18 Mar
1998
18 Mar
'98
4:59 a.m.
That reminds me. Why can't the 11/73 boot the unix RL pack directly from
console boot dialog? The system boots RSTS and RT-11 packs. Is the boot
block munged/missing? I might add it boots fine using boot/foreign from
rt11.
It's a curiousity as having RT on floppy or HD is not a big thing for me.
But if it can be fixed that would be an improvement.
Allison
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I don't think Bob's latest emulator has got this. I've hacked at another
program to do this, and I'll make it available tomorrow.
Bob has asked me to submit this to him for inclusion in his simulator.
Warren
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It's actually 56kb or less - have to leave room for the stack and
other data (strings, etc)
Steven
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Various things defined in the program. They relate to the area in
which I was tweaking.
It's actually 56kb or less - have to leave room for the stack and
other data (strings, etc)
Yes, I understand. It may of course be that we need separate I and D.
Greg
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From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Thu Mar
19 01:17:18 1998
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Subject: Re: V7 startup
To: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:17:18 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803180459.AA20873(a)world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent"
at Mar 17, 98 11:59:06 pm
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That reminds me. Why can't the 11/73 boot the
unix RL pack directly from
console boot dialog? The system boots RSTS and RT-11 packs. Is the boot
block munged/missing? I might add it boots fine using boot/foreign from
rt11.
The 11/73 firmware bootstrap expects the boot block to conform to certain
standards specified by DEC in the early/mid-80's. In particular, the
bootstrap must begin with a NOP, but there are some other requirements
I don't recall at the moment.
The toggle-in bootstraps that DEC supplied didn't do any such checks (who'd
want to toggle tha check in everytime, anyway?), they just read block 0 to
location 0 and jump to it (well, some also assume things about the SP
going somewhere reasonable, and sometimes certain register locations set
to certain things.) And RT-11's BOOT/FOR doesn't make any such checks,
either.
It's a curiousity as having RT on floppy or HD is
not a big thing for me.
But if it can be fixed that would be an improvement.
You can either rewrite the 11/73 firmware to not do the check, or you can
rewrite the V7 boot block so it conforms to DEC's standard. The RL02
is a particularly stupid device and requires an inordinately large bootstrap,
so there may not be a lot of free room in the V7 boot block. You can also
stick a "toggle-in" RL02 bootstrap into RAM via ODT and execute that. But
I've decded that for me, the solution of RT's BOOT/FOR is the best, just
as you seem to have :-).
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu
Mar 19 12:27:07 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803190227.NAA04067(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: What's TENIX??
To: haba(a)pdc.kth.se (Harald Barth)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:27:07 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <199803190143.CAA28649(a)pancake.pdc.kth.se> from Harald Barth at
"Mar 19, 98 02:43:13 am"
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In article by Harald Barth:
One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite understand the
hardware of) calls itself
Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
LSI-11/73 (only part made by DIGITAL)
Controller with
8'' floppy
40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
Controller with
10 ttys
Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.
Any ideas, people??
Warren
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From "Sheila H.//Elwood Blues"
<shsrms(a)erols.com> Thu Mar 19 13:40:55 1998
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:40:55 -0500
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Subject: Re: What's TENIX??
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Warren Toomey wrote:
In article by Harald Barth:
Tenex was a PDP10 (aka DECSystem 10/20) operating system.
Some 10s had 11s as consoles.
bob
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One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite
understand the hardware of) calls itself
Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
LSI-11/73 (only part made by DIGITAL)
Controller with
8'' floppy
40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
Controller with
10 ttys
Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I might punt this onto the
mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.
Any ideas, people??
Warren From Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se> Fri Mar 20
21:06:44 1998
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To: shsrms(a)erols.com
Cc: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, haba(a)pdc.kth.se, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: What's TNIX (Was: What's TENIX??)
From: Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:40:55 -0500"
References: <351093C7.5B96(a)erols.com>
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Hi,
I wrote to Warren:
> > One PDP-11 I have (and don't quite
understand the hardware of) calls itself
> > Tektronix 8562. In that box (43x60x30cm) you find
> > LSI-11/73 (only part made by DIGITAL)
> > Controller with
> > 8'' floppy
> > 40Mb MFM disk with TENIX (binary of some kind of V7 Unix)
> > Controller with
> > 10 ttys
Warren wrote:
> Hmm, I haven't heard of Tenix before. I
might punt this onto the
> mailing list to see if anybody can identify it.
shsrms(a)erols.com wrote:
Tenex was a PDP10 (aka DECSystem 10/20) operating
system.
Some 10s had 11s as consoles.
The Tektronix manuals say "Tektronix Unix" and "TNIX". Looks like
I've
to boot the box and have a closer look at the actual software. I'm
quite sure that it is some kind of v7. Unfortunately, it's just
binaries. I don't think this should be confused with Tenex and/or
PDP10s which had PDP11s and PDP8s as I/O processors in different
places.
Harald.
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From Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se> Sun Mar 22
11:44:17 1998
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Cc: bygg(a)sunet.se, thn(a)stacken.kth.se, haba(a)pdc.kth.se
Subject: Two different 2.11?
From: Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se>
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Started to get 2.11BSD working on emulator and 11/70. So far:
Started emulator taken from:
ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02/
Made kernel on emulator which supports the actual hardware:
DELUA at non standard addr, RA81, RL02
Moved boot RL02 to 11/70 with RSTS/E
Made bootable RA81 on 11/70
Untar:ed usr from
ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/file6.tar.gz
....And now the binaries from that tar file crash with "unknown system
call" However, the binaries distributed in the disk images work. Any
clues?
Harald.
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From "Steven M. Schultz"
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Mar 22 14:23:15 1998
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From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803220423.UAA08735(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Two different 2.11?
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Greetings -
No, there is only 1 2.11BSD (in the sense that there are NOT
competing versions or distributions).
What happened I believe is that the Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 is older
than the files in Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD.
I have not looked at the Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 files to determine
when they were created (what patch level, etc.). On your RL02 system
what do the first two or three lines of /VERSION?
Anyhow, between the time that the 2.11_on_rl02 images were created
(I did not create them) and December-1997/January-1998 several new
system calls were created _AND_ the entire system was recompiled
and relinked. That is why you can NOT use binaries from the
Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD with earlier kernels. There is UPWARD
compatibility (old binaries can run on new kernels) but not backwards
compatibility.
What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
2.11BSD.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
From: Harald Barth <haba(a)pdc.kth.se>
Started to get 2.11BSD working on emulator and 11/70. So far:
Started emulator taken from:
ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02/
Made kernel on emulator which supports the actual hardware:
DELUA at non standard addr, RA81, RL02
Moved boot RL02 to 11/70 with RSTS/E
Made bootable RA81 on 11/70
Untar:ed usr from
ftp://haba@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/file6.tar.gz
....And now the binaries from that tar file crash with "unknown system
call" However, the binaries distributed in the disk images work. Any
clues?
Harald.
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 23 07:55:25 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803222155.IAA08277(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: SCO processing the new licenses
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:55:25 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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Hi all,
Dion at SCO writes today:
We have about a dozen licenses here, all paid up and signed off.
So you should start receiving your PDP Unix licenses soon. He didn't say who
the first dozen were.
Cheers all,
Warren
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From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Mon
Mar 23 12:02:10 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
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Subject: Building sim tapes
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What you need to do is build a 'tape'
(using 'makesimtape' if you
need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
2.11BSD.
I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
find 'makesimtape'. I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
emulator. Where can I get a copy of this program?
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 23 14:31:19 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803230431.PAA09463(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Building sim tapes
To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:31:19 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803230302.WAA21783(a)renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at
"Mar 22, 98 10:02:10 pm"
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In article by Ed G.:
What you need
to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape' if you
need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
2.11BSD.
