24 Jan
2007
24 Jan
'07
10:11 a.m.
Hello all-
I'm a n00b on this list, so please forgive me my sins as I forgive
those who.... uh, never mind. Anyway, I am looking to get a "PDP-11
Processor Handbook" from Amazon or eBay (so I can understand the Lions
book) and there are so many different editions and versions... Lions
writes about the 11/40, but supposedly, that's not too different from
the /45 or /70. My simh boot images for v6 are for the /45 (though
supposedly I'm supposed to be able to modify them to run on the
others, right?).
What I'm asking is your advice on which Handbook to buy. Here is a
synopsis on the editions and prices from amazon:
/04/34A/44/60/70 (1979) $10
/04/34/45/55/60 (1978) $40
/70 (1975) $16
/04, 24, 34A, 70 (Jun 1981) $16
/04/05/10/35/40/45 (1975) $45
What do you think?
Thanks for your time,
Ross
24 Jan
24 Jan
11:17 a.m.
Ross Tucker wrote:
Hello all-
I'm a n00b on this list, so please forgive me my sins as I forgive
those who.... uh, never mind. Anyway, I am looking to get a "PDP-11
Processor Handbook" from Amazon or eBay (so I can understand the Lions
book) and there are so many different editions and versions... Lions
writes about the 11/40, but supposedly, that's not too different from
the /45 or /70. My simh boot images for v6 are for the /45 (though
supposedly I'm supposed to be able to modify them to run on the
others, right?).
There are a number of differences between the /40 & /45 and /70:
* 45 & 70 are split I & D machines
* /40 has it own floating point that is incompatible with any others
* 11/34 is basically an 11/40 (but can have the compatible floating
point)
* 70 has a Unibus map that allows it to have > 128KW (256KB).
* 45 & 70 have user/supervisor/kernel mode while others just have
user/kernel mode
* there are a few other differences that escape me at the moment
What I'm asking is your advice on which Handbook
to buy. Here is a
synopsis on the editions and prices from amazon:
/04/34A/44/60/70 (1979) $10
/04/34/45/55/60 (1978) $40
/70 (1975) $16
/04, 24, 34A, 70 (Jun 1981) $16
/04/05/10/35/40/45 (1975) $45
If you're trying to understand Lyons, then I'd probably go with the
last
book as the /40 & /45 were the ones most likely to be running v6
originally (although I did run it on a /34 back in the day).
--
TTFN - Guy
11:25 a.m.
Wow, they're saying $40 for the 1978 book? I don't think I'll lend out my
copy....
FYI, I run v6 on a PDP-11/34a with RK05 drives. The kernel that boots up
from the install media tries to be pretty generic, and yes, you can make
changes to it to optimize it for various platforms.
So the real question is: what do you want to do? If you just want to run a
PDP-11 in emulation, any of these books will do fine for you. The basic
PDP-11 instruction set is pretty constant across the series (with some
niggling exceptions, but nothing you're likely to deal with in an emulator).
There were extended instruction sets for some models, but again with an
emulator you can play to your heart's content. There were some differences
in memory management, which may or may not be important depending on what
you want to run; again, v6 runs fine on an 11/34 without separate I/D
spaces, while v7 and 2.11BSD require it (as I recall). But once again, simh
will let you rock on with any of these OS's.
For understanding Lions (i.e. understanding the underlying hardware better),
any of these will do. IMHO, YMMV, MOUSE. And welcome to the community!
Cheers -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: pups-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On
Behalf Of Ross Tucker
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:11 PM
To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: [pups] Advice on which PDP-11 processor handbook to buy
Hello all-
I'm a n00b on this list, so please forgive me my sins as I forgive those
who.... uh, never mind. Anyway, I am looking to get a "PDP-11 Processor
Handbook" from Amazon or eBay (so I can understand the Lions
book) and there are so many different editions and versions... Lions writes
about the 11/40, but supposedly, that's not too different from the /45 or
/70. My simh boot images for v6 are for the /45 (though supposedly I'm
supposed to be able to modify them to run on the others, right?).
