<uq0 at uda0 csr 172150 vec 774 ipl 17 <vvv****The RL02 driver!***vvv <hl0 at uba0 csr 174400 didn't interrupt <hl0 at uba0 csr 174400 didn't interrupt <^^^***(Observe! Twice! The darn thing at least pretends to try..)***^^^ <klesiu0 at uba0 That suggests the interrupt grant chain was not intact. Look to see if one of the slots needs a grant card. Watch out as a few cards DO NOT pass grant! <Any clue anybody? (I know that this is tedious for you all but it is for <a good cause, okay? ) I understand why you would use rl02 they are handy. I have no experience with them in unix context only Qbus VAX (under VMS) and PDP-11s under rt-11/rsts/rsx-11 so I can't comment on software setup. Allison Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA22534 for pups-liszt; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 03:19:09 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.166.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22526 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 03:19:03 +1100 (EST) Received: (from jlothian@localhost) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20434 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:18:57 GMT Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:18:57 GMT Message-Id: &lt;199802281618.QAA20434(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk&gt; From: J Lothian &lt;jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk&gt; Subject: RL02 meets BSD To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I've had an RL02 working on an 11/750 running BSD4.3. The RL11 controller only has 16 words of buffer memory, so you've got to make sure that other devices don't hog the bus too much. In particular, UDAs should have their DMA burst set to something like 1. Setting it much higher causes the RL11 to get data lates as its silo overflows before it gets access to the bus to do DMA. However, the RLV12 seems to have a much bigger silo (256 bytes?), so this should't be a problem for it. The only other things I can think of are bus grant problems &c. If you're using an RQDX3 in the same machine, bear in mind that it doesn't pass the grants, and so should be the last device on the bus. James Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA23015 for pups-liszt; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:59:19 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from alph02.triumf.ca (alph02.Triumf.CA [142.90.114.18]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA23010 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU&gt;; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:59:13 +1100 (EST) Received: by alph02.triumf.ca; id AA14586; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 09:58:27 -0800 From: Tim Shoppa &lt;shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Message-Id: &lt;9802281758.AA14586(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Subject: Re: RL02 meets BSD To: jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.AC.UK (J Lothian) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 09:58:27 -0800 (PST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: &lt;199802281618.QAA20434(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk&gt; from "J Lothian" at Feb 28, 98 04:18:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk This certainly seems likely to me, too. What cards are in the machine, and in which slots? What are the switches on the RLV12 set to? I think you're thinking of the RQDX1/2 here. Tim. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA24673 for pups-liszt; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:46:02 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from alph02.triumf.ca (alph02.Triumf.CA [142.90.114.18]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA24668 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:45:56 +1100 (EST) Received: by alph02.triumf.ca; id AA18387; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:45:52 -0800 From: Tim Shoppa &lt;shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Message-Id: &lt;9803010445.AA18387(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Subject: Re: CD-ROM from SCO unlikely To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:45:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: &lt;199802280443.UAA00780(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; from "Steven M. Schultz" at Feb 27, 98 08:43:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In case anyone is interested in the benchmarks, here's a short summary: Both a Webster ESDC (1 Megabyte cache, Hitachi DK512-12 ESDI drive) and an Andromeda SCDC (2 Mbyte cache connected to many SCSI devices, including an "internal" SCSI ZIP) are present on my main development machine, a 11/73 (KDJ11-B) with 2 Mbytes of non-PMI memory. Caching on both controllers was enabled and two benchmarks were done with each disk subsystem. Times reported below are "wall times". All of this is done under the latest release of 2.11BSD using a non-networking system and no other work being done on the system. 1. "make sendmail" took 1159.4 seconds on the WQESD+Hitachi, and 1165.3 seconds on the SCDC+ZIP. 2. "find /usr -print > /dev/null" took 166.4 seconds on the WQESD+Hitachi and 165.0 seconds on the SCDC+ZIP. It looks like, for most purposes, the ZIP on a good SCSI host adapter is just as good as an ESDI drive on a good ESDI controller. I think Steven was expecting to see a substantial hit due to the ZIP's access time, but I think that the buffering in the host adapter and in the ZIP drive itself makes this a minor concern. Tim. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25119 for pups-liszt; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:01:49 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from tesla.df.lth.se (tesla.df.lth.se [194.47.252.144]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25114 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:01:42 +1100 (EST) Received: from lintilla2.df.lth.se (lintilla2.df.lth.se [194.47.252.38]) by tesla.df.lth.