I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
find 'makesimtape'. I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
emulator. Where can I get a copy of this program? From "Steven M. Schultz"
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Mar 23 14:38:48 1998
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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:38:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199803230438.UAA27736(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Building sim tapes
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
It's in /usr/src/sys/pdpstand. Look in file7.tar.gz from the 2.11 part
of the Distributions and it should be somewhere in there.
makesimtape is a hacked up version of 'maketape', the syntax and data
file are the same so if you know how to use 'maketape' to create
bootable tapes you're all set.
The program is short enough I'll include it here. It should compile
and run with minimal tweeking on any 'BSD'ish UNIX system.
Steven
-----------------------
/*
* @(#)makesimtape.c 2.0 (2.11BSD) 1997/8/7
* Hacked 'maketape.c' to write a file in a format suitable for
* use with Bob Supnik's PDP-11 simulator (V2.3) emulated tape
* driver.
*
* NOTE: a PDP-11 has to flip the shorts within the long when writing out
* the record size. Seems a PDP-11 is neither a little-endian
* machine nor a big-endian one.
*/
#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>
#define MAXB 30
char buf[MAXB * 512];
char name[50];
long recsz, flipped, trl();
int blksz;
int mt, fd, cnt;
struct iovec iovec[3];
struct iovec tmark[2];
void usage();
main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char *argv[];
{
int i, j = 0, k = 0, zero = 0;
register char *outfile = NULL, *infile = NULL;
FILE *mf;
struct stat st;
while ((i = getopt(argc, argv, "i:o:")) != EOF)
{
switch (i)
{
case 'o':
outfile = optarg;
break;
case 'i':
infile = optarg;
break;
default:
usage();
/* NOTREACHED */
}
}
if (!outfile || !infile)
usage();
/* NOTREACHED */
/*
* Stat the outfile and make sure it either 1) Does not exist, or
* 2) Exists but is a regular file.
*/
if (stat(outfile, &st) != -1 && !(S_ISREG(st.st_mode)))
errx(1, "outfile must either not exist or be a regular file");
/* NOTREACHED */
mt = open(outfile, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0600);
if (mt < 0)
err(1, "Can not create %s", outfile);
/* NOTREACHED */
mf = fopen(infile, "r");
if (!mf)
err(1, "Can not open %s", infile);
/* NOTREACHED*/
tmark[0].iov_len = sizeof (long);
tmark[0].iov_base = (char *)&zero;
while (1)
{
if ((i = fscanf(mf, "%s %d", name, &blksz))== EOF)
exit(0);
if (i != 2) {
fprintf(stderr,"Help! Scanf didn't read 2 things (%d)\n", i);
exit(1);
}
if (blksz <= 0 || blksz > MAXB)
{
fprintf(stderr, "Block size %u is invalid\n", blksz);
exit(1);
}
recsz = blksz * 512; /* convert to bytes */
iovec[0].iov_len = sizeof (recsz);
#ifdef pdp11
iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&flipped;
#else
iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&recsz;
#endif
iovec[1].iov_len = (int)recsz;
iovec[1].iov_base = buf;
iovec[2].iov_len = iovec[0].iov_len;
iovec[2].iov_base = iovec[0].iov_base;
if (strcmp(name, "*") == 0)
{
if (writev(mt, tmark, 1) < 0)
warn(1, "writev of pseudo tapemark failed");
k++;
continue;
}
fd = open(name, 0);
if (fd < 0)
err(1, "Can't open %s for reading", name);
/* NOTREACHED */
printf("%s: block %d, file %d\n", name, j, k);
/*
* we pad the last record with nulls
* (instead of the bell std. of padding with trash).
* this allows you to access text files on the
* tape without garbage at the end of the file.
