Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes: Actually there is no MX record. blackwidow.CWRU.Edu is an alias (CNAME record) for blackwidow.SOML.CWRU.Edu, which has IP address 129.22.50.4. This IP address belongs to my VAX running Ultrix. Some time last week it stopped responding to ping, and because I'm off-campus since 3-AUG-1998 I can't do anything about it right now. If everything works out OK, I should be able to come back to campus and get my machine back up the coming Monday, 17-AUG-1998. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular Phone: 216-217-2579 *TEMPORARY* ARPA Internet SMTP mail: gq696(a)cleveland.freenet.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04850 for pups-liszt; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:54:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04845 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:54:20 +1000 (EST) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA28451 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:54:12 -0700 (PDT) X-SMTP: helo isd from rickgc(a)calweb.com server @sac12-81.calweb.com ip 207.211.93.81 user=rickgc Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980813160254.0091bbe0(a)pop.calweb.com> X-Sender: rickgc(a)pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:03:04 -0700 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Subject: PDP-1103 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Dear List, I am trying to work with a PDP 1103 that has been removed from a Vax 11/785. The goal is to be able to write RX01's with the required boot blocks required by NetBSD Vax to boot the 11/785. I figured that since I had several of these 1103's that I could set one up specifically to write RX01's by running some kind of operating system on one that would talk to one of my other machines(Sun 3/80 running NetBSD, Sparc 2 running Solarus 2.51, Vax 3600 running NetBSD, i86's running FreeBSD, NetBSD, Windows 95) via rs232 or what ever. Anyone got any ideas how I might do this? Thanks, Rick Copeland Information Systems Manager InterMag, Inc. (916) 568-6744 x36 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA28571 for pups-liszt; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:32:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from aiai.ed.ac.uk (eigg.aiai.ed.ac.uk [129.215.41.7]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA28566 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:31:54 +1000 (EST) Received: from todday.aiai.ed.ac.uk (todday.aiai.ed.ac.uk [129.215.105.40]) by aiai.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03051; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:31:39 +0100 (BST) Received: (tfb@localhost) by todday.aiai.ed.ac.uk (8.6.13/8.6.12) id PAA19142; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:31:38 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:31:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199808181431.PAA19142(a)todday.aiai.ed.ac.uk> From: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Old Unix Preservation -- How to save the SysV varients In-Reply-To: <199808052115.RAA12664(a)shell.monmouth.com> References: <199808052115.RAA12664(a)shell.monmouth.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.32 under 19.14 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk * Carolyn Pechter wrote: I may well have acces to tapes for RTUs of 1988-89 vintage, as there were several masscomps here (in fact there still is at least one in the basement, not working). No source though of course, and without source they are probably less interesting. I remember RTU as being deeply unpleasant, but that may have been more due to the HW which was extremely flaky, at least on the bigger of our machines. --tim Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01833 for pups-liszt; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:04:43 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01828 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:04:39 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA12804 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:06:45 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199808190306.NAA12804(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Yet More SCO Licenses To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:06:45 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk A whole bunch of SCO licenses have arrived on my desk, bringing the total of Ancient UNIX licenses to 67. Joseph Bickel, Atindra Chaturvedi, Peter Chubb, J. D. Knaebel, Eric Delgado, Hendrik Dykstra, Glenn Geers, Michael Homsey, Michael J. Haertel, Andrew Lynch, Keizo Maeda, Giegrich Michael, Lyndon Nerenberg, and Jim Williams are all now licensed. Cheers all, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA24019 for pups-liszt; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:47:31 +1000 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24014 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:47:24 +1000 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15214; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:42:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199809011442.KAA15214(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User RDKEYS Robert D. Keys), bsdbob(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (Robert D. Keys) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I am curious as to the rationale and reasoning behind: 1) fs naming conventions 2) fs space allocation conventions 3) fs to partition mapping conventions 4) partition conventions historically in unix (particularly the BSD's). Why the differences between 4.3 and 4.4 as relates to var? Why the differences between 4.3 and 4.4 as relates to the contrib sections? Why the convention of hd0a/b/c/d/e/f/g/h for the various fs? I understand the reasoning of a/b/c, but after that the rhyme and reason goes wild, with everyone seemingly doing their own thing. What was the logic of it, originally? Why the sizes of the various fs? I am trying to understand historically the hows and whys things developed as they did. The SMM's don't really cover it very well. Thanks Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24452 for pups-liszt; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:20:52 +1000 (EST) Received: from fudge.uchicago.edu (fudge.uchicago.edu [128.135.136.68]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA24447 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:20:40 +1000 (EST) Received: (from eric@localhost) by fudge.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA15499; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:19:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:19:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809011719.MAA15499(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> From: Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> To: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions In-Reply-To: <199809011442.KAA15214(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> References: <199809011442.KAA15214(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Organization: The University of Chicago Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I don't think I really have all the background necessary to answer these questions, but I'll give it a shot anyway: I believe /var originated in SunOS at a time when Sun was heavily promoting network-mounted file systems. In order to allow /usr to be mounted read-only across the network from a shared server, it was necessary to move all the files that would need to be modified by a running system from their traditional locations in /usr onto a file system that would be writable (and probably not shared with other systems). The rearrangement was then widely copied by other systems, including 4.4BSD. It looks like this one really originated with the Seventh Edition, where "hp" disks were permanently partitioned as follows: partition start length 0 0 23 -> a 1 23 21 -> b 2 0 0 -> c 3 0 0 -> d 4 44 386 -> e 5 430 385 -> f 6 44 367 -> g 7 44 771 -> h (the start and length are in cylinders of 418 blocks apiece) A generic installation, according to the manual, would put root on partition 0, swap on partition 1, and /usr on partition 4 or 7. Partitions 2 or 3 could be used to access an entire disk. Clearly if partition 4 was used for /usr then partition 5 could be used for something else, while if 7 was used it would take up the entire rest of the disk. I'm not sure what the motivation was for the size of partition 6, even though partition g now seems to be the standard one for /usr, but presumably the space between cylinders 411 and 430 could be put to use somehow. The Sixth Edition also had fixed-size partitions, but of different sizes than the Seventh Edition used: partition start length 0 0 9614 -> a 1 18392 65535 -> b 2 48018 65535 -> c 3 149644 20900 -> d 4 0 40600 -> e 5 41800 40600 -> f 6 83600 40600 -> g 7 125400 40600 -> h (these numbers are in blocks, not cylinders). The manual explains the motivation for partitioning: This is done since the size of a full RP drive is 170,544 blocks and internally the system is only capable of addressing 65,536 blocks. Also since the disk is so large, this allows it to be broken up into more managable pieces. I don't understand why these particular sizes were chosen, though, because they don't seem to add up in any sensible way without wasting space or overlapping. The original reason for root to be small and /usr to be large was, I believe, so that the most commonly-used files could be kept on a small, fast, and expensive, head-per-track disk, while the less-frequently used files would be on the larger, slower, but cheaper conventional disk, and the division was maintained even when systems put both file systems on the same disk. As for the exact sizes chosen, I don't know. eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24641 for pups-liszt; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 04:21:24 +1000 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24636 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 04:21:18 +1000 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15796; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:16:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199809011816.OAA15796(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions In-Reply-To: <199809011719.MAA15499(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> from Eric Fischer at "Sep 1, 98 12:19:07 pm" To: eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User RDKEYS Robert D. Keys), pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Thanks Eric.... that sort of discussion makes my day, and feeds my woefully short history folder, nicely! Does anything in print cover this sort of thing in one place? So much to learn.... Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24730 for pups-liszt; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:02:01 +1000 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24725 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:01:55 +1000 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15872; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:56:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199809011856.OAA15872(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions (more????) In-Reply-To: <199809011719.MAA15499(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> from Eric Fischer at "Sep 1, 98 12:19:07 pm" To: eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk > > > > I believe /var originated in SunOS at a time when Sun was heavily > promoting network-mounted file systems. In order to allow /usr to be > mounted read-only across the network from a shared server, it was > necessary to move all the files that would need to be modified by a > running system from their traditional locations in /usr onto a file > system that would be writable (and probably not shared with other > systems). The rearrangement was then widely copied by other systems, > including 4.4BSD. OK. Now it is beginning to make sense. IF one is putting together a small system, where things like remote mounting or large numbers of users are NOT going to be present, are there any sorts of particular reasons to even have a /var fs? For