1 Nov
2007
1 Nov
'07
6:31 p.m.
Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super)
minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
So I guess I have two questions:
Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
get that way.
Thanks
--tim
2 Nov
2 Nov
11:34 a.m.
To add to this, there used to be a book on computer engineering with details
on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have been a
PDP-11.)
Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University textbook I
think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an updated
PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for anyone with a
soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in one fell
swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working and
available PDP-11 in the UK.
Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
Wesley Parish
On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing
British (super)
minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
So I guess I have two questions:
Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
get that way.
Thanks
--tim
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
12:35 p.m.
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
To add to this, there used to be a book on computer
engineering with
details
on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have
been a
PDP-11.)
Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University
textbook I
think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an
updated
PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for
anyone with a
soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in
one fell
swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working
and
available PDP-11 in the UK.
Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
Wesley Parish
On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
Having long ago got rid of my collection of
ageing British (super)
minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
So I guess I have two questions:
Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
get that way.
Thanks
--tim
--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
1:03 p.m.
Sorry my previous message seemed to be missing the text that I wanted
to send... see below...
I have what I believe is a PDP 11/23 in a cabinet with two RL02
drives. I rescued it from a company who were just going to skip it in
the 90's. I've never used it and don't have an OS for it but the
company had been using it up until the day the that I rescued it.
The machine is located in Bury St. Edmunds in Suffolk. If someone can
put this to good use then they can have it. I'll post a picture of it
up somewhere tonight to help identify it. I think it may have some
schematics with it as well.
Regards, Rob.
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
To add to this, there used to be a book on computer
engineering with
details
on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have
been a
PDP-11.)
Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University
textbook I
think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an
updated
PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for
anyone with a
soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in
one fell
swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working
and
available PDP-11 in the UK.
Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
Wesley Parish
On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
Having long ago got rid of my collection of
ageing British (super)
minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
So I guess I have two questions:
Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
get that way.
Thanks
--tim
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
2:38 p.m.
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this
sort of problem in
one fell
swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a
working and
available PDP-11 in the UK.
It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like
making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to
fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in
existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car,
or computer, because it's vintage.
--tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma
replica...)
3:15 p.m.
On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)tfeb.org> wrote:
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
Hello!
There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would
have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that
MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best.
--
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8(a)gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
messages in English in the Moscow subway."
I'm thinking this would be the way to solve
this sort of problem in
one fell
swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a
working and
available PDP-11 in the UK.
It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like
making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to
fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in
existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car,
or computer, because it's vintage.
--tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma
replica...) 
5:28 p.m.
On 11/2/07, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)tfeb.org> wrote:
Are you perhaps thinking of _The Art of Digital Design_?
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/28p6am>
carl
--
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
Hello!
There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would
have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that
MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best. I'm thinking this would be the way to solve
this sort of problem in
one fell
swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a
working and
available PDP-11 in the UK.
It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like
making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to
fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in
existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car,
or computer, because it's vintage.
--tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma
replica...)
3 Nov
3 Nov
12:52 a.m.
On 11/2/07, Carl Lowenstein <carl.lowenstein(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/2/07, Gregg Levine
<gregg.drwho8(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!
Actually yes! That is the book I was trying to think of this morning.
I even came very close to building the thing, but ran out of time
trying to find the parts, let alone the actual time needed to build
the thing.
Since their ideas are good ones for what I do, I'll probably buy the
book via that method from Amazon, in addition to a few trillion
others.
--
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8(a)gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
messages in English in the Moscow subway."
On 11/2/07, Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)tfeb.org>
wrote:
Are you perhaps thinking of _The Art of Digital Design_?
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/28p6am>
carl
--
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu
On 2 Nov 2007, at 10:34, Wesley Parish wrote:
Hello!
There is just such a textbook, I've read it. However as luck would
have it today I can not remember its title. It might be the one that
MSResearch remembers, but its unlikely at best. I'm thinking this would be the way to solve
this sort of problem in
one fell
swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a
working and
available PDP-11 in the UK.
It's a cool idea, but I think it depends. That would be a bit like
making a vintage car. People do that (even without the intention to
fake them - there are, I think, many more type 35 Bugattis in
existence than were ever made), but sometimes you want a vintage car,
or computer, because it's vintage.
--tim (owner of a vintage car, but also owner of an electronic enigma
replica...) 
2 Nov
2 Nov
2:42 p.m.
Wes,
Is this the book you are thinking of?
http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/index.html
To add to this, there used to be a book on computer
engineering with details
on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even have been a
PDP-11.)
Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University textbook I
think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone have an updated
PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to PUPS for anyone with a
soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in one fell
swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working and
available PDP-11 in the UK.
Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
Wesley Parish
On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
Having long ago got rid of my collection of
ageing British (super)
minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
So I guess I have two questions:
Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
get that way.
Thanks
--tim
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
3 Nov
3 Nov
8:58 a.m.
On Saturday 03 November 2007 02:42, Brantley Coile wrote:
--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
Wes,
Is this the book you are thinking of?
http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/index.html
Yes, thanks!
Wesley Parish
To add to this, there used to be a book on
computer engineering with
details on designing a PDP of some particular nature. (It might even
have been a PDP-11.)
Is it possible to persuade the writer of that book - a University
textbook I think - to donate it to PUPS? Alternatively, does someone
have an updated PDP-11 design that they would be willing to donate to
PUPS for anyone with a soldering iron and enough time, to play with?
I'm thinking this would be the way to solve this sort of problem in one
fell swoop, if as I suspect is likely, it is impossible to find a working
and available PDP-11 in the UK.
Just my 0.02c worth - and my, hasn't inflation risen ... ;)
Wesley Parish
On Friday 02 November 2007 06:31, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups Having long ago got rid of my collection of
ageing British (super)
minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't
pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical,
so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11.