What I'm asking is your advice on which Handbook to buy. Here is a synopsis
on the editions and prices from amazon:
/04/34A/44/60/70 (1979) $10
/04/34/45/55/60 (1978) $40
/70 (1975) $16
/04, 24, 34A, 70 (Jun 1981) $16
/04/05/10/35/40/45 (1975) $45
What do you think?
Thanks for your time,
Ross
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PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
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2:58 p.m.
If you want to understand the PDP-11 assembly language, any of them will do.
If you want to understand the MMU and some esoteric stuff, it might be a
good idea to get one of the books that actually cover the exact
processor you're interested in.
The basic instruction set is the same on all of the processors. There
are some very minor differences, but those are not even properly
documented in most of these books, and relate to how condition codes are
affected for some odd cases that you normally don't care about.
The major groupings you can do with the PDP-11 systems are otherwise if
they have split I/D space, supervisor mode, unibus map and 22-bit
addressing, floating point (none/FIS/FPP) and EIS.
Rougly, you can say:
11/34: EIS. Optional FPP.
11/40: None of that. Optional EIS and FIS.
11/44: All of it. Optional FPP.
11/45: split I/D, supervisor, EIS. Optional FPP.
11/60: EIS. Optional FPP.
11/70: All of it. Optional FPP.
Johnny
Ross Tucker skrev:
Hello all-
I'm a n00b on this list, so please forgive me my sins as I forgive
those who.... uh, never mind. Anyway, I am looking to get a "PDP-11
Processor Handbook" from Amazon or eBay (so I can understand the Lions
book) and there are so many different editions and versions... Lions
writes about the 11/40, but supposedly, that's not too different from
the /45 or /70. My simh boot images for v6 are for the /45 (though
supposedly I'm supposed to be able to modify them to run on the
others, right?).
What I'm asking is your advice on which Handbook to buy. Here is a
synopsis on the editions and prices from amazon:
/04/34A/44/60/70 (1979) $10
/04/34/45/55/60 (1978) $40
/70 (1975) $16
/04, 24, 34A, 70 (Jun 1981) $16
/04/05/10/35/40/45 (1975) $45
What do you think?
Thanks for your time,
Ross
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
5:37 p.m.
The major groupings you can do with the PDP-11 systems
are otherwise if
they have split I/D space, supervisor mode, unibus map and 22-bit
addressing, floating point (none/FIS/FPP) and EIS.
Rougly, you can say:
11/34: EIS. Optional FPP.
11/40: None of that. Optional EIS and FIS.
11/44: All of it. Optional FPP.
11/45: split I/D, supervisor, EIS. Optional FPP.
11/60: EIS. Optional FPP.
11/70: All of it. Optional FPP
And let's not forget the CIS Option. :-)
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
6:07 p.m.
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
Right. And I forgot to mention the 11/24 as well. (I'm ignoring the
Q-bus machines, and really old/small unibus machines as well.)
So we also have CIS. And to adjust the list above:
11/24: EIS, unibus map and 22-bit addressing. Optional FPP and CIS.
11/44: Optional CIS.
Johnny
The major
groupings you can do with the PDP-11 systems are otherwise if
they have split I/D space, supervisor mode, unibus map and 22-bit
addressing, floating point (none/FIS/FPP) and EIS.
Rougly, you can say:
11/34: EIS. Optional FPP.
11/40: None of that. Optional EIS and FIS.
11/44: All of it. Optional FPP.
11/45: split I/D, supervisor, EIS. Optional FPP.
11/60: EIS. Optional FPP.
11/70: All of it. Optional FPP
And let's not forget the CIS Option. :-)
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5 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Bill Gunshannon -
Guy Sotomayor -
Ian King -
Johnny Billquist -
Ross Tucker