* (note that there is no record length associated
* with tape files)
*/
while ((cnt=read(fd, buf, (int)recsz)) == (int)recsz)
{
j++;
#ifdef pdp11
flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
if (writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
err(1, "writev #1");
/* NOTREACHED */
}
if (cnt > 0)
{
j++;
bzero(buf + cnt, (int)recsz - cnt);
#ifdef pdp11
flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
if (writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
err(1, "writev #2");
/* NOTREACHED */
}
close(fd);
}
/*
* Write two tape marks to simulate EOT
*/
writev(mt, tmark, 1);
writev(mt, tmark, 1);
}
long
trl(l)
long l;
{
union {
long l;
short s[2];
} foo;
register short x;
foo.l = l;
x = foo.s[0];
foo.s[0] = foo.s[1];
foo.s[1] = x;
return(foo.l);
}
void
usage()
{
fprintf(stderr, "usage: makesimtape -o outfilefile -i inputfile\n");
exit(1);
}
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What you need to do is build a 'tape'
(using 'makesimtape' if you
need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
find 'makesimtape'. I couldn't find it among the source of Bob's
emulator. Where can I get a copy of this program? From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 23 15:00:45 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803230500.QAA09569(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Where ISN'T the PUPS Archive (was building sim tapes)
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:00:45 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803230438.UAA27736(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz"
at "Mar 22, 98 08:38:48 pm"
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> From: "Ed G."
<edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
>
> > What you need to do is build a 'tape' (using 'makesimtape'
if you
> > need to use Bob's emulator) from ALL of the files in Distributions/ucb/
>
> I've looked everywhere I can think of on the PUPS site, but couldn't
> find 'makesimtape'. I couldn't find it among the source of
Bob's
> emulator. Where can I get a copy of this program?
It's in /usr/src/sys/pdpstand. Look in
file7.tar.gz from the 2.11 part
of the Distributions and it should be somewhere in there.
Ah, I should point out to the readers of the mailing list:
The PUPS Archive is NOT what you get by going to
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
as anonymous. Obviously, the archive has to be password
protected, and so the anonymous ftp on Minnie isn't the Archive.
I suspect Ed has been walking thru the anonymous area, which is why he
could only find Bob Supnik's emulator.
Anyway, Steven has provided a solution. Steven, could you put in
#ifdefs for particular endian architectures???
Cheers,
Warren
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From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Tue
Mar 24 11:49:02 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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Subject: What's magtape good for anyway?
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The program is short enough I'll include it here.
It should compile
and run with minimal tweeking on any 'BSD'ish UNIX system.
Thanks!
I was just a plain old user during my college days, so I've never had
much contact with magtape.
But since magtape seems the easiest way to get data into and out of
Bob Supnik's emulator, I've been fooling around with (simulated)
tape a lot lately.
To me (or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about) it seems
like magtape has a number of deficiencies:
No filenames or directory structure: just an ordered series of
bytes. Which would seem to imply that people must've used tar *a lot*
to get these services. True?
Padding of files to a multiple of the block size. Yuck! If I have
a 312 byte file, I do not want to save it and then retrieve a (to my
eyes anyway) different 512 byte file which has been padded with
200 bytes I didn't put there. Did this padding of files ever have
any bad effects?
So I was wondering, what *did* people use magtape for on these old
Unix systems?
Here are my guesses:
Bad Old Days What we use now
================================
Archival storage (tape, CD-Roms, Zip drives, floppies)
Application Software distribution (WWW, CD-Roms, ftp, email,
floppies)
System software distribution (CD-Roms, ftp)
Backups (tape)
Transfering a little data (Floppies, email).
Transfering a lot of data (CD-Roms, Zip drives, ftp, tape)
Have I left any significant use for tape out?
Ed G.
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue
Mar 24 14:34:54 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803240434.PAA11927(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:34:54 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803240249.VAA27961(a)renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at
"Mar 23, 98 09:49:02 pm"
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In article by Ed G.:
So I was wondering, what *did* people use magtape for
on these old
Unix systems?
Add another one: Xmas decorations.