example, on my FBSD boxes (yeah, I know new stuff and not Ancient Unixes, but I have to run it at the office --- at home is another story), I find that I use var mostly for temp stuff, spooling prints and mail, and little else. The ftp user is off on another fs with regular users, where space is not critical (since my ftp archives can vary widely, across time) and I don't want to take up a lot of space with a mostly empty var. That leads to the question of whether or not it is workable to put var as a tree within the root fs? And, then, what did the earlier systems like 32V or V7 use as the mail or print spooling areas? I don't have much info on the earlier systems, except for bits and pieces that I have run across. Sadly, our library here at MOO U, has little from earlier days. Is any of this around on-line? Does this imply that the permanent partitions were pdp-hardware related, or due to limitations in fs addressing schemes due to processor or code design limits? Is the 2 and 3 partition ever used, or was that just something that came along for the ride with the hardware, and not used by unix? OK, now it is beginning to make some sense. It would seem to be due to addressing limits in the machine (drive? processor? code?). It is interesting that here it seems that partitions 1 and 2 were co-addressed, or overlapping, while 4/5/6/7 were sequentially laid out across the disk, perhaps. It would seem that 4/5/6/7 were just simple divisions of the disk into 4 pieces. Was something like this done to accommodate whether the drive was used a a boot drive or a secondary drive? > I don't understand why these particular sizes were chosen, though, > because they don't seem to add up in any sensible way without wasting > space or overlapping. > > > > The original reason for root to be small and /usr to be large was, I > believe, so that the most commonly-used files could be kept on a small, > fast, and expensive, head-per-track disk, while the less-frequently used > files would be on the larger, slower, but cheaper conventional disk, > and the division was maintained even when systems put both file systems > on the same disk. As for the exact sizes chosen, I don't know. Interesting. What sizes, relatively, were such drives from that era of the high-speed type, and by what manufacture? Again... Thanks! Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA24871 for pups-liszt; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:46:21 +1000 (EST) Received: from fudge.uchicago.edu (fudge.uchicago.edu [128.135.136.68]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA24866 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:46:14 +1000 (EST) Received: (from eric@localhost) by fudge.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16702; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:45:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:45:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809011945.OAA16702(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> From: Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> To: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions (more????) In-Reply-To: <199809011856.OAA15872(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> References: <199809011856.OAA15872(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Organization: The University of Chicago Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk [snip] There's no urgent need for it if you don't mind having it as part of root or /usr. On some systems it's nice to have /var on a separate partition so that large mail spools or log files that fill up the /var partition won't also break root or /usr, but this works both ways, because if you had allowed it to be part of a larger partition it might not have filled up in the first place. Lots of systems set it up as just a regular directory within the root directory. Others (like SGIs) make it really be /usr/var and put a symlink from /var to there. V7 mail keeps files in /usr/spool/mail; earlier systems did not have an equivalent directory and delivered mail files directly to users' home directories. UUCP in v7 spooled files to /usr/spool/uucp. The v6 manual (in the manpage for opr) refers to printer spool directories /lib/dpr, /lib/lpr, and /lib/npr; the lpd manpage also lists /usr/lpd. The v1 manual (as TIFF-format scans and OCRed PostScript), as well as much other historical material, is available from Dennis Ritchie's web page, http://plan9.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/ The v7 manual is also at the same site but in http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/ The v6 manual can be extracted from the binary v6 distribution that you can run on a PDP-11 emulator, though troff changed a bit between v6 and v7 so you have to work a bit to get it to format with a modern ditroff. I think they were specifically there for convenience. The smaller disks that were also supported did not all have partitions. I imagine it would be used if you devoted an entire disk to a single file system, or as a way of copying the entire contents of the disk regardless of the partitioning to another device for backup. The v6 C compiler does not have long integers and the PDP-11 is a 16-bit machine, so that's why everything was limited to 65536 blocks. If you want *real* weirdness, check out the v1 manual, in which the seek call had not yet been made to deal with anything over 65536 *bytes*, so seeking on disks worked very strangely. If I'm reading the First Edition manual right, the fixed-head disk was the DEC RF11, with 1024 256-byte blocks -- yes, 256K bytes for the entire hard disk. Dennis Ritchie's paper "The Evolution of the Unix Time-sharing System" refers to a 512K disk, though, so I don't know which to believe. eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA24981 for pups-liszt; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:29:54 +1000 (EST) Received: from mailhost2.transarc.com (mailhost2.transarc.com [158.98.14.