At my university there's a grad class that's ostensibly on reverse engineering,but you can't really disassemble anything if you don't learn assembler, so you learn it. The downside, I guess, is that I've read a decent amount of x86 assembler, but written very little. I don't think it's a bad way to learn, but of course, Larry was talking about teaching a nice instruction set, and you kind of lose that. But you get Windows DLL function calling back as a booby prize. John Finigan