What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/
or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19"
racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me
like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed
11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah.
So I guess I have two questions:
Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW
etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least
partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to
keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some
cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life
trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting
things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit).
Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of
course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect
to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might
get that way.
Thanks
--tim
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are
impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
13 Nov
13 Nov
11:55 a.m.
New subject: [pups] Any comments on this (was Re: Suitable PDP11s, in the UK)
First of all thanks to everyone who replied following my earlier
enquiry.
Someone is selling what he claims is an 11/73, in the UK: http://
cgi.ebay.co.uk/Original-Vintage-DEC-PDP-11-73-Display-All-
Working_W0QQitemZ110191110904QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr
dZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It looks may be too expensive to me (he's listed it before and no one
bid then). But if I was interested my guess at questions to ask
would really be what disk (model) does it have because that's what
would affect reliability the most. Anyone have any suggestions as to
anything else I should ask?
Thanks, and apologies if this is abuse of the list (someone say if it
is, and I'll shut up).
--tim
12:14 p.m.
New subject: [pups] Any comments on this (was Re: Suitable PDP11s, in the UK)
Hi Tim,
It's probably got an RD53 in it. An RD52 would be right for a box starting out as a
23 but I wouldn't have thought that you could get a workable unix on the system with
only a 52. The problem is that 53s are not the most reliable of hard discs.
I haven't forgotten you, I still need to go to the second lockup to find out what
I've got stashed.
Robin
tfb(a)tfeb.org wrote:
First of all thanks to everyone who replied following
my earlier
enquiry.
Someone is selling what he claims is an 11/73, in the UK: http://
cgi.ebay.co.uk/Original-Vintage-DEC-PDP-11-73-Display-All-
Working_W0QQitemZ110191110904QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr
dZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It looks may be too expensive to me (he's listed it before and no one
bid then). But if I was interested my guess at questions to ask
would really be what disk (model) does it have because that's what
would affect reliability the most. Anyone have any suggestions as to
anything else I should ask?
Thanks, and apologies if this is abuse of the list (someone say if it
is, and I'll shut up).
--tim
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
2:57 p.m.
New subject: [pups] Any comments on this (was Re: Suitable PDP11s, in the UK)
robinb(a)ruffnready.co.uk wrote:
Hi Tim,
It's probably got an RD53 in it. An RD52 would be right for a box starting out as a
23 but I wouldn't have thought that you could get a workable unix on the system with
only a 52. The problem is that 53s are not the most reliable of hard discs.
I haven't forgotten you, I still need to go to the second lockup to find out what
I've got stashed.
Mmmm.. I must get around to doing something with my RD51/RX50AA and *no
ethernetted MicroPDP11/23. It's got MicroRSX on at the mo and, apart
from an occasionally RAM fault that seems to float around occastionally,
its in perfect nick. (its only been doing heat and blow-dry duties in my
bedroom for the last 14 years;-)
I suppose I'll have to upgrade the hard disk somehow.. Got a known-good
ST-225 with a 512B/Sector LL format kicking around. (oh.. i have a great
attic.. :-) though I expect I'll have to reformat and DECcify them
somehow.. <sigh>
The silver lining there being that I can put the MicroRSX RD51 in "a
safe place" for posterity.. no other reason really. I'm kinda reluctant
to erase it.
Then it's finding what ethernet will fitt the bill w. BSD and the
u11/23. NDG without networking.
Ohh.. And I have to find a way to interface an ex-Vax TK-50 with the
Micro 11/23 too.
Helpfull post, or amusing yarns, welcome.
Cheers!
M.
4:28 p.m.
New subject: [pups] Any comments on this (was Re: Suitable PDP11s, in the UK)
Hi,
If you can get a big enough disc to load BSD2.11 then the networking will work fine. You
will be able to get resolve to work but the nameserver is too much and you'll need to
point to something else for that.
I used to run my pdp in a network of freebsd and windows PCs quite happily.
Robin
fragula(a)hyperdark.org wrote:
robinb(a)ruffnready.co.uk wrote:
Hi Tim,
It's probably got an RD53 in it. An RD52 would be right for a box starting out as a
23 but I wouldn't have thought that you could get a workable unix on the system with
only a 52. The problem is that 53s are not the most reliable of hard discs.
I haven't forgotten you, I still need to go to the second lockup to find out what
I've got stashed.
Mmmm.. I must get around to doing something with my RD51/RX50AA and *no
ethernetted MicroPDP11/23. It's got MicroRSX on at the mo and, apart
from an occasionally RAM fault that seems to float around occastionally,
its in perfect nick. (its only been doing heat and blow-dry duties in my
bedroom for the last 14 years;-)
I suppose I'll have to upgrade the hard disk somehow.. Got a known-good
ST-225 with a 512B/Sector LL format kicking around. (oh.. i have a great
attic.. :-) though I expect I'll have to reformat and DECcify them
somehow.. <sigh>
The silver lining there being that I can put the MicroRSX RD51 in "a
safe place" for posterity.. no other reason really. I'm kinda reluctant
to erase it.
Then it's finding what ethernet will fitt the bill w. BSD and the
u11/23. NDG without networking.
Ohh.. And I have to find a way to interface an ex-Vax TK-50 with the
Micro 11/23 too.
Helpfull post, or amusing yarns, welcome.
Cheers!
M.
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
6214
days inactive
6226
days old
13 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Brantley Coile -
Carl Lowenstein -
Fragula -
Gregg Levine -
Robert Tillyard -
robinb＠ruffnready.co.uk -
Tim Bradshaw -
Wesley Parish