On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 05:22:55PM +0000, Ralph Corderoy wrote: To make this a bit more TUHS-focused, was there anything that had similar functionality which pre-dated Bill Joy and termcap in late 70's? (I'll note that in recent years, most people seem to have not bothered with terminfo, given that all the world's a Vax^H^H^HSun^H^H^HLinux ^H^H^H^Hxterm. :-) - Ted

At Thu, 26 Nov 2020 22:48:25 +0100, Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu> wrote: Subject: Re: [TUHS] Seeking wisdom from Unix Greybeards Wikipedia is a bit misleading here. This is one case where ANSI and ECMA worked together quite closely (and another example of where ISO took the result more or less directly, though on a different schedule). As it happens one can read about it much more directly from the original sources. First we can find that FIPS-86 is "in whole" ANSI-X3.64-1979 https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub86-1981.pdf Thus giving us "free" access to the original ANSI standard in a "new" digital (PDF) form. Here's the full copy of ANSI-X3.64-1979 verbatim (including cover pages): https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub86.pdf See in particular "Appendix H" in the latter. X3.64 also gives a good list of all the people and organisations which cooperated to create this standard (though interestingly only mentions ECMA-48 in that last appendix). There is also corroborating evidence of this cooperation in the preface ("BRIEF HISTORY") to the 2nd Edition of ECMA-48: https://www.ecma-international.org/wp-content/uploads/ECMA-48_2nd_edition_a… Note though that the link the 1st Edition of ECMA-48 here is wrong, so as yet I've not seen if there's any history given in that 1st edition): https://www.ecma-international.org/publications-and-standards/standards/ecm… As an aside, the DEC VT100 terminal was an early (it came out a year before X3.64) and relatively complete (for a video terminal application) implementation of X3.64. BTW, I would in general agree with Steffen that implementing an application to output anything but X3.64/ECMA-48/ISO-6429 is rather pointless these days, _unless_ one wants to take advantage of any particular implementation's additional "private" features, and/or work around any annoying but inevitable bugs in various implementations. Also the API provided by, e.g. libcurses, often makes for much easier programming than direct use of escape sequences, or invention and maintenance of one's own API. -- Greg A. Woods <gwoods(a)acm.org> Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods(a)robohack.ca> Planix, Inc. <woods(a)planix.com> Avoncote Farms <woods(a)avoncote.ca>

Greg A. Woods wrote in <m1l9ufi-0036urC(a)more.local>: |At Thu, 26 Nov 2020 22:48:25 +0100, Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu> \ |wrote: |Subject: Re: [TUHS] Seeking wisdom from Unix Greybeards |> |> ANSI escape sequences aka ISO 6429 came via ECMA-48 i have |> learned, and that appeared first in 1976 (that via Wikidpedia). | |Wikipedia is a bit misleading here. This is one case where ANSI and |ECMA worked together quite closely (and another example of where ISO |took the result more or less directly, though on a different schedule). | |As it happens one can read about it much more directly from the original |sources. | |First we can find that FIPS-86 is "in whole" ANSI-X3.64-1979 | | https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub86-1981.pdf | |Thus giving us "free" access to the original ANSI standard in a "new" |digital (PDF) form. Here's the full copy of ANSI-X3.64-1979 verbatim |(including cover pages): | | https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/FIPS/fipspub86.pdf | |See in particular "Appendix H" in the latter. Interesting that ANSI did not include the colour specifications. And that with Jimmy Carter. What is so interesting when looking at this. How typewriter output surrounded us decades ago, it was everywhere, and taken for granted (i am born in 1972), and how long that time has passed. |X3.64 also gives a good list of all the people and organisations which |cooperated to create this standard (though interestingly only mentions |ECMA-48 in that last appendix). | |There is also corroborating evidence of this cooperation in the preface |("BRIEF HISTORY") to the 2nd Edition of ECMA-48: | | https://www.ecma-international.org/wp-content/uploads/ECMA-48_2nd_editio\ | n_august_1979.pdf | |Note though that the link the 1st Edition of ECMA-48 here is wrong, so |as yet I've not seen if there's any history given in that 1st edition): | | https://www.ecma-international.org/publications-and-standards/standards/\ | ecma-48/ | |As an aside, the DEC VT100 terminal was an early (it came out a year |before X3.64) and relatively complete (for a video terminal application) |implementation of X3.64. | |BTW, I would in general agree with Steffen that implementing an |application to output anything but X3.64/ECMA-48/ISO-6429 is rather |pointless these days, _unless_ one wants to take advantage of any |particular implementation's additional "private" features, and/or work |around any annoying but inevitable bugs in various implementations. |Also the API provided by, e.g. libcurses, often makes for much easier |programming than direct use of escape sequences, or invention and |maintenance of one's own API. | |-- | Greg A. Woods <gwoods(a)acm.org> | |Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack <woods(a)robohack.ca> |Planix, Inc. <woods(a)planix.com> Avoncote Farms <woods(a)avoncote.ca> --End of <m1l9ufi-0036urC(a)more.local> --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)

Steffen Nurpmeso wrote in &lt;20201125180048.IvtOI%steffen(a)sdaoden.eu&gt;: |Grant Taylor wrote in | &lt;9c1595cc-54a1-8af9-0c2d-083cb04dd97c(a)spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net&gt;: ||As I find myself starting yet another project that that wants to use ||ANSI control sequences for colorization of text, I find myself -- yet ||again -- wondering if there is a better way to generate the output from ||the code in a way that respects TERMinal capabilites. || ||Is there a better / different control sequence that I can ~> should use ||for colorizing / stylizing output that will account for the differences ||in capabilities between a VT100 and XTerm? || ||Can I wrap things that I output so that I don't send color control ||sequences to a TERMinal that doesn't support them? | | color_init() { | [ -n "${NOCOLOUR}" ] && return | [ -n "${MAILX_CC_TEST_NO_COLOUR}" ] && return | # We do not want color for "make test > .LOG"! | if (command -v stty && command -v tput) >/dev/null 2>&1 && Of course that subshell (..if it is one..) is not necessary, it could be { ..; } or x&&y&&, whatever. Must be a leftover, or whatever i have thought once i wrote this. | (<&1 >/dev/null stty -a) 2>/dev/null; then | { sgr0=`tput sgr0`; } 2>/dev/null | [ $? -eq 0 ] || return | { saf1=`tput setaf 1`; } 2>/dev/null | [ $? -eq 0 ] || return | { saf2=`tput setaf 2`; } 2>/dev/null | [ $? -eq 0 ] || return | { saf3=`tput setaf 3`; } 2>/dev/null | [ $? -eq 0 ] || return | { b=`tput bold`; } 2>/dev/null | [ $? -eq 0 ] || return | | COLOR_ERR_ON=${saf1}${b} COLOR_ERR_OFF=${sgr0} | COLOR_WARN_ON=${saf3}${b} COLOR_WARN_OFF=${sgr0} | COLOR_OK_ON=${saf2} COLOR_OK_OFF=${sgr0} | unset saf1 saf2 saf3 b | fi |} | |Is what i use for a make system. A sh(1)-based test, to be exact. Ciao, --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)

On 11/26/20 11:26, Ed Carp wrote: True but I wonder whether curses would be bit heavy handed for this. N.

Larry, as was stated in the original post (and multiple times in the replies), I believe they were looking for another solution. On 11/26/20, Larry McVoy &lt;lm(a)mcvoy.com&gt; wrote: