Hi, sorry if this is off topic, but... have anyone ordered/tested
the Free versions of SCO OpenServer and/or UnixWare? Are them interesting
enough? (I'm currently playing with both Linux and FreeBSD, and
since we are talking about the UNIX PDP source license from a lot
of time, i wish to know if these Free UNIX versions contain some
interesting/useful UNIX source code...)
Regards,
Sandro
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Nov 24 12:48:36 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199711240248.NAA11909(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PDP-11 Unix Source Licenses - Status
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:48:36 +1100 (EST)
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Hi all,
We've had a number of new subscribers to the PDP-11 UNIX mailing
list, so I'd like to welcome them to the list, and say that questions about
these old systems (and the hardware) are always welcome here, so fire away!
I mailed Dion Johnson at SCO again re the license issue, with no reply.
I tried some other SCO contacts, and got this back from Peter Laytham:
Unfortunately this is always a busy time for SCO folk - September is
our end of financial year, which means October and November are given
over to planning and regional kick-off events including training
(which Dion gets involved in).
If you can bear with us, we are both submitting your case to the
powers that be within SCO. However SCO has a fair bit of other work
to cope with keeping the evil empire at bay and rolling out some
significant new technologies (SVr5, Tarantella and two clustering
products - reliantHA and Non-stop for UnixWare) which is slowing down
non critical decisions such as this one.
Cheers
Peter
So it looks like we're in for some more waiting.
Sorry for the lack of change in status,
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Nov 24 13:20:46 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199711240320.OAA12125(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PDP-11/04 serial pinout (fwd)
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:20:46 +1100 (EST)
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----- Forwarded message from Nickolai Zeldovich -----
[Nickolai, a message posted to the vmsnet.pdp-11 and alt.sys.pdp11 newsgroups
should also get some answers for you! -- Warren]
From: Nickolai Zeldovich <kolya(a)zepa.net>
Hi,
I was wondering if you could answer a simple (or maybe not, I'm not all
that sure) question about PDP machines for me. I managed to get a
PDP-11/04, I believe, but it had no console with it. All it has on the
back is a RS232-looking plug with some unknown to me pinout. Would you be
so kind as to give me some information or pointers how to hook up any sort
of an input/output device to it?
-Thank You.
Nickolai Zeldovich.
--
+-------------------------+----------------------+--------------------------+
| Nickolai Zeldovich | ZEPANET | UCF Math Department |
|
http://kolya.zepa.net/ |
http://www.zepa.net/ |
http://www.math.ucf.edu/ |
| nickolai(a)kolya.zepa.net | nickolai(a)zepa.net | nickolai(a)math.ucf.edu |
+-------------------------+----------------------+--------------------------+
----- End of forwarded message from Nickolai Zeldovich -----
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue
Nov 25 08:37:00 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199711242237.JAA23316(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Last Email from SCO - new license wording
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:37:00 +1100 (EST)
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All,
I've just received some email from Dion Johnson at SCO re the PDP-11
UNIX source licenses. Apparently he's been away from work (holidays?). He
says:
I have a new cut of the proposed license
from our NJ Legal folks. I compare with past versions
and see what it has. I know the 32V was added to the
list of licensed versions (good). Not sure if the
other problems were fixed. I will get back
to you before the holiday weekend coming.
As always, I'll let you know things as I receive them.
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri
Dec 5 08:06:53 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199712042206.JAA04976(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PDP 11 Discs - UK readers please
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:06:53 +1100 (EST)
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Can any of our UK PDP-11 people help this guy out? I don't know if the
disks contain Unix or other stuff.
Warren
----- Forwarded message from Roger Chan -----
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:31:07 +0000
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
From: Roger Chan <roger.chan(a)ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: PDP 11 Discs
Dear Warren,
I was hoping you might be able to help me regarding some PDP 11 discs
which we have here, and wish to extract data from.
The discs are labelled:
2315 Disc cartridge
12 Sector
DRI Part number 592
We have a number of these discs containg data which we would like to
have converted into a format which can easily be read by a PC (ASCII, or
whatever.)
However, as you can tell by my e mail address, I'm in the UK and I was
wondering if you knew of anyone/ any group in Britain who could help me
with this task. If you do, I would be very grateful if you forwarded this
message on to them.
Thank you very much,
Roger Chan
Dept. of Visual Science
Institute of Ophthalmology
University College London
London
EC1V 9EL
UK
----- End of forwarded message from Roger Chan -----
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From Roger Chan <roger.chan(a)ucl.ac.uk> Thu Dec 4
20:31:07 1997
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Message-ID: <34871ACD.4ACC(a)usa.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:04:13 -0800
From: uko(a)kortedala.educ.goteborg.se
Reply-To: uko(a)kortedala.educ.goteborg.se
Organization: kortedalagymnasiet
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I just bought an 11/23 with RL02 and i have litle problems setting it up
If anybody feels for helping please mail me at
mario.jelica(a)usa.net
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri
Dec 5 12:25:54 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199712050225.NAA05350(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix v5
To: zomad(a)rio.com (Erin Corliss)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:25:54 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.95.971204172645.25398B-100000(a)rio.com> from Erin Corliss at
"Dec 4, 97 05:35:12 pm"
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In article by Erin Corliss:
My roommate and I have a PDP-11/23 Plus that has no disk or tape drives
and no controller board for either. I've been able to boot Unix version 5
on an emulator here, and from what I've read, this operating system should
be able to boot on the PDP-11/23. The operating system has a kernel in
the root directory called "unix", which is about 23 kilobytes long. I am
trying to set the computer up to boot from a serial port which will be
connected to a Linux machine, which will simulate an RK05 disk drive.
Does anyone know where the low level routines for reading and writing on
an RK series drive are found? Are they built into the kernel or are they
in some separate device driver or module? Also, I need to know what
memory locations are used as registers by the RK05 drive and what commands
can be given to it, so if anyone has spec sheets for it....
Eric, I don't think this is going to work. The RK05 driver is in the
kernel, and it plays with the RK05 hardware registers. You aren't going
to be able to emulate these, as far as I can tell.
If you tell us where you live, perhaps someone on the list might be
able to help you find an appropriate drive and disks for your 11/23+.
I do have some old ('74) spec sheets for the RK05 drives.
Does anybody else have other suggestions???
Best wishes,
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri
Dec 5 13:30:01 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199712050330.OAA05624(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix v5
To: zomad(a)rio.com (Erin Corliss)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:30:01 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.95.971204185633.27884A-100000(a)rio.com> from Erin Corliss at
"Dec 4, 97 07:14:18 pm"
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In article by Erin Corliss:
On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Warren Toomey wrote:
Eric, I don't think this is going to work.
The RK05 driver is in the
kernel, and it plays with the RK05 hardware registers. You aren't going
to be able to emulate these, as far as I can tell.
I was looking at a disassembly of the boot sector on one of the disk
images I downloaded and from what I could see the software talks to the
hardware through memory addresses in the area of 177xxx, in a similar
fashion to the way Apple II's and Amiga's talk to their hardware. If I
can get information about what addresses and values are used to control
the RK05, I think it would be possible to gut out some non-essential part
of the kernel, the tape drive controller for example, and replace it with
code that sends and receives RK05 commands and data through the serial
port. I would then search through the kernel and replace all of the
references to the RK05's registers to BSR's that went to appropriate
places in my serial port routines.... I've performed similar kludging on
PC's and Amigas, so I'm pretty certain I can manage it if I have the right
information to start with.
If you tell us where you live, perhaps someone on
the list might be
able to help you find an appropriate drive and disks for your 11/23+.
That would be easier...
Eugene, Oregon, USA
I do have some old ('74) spec sheets for the
RK05 drives.
Any chance I could get a peek?
Eric, I'll put you on the PUPS mailing list so you'll get any replies from
the other members. I'll try and scan in the RK05 docs and put them up via
ftp for you.
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri
Dec 5 14:33:37 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199712050433.PAA05757(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix v5
To: Bob.Supnik(a)digital.com (Bob Supnik)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:33:37 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <6B84B1FF221BD011B0AC08002BE6920656D2F5(a)excmso.mso.dec.com> from Bob
Supnik at "Dec 4, 97 11:26:15 pm"
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In article by Bob Supnik:
Warren,
The RK05 is implicitly documented in the sources to the PDP-11
simulator, if that would help.
Yes, I hadn't thought of that. Other places are the Lions commentary,
and the Unix source of course.
Thanks for the reply Bob.
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri
Dec 5 14:49:13 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199712050449.PAA05787(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PDP-11: Disk over Serial proposal
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:49:13 +1100 (EST)
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Ok, it would be nice to have a way of installing Unix onto a PDP-11 without a
tape drive. Here's a proposal: please comment on it (i.e shoot it down!). I
actually wrote a very similar system to move files off my Apple ][ once.
The PDP-11 is connected serially to another computer, using a DL11 port. The
other computer will simulate one or more disk drives which are acessible by
commands sent over the serial line.
The idea is that a person can hand-enter the boot code to retrieve the
`boot block' from the simulated disk drive. From there, the bootstrap
can retrieve the Unix kernel, which can then use the simulated drive as
the root filesystem. The user can then log in, use mkfs to build a filesystem
on a real disk drive, and install a suitable Unix kernel without requiring a
tape drive.
The protocol used must be simple enough that bootstraps can be entered
manually - at least to get the boot block from the second computer.
Minimalist Protocol
-------------------
4-byte commands are sent from the PDP-11 to the other computer. The
command structure is:
Byte 0: What command to perform
Byte 1: On which remote drive to perform the command
Byte 2: Low-order bits of block number
Byte 3: High-order bits of block number
Blocks are 512 bytes. The commands allow access to 65,536 blocks (32Megs)
on 256 virtual disk drives. Of course, an alternate view could be 65,536
on 256 platters, giving 8G of disk space.
Commands are: 0x00 NOP Do nothing
0x01 READ Read specified block
0x02 WRITE Write specified block
NOP: The second computer does nothing in response. However, this can be
used to determine if the PDP-11 is actually sending commands.
READ: The second computer returns 512 bytes which contains the requested
block. There is no checksum, framing bytes or block# details.
WRITE: The PDP-11 sends 512 bytes which contains the requested block.
There is no checksum, framing bytes or block# details. The second
computer does nothing in response.
Drawbacks: Line noise is gonna really cause havoc. Only one command can be
pending, as the PDP-11 has no idea what block is what when it comes
back from the second computer.
Advantages: Should be easy to write bootstrap and /usr/mdec software, and a
kernel-level device driver should be very easy. Altering v5, v6, v7
2.9BSD and 2.11BSD should be straight-forward.
Do we need a more sophisticated protocol with checksums, multiple outstanding
commands, acknowledgments, framing bytes etc.?
Cheers all,
Warren
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From Erin Corliss <erin(a)corliss.com> Fri Dec 5
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Subject: PDP-11: Disk over Serial proposal
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The PDP-11 is connected serially to another computer,
using a DL11
port. The
other computer will simulate one or more disk drives
which are
acessible by
commands sent over the serial line.
Does the DL11 port have an interrupt that is driven when data is
received, or do processes have to constantly poll it to receive data?
Is the information stored on a PDP-11 disk in 8 or 9 bit words? How
many bits per word are transmitted/received by the DL11?
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From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Fri
Dec 5 18:51:33 1997
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To: erin(a)corliss.com
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: PDP-11: Disk over Serial proposal
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This shouldn't be a problem. Thinking from a 2.11 point of view, if
something that could load the standalone kernel was written and an
additional deveice driver included that would talk over the serial line
once the standalone stuff was up you could treat the PC, or whatever, as
a tape drive. Whilst this doesn't give all the frills of full disc
access it has a couple of good thigs to it:
1) The only stuff that has to be loaded over the serial line without
the benefit of lots of code that can do error checking is the initial
standalone loader.
2) The standalone loader can then treat the serial port as a tape drive
which is a relatively simple process as far as the loader is concerned
and so you would only need a driver that looked like a TS11 (say) but
talked to a serial port.
3) The PC end would then just have a simple prog that would treat the
files on the PC as tape files which would make shipping stuff around
easy as we could then do this as dump or tar forms which could be just
ftp'd etc from archives.
It would be slow but it would get things going quite simply.
Ideas + comments please?
Robin
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU Old computers and radios always welcome
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