15 Dec
2021
15 Dec
'21
2:44 p.m.
Hi TUHS folks!
After having reincarnated ratfor, I am wondering about Stuart Feldman's
efl (extended fortran language). It was a real compiler that let you
define structs, and generated more or less readable Fortran code.
I have the impression that it was pretty cool, but that it just didn't
catch on. So:
- Did anyone here ever use it personally?
- Is my impression that it didn't catch on correct? Or am I ignorant?
Thoughts etc. welcome. :-)
Thanks,
Arnold
15 Dec
15 Dec
10:25 p.m.
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 3:48 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
- Is my impression that it didn't catch on
correct? Or am I ignorant?
My sense after the fact (I wasn't there and could only see the published
stuff) is that EFL couldn't compete with the f77 (later f2c)
compiler, which came out at about the same time. Because the EFL compiler
parses the whole language, unlike Ratfor, it can't cope with extensions to
Fortran 66+, so it is stuck in the deep past. Ratfor "does not know [much]
Fortran", so if you want to use some new-style declarations or '77-or-later
`format' specifiers in Ratfor code, you're cool. (Although by now Fortran
probably does everything Ratfor does, although in a much less C-ish way.)
16 Dec
16 Dec
11:56 p.m.
I'm late to the party here. Although I'm a gray hair, I didn't start using
UNIX until the early '80s, and though I've seen, and been curious about
efl, I've never used it. Fortran 4 was my first high-level language in
college in the '70s.
That said, I do remember efl being on an early PC based UNIX - Microport
SVR2. On later Microport UNIXen it was gone, but I can't remember whether
it disappeared on SVR3 or 4.
I currently play with 4.3BSD Quasijarus system on simh, which has efl. What
a fun system to play with! Maybe I'll give efl a try if I can find enough
docs to grok it.
Tom
----
Tom Manos
KO4ENQ
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 3:49 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
Hi TUHS folks!
After having reincarnated ratfor, I am wondering about Stuart Feldman's
efl (extended fortran language). It was a real compiler that let you
define structs, and generated more or less readable Fortran code.
I have the impression that it was pretty cool, but that it just didn't
catch on. So:
- Did anyone here ever use it personally?
- Is my impression that it didn't catch on correct? Or am I ignorant?
Thoughts etc. welcome. :-)
Thanks,
Arnold
17 Dec
17 Dec
4:38 a.m.
Not, trying to discourage anyone from messing with simh and one of the old
UNIX systems - looking at the past. But to be honest at this stage of the
game there is nothing in EFL that I know of that modern Fortran can not
do. And if you want to see how the world has progressed since F4, and you
have a Mac, Linux or Windows box -- the entire Intel compiler suite,
including their Fortran 2018 compatible system can be downloaded for free
-- Intel OneAPI HPC Toolkit Download
<https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/tools/oneapi/hpc-toolkit-download.html.>
This is the compiler many (most) supercomputer codes use - why is a good
COFF discussion ;-)
For the youngsters that never saw it, is a piece of F4 code [the Intel
compiler can still gork it BTW], which we call the 'Eklund Test' as Dave
Eklund was Mr. Fixed format for both DEC and Intel starting in the early
1970s until he retired 5 years ago [note Dave did not write this - came
from Europe but is now part of the Intel compiler test suite].
C This FORTRAN program may be compiled and run on a Norsk Data
C computer running SINTRAN and the FTN compiler. It uses only
C FORTRAN reserved words, and contains just one numerical
C constant, in a character string (a format specifier). When
C you run it, it prints a well known mathematical construct...
