11 Jul
2024
11 Jul
'24
1:24 a.m.
The manpage for "cal" used to have the comment "Try September 1752"
(and
yes, I know why); it's no longer there, so when did it disappear? The
SysV fun police?
I remember it in Ed5 and Ed6, but can't remember when I last saw it.
Thanks.
-- Dave
11 Jul
11 Jul
1:44 a.m.
On Thursday, 11 July 2024 at 11:24:26 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
The manpage for "cal" used to have the
comment "Try September 1752" (and
yes, I know why); it's no longer there, so when did it disappear? The
SysV fun police?
I remember it in Ed5 and Ed6, but can't remember when I last saw it.
It's still mentioned in the latest version of FreeBSD:
-s country_code
Assume the switch from Julian to Gregorian Calendar at the date
associated with the country_code. If not specified, ncal tries
to guess the switch date from the local environment or falls back
to September 2, 1752. This was when Great Britain and her
colonies switched to the Gregorian Calendar.
It sounds like that's not the quote you're thinking of, though. I've
checked back as far as FreeBSD 1.0, which had a much simpler version
of cal. The man page states
The Gregorian Reformation is assumed to have occurred in 1752 on the
3rd of September. By this time, most countries had recognized the ref-
ormation (although a few did not recognize it until the early 1900's.)
Ten days following that date were eliminated by the reformation, so the
calendar for that month is a bit unusual.
Maybe you can find something more interesting in the TUHS archives.
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php
7:31 p.m.
On 2024-07-10 21:44, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote (in part):
On Thursday, 11 July 2024 at 11:24:26 +1000, Dave
Horsfall wrote:
[...]
The manpage for "cal" used to have the
comment "Try September 1752" (and
yes, I know why); it's no longer there, so when did it disappear? The
SysV fun police?
I remember it in Ed5 and Ed6, but can't remember when I last saw it.
It sounds like that's not the quote you're thinking of, though. I've
checked back as far as FreeBSD 1.0, which had a much simpler version
of cal. The man page states
The Gregorian Reformation is assumed to have occurred in 1752 on the
3rd of September. By this time, most countries had recognized the ref-
ormation (although a few did not recognize it until the early 1900's.)
Ten days following that date were eliminated by the reformation, so the
calendar for that month is a bit unusual.
Solaris 11 has this version:
NOTES
An unusual calendar is printed for September 1752. That is the
month 11 days were skipped to make up for lack of leap year
adjustments. To see this calendar, type:
cal 9 1752
S.
1:53 a.m.
On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 at 21:24, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
The manpage for "cal" used to have the
comment "Try September 1752" (and
yes, I know why); it's no longer there, so when did it disappear? The
SysV fun police?
I remember it in Ed5 and Ed6, but can't remember when I last saw it.
Thanks.
-- Dave
Looks like on the BSD side it disappeared between 4.3 Tahoe and Reno. It's
in research through v10. It's in SVR2; SVR4 modifies it to say "An unusual
calendar is printed for September 1752." I don't seem to have manpages
with either of the SVR3 source distributions that I have handy. So to
answer your basic question, it stayed around for quite a while.
-Henry
3:29 a.m.
On Wed, 10 Jul 2024, Henry Bent wrote:
Looks like on the BSD side it disappeared between 4.3
Tahoe and Reno.
It's in research through v10. It's in SVR2; SVR4 modifies it to say "An
unusual calendar is printed for September 1752." I don't seem to have
manpages with either of the SVR3 source distributions that I have
handy. So to answer your basic question, it stayed around for quite a
while.
Just what I wanted; many thanks. And I couldn't remember what SysV said,
but I did know that they changed it.
-- Dave
14 Jul
14 Jul
7:04 p.m.
At Wed, 10 Jul 2024 21:53:54 -0400, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [TUHS] Re: When did "man cal" lose the comment about 1752?
Looks like on the BSD side it disappeared between 4.3 Tahoe and Reno. It's
in research through v10. It's in SVR2; SVR4 modifies it to say "An unusual
calendar is printed for September 1752." I don't seem to have manpages
with either of the SVR3 source distributions that I have handy. So to
answer your basic question, it stayed around for quite a while.
System V Release 3.2 MRD says the same thing as SVR4:
An unusual calendar is printed for September 1752. That is
the month 11 days were skipped to make up for lack of leap
year adjustments. To see this calendar, type: "cal 9 1752"
The "BUGS" section remains the same as it was in 7th Edition.
In the CSRG SCCS files cal(1) was "updated" after the 4.3BSD release
with this comment:
src/usr.bin/cal/SCCS/s.cal.1
D 6.3 89/09/28 14:20:22 bostic 5 4 00042/00023/00009
MRs:
COMMENTS:
new version from Kim Letkeman (mitel!spock!kim(a)uunet.UU.NET)
The code was also updated at the same time:
src/usr.bin/cal/SCCS/s.cal.c
D 4.5 89/09/28 14:20:24 bostic 5 4 00222/00159/00043
MRs:
COMMENTS:
new version from Kim Letkeman (mitel!spock!kim(a)uunet.UU.NET)
This is of course a complete rewrite to give UCB the copyright.