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24976 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:29:48 +1000 (EST) Received: from smithfield.transarc.com (smithfield.transarc.com [158.98.16.10]) by mailhost2.transarc.com (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id QAA01769; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:28:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Barron <pat(a)transarc.com> Reply-To: Pat Barron <pat(a)transarc.com> To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions (more????) In-Reply-To: <199809011856.OAA15872(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980901155532.16237I-100000(a)smithfield.transarc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote: Sure, as long as you make the root filesystem large enough, you can just have /var be part of the root filesystem (or do like small SunOS/Slowaris systems do, and have /var be a symbolic link to /usr/var - reasonably safe, since SunOS and Slowaris both tend to assume that /usr is always mounted). Mail is dropped into /usr/spool/mail, or /usr/mail, depending on what system you're talking about. Don't remember where printing went (I actually don't remember if V7 even had a print-spooling system; I did a lot of printing by doing "pr filename > /dev/lp".... The partition sizes were compiled into the driver, not stored in a disk label such as with more modern Unixes (and that was actually the case until fairly recently - I don't think that disk labels made it into the Berkeley code until at least the 4.3BSD-Tahoe release). If you wanted to change a partition boundary, you had to edit some constants in the driver and recompile your kernel (or do what I used to do a lot - use "adb -w" to change the driver tables on-the-fly, and then try to remember to make the same changes to the source code so you didn't get a surprise next time you rebuilt the kernel.....). > > This is done since the size of a full RP drive is 170,544 blocks > > and internally the system is only capable of addressing 65,536 > > blocks. Also since the disk is so large, this allows it to be > > broken up into more managable pieces. > This was a filesystem limitation; the filesystem code could not handle more than 64K blocks in a filesystem, probably because it was using 16 bit unsigned integers internally. --Pat. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02145 for pups-liszt; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:45:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from hesiod.nhh.no (root(a)hesiod.nhh.no [158.37.96.15]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02122 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:44:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from athene.nhh.no (root(a)athene.nhh.no [158.37.96.16]) by hesiod.nhh.no (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21643; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:43:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Hamartun.Priv.NO (Uhamartu@localhost) by athene.nhh.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id WAA04031; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:20:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from tih@localhost) by barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14724; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:14:58 +0200 (CEST) To: Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> Cc: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions (more????) References: <199809011856.OAA15872(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> <199809011945.OAA16702(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO> Date: 02 Sep 1998 22:14:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: Eric Fischer's message of "Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:45:53 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: <8690k2z2yn.fsf(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO> X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.4/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> writes: Another good reason to keep /var (and, for that matter, /tmp) off the root partition is to keep that file system mostly quiescent. You really don't want more writing activity than is absolutely necessary on the file system you have to have intact to even get to single user to run 'fsck', 'restore' and friends. On some systems, having the root file system mounted read-only during normal operation would be a nice security improvement. -tih -- Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier" Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05528 for pups-liszt; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 06:46:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (2026(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05520 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 06:45:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA29001; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:45:39 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:45:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> To: Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> cc: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions (more????) In-Reply-To: <199809011945.OAA16702(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.980903224315.28685A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Eric Fischer wrote: Are you sure that was 256-byte blocks? DEC usually talked about words when it came to the pdp-11, and one word is 2 bytes, meaning the block is 512 bytes. Almost all DEC disks have 512 byte blocks on the pdp-11. Anybody know any exceptions? (Is the RF-11? That disk is before my time...) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA05772 for pups-liszt; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:50:42 +1000 (EST) Received: from fudge.uchicago.edu (fudge.uchicago.edu [128.135.136.68]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA05767 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:50:35 +1000 (EST) Received: (from eric@localhost) by fudge.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA09714; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:50:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:50:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809032150.QAA09714(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> From: Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> To: bqt(a)Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions (more????) In-Reply-To: <Pine.VUL.3.93.980903224315.28685A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> References: <Pine.VUL.3.93.980903224315.28685A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE> Organization: The University of Chicago Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Oh! You're right -- I looked at the line in the manual that says The disk contains 1024 256-word blocks, numbered 0 to 1023 ... and misread 256-word as 256-byte because it was such a strange concept that Unix would ever be doing word-oriented I/O. That makes a lot more sense. eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06405 for pups-liszt; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:01:49 +1000 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root(a)flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06400 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:01:43 +1000 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11780; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809040025.RAA11780(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions cc: eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer), pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Sep 1998 14:16:04 EDT." <199809011816.OAA15796(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:25:15 -0700 From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions In-Reply-To: <199809011719.MAA15499(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> from Eric Fischer at "Sep 1, 98 12:19:07 pm" To: eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User RDKEYS Robert D. Keys), pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Thanks Eric.... that sort of discussion makes my day, and feeds my woefully short history folder, nicely! Does anything in print cover this sort of thing in one place? So much to learn.... Bob Keys The `diskpart' utility was used in 4.4BSD to organize disk partitions. Its manual page tries to rationalize the use of partitions. I enclose it below in case you do not have access to it. Kirk McKusick =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= DISKPART(8) BSD System Manager's Manual DISKPART(8) NAME diskpart - calculate default disk partition sizes SYNOPSIS diskpart [-p] [-d] [-s size] disk-type DESCRIPTION Diskpart is used to calculate the disk partition sizes based on the de- fault rules used at Berkeley. Available options and operands: -p Tables suitable for inclusion in a device driver are pro- duced. -d An entry suitable for inclusion in the disk description file /etc/disktab is generated; for example, disktab(5). -s size The size of the disk may be limited to size with the -s op- tion. On disks that use bad144(8) type of bad-sector forwarding, space is nor- mally left in the last partition on the disk for a bad sector forwarding table, although this space is not reflected in the tables produced. The space reserved is one track for the replicated copies of the table and sufficient tracks to hold a pool of 126 sectors to which bad sectors are mapped. For more information, see bad144(8). The -s option is intended for other controllers which reserve some space at the end of the disk for bad-sector replacements or other control areas, even if not a multiple of cylinders. The disk partition sizes are based on the total amount of space on the disk as given in the table below (all values are supplied in units of sectors). The `c' partition is, by convention, used to access the entire physical disk. The device driver tables include the space reserved for the bad sector forwarding table in the `c' partition; those used in the disktab and default formats exclude reserved tracks. In normal opera- tion, either the `g' partition is used, or the `d', `e', and `f' parti- tions are used. The `g' and `f' partitions are variable-sized, occupying whatever space remains after allocation of the fixed sized partitions. If the disk is smaller than 20 Megabytes, then diskpart aborts with the message ``disk too small, calculate by hand''. Partition 20-60 MB 61-205 MB 206-355 MB 356+ MB a 15884 15884 15884 15884 b 10032 33440 33440 66880 d 15884 15884 15884 15884 e unused 55936 55936 307200 h unused unused 291346 291346 If an unknown disk type is specified, diskpart will prompt for the re- quired disk geometry information. SEE ALSO disktab(5), bad144(8) BUGS Most default partition sizes are based on historical artifacts (like the RP06), and may result in unsatisfactory layouts. When using the -d flag, alternate disk names are not included in the out- put. HISTORY The diskpart command appeared in 4.2BSD. 4th Berkeley Distribution June 6, 1993 2 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06477 for pups-liszt; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:18:48 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06472 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:18:44 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA04168 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:19:01 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199809040119.LAA04168(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:19:01 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk As with much of early Unix, you have to Use the Source, Luke. Small disks like the RK05s and RL02 were not typically partitioned, except to put a swap space at one end. However, bigger disks like the RP04s were. In V6 and V7, this was done by the device driver, and the device minor number represented the particular partition, e.g from v6 hp.c struct { char *nblocks; int cyloff; } hp_sizes[] { 9614, 0, /* cyl 0 thru 23 */ /* cyl 24 thru 43 available */ -1, 44, /* cyl 44 thru 200 */ -1, 201, /* cyl 201 thru 357 */ 20900, 358, /* cyl 358 thru 407 */ /* cyl 408 thru 410 blank */ 40600, 0, 40600, 100, 40600, 200, 40600, 300, }; . . . hpstrategy(abp) struct buf *abp; { register struct buf *bp; register char *p1, *p2; bp = abp; p1 = &hp_sizes[bp->b_dev.d_minor&07]; Here, each of the 8 minor device numbers selected a different set of cylinders on the disk, and note also that some of the sets overlapped. The V6 manual on hp(4) says: Since the disk is so large, this allows it to be broken up into more manageable pieces. The origin and size of the pseudo-disks on each drive are as follows: disk start length 0 0 9614 1 18392 65535 2 48018 65535 3 149644 20900 4 0 40600 5 41800 40600 6 83600 40600 7 125400 40600 It is unwise for all of these files to be present in one installation, since there is overlap in addresses and protection becomes a sticky matter. Early versions of BSD followed this compile-time partition selection. I'm note sure when disklabels appeared, perhaps in 4.2BSD. Kirk or Steven might be able to tell us. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA19059 for pups-liszt; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:16:01 +1000 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA19054 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:15:54 +1000 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29122; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:10:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199809071810.OAA29122(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions In-Reply-To: <199809040025.RAA11780(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM> from Kirk McKusick at "Sep 3, 98 05:25:15 pm" To: mckusick(a)mckusick.com (Kirk McKusick) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Thanks! A couple of more questions, so I get the entire picture.....since you were there.... as the old TV show went..... What are d,e, and f partititions typically used for or originally designed for, as opposed to g? I see some of the historical carryovers in how they were arrived at, but I sense there was probably some reasoning or design advantages one way over another, back in time, or else there would not have been the distinctions. d is a small partition, so what would it have been designed to be used for? It seems the same as root in size, so would it have been, for example, a spare root copy? e is variable in size, and the only use I have seen of it is for the /var fs, so, what was e designed for, or typically used as? Likewise for h. In my limited exposure, I have seen in 4.3BSD that g was typically used for the /usr partition as the rest of the disk. On 4.4BSD, /var was hung on e and g was the usr partition for the rest of the disk, on one setup, and on another things were really confused and var was hung on h, with all different kinds of other fs hung out here and there across the disks. The rationale for it was, at best, confusing to the newbie. Is it particularly important to worry about how it is laid out, or in the Berkeley tradition, are there particular advantages or economies to laying it out with d/e/f/ as opposed to just g? I see the fs loading table in the 4.4 install guide, but was wondering if there was more to it than that. This is what I am seeing, it would appear. Maybe the advantages of earlier layouts vs disks are becoming lost with the modern megadisks, in many instances. Also, I tend to see things from the point of view of a single user workstation as opposed to a big multiuser server of some kind. Thus, my frame of refernce is a little skewed. Thanks Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24382 for pups-liszt; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:27:21 +1000 (EST) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (knecht.sendmail.org [209.31.233.160]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24376 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:27:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root(a)flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by knecht.Sendmail.ORG (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14038; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19252; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809082116.OAA19252(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Looking for rationale of fs naming conventions cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:10:42 EDT." <199809071810.OAA29122(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:16:11 -0700 From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Most commonly, d was used for /tmp (before the days of memory-based filesystems). The e partition was used for /var, and f was used for /usr. The e partition was the same size as the root filesystem so that it could be used as a backup root filesystem. Kirk McKusick Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03259 for pups-liszt; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:54:53 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03253 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:54:48 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA02038 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:54:51 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199809102354.JAA02038(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: CSRG CDs now available To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:54:51 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk All, Kirk McKusick is back from his 3-week trip and is now shipping the 4CD set of BSD releases from the Computer Systems Research group. It covers all BSD versions from 1BSD to 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite2 (but not 2.11BSD, unfortunately). As well, the last disk holds the final sources plus the SCCS files. Details at http://www.mckusick.com/csrg/ Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA12474 for pups-liszt; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:23:59 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12469 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:23:55 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01670 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:24:03 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA12438 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:12:10 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA01633 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:12:17 