"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote: Telling between pre-Reno and post-Reno is trivial. If you see directories like /usr/ucb, /usr/doc, /usr/man, binaries in /etc and in /usr/lib, and so on, it's pre-Reno. If you see all docs, manpages, etc. moved into /usr/share, /usr/ucb gone, no binaries in /etc or in /usr/lib, strange critters appearing like /sbin, /usr/sbin, /usr/libexec, and /usr/libdata, it's post-Reno. Distinguishing between plain-4.3-based and Tahoe-based non-UCB systems can be tough, and, frankly, pointless. Aside from hardware issues, the noticeable differences between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe are the location of source-form manpages (/usr/man/man[1-8] on 4.3, /usr/src/man/man[1-8] on Tahoe), MX record support in Sendmail (present in Tahoe but not in 4.3), and the Olson timezone implementation, i.e., that big pile of zoneinfo files (again present in Tahoe but not in 4.3). The reason exercises like this are pointless is because when some brave vendor takes BSD sources and tries to make a vendor release from them, they usually have their own mind about what the system should look like, different from CSRG's. Vendors often take different pieces from different systems on a subjective basis. A vendor release can have the feature set of one system and the look and feel of another. For example, Ultrix V4.0 has the classical pre-Reno look and feel, but yet is POSIXized to about the same extent as Reno. Thus the blurb above about telling between pre-Reno and post-Reno systems refers to the look and feel of a system, not to its feature set. The plain 4.3 vs. Tahoe distinction doesn't really hold in vendor systems either. Ultrix V4.0 has MX record support in Sendmail, but its man mechanism is plain 4.3 vintage. Don't remember if there were zoneinfo files there or not. /var also has an interesting story. In the BSD line it appears in Reno, but it originates in SunOS and Ultrix, systems with pre-Reno look and feel on which a number of directories were moved from /usr to the newly-created /var. Thus on 4.3 or 4.3-Tahoe you have /usr/spool/mail, on SunOS and Ultrix you have /var/spool/mail, and on Reno and later you have /var/mail. Oh, I forgot to mention that the filesystem format changed slightly and disk label support was added between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe. Again this is certainly meaningless for vendor systems because they always tweak the filesystem format themselves and have their own disk label implementations that are not compatible with the one in Tahoe and later BSD releases. The Tahoe tape shipped in the summer of 1988, but of course the work at CSRG was going all the time. Correct. Good luck. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 will run like a charm on it. If the force is really with you, you may even be able to run it with the graphical console, but if not, it's trivial to pull the QDSS boards out and run the machine as a standard VAX. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA20397 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:11:43 +1100 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA20392 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:11:34 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27002; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:05:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199812152005.PAA27002(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981215141724.4474C-100000(a)smithfield.transarc.com> from Pat Barron at "Dec 15, 98 02:34:00 pm" To: pat(a)transarc.com Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:05:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk OK. Oh, now that might be interesting. Maybe the old AOS BSD will roll again! All I could find was one more recent fellow that had a ROMP board and a set of BSD tapes for it, but he had not apparently gotten it running. Also, most of the original folks seemed to be gone. Most everyone I have run into has wanted to run AIX on the RT hardware instead of BSD. I am beginning to feel like the odd man out if I shun AIX on the RT. Gee, that make 3 extant boards and 1 real live machine! Neato! Have you had yours up with a BSD? Anyone for a BSD rolling party? Sounds like a little interest, maybe? I wish Blue would donate that to the PUPS archives, yup, yup, yup. That would be a nice gesture, and ought to be worth some PR brownies for them. Technically, would that not fall under the Ancient Unix, umbrella, anyway? That would be a legalese mumbo jumbo to sort out, though, and not my forte. Bob Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA20667 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:17:30 +1100 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA20662 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:17:22 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA27141; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:10:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199812152110.QAA27141(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks In-Reply-To: <199812152005.BAA10743(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> from Michael Sokolov at "Dec 15, 98 08:04:56 pm" To: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET (Michael Sokolov) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:10:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk ..... Lotsa neat info for us lesser newbie types. My main reason for asking was to try to place the AOS historically. It is definitely pre-Reno, and the manpages are in user/man/manX as to source pages. I was thinking it had timezones, though. The compiler was still pcc, and a custom Hi-Tech C thing called hc. Granted, but the AOS system felt very unmodified, subjectively. So, I was not thinking it was almost Reno, or somewhere close to that. Knowing anything of the detailed structure helps me to place it developmentally. OK, the AOS seemed to have a disklabel, but of a different format from later releases. fsck has a field day if an update to one of the later after-AOS builds is installed. What would one use to differentiate the Lite from earlier systems? The last build was in the 4xx range, and dated 1996, IFF I am remembering right. It is running gcc at the 2.5.8 level. Are there key file system dates or revision levels that would help to indicate how late it is? ...... It is so ugly, noone in their normal PCish minds locally should bid on it. So, maybe I will have a chance at it in a reasonable sort of way. The machine is just the main tower box, and nothing else. It does have a TK70 tape, but I was unable to open it up on the pallet and see what was inside. There were no other bits and pieces with it. I was thinking I could run it with a VT100ish terminal of some sort, as a bare-bones system in the basement. How would the front/back cover open up, so I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside? If it has been gutted, I would probably pass, but if it was mostly there, it might be worth looking at. Thanks! Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20871 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:16:32 +1100 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20866 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:16:26 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06715 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:17:01 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199812152217.JAA06715(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:17:01 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, Goodness, that was a lot of email :-) I spent the night playing with the Graphviz tools, and my first drawing of the UNIX family tree is now on the web page I mentioned yesterday http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/ I've fixed the broken HTML so that Lynx will read the pages. I haven't had a chance to convert all the version/date information that was sent in, and I probably won't get to it before January. Mind you, if people convert it into the file format I'm using, and mail it to me, then it will be included immediately :-) Anyway, thanks for all the feedback, and I'll get to it eventually. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20983 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:32:08 +1100 (EST) Received: from harrier.Uznet.NET (harrier.ml.org [193.220.92.194]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20978 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:31:55 +1100 (EST) Received: from dosdev (pm8-123.dial.qual.net [205.212.2.123]) by harrier.Uznet.NET (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA10882 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:31:16 +0500 Message-Id: <199812152231.DAA10882(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Date: 15 Dec 1998 22:31:08 GMT To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote: This is definitely plain 4.3 vintage, not Tahoe vintage. This does not necessarily mean that other parts of the system are straight 4.3, though, they could easily be Tahoe vintage. What version of Sendmail does it ship with? Well, every UNIX system has some kind of timezone system, the question is what kind. On plain 4.3 it just remembers "OK, I'm 8 hours behind Greenwich" or so. On Tahoe it has a pile of zoneinfo files trying to describe the timezone and daylight saving time rules for every city in the world. I think these files are in /etc/zoneinfo, or maybe /usr/lib/zoneinfo, something like that. Well, that's good. Then why don't you take its source and the sources for 4.3, 4.3-Tahoe, or whatever you suspect it is, and see for yourself? In my directory on minnie (Distributions/4bsd) you can find the full sources for 4.3 (both plain and Rev 2), but unfortunately not for Tahoe (Rick Copeland hasn't been able to read that part of the Tahoe tape due to media defects). However, the CSRG Archives CD-ROMs have the full sources for everything, including Tahoe. Is the command actually called disklabel, or is it called something like format or chpt? (This is how it's called under SunOS and Ultrix, respectively, and they are indeed incompatible.) If you are trying to tell between 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite, don't bother. If you system boots, it can't be Lite. "Lite" means that there are no binaries, only sources, and the sources won't build because about one half of them is deleted. Now, it's true that there had been some changes to the source tree between the 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite releases. If you want to see if these changes have been incorporated into your vendor release, check the Sendmail version number. For 4.4BSD it's 8.1. For 4.4BSD-Lite it's 8.6.something aka 8.7 Beta Rev something. Since I generally don't do gcc, I don't know anything about its version numbers. However, just because it's gcc the system has to belong to Class 3. This is my own classification. Class 1 is True UNIX(R). Everything I develop under Quasijarus Project will also belong to Class 1. It includes everything from the original PDP-11 UNIX to 4.3BSD-Tahoe. Class 2 is 4.3BSD-Reno. In some respects it's still True UNIX (the compiler is pcc and the kernel is 90% pure), but in other respects it's fallen (the directory hierarchy is turned upside down and the evil spirit of POSIX starts to creep in). Class 3 is Net/2, 4.4BSD-*, and Free/Net/OpenBSD. These are 100% fallen (the evil spirit POSIX runs the sinful world, VAX support in the kernel permanently broken, the compiler is gcc). What else do you need? The disks are internal, and you do have a tape drive. In fact, not just "a" tape drive, but a TK70, one of the best. Unfortunately it can't write TK50 tapes, but it can read them, and its native format is 3 times denser than the TK50 one and much faster too. Sure! You say it's badged as a VAXstation, so you'll probably need to pull two or three boards out to make it use the serial console. What do you mean "bare-bones"? It's a VAX! What can be more powerful? It has a KA650 CPU, which is not bad at all (2.8 VUPs), and you can upgrade it to a KA655 (3.8 VUPs) or KA660 (5 VUPs) with a single board swap (the memory is the same for all). KA650/655 is already supported by 4.3BSD-Reno and Ultrix, and will be supported by 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 as soon as I release it. KA660 is not supported yet, but it will only take a dozen lines or so to add this support. There is nothing interesting in the back. The front door opens trivially, just push the handle and swing the door open. You'll a 12-slot backplane with a cover over each slot. The covers are supposed to have labels on them. Reading them from right to left, you should see the CPU (KA650-BA), memory (some variant of MS650), Ethernet (DELQA-SA), a disk controller (probably KDA50 or KFQSA), and the TK70 controller (TQK70). If all these pieces are there, you are all set! Of course if there is more stuff there you are even more lucky. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21142 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:12:56 +1100 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21137 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:12:47 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA27350; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:06:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199812152306.SAA27350(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: VAXen funzies.... (gotta start somewhere). In-Reply-To: <199812152231.DAA10882(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> from Michael Sokolov at "Dec 15, 98 10:31:08 pm" To: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET (Michael Sokolov) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:06:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This one does not have a handle that I can find. There is a sliding door over the tape drive, and then a plastic key sticks out the front of the panel kind of like the keylock on a pc. If that key is the handle, then, I will open it up tomorrow when I visit surplus again to pick up a postscript printer, and see what is there. If that key is not the handle, then it was not obvious what was on that side of the box that should be the ``handle'' to open it up. Bob Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21280 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:54:57 +1100 (EST) Received: from harrier.Uznet.NET (harrier.ml.org [193.220.92.194]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21274 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:54:42 +1100 (EST) Received: from dosdev (pm6-22.dial.qual.net [205.212.2.22]) by harrier.Uznet.NET (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA10978 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:54:21 +0500 Message-Id: <199812152354.EAA10978(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Date: 15 Dec 1998 23:54:10 GMT To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: VAXen funzies.... (gotta start somewhere). Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote: The sliding window (yes, the DEC docs call it a window and not a door) and the key are there to control access to the tape drive, to the disk drive control buttons, to the HALT button, to the power switch, and to the handle that opens the front door (the one you are looking for). The key has 3 positions: top. middle, and bottom. When the key is in the top position, the window cannot be lowered at all, and the machine is secure. When the key is in the middle position, the window can be lowered partially, and you can access the tape drive, the disk drive control buttons, and the halt button, but not the power switch or the front door handle. When the key is in the bottom position, the window can be lowered completely and you can access everything. Turn the key to the bottom position. Lower the window all the way down. Near the bottom of the opening you'll see the power switch and the handle I'm talking about. This handle moves horizontally (left and right). I don't have one of those boxes in front of me and I don't remember whether you need to push it to the left or to the right, but I'm sure you can figure it out experimentally. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA22380 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:26:03 +1100 (EST) Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22375 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:25:53 +1100 (EST) Received: from mail-out-2.tiac.net (mail-out-2.tiac.net [199.0.65.13]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA24172; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:25:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net) Received: from zach1.tiac.net (zach1.tiac.net [206.119.129.250]) by mail-out-2.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26527; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:26:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net) Received: (from jimc@localhost) by zach1.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA19173; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:25:34 -0500 From: "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net> Message-Id: <199812160525.AAA19173(a)zach1.tiac.net> Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram To: kahn(a)tholian.net (Joey KAHN) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:25:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: <36766225.6955995B(a)tholian.net> from "Joey KAHN" at Dec 15, 98 08:20:37 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says: Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc. Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated July 1986. - Jim -- James E. Carpenter E-Mail: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net 6 Munroe Drive Plainville, MA 02762-1108 ICBM: 42 00' 15"N 71 20' 00"W PGP: 7ADE9D99 Fingerprint: 8D AF 63 EC D3 51 14 3E F1 59 8A 68 32 63 3F 8E Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA24140 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:28:03 +1100 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA24134 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:27:53 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28340; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199812161520.KAA28340(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore? In-Reply-To: <199812160525.AAA19173(a)zach1.tiac.net> from "James E. Carpenter" at "Dec 16, 98 00:25:32 am" To: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net (James E. Carpenter) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST) Cc: kahn(a)tholian.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable. Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials? Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1, though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in QIC-11 or QIC-24 format? Thanks Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA24206 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:35:36 +1100 (EST) Received: from fudge.uchicago.edu (fudge.uchicago.edu [128.135.136.68]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA24201 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:35:27 +1100 (EST) Received: (from eric@localhost) by fudge.uchicago.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA22901; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:33:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:33:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812161533.JAA22901(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> From: Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram In-Reply-To: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> References: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Organization: The University of Chicago Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Here are a few dates I was able to find, in the format from your web page: sysV Name: System V Date: 1983-01 Reference: System V Release Description, title page sysVr2 Name: System V Release 2 Date: 1984-04 Reference: System V manual for 3B2, title page sunos2 Name: SunOS 2.0 Date: 1985-05-15 Reference: SunOS 2.0 manual, title page sunos3 Name: SunOS 3.0 Date: 1986-02-17 Reference: SunOS 3.0 manual, title page pwb1.0 Name: PWB/UNIX 1.0 Date: 1977-07-1 Reference: /usr/news/pibs in the archived PWB distribution # prerelease test versions: 1977-06-6, 1977-06-13 eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA24733 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:01:55 +1100 (EST) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA24728 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:01:45 +1100 (EST) Received: from Corp.Sun.COM ([129.145.35.78]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id KAA15352; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:00:28 -0800 Received: from vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM by Corp.