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA08233; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:01:35 +0100 (MET) Received: by lintilla2.df.lth.se (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA20312; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:02:46 +0100 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:02:45 +0100 (MET) From: Beastly Wolf &lt;beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se&gt; To: Allison J Parent &lt;allisonp(a)world.std.com&gt; cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: That RL02 blues In-Reply-To: &lt;199802281508.AA24580(a)world.std.com&gt; Message-ID: &lt;Pine.SUN.3.91.980301090135.20308A-100000(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Grant chain was intact on both machines. On the second machine the MSCP device was placed below the RLV12 and the RA disk worked fine! /Lars On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25136 for pups-liszt; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:05:29 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from tesla.df.lth.se (tesla.df.lth.se [194.47.252.144]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25131 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:05:24 +1100 (EST) Received: from lintilla2.df.lth.se (lintilla2.df.lth.se [194.47.252.38]) by tesla.df.lth.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA08261; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:05:21 +0100 (MET) Received: by lintilla2.df.lth.se (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA20317; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:06:27 +0100 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:06:26 +0100 (MET) From: Beastly Wolf &lt;beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se&gt; To: J Lothian &lt;jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk&gt; cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: RL02 meets BSD In-Reply-To: &lt;199802281618.QAA20434(a)holyrood.ed.ac.uk&gt; Message-ID: &lt;Pine.SUN.3.91.980301090322.20308B-100000(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Both systems have "pirate" drive controllers and they have cards that do pass grant signals. If I do not remember wrongly, I think that only RQDX-1 had the "feature" of not passing the grant chain. But we placed all RQDX controller at the bottom anyhow even though they worked further up. THis is of academical interest only since I do not have holes in the grant chain and do not have an RQDX controllers AND I have devices below the drive controller in the first case that do work! /Lars On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, J Lothian wrote: Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25220 for pups-liszt; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:37:03 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from tesla.df.lth.se (tesla.df.lth.se [194.47.252.144]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25215 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:36:57 +1100 (EST) Received: from lintilla2.df.lth.se (lintilla2.df.lth.se [194.47.252.38]) by tesla.df.lth.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA08432; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:36:49 +0100 (MET) Received: by lintilla2.df.lth.se (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA20351; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:37:59 +0100 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:37:58 +0100 (MET) From: Beastly Wolf &lt;beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se&gt; To: Tim Shoppa &lt;shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; cc: J Lothian &lt;jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.AC.UK&gt;, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: RL02 meets BSD In-Reply-To: &lt;9802281758.AA14586(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Message-ID: &lt;Pine.SUN.3.91.980301090940.20308C-100000(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk For various reasons I can not give you the hardware config of the first system (Okay okay! I DO not want to crawl back in behind it under all the cabling and short out the house again because I did something aggravating to the power outlet in the process the last time I was in there) but the only thing I did to that one was to add the RLV12 at the bottom. The system worked before with all devices and did so afterwards too except for the RLV-controller. The second system looks like this: A B C D 1 CPU-----CPU-----CPU-----CPU 2 MEM-----MEM-----MEM-----MEM 3 RLV12---RLV12---RLV12---RLV12 4 TKQ50---TKQ50 DQNA----DQNA 5 SI------SI------SI------SI GLUED BACKPLANE FROM HERE AND DOWN (this used to be a VAX-station II. Remember them and cringe!) SI is a quad ESDI controller for one or two external drives from System Industries. On the other system I have a dual SI controller for RA81 clones (Eagle). There I DO have an RQDX-3 above the RLV12 but not so here. Grant chain on the uVAX bus looks like this: 1AB-2AB-3AB-4AB-4CD-5CD-5AB(and so on). The first three slots are "granted" only in the AB pair. The RLV12 does work with grants only on the AB pair however. It works fine in my three button 9 slot 22 bit backplane (classical PDP11 vintage rack mount cab) and there the grant chain goes ONLY on the AB side stright down (BA11-N and H9273). So, no, I do not think we have a grant problem. However, does the RLV12 handle drive interrupt like the RL11 does? It could be that ULTRIX only supports the UNIBUS controller and not the Qbus.. And if so, is there a fix for this out there? And if not, how do I get hold of enough NetBSD to get a uVAX up enough to have the config above, being able to network and being able to reach both the SI controller and the RLV12? Come to think of it, most of the no nonsense hard hat industry type PDP11's I've seen (and especially the OEM-ed ones) got some sort of winchester emulating one or several RL02s. Often combined with some sort of QIC-type tape recorder with secret density. To get ANYTHING on those rigs, I think you HAVE to do it the dd way after having moved the controller to a bigger system.... Amazing how things can