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue
Mar 24 14:45:16 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803240445.PAA11961(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Moving PDP-11 disk images to disk
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:45:16 +1100 (EST)
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All,
I've had a few people ask the question:
I have a PDP-11, you have disk and tape images for old Unixes. How do get
the images onto my actual disk/tape so I can install Unix?
If anybody has sucessfully done:
image -> tape -> install to disk -> working PDP-11 UNIX
image -> install to disk -> working PDP-11 UNIX
or any other variant, using any intermediate system (e.g KSERVE & RT-11),
could they please drop me a note with some _details_ of what they did.
I'd like to add this to the FAQ, as I suspect this is going to be a
popular question as people receive their SCO UNIX licenses.
Thanks in advance!
Warren
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From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Tue Mar
24 14:58:44 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803240458.AA14216(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:58:44 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199803240249.VAA27961(a)renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at Mar 23,
98 09:49:02 pm
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To me (or maybe I just don't know what I'm
talking about) it seems
like magtape has a number of deficiencies:
No filenames or directory structure: just an ordered series of
bytes. Which would seem to imply that people must've used tar *a lot*
to get these services. True?
Most (non-Unix) minicomputer OS's had built-in support for
ANSI labeled files, which do have filenames (and header bytes to
specify record sizes and number of records). Folks who used Unix
either made their own labeled tape facility (e.g. Ultrix and
OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and a lot of hard work.
The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the Unix filesystem
really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating. The rest of
the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Wed
Mar 25 00:31:48 1998
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From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199803241431.JAA09618(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:31:48 -0500 (EST)
Cc: edgee(a)cyberpass.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <9803240458.AA14216(a)alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at
Mar 23, 98 08:58:44 pm
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility
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Now far for me to be defending 9-track tapes on UNIX systems, and I'm
the first to admit I've not encountered *all* the various methods used
everywhere to write tapes, but it took no time for me years ago to write
a program that would pull blocks off a tape (by trying to read the max
limit block size) and recording the actual block size read. Oddly enough
when matched with a program that read this "raw format" info, it was sure
trivial to reproduce the tape... but I'm sure I'm missing something.
Luckily on my UNIX systems I am unencumbered by someone else's potentially
proprietary or undocumented "file structure" - both by the system and
by the media. -- Ken
| From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Tue Mar 24 00:09:12 1998
|
| Most (non-Unix) minicomputer OS's had built-in support for
| ANSI labeled files, which do have filenames (and header bytes to
| specify record sizes and number of records). Folks who used Unix
| either made their own labeled tape facility (e.g. Ultrix and
| OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and a lot of hard work.
|
| The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the Unix filesystem
| really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating. The rest of
| the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!
|
| Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed
Mar 25 07:18:39 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803242118.IAA00742(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:18:39 +1100 (EST)
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All,
I spent some time last night adding stuff to my virtual tape server.
I have to test it today, but essentially:
Box with serial line PDP-11 with
tape server -----------> uncompress & dd
+ disk_image.Z (bootable)
In other words, you can boot to an uncompressing dd, and suck over
any disk image, without actually requiring an operating system.
With this approach, you obtain an existing disk image that will work,
or you use one of the PDP-11 emulators to create a disk image with a
Unix kernel configured for your system. You then compress it, and
suck/splat it to your real PDP-11 via the serial line.
Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12 compressed files. Can
someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.
Cheers all,
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed
Mar 25 10:23:05 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803250023.LAA01449(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Compress Disk Image Install works
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:23:05 +1100 (EST)
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Well,
I'm currently sucking a .Z compress RK05 disk image over a 9600 baud
DL11 port; it seems to be working. Pity -b12 gives such low compression, but
I guess any saving at 9600 baud is worth it.
Warren
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From "Steven M. Schultz"
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Mar 25 10:24:33 1998
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From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
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Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
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Warren -
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12
compressed files. Can
someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.