C
C Even FORTRAN is a block structured programming language:
C
PROGRAM
;PROGRAM;INTEGERIF,INTEGER,GOTO,IMPLICIT;REALREAL,DIMENSION,EXTERNA
AL,FORMAT,END;INTEGERLOGICAL;REALCOMPLEX,DATA,CALL,ASSIGN,CHARACTER
R;DOFORIF=INTEGER,INTEGER;ENDDO;INTEGER=IF+IF;GOTO=INTEGER*INTEGER*
*INTEGER*INTEGER-INTEGER-IF;CALLFUNCTION(IMPLICIT,REAL,DIMENSION,EX
XTERNAL,FORMAT,END,LOGICAL,COMPLEX,DATA,CALL,ASSIGN,CHARACTER);CALL
LSUBROUTINE(IMPLICIT,LOGICAL,GOTO,IF,INTEGER);END;SUBROUTINEFUNCTIO
ON(IMPLICIT,REAL,DIMENSION,EXTERNAL,FORMAT,END,LOGICAL,COMPLEX,DATA
A,CALL,ASSIGN,CHARACTER);RETURN;END;SUBROUTINESUBROUTINE(IMPLICIT,L
LOGICAL,GOTO,IF,INTEGER);INTEGERGOTO,IMPLICIT(GOTO),LOGICAL(GOTO),I
IF,INTEGER,EXTERNAL,RETURN;DOFOREXTERNAL=IF,GOTO;DOFORRETURN=INTEGE
ER,EXTERNAL-IF;IMPLICIT(RETURN)=LOGICAL(RETURN)+LOGICAL(RETURN-IF);
;ENDDO;IMPLICIT(IF)=IF;IMPLICIT(EXTERNAL)=IF;DOFORRETURN=IF,GOTO-EX
XTERNAL;WRITE(IF,'(''$
'')');ENDDO;DOFORRETURN=IF,EXTERNAL;WRITE(I
IF,'(''$''I4)')IMPLICIT(RETURN);ENDDO;WRITE(IF,'(
/)');DOFORRETURN=
=IF,GOTO;LOGICAL(RETURN)=IMPLICIT(RETURN);ENDDO;ENDDO;END
On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 12:57 PM Tom Manos <tom.manos(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I'm late to the party here. Although I'm a
gray hair, I didn't start using
UNIX until the early '80s, and though I've seen, and been curious about
efl, I've never used it. Fortran 4 was my first high-level language in
college in the '70s.
That said, I do remember efl being on an early PC based UNIX - Microport
SVR2. On later Microport UNIXen it was gone, but I can't remember whether
it disappeared on SVR3 or 4.
I currently play with 4.3BSD Quasijarus system on simh, which has efl.
What a fun system to play with! Maybe I'll give efl a try if I can find
enough docs to grok it.
Tom
----
Tom Manos
KO4ENQ
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 3:49 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
Hi TUHS folks!
After having reincarnated ratfor, I am wondering about Stuart Feldman's
efl (extended fortran language). It was a real compiler that let you
define structs, and generated more or less readable Fortran code.
I have the impression that it was pretty cool, but that it just didn't
catch on. So:
- Did anyone here ever use it personally?
- Is my impression that it didn't catch on correct? Or am I ignorant?
Thoughts etc. welcome. :-)
Thanks,
Arnold
5:41 a.m.
Clem,
I agree with everything you said.
I think the operative word here is "playing". I'm not aware of anyone who
would use either 4.3BSD or efl for real work. It's just fun to mess around
with some things from the somewhat distant past that we missed along the
way.
For me, right now, that's BSD, which I used at Naval Postgraduate School in
the mid-80s, but never after. After I left grad school, all I was exposed
to was SVR2-4 and then OSF/1 and then Solaris from the mid 90's on. BSD is
fun.
Tom
----
Tom Manos
Vivat Jesus
KO4ENQ
On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 12:56 PM Tom Manos <tom.manos(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I'm late to the party here. Although I'm a
gray hair, I didn't start using
UNIX until the early '80s, and though I've seen, and been curious about
efl, I've never used it. Fortran 4 was my first high-level language in
college in the '70s.
That said, I do remember efl being on an early PC based UNIX - Microport
SVR2. On later Microport UNIXen it was gone, but I can't remember whether
it disappeared on SVR3 or 4.
I currently play with 4.3BSD Quasijarus system on simh, which has efl.
What a fun system to play with! Maybe I'll give efl a try if I can find
enough docs to grok it.
Tom
----
Tom Manos
KO4ENQ
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 3:49 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
Hi TUHS folks!
After having reincarnated ratfor, I am wondering about Stuart Feldman's
efl (extended fortran language). It was a real compiler that let you
define structs, and generated more or less readable Fortran code.
I have the impression that it was pretty cool, but that it just didn't
catch on. So:
- Did anyone here ever use it personally?
- Is my impression that it didn't catch on correct? Or am I ignorant?
Thoughts etc. welcome. :-)
Thanks,
Arnold
1102
days inactive
1103
days old
4 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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arnold＠skeeve.com -
Clem Cole -
John Cowan -
Tom Manos