place, and it does a *lot* of work. True. > Slow machines *are* good for demonstrating how good your compiler is; > I recall that rebuilding "compress" with gcc on my 750, way back when, > pretty much doubled the amount of Usenet news I could handle in a day. :-) :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA37260 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 04:45:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sat Jun 10 04:42:16 2000 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA37256 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 04:45:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18214; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:42:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200006091842.LAA18214(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: jasomill(a)shaffstall.com, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)shaffstall.com> > > write: Read-only file system > > 2+0 records in > > 2+0 records out > That's what I get. Oh - ok. I must have misread the initial posting that indicated the complete copy went thru dd if=testrx50.img of=/dev/ra12a 800+0 records in 800+0 records out If the writing of the floppy bailed out after "2+0" then it is no wonder the compare later fails - only the first sector was written. > > After doing the "disklabel -W ra9" the "dd" works fine and the floppy > > compares identical to the input file. > > Still haven't tried it. Had to watch the Pacers game and get some needed > sleep. Sleep I can understand :) I really think (and sure hope!) that write enabling the label area will fix the problem. Having to do a "disklabel -W" on a disk before doing 'raw' I/O was a change that came in when labels were implemented. Before labels the tables were compiled into the driver and 'raw' I/O could scribble all over the disk and the system would still know about the partitioning. When I ported over disklabels from 4.3-Reno it seemed like a "Good Thing" to be paranoid about preserving the label sector ;) > I've gone over ra.c several times -- that's a fun piece of code. I've > written device drivers before, but really, was this a test of DEC > software engineers by DEC hardware engineers? You know - I think it was a contest inside DEC to see who would go crazy first. Reading the comments in the Ultrix drivers gave me the impression that even within DEC getting clear and correct documentation wasn't a given. Then there are Chris Torek's comments in the 4.3-Reno and later MSCP drivers when he was in essence reverse engineering (or outright guessing) the MSCP commands, options, etc. > Well, all my serial cables are three-wire (yes, I'm lazy, but I get > 1.8K/sec via SLIP at 19200, so I'm not too concerned), but the 'numerous > other goodies' I like. Hmmm, that's got to be a DHQ or similar. I had real problems with a DHV-11 and character loss when going over 9600. Also, if you want to use "Kermit" you have to have RTS/CTS because that's a fairly heavy weight protocol and the system can't keep up if the rate is too high. With RTS/CTS in place I was able to use 38400 and not loose a single character. > what I know and love. Give me 2.11BSD on a PDP over Solaris on an > UltraSPARC any day (well, if anyone wants to _give me_ and UltraSPARC, Slowaris? "Just say no" - I have to deal with that at work and it was light night and day going from SunOS 4.1.x to Slowaris 2.x on the same hardware. You *need* an UltraSparc just to restore the system responsiveness. > I'll do the responsible thing and reevaluate my claims -- and SunOS [4.1.x > that is] is a decent OS, but anyway, I digress). The only thing I want is Bit long in the tooth and missing a lot of the improvements (and fixes) in the IP/TCP stack that have been made over time. Still, it was a much nicer system. > command history and filename completion in the Bourne shell (having grown > used to Bash -- although it's a big memory pig and I admit I use it only > for the previously mentioned features, though I like the PS variable magic > characters, too -- I'm thinking about trying to hack the CH features of > tcsh (never been a C shell fan) into sh, maybe we should start a 2BSD > 'ports' collection? Any suggestions for a name of this shell? Any > suggestions for freeing up my time to write it :)? Might I suggest "pig"? <grin!> I like and use 'csh' for everything except the basic scripts that go into the system. Csh has filename completion that works fairly well, only thing it doesn't have is arrowkey driven command editing. But observe the bloat factor that comes with "niceties" such as command history and command editing: First there's the honest to Bourne shell: text data bss dec hex 16576 2356 416 19348 4b94 /bin/sh Then take a look at /bin/csh where there's history and a nicer (to me scripting capability - doing arithmetic in csh is so much easier than in sh): 55744 7104 3682 66530 103e2 total text: 69120 overlays: 7360,6016 Overlaid! Efficiently (the one overlay is called seldom) but overlaid none the less. And lastly 'tcsh' (and yes, there is a port of an older version of tcsh for 2.11): 48960 14844 11986 75790 1280e total text: 140864 overlays: 15424,16000,14144,14016,16256,16064 Zounds! No hope of really being efficient - modules were packed