--
Greg A. Woods <gwoods(a)acm.org>
Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods(a)robohack.ca>
Planix, Inc. <woods(a)planix.com> Avoncote Farms <woods(a)avoncote.ca>
9:15 p.m.
My instance of cal (MacOS 14.5) has this in the man page:
-s country_code
Assume the switch from Julian to Gregorian Calendar at the date
associated with the country_code. If not specified, ncal tries
to guess the switch date from the local environment or falls
back
to September 2, 1752. This was when Great Britain and her
colonies switched to the Gregorian Calendar.
Note that the switch to the Gregorian calendar happened at different times
in different countries. In Catholic-dominated countries it happened in
October of 1582. The English-speaking world, being Protestant-dominated,
waited until September of 1752 to adopt it.
=====
nygeek.net
mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home>
On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 9:25 PM Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
The manpage for "cal" used to have the
comment "Try September 1752" (and
yes, I know why); it's no longer there, so when did it disappear? The
SysV fun police?
I remember it in Ed5 and Ed6, but can't remember when I last saw it.
Thanks.
-- Dave
15 Jul
15 Jul
2 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 14, 2024 at 5:25 PM Marc Donner <marc.donner(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Note that the switch to the Gregorian calendar
happened at different times
in different countries. In Catholic-dominated countries it happened in
October of 1582. The English-speaking world, being Protestant-dominated,
waited until September of 1752 to adopt it.
And Russia didn't adopt the Gregorian calendar until 1918. IIRC the
Eastern
Orthodox churches still use the Julian calendar for scheduling
ecclesiastical events such as the date of Easter.
-Paul W.
6:21 p.m.
To be turbo pedantic, Russia adopted a different calendar in 1918.
Gregorian and Russian calendars will diverge in 4000 CE.
=====
nygeek.net
mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home>
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:00 AM Paul Winalski <paul.winalski(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2024 at 5:25 PM Marc Donner
<marc.donner(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Note that the switch to the Gregorian calendar
happened at different
times in different countries. In Catholic-dominated countries it happened
in October of 1582. The English-speaking world, being
Protestant-dominated, waited until September of 1752 to adopt it.
And Russia didn't adopt the Gregorian calendar until 1918. IIRC the
Eastern
Orthodox churches still use the Julian calendar for scheduling
ecclesiastical events such as the date of Easter.
-Paul W.
6:41 p.m.
Rats! There doesn't seem to be a file in the TZ Database for me to
set display to "Orthodox/Eastern"! Hard to believe Olson didn't
consider it!
5:44 p.m.
At Sun, 14 Jul 2024 17:15:53 -0400, Marc Donner <marc.donner(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [TUHS] Re: When did "man cal" lose the comment about 1752?
My instance of cal (MacOS 14.5) has this in the man page:
-s country_code
Assume the switch from Julian to Gregorian Calendar at the date
associated with the country_code. If not specified, ncal tries
to guess the switch date from the local environment or falls back
to September 2, 1752. This was when Great Britain and her
colonies switched to the Gregorian Calendar.
That's 'ncal' from FreeBSD, which is an entirely "new"
implementation
written by Wolfgang Helbig:
commit 0cb2e609d9c2f0ceaf730a57ac5c11580058e7f4
Author: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)FreeBSD.org>
Date: Mon Dec 15 20:35:22 1997 +0000
Add new command ncal.
Note that the switch to the Gregorian calendar
happened at different times
in different countries. In Catholic-dominated countries it happened in
October of 1582. The English-speaking world, being Protestant-dominated,
waited until September of 1752 to adopt it.
Indeed!
--
Greg A. Woods <gwoods(a)acm.org>
Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods(a)robohack.ca>
Planix, Inc. <woods(a)planix.com> Avoncote Farms <woods(a)avoncote.ca>
7:03 p.m.
it is worse than "per country",
alaska changed when the u.s.
bought it from russia.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:45 AM Greg A. Woods <woods(a)robohack.ca> wrote:
At Sun, 14 Jul 2024 17:15:53 -0400, Marc Donner
<marc.donner(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: [TUHS] Re: When did "man cal" lose the comment about 1752?
My instance of cal (MacOS 14.5) has this in the man page:
-s country_code
Assume the switch from Julian to Gregorian Calendar at the
date
associated with the country_code.
If not specified, ncal
tries
to guess the switch date from the
local environment or
falls back
to September 2, 1752. This was when
Great Britain and her
colonies switched to the Gregorian Calendar.