If my understanding of 'gzip' is right then the alogrithm works on
32kb blocks of data and the '-N' level has little to do with the
memory consumption. Rather, as the -1, ... -9 level increases the
amount of work that gzip puts into the compression increases (the
difference between -6 and -9 is only a few percent in final output
size but the length of time taken is quite a bit higher).
Of concern would be getting the gzip sources to compile with a non-ANSI
compiler on a non-32bit machine (sizeof (long) == sizeof(int) is an
endemic assumption I wager). Well, ok - there is the worry that
you will grow old waiting for it to compress something ;-) Gzip is a
lot more cpu intensive than compress.
Steven
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed
Mar 25 10:32:56 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:32:56 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803250024.QAA14701(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz"
at "Mar 24, 98 04:24:33 pm"
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In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> Warren -
>
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
>
> > Now, what I've currently got will cope with -b12 compressed files. Can
> > someone tell me if it would be feasible to fit a gunzip into 64K?? Even
> > if it could only cope with gzip -1 files.
>
> If my understanding of 'gzip' is right then the alogrithm works on
> 32kb blocks of data and the '-N' level has little to do with the
> memory consumption. Rather, as the -1, ... -9 level increases the
> amount of work that gzip puts into the compression increases (the
> difference between -6 and -9 is only a few percent in final output
> size but the length of time taken is quite a bit higher).
>
> Of concern would be getting the gzip sources to compile with a non-ANSI
> compiler on a non-32bit machine (sizeof (long) == sizeof(int) is an
> endemic assumption I wager). Well, ok - there is the worry that
> you will grow old waiting for it to compress something ;-) Gzip is a
> lot more cpu intensive than compress.
I'm only thinking of implementing gunzip on the PDP-11. I've got
uncompress -b12 running standalone right now, but gunzip would be a big
win: you gzip -9 on a 32-bit system (higher compression) and gunzip
on the PDP-11.
I just don't know if the gunzip would fit. Isn't there a gunzip for MS-DOS?
Surely we could leverage something from it?
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed
Mar 25 13:36:28 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803250336.OAA02126(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:36:28 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <m0yHgvc-000FlVC(a)bookworm.softway.com.au> from Peter Chubb at "Mar
25, 98 02:32:00 pm"
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In article by Peter Chubb:
In the Linux kernel, linux/lib/inflate.c and
arch/i386/boot/compressed/misc.c there's a set of gunzip routines that
could probably be adapted -- it runs in 16 bit mode (or ought
to). inflate.c is K&R C, so it should compile under V7; misc.c is
ANSI, but is small (just wrappers around gunzip) and in any case would
bneed changing to make a proper gunzip.
I'll see what I can do.
Peter C.
I think Steven described the main thing: will it run in 64K? I've popped
some mail off to Jean-loup, who was involved with writing gzip.
If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
standalone program with minimal effort: the V7 standalone library
provides open, close, read, write, printf, exit.
Cheers!
Warren
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From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25
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To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More on Disk Images -> Disk
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On Wed, 25 March 1998 at 14:36:28 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
In article by Peter Chubb:
I've done a little bit of playing around with gzip 1.2.4. It works on
16 bit MS-DOS platforms with a bit of tweaking, and I got all modules
to compile under 2.11BSD. Unfortunately, I ended up with a couple of
undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time to look at it
in more detail. On the whole, though, it looks as if it could be made
to work, maybe with a little tweaking.
In the Linux kernel, linux/lib/inflate.c and
arch/i386/boot/compressed/misc.c there's a set of gunzip routines that
could probably be adapted -- it runs in 16 bit mode (or ought
to). inflate.c is K&R C, so it should compile under V7; misc.c is
ANSI, but is small (just wrappers around gunzip) and in any case would
bneed changing to make a proper gunzip.
I'll see what I can do.
Peter C.
I think Steven described the main thing: will it run in 64K? I've popped
some mail off to Jean-loup, who was involved with writing gzip. If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then
move it to a
standalone program with minimal effort: the V7 standalone library
provides open, close, read, write, printf, exit.
Should be doable.