where they would fit. More than doubling the size of 'csh' seems to be a VERY high price to pay for using the arrow keys if you ask me. Oh, and 'tcsh' has another problem due to it's appetite for memory. If it runs out of D space (more likely since it's so much larger) you get logged out. Doing filename completion in 'tcsh' and being in a directory with too many files is a sure way to be staring at the login prompt shortly there after ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA37372 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:01:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> Sat Jun 10 04:59:38 2000 Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA37368 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:01:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from tls(a)panix.com) Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.0.228]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CACD615573; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tls@localhost) by panix3.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id OAA06564; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 14:59:38 -0400 From: Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> To: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Newer BSD thingies....nice but then again.... Message-ID: <20000609145938.A6135(a)rek.tjls.com> Reply-To: tls(a)rek.tjls.com References: <20000608113634.A26968(a)rek.tjls.com> <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000609195015.10628B-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000609195015.10628B-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE>; from bqt(a)Update.UU.SE on Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 07:53:05PM +0200 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 07:53:05PM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > My experience with compilers on the VAX leads me to believe that the > > substantial "savings" seen over NetBSD or post-4.3 BSD distributions here > > is almost entirely due to the compiler and options used. If Quasijarus > > builds like CSRG 4.3 did, with pcc, it can't even use the optimizer *at all* > > for the kernel build, due to severe bugs; either way, pcc runs a lot faster > > than gcc though it generates code that runs a whole lot slower. > > Um. Let me put it this way... Userland is a *lot* smaller in 4.3 than > NetBSD... How much time do you think that makes up? The same goes for the > kernel. It's not that 4.3 is faster per se, just that it has a lot less to > build. Well, of course it does. But it's also well worth keeping in mind that while pcc is generally inferior to gcc in almost every other way, due to its simplicity it *is* probably at least five times as fast. A lot of the difference in speed we're talking about here, particularly with regard to the kernel, is due to the use of a much slower compiler; as much of the kernel as you *have* to build for a VAX (as opposed to what you *can* build if you *want to*) hasn't really bloated a lot between 4.3 and NetBSD. Runtime memory use is a somewhat different matter, but we do still fit into Ragge's smaller VAXen pretty well. Thanks to Michael for reminding me exactly what the situation with the optimizer and kernel builds under 4.3 is. Though I think he forgot to mention "inline" (ack! pffffft!)... :-) -- Thor Lancelot Simon tls(a)rek.tjls.com "And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?" Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA37445 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:21:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 11 months

Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD

by Jason T. Miller

> I freshly formatted a floppy. That's one nice thing about the RX33, > the RQDX3 can format floppies using ZRQF?? - RX50's meant getting > preformat'd media or a Rainbow to do the formatting from what I > remember. Unless you have a Shaffstall 6000 -- a really cool piece of equipment once made by my current employer, which is basically a box full of floppy drives (3.5" HD, 5.25" 48tpi, 5.25" 96tpi, 8", and a few, but not mine, have the Amstrad 3" 'flippy-disk') which are all _really_ well-aligned (20% better than OEM spec) and an intelligent disk controller (which is actually an 8085-based SBC) in a PC. About the only disks I _can't_ read (or write or format) with this thing are the 2.88MB 3.5" 'extended-density' disks -- and I have a NeXTstation to read those. Needless to say, I've got no problem formatting RX50s, in any interleave. > write: Read-only file system > 2+0 records in > 2+0 records out That's what I get. > That probably should have been 2+0 and 1+0 since dd read two sectors but > only successfully wrote one. A bug in 'dd' perhaps that it doesn't > decrement the output count on a write error. I noticed that, too. > After doing the "disklabel -W ra9" the "dd" works fine and the floppy > compares identical to the input file. Still haven't tried it. Had to watch the Pacers game and get some needed sleep. > The MSCP driver hasn't changed in quite a while so if you retrieved > 2.11 fairly recently the problem's not a bug in ra.c that I can > see (or if it is, it's particular to the RX50 somehow). I've gone over ra.c several times -- that's a fun piece of code. I've written device drivers before, but really, was this a test of DEC software engineers by DEC hardware engineers? > One more thing I stuffed into the system. You'll also find > "sigaction" and friends along with RTS/CTS flowcontrol (for devices > which support it), and numerous other goodies imported from 4.4BSD (the > latest addition was 'pselect(2)' just a couple months ago). Well, all my serial cables are three-wire (yes, I'm lazy, but I get 1.8K/sec via SLIP at 19200, so I'm not too concerned), but the 'numerous other goodies' I like. As for the userland environment, it's "vanilla BSD" and that's exactly what I know and love. Give me 2.11BSD on a PDP over Solaris on an UltraSPARC any day (well, if anyone wants to _give me_ and UltraSPARC, I'll do the responsible thing and reevaluate my claims -- and SunOS [4.1.x that is] is a decent OS, but anyway, I digress). The only thing I want is command history and filename completion in the Bourne shell (having grown used to Bash -- although it's a big memory pig and I admit I use it only for the previously mentioned features, though I like the PS variable magic characters, too -- I'm thinking about trying to hack the CH features of tcsh (never been a C shell fan) into sh, maybe we should start a 2BSD 'ports' collection? Any suggestions for a name of this shell? Any suggestions for freeing up my time to write it :)? Also, when I get my RX50 toolset for FreeBSD working, should I put it in the archive? It'd probably be more interesting to PUPS'ers than the FreeBSD community At Large. -jtm Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29341 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:43:34 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Eric Fischer <enf(a)pobox.com> Fri Jun 9 08:41:25 2000 Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29337 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:43:29 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from enf(a)shell-2.enteract.com) Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (enf(a)shell-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.41]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA75007; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:41:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from enf(a)shell-2.enteract.com) Received: (from enf@localhost) by shell-2.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA99748; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:41:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from enf) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:41:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200006082241.RAA99748(a)shell-2.enteract.com> From: Eric Fischer <enf(a)pobox.com> To: pdub(a)accesscom.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: unix precursors In-Reply-To: <393F04A1.2A71E151(a)accesscom.com> References: <m21z29f90d.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> <200006072250.RAA82201(a)shell-1.enteract.com> <393F04A1.2A71E151(a)accesscom.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Paul West writes, > BTW, there apparently were two different timesharing systems developed > for the PDP-1, the second one coming from Bolt, Beranek, and Newman > (BBN). Thanks for reminding me about the Jack Dennis article -- I had forgotten about that one. There were, I think, at least *four* time-sharing systems for the PDP-1. Besides the MIT and BBN ones, there was also the Hospital Computer Project (I'm not sure whether that one was descended from the early BBN system or was written from scratch) and the THOR system at Stanford. I can't give proper citations because I'm currently 2000 miles from my book collection. eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29456 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:00:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Fri Jun 9 08:58:44 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29452 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:00:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id IAA05733; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:58:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200006082258.IAA05733(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: tcsh on 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006081444001.7342-100000(a)guildenstern.shaffstall.com> from "Jason T. Miller" at "Jun 8, 2000 3:40:15 pm" To: jasomill(a)shaffstall.com (Jason T. Miller) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:58:44 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Jason T. Miller: > The only thing I want is > command history and filename completion in the Bourne shell (having grown > used to Bash -- although it's a big memory pig and I admit I use it only > for the previously mentioned features, though I like the PS variable magic > characters, too -- I'm thinking about trying to hack the CH features of > tcsh (never been a C shell fan) into sh, maybe we should start a 2BSD > 'ports' collection? Any suggestions for a name of this shell? Any > suggestions for freeing up my time to write it :)? I thought there was a port of an early tcsh to 2.*BSD? Maybe I have poor memory. Anyway, I believe that Minix has a very tiny editline(), which could be squeezed into the 2.11BSD csh to give you command-line editing. > Also, when I get my RX50 toolset for FreeBSD working, should I put it in > the archive? It'd probably be more interesting to PUPS'ers than the > FreeBSD community At Large. Yep, it will go into Tools/ Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29574 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:24:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Eric Fischer <enf(a)pobox.com> Fri Jun 9 09:21:44 2000 Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29569 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:24:05 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from enf(a)shell-1.enteract.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (enf(a)shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA81631; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:21:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from enf(a)shell-1.enteract.com) Received: (from enf@localhost) by shell-1.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA57997; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:21:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from enf) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:21:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200006082321.SAA57997(a)shell-1.enteract.com> From: Eric Fischer <enf(a)pobox.com> To: lars(a)nocrew.org Subject: Re: unix precursors In-Reply-To: <85snuoenl3.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> References: <m21z29f90d.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> <85snuoenl3.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Lars Brinkhoff writes, > How about ITS, did it influence Unix? If nothing else, the "more" program began as a copy of an ITS feature. And people think of emacs as a Unix program, but it came to Unix from ITS and brought with it things like the "info" documentation format. eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29906 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:28:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Paul West <pdub(a)accesscom.com> Fri Jun 9 10:27:13 2000 Received: from ns2.accesscom.com (root(a)ns2.accesscom.com [64.240.196.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29902 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:28:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pdub(a)accesscom.com) Received: from accesscom.com (ppp19.dialup.accesscom.com [64.240.200.19]) by ns2.accesscom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA28066; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:25:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ns2.accesscom.com: Host ppp19.dialup.accesscom.com [64.240.200.19] claimed to be accesscom.com Message-ID: <394039E1.ED6AB226(a)accesscom.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:27:13 -0700 From: Paul West <pdub(a)accesscom.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lars brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: unix precursors References: <m21z29f90d.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> <85snuoenl3.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk lars brinkhoff wrote: > How about ITS, did it influence Unix? ITS was quite idiosyncratic, and I do not recall that Richie or Thompson ever mentioned it as an influence on Unix. But you can judge for yourself, if you want. The ITS Reference manual is available at "ftp://publications.ai.mit.edu/ai-publications/0-499/AIM-161A.ps" The source code and system documentation for ITS has been released under the GPL, and is at "ftp://fpt.swiss.ai.mit.edu/pub/its". Happy historical hunting! Paul Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29925 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:31:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Paul West <pdub(a)accesscom.com> Fri Jun 9 10:29:55 2000 Received: from ns2.accesscom.com (root(a)ns2.accesscom.com [64.240.196.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29916 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:30:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pdub(a)accesscom.com) Received: from accesscom.com (ppp19.dialup.accesscom.com [64.240.200.19]) by ns2.accesscom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA28267; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:28:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ns2.accesscom.com: Host ppp19.dialup.accesscom.com [64.240.200.19] claimed to be accesscom.com Message-ID: <39403A83.CDDC2592(a)accesscom.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:29:55 -0700 From: Paul West <pdub(a)accesscom.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lars brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: unix precursors (corrected URL) References: <m21z29f90d.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> <85snuoenl3.