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199809191112.VAA01633(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Help Save 4BSD Boot Tapes! To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:12:17 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Many kudos to Kirk McKusick for making the entire BSD releases from the Computer Systems Research Group available on CD. However, many people are going to buy the CD set so they can install 4.3BSD on their personal Vax. Unfortunately, the 4CD set from Kirk does not contain any tape images (bootable or otherwise) which would allow any of the 4BSDs to be installed. Therefore, I'm asking anybody who might have old 4BSD tapes lying in a corner, or knows someone who might have old 4BSD tapes (or has heard a rumor about old 4BSD tapes etc.) to e-mail me with the details. If we can unearth any old 4BSD tapes, then I am sure there will be volunteers around who will be very happy to read the tapes, and I will make space for them alongside the other files and tape images in the PUPS archive. While I'm here, I might as well say that I'm still looking for any old PDP-11 versions of UNIX, or any applications written for early versions of UNIX, or anything machine-readable which is generally related to early versions of UNIX. Debbie Scherrer has just donated the Software Tools, and both Dennis Ritchie and Norman Wilson are slowly scanning in their paper copies of man pages for UNIX Editions 1 to 5. Many thanks in advance for your help in preserving the history of Unix. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA04014 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 04:14:38 +1000 (EST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04009 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Sat, 3 Oct 1998 04:14:31 +1000 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id OAA14142; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA24749; Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:14:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:14:22 -0700 (PST) From: Brian D Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: CSRG CDs now available In-Reply-To: <199809102354.JAA02038(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.95.981002111200.28977B-100000(a)world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Warren Toomey wrote: FYI, these are a *really* nice set of CDs. I was completely amazed at how professionally they'd been put together. Any progress on the BSD binary images for VAX? -brian. --- Brian "JARAI" Chase | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ | VAXZilla LIVES!!! Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26021 for pups-liszt; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:54:33 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26016 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:54:29 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA22782 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:55:04 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199810072255.IAA22782(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Found 4BSD tapes at last To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:55:04 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk ----- Forwarded message from Kirk McKusick ----- To: "J.S. Havard", Warren Toomey Subject: Found at Last My excavations on campus turned up six boxes of 9-track tapes containing most of the BSD distributions. In particular, I have found one labelled "4.3BSD Revision 2, Domestic Master" 6250bpi 3/4/87. There is also a similar tape (presumably revision 1) from about six months earlier. I do not have access to a 9-track tape drive, so I have no idea if the tape is even readable, but I am willing to mail it to someone who does have a 6250bpi drive that wants to take a crack at it. ~Kirk ----- End of forwarded message from Kirk McKusick ----- Would anybody near Kirk be prepared to read these tapes, gzip the tape records, type in any tape labels glued to the reels, and send the whole lot in to the PUPS archive?! Many thanks in advance for the help. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03040 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:37:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03035 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:37:50 +1000 (EST) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA10516; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:37:34 -0700 (PDT) X-SMTP: helo rgc from rickgc(a)calweb.com server @sac12-67.calweb.com ip 207.211.93.67 user=rickgc Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981008074651.008fe690(a)pop.calweb.com> X-Sender: rickgc(a)pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 07:46:54 -0700 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Subject: Re: Found 4BSD tapes at last Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Where is Kirk located? If it is near California, I can do the work. Rick Copeland Information Systems Manager InterMag, Inc. At 08:55 AM 10/8/98 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03308 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:54:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.12]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03303 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:54:12 +1000 (EST) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA02188; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:54:01 -0700 (PDT) X-SMTP: helo rgc from rickgc(a)calweb.com server @sac15-90.calweb.com ip 207.211.87.90 user=rickgc Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981008090318.0090f520(a)pop.calweb.com> X-Sender: rickgc(a)pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:03:21 -0700 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Subject: Re: Found 4BSD tapes at last Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Warren, Apparently Kirk is only 60 to 70 miles away from me, so shipping or pickup on the week end is not a problem. Please contact Kirk and have him contact me. Rick Copeland Information Systems Manager InterMag, Inc. (916) 568-6744 x36 At 08:55 AM 10/8/98 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03360 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:15:10 +1000 (EST) Received: from corinne.cpio.org (corinne.cpio.org [209.218.145.10]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA03355 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:15:05 +1000 (EST) Received: (qmail 9126 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Oct 1998 16:21:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Joseph Max Katz" <jkatz(a)cpio.net> X-Sender: jkatz(a)corinne.cpio.org To: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> cc: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Found 4BSD tapes at last In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981008090318.0090f520(a)pop.calweb.