Dave Horsfall: And for those who slagged me off for calling him an idiot, try this quick quiz: on a scale from utter moron to sheer genius, what do you call someone who deliberately releases untested software designed to compromise machines that are not under his administrative control in order to make some sort of a point? ===== I'd call that careless and irresponsible. Calling it stupid or idiotic is, well, a stupid, idiotic simplification that succeeds in being nasty without showing any understanding of the real problem. Carelessness and irresponsibility are characteristic of people in their late teens and early 20s, i.e. Robert's age at the time. Many of us are overly impressed with our own brilliance at that age, and even when we take some care (as I think Robert did) we don't always take enough (as he certainly didn't). Anyone who claims not to have been at least a bit irresponsible and careless when young is, in my opinion, not being honest. Some of my former colleagues at Bell Labs weren't always as careful and responsible as they should be, even to the point of causing harm to others. But to their credit, when they screwed up that way they owned up to having done so, tried to make amends, and tried to do better in future, just as Robert did. It was just Robert's bad luck that he screwed up in such a public way and did harm to so many people. I save my scorn for those who are long past that age and still behave irresponsibly and harmfully, like certain high politicians and certain high-tech executives. Probably future discussion of this should move to COFF unless it relates directly to the culture and doings in 1127 or other historic UNIX places. Norman Wilson Toronto ON