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Sorry for the repeat, I mistyped a URL in the first version. Paul --- lars brinkhoff wrote: > How about ITS, did it influence Unix? ITS was quite idiosyncratic, and I do not recall that Richie or Thompson ever mentioned it as an influence on Unix. But you can judge for yourself, if you want. The ITS Reference manual is available at "ftp://publications.ai.mit.edu/ai-publications/0-499/AIM-161A.ps" The source code and system documentation for ITS has been released under the GPL, and is at "ftp://ftp.swiss.ai.mit.edu/pub/its". Happy historical hunting! Paul Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA32362 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:09:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)indiana.edu> Fri Jun 9 18:55:11 2000 Received: from sam.on-net.net (sam.on-net.net [204.117.190.8]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32358 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:09:00 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jasomill(a)indiana.edu) Received: from as45.onet.net (as45.onet.net [207.40.154.45]) by sam.on-net.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11456 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:05:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 03:55:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)indiana.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RX50 read/write on FreeBSD Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0006090342330.4154-100000(a)lizard.indiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Thanks to the good advice of members of the PUPS mailing list, I've completed my first stab at an RX50 read/write toolset for FreeBSD. It consists of two parts, a kernel patch to add the physical format, and a filter set to deal with the logical sector interleave. It's ugly (not only does it only support stdin and stdout, but it uses both 'goto' and the ternary operator; I tend to deeply offend the C style gods, late at night when I think nobody's watching), but it seems to work pretty well. The kernel patch, at least, is clean. Those with good karma and flawlessly aligned drive heads can even try formatting their own RX50s. So how do I submit it to the archive? "incoming" seems to be RO. It's about 3K, tarred and gzipped. Jason T. Miller Self-styled Jack of England "..." -Anonymous Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA33589 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:19:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)shaffstall.com> Fri Jun 9 23:14:11 2000 Received: from sam.on-net.net (sam.on-net.net [204.117.190.8]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA33585 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:18:57 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jasomill(a)shaffstall.com) Received: from guildenstern.shaffstall.com (cisdn-2 [206.229.84.2]) by sam.on-net.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17942; Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:14:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)shaffstall.com> To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: tcsh on 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <200006082258.IAA05733(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006090801130.8604-100000(a)guildenstern.shaffstall.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > I thought there was a port of an early tcsh to 2.*BSD? Maybe I have poor > memory. Anyway, I believe that Minix has a very tiny editline(), which > could be squeezed into the 2.11BSD csh to give you command-line editing. Yup. There's a tcsh included in 2.11BSD; thing is, I'm partial to the Bourne shell. Hence, a project. > > Also, when I get my RX50 toolset for FreeBSD working, should I put it in > > the archive? It'd probably be more interesting to PUPS'ers than the > > FreeBSD community At Large. > > Yep, it will go into Tools/ Well, it's kind of ugly (okay, really ugly), but it's working pretty well. The physical I/O portion is a (miniscule) patch against the 4.0-STABLE FreeBSD kernel, but the interleave filters are pretty much standard C (hideous C, but no BSD tricks) and should work on any raw I/O read of an RX50 disk (you can do it in Linux without kernel mods; see setfdprm(8)). Of course, the filters are only applicable to PDP-11-ish or VAX-ish RX50s; Rainbow and DECmate disks are totally different; if someone wants to implement those things, go ahead (Rainbow MS-DOS could be had with careful mods to mtools, and there are a billion ways to skin a CP/M disk; haven't seen anything on UNIX to handle the DEC WPS file management system, but I digress), but they have little to do with UNIX on the PDP and less to do with me personally (my loving father having discarded my DECmate II as junk about ten years ago). -jtm Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA34013 for pups-liszt; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:57:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 11 months

Re: Newer BSD thingies....nice but then again....

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> wrote: > If Quasijarus > builds like CSRG 4.3 did, with pcc [...] It does. > [...] it can't even use the optimizer *at all* > for the kernel build, due to severe bugs [...] Wrong, 4.3BSD-Quasijarus *does* use the optimizer for the kernel build, as did plain 4.3BSD, running c2 -i for the drivers and normally for everything else. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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TUHS June 2000