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.02.9810080921230.16361-100000(a)corinne.cpio.org> X-Silly-Sender: Mr. Potatoe Head Organization: CPIO Networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk We may have some equipment at my workplace we can use. We're in San Jose, he's in Berkeley, 50-70 miles in the other direction. I need to get clearence from the boss, first, though. -Jon Jonathan Katz, CEO CPIO Networks, Inc. (408) 569-7092 [ ] jkatz(a)cpio.net http://www.cpio.net [ ] "offering OpenBSD technical support, on-site Unix and network security services and training." On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Rick Copeland wrote: :Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:03:21 -0700 :From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> :To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> :Subject: Re: Found 4BSD tapes at last : :Warren, : :Apparently Kirk is only 60 to 70 miles away from me, so shipping or pickup :on the week end is not a problem. Please contact Kirk and have him contact :me. : :Rick Copeland :Information Systems Manager :InterMag, Inc. :(916) 568-6744 x36 : : :At 08:55 AM 10/8/98 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: :>----- Forwarded message from Kirk McKusick ----- :> :>To: "J.S. Havard", Warren Toomey :>Subject: Found at Last :> :>My excavations on campus turned up six boxes of 9-track tapes :>containing most of the BSD distributions. In particular, I have :>found one labelled "4.3BSD Revision 2, Domestic Master" 6250bpi :>3/4/87. There is also a similar tape (presumably revision 1) from :>about six months earlier. I do not have access to a 9-track tape :>drive, so I have no idea if the tape is even readable, but I am :>willing to mail it to someone who does have a 6250bpi drive that :>wants to take a crack at it. :> :> ~Kirk :> :>----- End of forwarded message from Kirk McKusick ----- :> :>Would anybody near Kirk be prepared to read these tapes, gzip the :>tape records, type in any tape labels glued to the reels, and send :>the whole lot in to the PUPS archive?! :> :>Many thanks in advance for the help. :> :>Cheers, :> Warren :> :> : Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA03449 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:50:07 +1000 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root(a)flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA03444 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:50:02 +1000 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09797; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810081634.JAA09797(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Subject: Re: Found 4BSD tapes at last cc: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:03:21 PDT." <3.0.32.19981008090318.0090f520(a)pop.calweb.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:34:48 -0700 From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:03:21 -0700 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Subject: Re: Found 4BSD tapes at last Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Warren, Apparently Kirk is only 60 to 70 miles away from me, so shipping or pickup on the week end is not a problem. Please contact Kirk and have him contact me. Rick Copeland Information Systems Manager InterMag, Inc. (916) 568-6744 x36 Hi, I am located at: Kirk McKusick 1614 Oxford Street Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 I could mail you the tape, but I would prefer to find a way to get it to you that would minimize its being bounced around. Any ideas? Kirk McKusick Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04624 for pups-liszt; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:42:10 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04619 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:42:05 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA24785 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:42:46 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199810082242.IAA24785(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: 4BSD tapes to be read To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:42:46 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk All, Rick Copeland has arranged to pick the 4BSD tapes up from Kirk and read them this or next week. Thanks to all the people who volunteered, and hopefully copies of the tapes will be in the archive soon. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA00493 for pups-liszt; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:51:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00382 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:43:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA04829 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:57:46 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199811120257.NAA04829(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Upgrade of PUPS List server To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:57:45 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk All, I have just upgraded the server where the PUPS mailing list resides, to a newer operating system version. This email is just to test that the MajorDomo software is still working. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA04919 for pups-liszt; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:28:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f