Greg
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From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Wed
Mar 25 13:48:33 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
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References: <199803240249.VAA27961(a)renoir.op.net> from "Ed G." at Mar 23,
98 09:49:02 pm
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OSF/1 "ltf") or just used "dd" and
a lot of hard work.
Is 'dd' Unix's primary tool for dealing with tape drives?
The lack of a record structure that is built-in to the
Unix filesystem
really makes things like tape transfers quite irritating. The rest of
the world isn't always just a stream of bytes!
There are certain areas of Unix that don't seem quite "done" to me.
Printing comes to mind (compare Unix benign neglect with Windows'
universal printer driver).
My understanding is that the Unix philosophy was to provide raw and
cooked drivers for all the devices. That way you could have access
to the hardware if you needed it, or cushy operating system services
if you didn't. Only the cooked mode for the tape devices doesn't
seem to do much more than the raw mode.
Seems to me that they could have easily added file system services
for tape drives to the kernel, just like they did for hard disks.
Was support for tape another area that the Wizzards at Bell Labs
neglected in favor of other more urgent needs?
Ed
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From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Wed
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
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Subject: Bug in Supnik's emulator?
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I don't know whether this is a bug in the factor (1) program (which
seems unlikely) or the emulator. Can someone try factoring numbers on
a real pdp-11 and tell me what happens?
On the emulator when I type in a number, factor prints out the
prime factors, followed by an infinite series of 17s. So, for
example
factor 6
2
3
17
17
....
I might add that I had bc running on the emulator calculate pi to
30 places and the results were identical with gnu bc on my linux box,
right down to the last digit. Very impressive.
Ed
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From "Steven M. Schultz"
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Mar 25 15:06:26 1998
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Greg -
I've done a little bit of playing around with
gzip 1.2.4. It works on
Are gzip and gunzip comparable in size? I'm curious if the
decompression is more 'address space' hungry than the act of
compression (or vice-versa).
16 bit MS-DOS platforms with a bit of tweaking, and I
got all modules
to compile under 2.11BSD. Unfortunately, I ended up with a couple of
undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time to look at it
Which symbols came up missing/undefined?
If we can get
gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then move it to a
Should be doable. From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25
15:24:01 1998
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Subject: Re: Bug in Supnik's emulator?
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On Tue, 24 March 1998 at 23:48:33 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
I don't know whether this is a bug in the factor
(1) program (which
seems unlikely) or the emulator. Can someone try factoring numbers on
a real pdp-11 and tell me what happens?
On the emulator when I type in a number, factor prints out the
prime factors, followed by an infinite series of 17s. So, for
example
factor 6
2
3
17
17
....
I would be very surprised if this was a bug in the emulator.
In any case, I tried it on the begemot emulator, running 2.11BSD:
[55] root--> /usr/games/factor 6
2
3
[56] root-->
Greg
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From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25
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On Tue, 24 March 1998 at 21:06:26 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> Greg -
>
> I've done a little bit of playing around with
gzip 1.2.4. It works on
>
> Are gzip and gunzip comparable in size?
They're links to the same executable.
I'm curious if the
decompression is more 'address space' hungry than the act of
compression (or vice-versa).
I haven't looked at the process images on systems on which they run.
I suspect it wouldn't relate directly to 16 bit platforms anyway,
since they have a slightly modified algorithm.
16 bit MS-DOS
platforms with a bit of tweaking, and I got all modules
to compile under 2.11BSD. Unfortunately, I ended up with a couple of
undefined references on linking, and I haven't had time to look at it
Which symbols came up missing/undefined? If we can get gunzip running in 64K on V7, I can then
move it to a
Should be doable. From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25
15:47:54 1998
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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:17:54 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: PDP UNIX Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not encouraging.
It would appear that the undefined references are undefined because
they refer to data which is too large. Here's the preprocessor
output:
uch inbuf[ 0x8000 + 64 ];
uch outbuf[ 16384 +2048 ];
ush d_buf[ 0x8000 ];
uch window[ 2*0x8000 ];
# 194 "gzip.c"
ush prev[ 1<<(16-1)];
ush tab_prefix1[ 1<<(16-1)];
uch and ush are uchar and ushort respectively. Obviously there's no
way of fitting this into a 64 kB address space. Possibly there's a
way of shortening the buffers, but it would take more time than I have
right now. Sorry for raising your hopes.
There are other zip-compatible programs out there, such as unzip.
Maybe somebody should look into them.
Greg
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From John Holden
<johnh(a)psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Mar 25 16:00:21 1998
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Subject: Re: What's magtape good for anyway?
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There were several tape handling programs that were standand from edition 5
onwards, including tap, tp, dtp, itp, tar and cpio. The only major tape standard
around at the time (other than IBM) was ANSI, and several programs (not from
Bell) were available to handle these. The ANSI tape structure was very
inefficient with tape usage, since it used small record sizes and lots
of tape marks. TAR did a better job (for Unix) and only lacked labels
to name the tape.
Putting tape filesystem handling into the kernel was definately against the
original 'small is beautiful' philosophy. In any case, tape handling was
very easy via the raw interface.
As a side issue, Plan 9 has the ability to mount a tape as part of the
namespace and only reads the file contents if the file is opened.
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From Peter Chubb <peterc(a)softway.com.au> Wed Mar
25 17:43:00 1998
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Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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>>>> "Greg" == Greg Lehey
<grog(a)lemis.com> writes:
Greg> OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not
Greg> encouraging. It would appear that the undefined references are
Greg> undefined because they refer to data which is too large. Here's
Greg> the preprocessor output:
Greg> uch inbuf[ 0x8000 + 64 ]; uch outbuf[ 16384 +2048 ]; ush
Greg> d_buf[ 0x8000 ]; uch window[ 2*0x8000 ]; # 194 "gzip.c"
You need to decrease the window size -- try setting it to 8k (instead
of 32k)
There should be a
#define WSIZE 0x8000
somewhere.
It may be worth playing with a decompress only version -- compression
will take more space than decompression (you need two windows rather
than one, for a start). inbuf can be smaller, too. Try 512 bytes to
match the disc record size.
Peter C
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From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Mar 25
17:11:36 1998
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To: Peter Chubb <peterc(a)softway.com.au>
Cc: PDP UNIX Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: gzip on PDP-11: not so simple
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On Wed, 25 March 1998 at 17:43:00 +1000, Peter Chubb wrote:
> >>>> "Greg" == Greg Lehey
<grog(a)lemis.com> writes:
>
> Greg> OK, I've found the problems with gzip, and they're not
> Greg> encouraging. It would appear that the undefined references are
> Greg> undefined because they refer to data which is too large. Here's
> Greg> the preprocessor output:
>
> Greg> uch inbuf[ 0x8000 + 64 ]; uch outbuf[ 16384 +2048 ]; ush
> Greg> d_buf[ 0x8000 ]; uch window[ 2*0x8000 ]; # 194 "gzip.c"
>
> You need to decrease the window size -- try setting it to 8k (instead
> of 32k)
>
> There should be a
> #define WSIZE 0x8000
> somewhere.
Correct. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. Here's the
definition:
#ifndef WSIZE
# define WSIZE 0x8000 /* window size--must be a power of two, and */
#endif /* at least 32K for zip's deflate method */
It may be worth playing with a decompress only version
-- compression
will take more space than decompression (you need two windows rather
than one, for a start).
Yes, that was really what I was thinking of doing with unzip, rather
than excising the unzip part from gunzip.
inbuf can be smaller, too. Try 512 bytes to match the
disc record
size.
Sure, once I get into serious modifications I can try a number of
things. The trouble is, I just don't have the time. I thought it was
worth 15 minutes to see what it would do, and the first attempts
looked encouraging. Unfortunately, the second attempts didn't :-(
Greg
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