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id KAA18213; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:00:27 -0800 Received: from vrytekai (vrytekai [129.145.71.165]) by vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA02912; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:59:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812161759.JAA02912(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:59:44 -0800 (PST) From: Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> Reply-To: Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore? To: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net, rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu Cc: kahn(a)tholian.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: jVHzocTqqQz3Joe9NWAsQQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hey, Robert- do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day, and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3 ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the 4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases. --Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA24883 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:36:19 +1100 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA24878 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:36:10 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28899; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:29:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199812161829.NAA28899(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore? In-Reply-To: <199812161759.JAA02912(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> from Billy Stivers at "Dec 16, 98 09:59:44 am" To: alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:29:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net, kahn(a)tholian.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I think there is great potential in all of this. AS I UNDERSTAND IT..... Sun apparently gave the OK to a German archive site to put the the stuff on-line. That is, in fact, where I picked up my sun3 tapes to resurrect my old box. It only seems be be pre-sparc related 68000 based stuff. The details were given on the web site, and were discussed on one of the Sun newsfeeds. Try the http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ site, and it is explained there. The guy actually got Sun to OK it, as far as I know, but I have no idea of the exact legalese involved, but memory tells me it was Sun Germany that gave the go-ahead on it. The site may have moved to http://sun3arc.krupp.net, since I was thinking a move was in progress a couple of months back. I think I got to it via a link from www.sunhelp.com or www.sunfreeware.com. The idea occurred to me that IFF Sun has gone that far, we should check into putting the older releases there, too, as they may still exist. Also, perhaps, as they would fit under the Ancient Unix umbrella, I would think, then PUPS/UHS should likewise take an interest in such potential. I would be of the opinion that any of the pre-SysIII/SysV related stuff, in addition to the purist ATT/Berkeley releases ought to be put back for archival use, too, as it should be covered under the Ancient Unix umbrella. If I am too far off on that, let me know. I am but a very minor newbie bit player in all of this. Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA24923 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:50:29 +1100 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA24918 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:50:21 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA28957; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:43:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: <199812161843.NAA28957(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS Tapes for UHS archives????? In-Reply-To: <199812161759.JAA02912(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> from Billy Stivers at "Dec 16, 98 09:59:44 am" To: alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:43:43 -0500 (EST) Cc: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net, kahn(a)tholian.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk It would be fun to see some of Bill Joy's hacks....(:+}}..... I went to the archive site http://sun3arc.krupp.net and it attributes the permission to archive materials to a Mr. Knieriem of SUN Germany, Research and Education. One of the UHS folks might try to contact said Mr. Knieriem to see if adding some of our other early stuff would be feasible. The sun3arc site only has binaries, though. I would assume the PUPS/UHS archives might work out some kind of binary and source arrangement, perhaps? Someone other than the tailwagging newbie here, should persue this and see where it goes? Mebbie we has started somethin' 'ere, methinks....(:+}}..... Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA25126 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:45:26 +1100 (EST) Received: from coffee.corliss.net (erin(a)[12.7.121.245]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA25121 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:45:17 +1100 (EST) Received: from localhost (erin@localhost) by coffee.corliss.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA24022 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:47:39 -0800 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:47:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net> Reply-To: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: PDP-11/73 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981216113259.23904B-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk So get this... I downloaded the machine emulators package and the binaries for Unix version 7 from the PUPS ftp site, hoping that I could use it to create a bootable disk image to put on my PDP-11/73 that would run getty on one of the serial ports besides the console... I compiled the emulators on a Slackware Linux 2.0.30 machine, and they seemed to compile OK. From the emulator I followed the instructions for booting Unix 7. I had the following error every time I tried booting: Trap stack push abort, PC: 004567 (MOV R3,(SP)) Anybody have a clue why this is happening?