turn... I used to spend a lot of time in trying to get away from the 16 bit operating systems into the wonderful world of 32 bit. Now I am struggling even harder to get back in there again. =) Fun is not always bigger, faster better! /Lars On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA26727 for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:58:11 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from alph02.triumf.ca (alph02.Triumf.CA [142.90.114.18]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA26722 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU&gt;; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 05:57:59 +1100 (EST) Received: by alph02.triumf.ca; id AA28081; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:57:46 -0800 From: Tim Shoppa &lt;shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Message-Id: &lt;9803011857.AA28081(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Subject: Re: RL02 meets BSD To: beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se (Beastly Wolf) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:57:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: jlothian(a)holyrood.ed.AC.UK, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: &lt;Pine.SUN.3.91.980301090940.20308C-100000(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se&gt; from "Beastly Wolf" at Mar 1, 98 09:37:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Ah, the "RC" aka "restricted configuration" aka "resin-coated" backplane. The BA23 has a special CD-bus in the first three slots. Usually it's not a problem to put a full-height card in the third slot, below the CPU and memory, but occasionally there are quad-height cards which actually pay some attention to stuff going on the CD side of the bus. Can you try rearranging your cards so that you have a dual-height card (i.e. the TKQ50 or DEQNA) in slot 3 AB, you have the 3 CD empty, and the RLV12 in slot 4? This involves you giving up either your TKQ50 or DEQNA, but I'm hoping that you can live without one or the other for a little while. Also, how are the jumpers/DIPswitches set on the RLV12? It's possible to do some weird things by sticking the RLV12 into 16-bit or 18-bit mode or by having the VEC set to something used by one of your other cards. If either of these is the case, regard the fact that the controller isn't usable as a Good Thing; having a RLV12 in 18-bit mode splatter data all around low memory isn't fun! Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA26876 for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:43:50 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26871 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU&gt;; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:43:45 +1100 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08986; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:25:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 11:25:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" &lt;sms(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199803011925.LAA08986(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: CD-ROM from SCO unlikely Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Hi - I tracked down an address and phone number for Andromeda Systems - they are real close to me (in fact I drive by them every visit to Fry's ;-)) Andromeda Systems, Inc. 9000 Eton Avenue Canoga Park, CA 91304 818-709-7600 (voice) 818-709-7407 (FAX) No mention of a WWW site though. I'd imagine their boards, while very good, are quite expensive. As much as I'd like a Zip drive on the 11/93 I can't see spending US$1-2k for a $139 disk drive :-) WOW. That is quite surprising. Quite so. Especially on the 'find' which is almost pure 'seek' operations. Wasn't there mention somewhere of a 200mb Zip? I know there's the 2gb Jaz drive now but haven't heard anymore about a larger Zip. On the other hand there is the Syquest product line - they've a 135mb "zip like" (but not compatible) drive. Steven Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA26957 for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 07:09:53 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from alph02.triumf.ca (alph02.Triumf.CA [142.90.114.18]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA26952 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU&gt;; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 07:09:49 +1100 (EST) Received: by alph02.triumf.ca; id AA19319; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:09:46 -0800 From: Tim Shoppa &lt;shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Message-Id: &lt;9803012009.AA19319(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Subject: Re: CD-ROM from SCO unlikely To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:09:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: &lt;199803011925.LAA08986(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; from "Steven M. Schultz" at Mar 1, 98 11:25:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Try http://www.andromedasystems.com/ Hook up 6 other SCSI devices to the board and you might change your mind! The SCDC also supports standard 34-pin 5.25" and 3.5" floppies. > > 2. "find /usr -print > /dev/null" took 166.4 seconds on the WQESD+Hitachi > > and 165.0 seconds on the SCDC+ZIP. > > WOW. That is quite surprising. > > > > Quite so. Especially on the 'find' which is almost pure 'seek' > operations. Actually, the ZIP "in-use" LED wasn't lit during most of the 'find'. I suspect the Andromeda SCDC cached most of the important inodes quite early on. In terms of raw bandwidth to the Q-bus, nothing I've ever seen comes close to the SCDC. 2 Mbytes/second may not be a whole lot by modern PCI bus standards, but on the Q-bus it's very impressive. I've heard mention of it too, but AFAIK it's still vaporware. 100 Mbytes is, indeed, pretty tight for a 2.11BSD distribution, but it does fit. Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA27003 for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 07:32:58 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f