That's 'ncal' from FreeBSD, which is an entirely "new"
implementation
written by Wolfgang Helbig:
commit 0cb2e609d9c2f0ceaf730a57ac5c11580058e7f4
Author: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)FreeBSD.org>
Date: Mon Dec 15 20:35:22 1997 +0000
Add new command ncal.
Note that the switch to the Gregorian calendar
happened at different
times
in different countries. In Catholic-dominated
countries it happened in
October of 1582. The English-speaking world, being Protestant-dominated,
waited until September of 1752 to adopt it.
Indeed!
--
Greg A. Woods <gwoods(a)acm.org>
Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods(a)robohack.ca>
Planix, Inc. <woods(a)planix.com> Avoncote Farms <woods(a)avoncote.ca>
7:04 p.m.
it is worse than "per country",
alaska changed when the u.s.
bought it from russia.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 12:03 PM Ken Thompson <kenbob(a)gmail.com> wrote:
it is worse than "per country",
alaska changed when the u.s.
bought it from russia.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:45 AM Greg A. Woods <woods(a)robohack.ca> wrote:
At Sun, 14 Jul 2024 17:15:53 -0400, Marc Donner
<marc.donner(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: [TUHS] Re: When did "man cal" lose the comment about 1752?
My instance of cal (MacOS 14.5) has this in the man page:
-s country_code
Assume the switch from Julian to Gregorian Calendar at the
date
associated with the country_code.
If not specified, ncal
tries
to guess the switch date from the
local environment or
falls back
to September 2, 1752. This was when
Great Britain and her
colonies switched to the Gregorian Calendar.
That's 'ncal' from FreeBSD, which is an entirely "new"
implementation
written by Wolfgang Helbig:
commit 0cb2e609d9c2f0ceaf730a57ac5c11580058e7f4
Author: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)FreeBSD.org>
Date: Mon Dec 15 20:35:22 1997 +0000
Add new command ncal.
Note that the switch to the Gregorian calendar
happened at different
times
in different countries. In Catholic-dominated
countries it happened in
October of 1582. The English-speaking world, being
Protestant-dominated,
waited until September of 1752 to adopt it.
Indeed!
--
Greg A. Woods <gwoods(a)acm.org>
Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods(a)robohack.ca>
Planix, Inc. <woods(a)planix.com> Avoncote Farms <woods(a)avoncote.ca>
8:02 p.m.
On 15 Jul 2024, at 21:04, Ken Thompson
<kenbob(a)gmail.com> wrote:
it is worse than "per country",
alaska changed when the u.s.
bought it from russia.
Also note that the ISO country codes standard is from 1974. I guess
that is why the FreeBSD ncal states that
"The assignment of Julian–Gregorian switching dates to
country codes is historically naive for many countries."
What we call countries nowadays has changed over the years (and
centuries).
jaap
7:33 p.m.
Yeah, but if you do that you have to treat the places acquired in the
Louisiana Purchase differently because they switched in 1582. And Puerto
Rico. Bleh.
=====
nygeek.net
mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home>
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 3:04 PM Ken Thompson <kenbob(a)gmail.com> wrote:
it is worse than "per country",
alaska changed when the u.s.
bought it from russia.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:45 AM Greg A. Woods <woods(a)robohack.ca> wrote:
At Sun, 14 Jul 2024 17:15:53 -0400, Marc Donner
<marc.donner(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: [TUHS] Re: When did "man cal" lose the comment about 1752?
My instance of cal (MacOS 14.5) has this in the man page:
-s country_code
Assume the switch from Julian to Gregorian Calendar at the
date
associated with the country_code.
If not specified, ncal
tries
to guess the switch date from the
local environment or
falls back
to September 2, 1752. This was when
Great Britain and her
colonies switched to the Gregorian Calendar.
That's 'ncal' from FreeBSD, which is an entirely "new"
implementation
written by Wolfgang Helbig:
commit 0cb2e609d9c2f0ceaf730a57ac5c11580058e7f4
Author: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)FreeBSD.org>
Date: Mon Dec 15 20:35:22 1997 +0000
Add new command ncal.
Note that the switch to the Gregorian calendar
happened at different
times
in different countries. In Catholic-dominated
countries it happened in
October of 1582. The English-speaking world, being
Protestant-dominated,
waited until September of 1752 to adopt it.
Indeed!
--
Greg A. Woods <gwoods(a)acm.org>
Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods(a)robohack.ca>
Planix, Inc. <woods(a)planix.com> Avoncote Farms <woods(a)avoncote.ca>
16 Jul
16 Jul
3:54 p.m.
The whole Julian -> Gregorian calendar conversion thing must be a real mess
for historians using contemporary date references.
-Paul W.
53
days inactive
58
days old
16 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Dave Horsfall -
Greg 'groggy' Lehey -
Greg A. Woods -
Henry Bent -
Jaap Akkerhuis -
Ken Thompson -
Marc Donner -
Paul Winalski -
Phil Budne -
Stuff Received