On Wednesday, 5 August 1998 at 9:11:53 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: OK. Check out http://www.lemis.com/~grog/history.html. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25348 for pups-liszt; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:11:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from IAEhv.nl (root(a)iaehv.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25343 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:11:49 +1000 (EST) Received: from 194.151.78.1 (pm3d00.IAEhv.nl [194.151.78.1]) by IAEhv.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA26558 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:11:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:11:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Kees Stravers &lt;pb0aia(a)iaehv.nl&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199808051511.RAA26558(a)IAEhv.nl&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: TUHS web page: version #0 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au said on Wed, 5 Aug 1998 02:13:48 +0200 (CEST) wk>The zeroth version of a web page for this all-encompassing group wk>thingy to cover all Unix preservation/development etc is now at: wk>http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/ wk>Feel free (if not compelled) to mail me with suggestions, wk>hyperlinks, background artwork etc. Michael, would you be able to wk>knock up a VAX UNIX web page so I could add a hyperlink to it? Maybe I can help (a little). At this moment I am building a site dedicated to the VAX and its operating systems, mostly concentrating on hardware info and NetBSD for now, but I also have a links page to a lot of information on BSD and generic Unix, and there is a PDP11 links page. I am on this mailing list because I have several MicroPDP's here, and I want to run 2.11 on them, but at the time I am tinkering with the VAXen more often. (Unfortunately I haven't yet been able to request the licence from SCO, but that won't take too long anymore.) The site I am building is at http://vaxarchive.ml.org I would like to mirror the Unix heritage information on this site, there is room for some more files. Please take a look at my site and let me know what information you think should be there too that I missed, so I can make the site more complete. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org http://www.iae.nl/users/kees/vax/ - My VAX and old iron collection Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26516 for pups-liszt; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:16:08 +1000 (EST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26511 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:16:02 +1000 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA12664 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:15:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter &lt;pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199808052115.RAA12664(a)shell.monmouth.com&gt; Subject: Old Unix Preservation -- How to save the SysV varients To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:15:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk One thing about preserving the Unix varients. There's a number of interesting (lesser known) versions with features that may be interesting to study. This may be because of my history major background -- or that I spent too many years in Field Service for far too many vendors of these boxes. One example is Masscomp/Concurrent's early RTU which had dual universes (SysIII-SysV/BSD libraries), DEC-like ASTs and real-time processes. Concurrent (originally Interdata, Perkin-Elmer) also had a very nice non virtual memory SysVRel2 called Xelos as well as Edition VII. Another Unix (which I'd kill for sources for) is Pyramid's OS/x which was a SysV/BSD4.2 dual universe box (with both sets of init/getty and 3 UUCP's). It was kind of the Universal Unix system. Pick your init, universe, UUCP... they're all in there. AT&T sold these as System 7000's, Siemens-Nixdorf also sold them. I worked for Pyramid and found it my favorite Unix to this day -- since I could mix and match features on the fly. Both of these versions are pretty dead today. I don't know if Siemens-Pyramid even supports OS/x any more (probably not -- since they're going Reliant SysVR4 and Solaris on the new stuff). The main drawback to getting these systems are they were was all implemented on SysIII or SysV releases -- so the licenses are constrained by the original "You need a SysV source license to get our source code plus our license fee." Bill Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26958 for pups-liszt; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:46:36 +1000 (EST) Received: from IAEhv.nl (root(a)iaehv.IAEhv.nl [194.151.64.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26953 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:46:30 +1000 (EST) Received: from 194.151.78.4 (pm3d03.IAEhv.nl [194.151.78.4]) by IAEhv.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA21053 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:46:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:46:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Kees Stravers &lt;pb0aia(a)iaehv.nl&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199808052346.BAA21053(a)IAEhv.nl&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Old Unix Preservation -- How to save the SysV varients Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com said on Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:08:07 +0200 (CEST) pe>One thing about preserving the Unix varients. There's a number of pe>interesting (lesser known) versions with features that may be pe>interesting to study. This may be because of my history major pe>background -- or that I spent too many years in Field Service for pe>far too many vendors of these boxes. pe>One example is Masscomp/Concurrent's early RTU which had dual pe>universes (SysIII-SysV/BSD libraries), DEC-like ASTs and real-time pe>processes. Concurrent (originally Interdata, Perkin-Elmer) also pe>had a very nice non virtual memory SysVRel2 called Xelos as well as pe>Edition VII. 8< snip >8 Do you have any hardware documentation left on the Masscomps? I have a 5700 here in the basement and a stack of floppies that should be the install set for RTU 5.0, but the hard disk, a Fujitsu Eagle, is dead. There is no information on the machine to be found on the net at all and the newsgroup has been dead for years. I'd put up a page on the machine myself if I knew something worth telling about it. I don't have any hardware manuals, only a very incomplete set on the OS. Can I mount any SMD drive in the machine and tell the install about the geometry or do I also have to tell the controller? How do I copy the disks? Can Teledisk duplicate them? (I once saw that it said it copied the disk successfully, but the target machine couldn't read it.) Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28239 for pups-liszt; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:24:14 +1000 (EST) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28234 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:24:07 +1000 (EST) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA23554; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:53:55 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id OAA09593; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:53:54 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: &lt;19980806145354.H9468(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:53:54 +0930 From: Greg Lehey &lt;grog(a)lemis.com&gt; To: Kees Stravers &lt;pb0aia(a)iaehv.nl&gt;, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Old Unix Preservation -- How to save the SysV varients References: &lt;199808052346.BAA21053(a)IAEhv.nl&gt; Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: &lt;199808052346.BAA21053(a)IAEhv.nl&gt;; from Kees Stravers on Thu, Aug 06, 1998 at 01:46:20AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Thursday, 6 August 1998 at 1:46:20 +0200, Kees Stravers wrote: I've never even *seen* a Masscomp, but "Writing a UNIX Device Driver", by Janet Egan and Thomas Teixeira, based on a Masscomp document. It's possible that if you can find one of them, they could give you a lead. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25327 for pups-liszt; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:37:25 +1000 (EST) Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (2026(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25322 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:37:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA14600; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:36:45 +0200 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:36:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist &lt;bqt(a)Update.UU.SE&gt; To: Allison J Parent &lt;allisonp(a)world.std.com&gt; cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Thoughts... In-Reply-To: &lt;199807311344.AA23930(a)world.std.com&gt; Message-ID: &lt;Pine.VUL.3.93.980812013327.13671E-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: (Maybe it's time to drop out of PUPS, Sokolov is here, and for me, I'm not into big old Unix, only pdp-11 stuff...) Anyway, to make the list more complete, Quickware makes even faster pdp-11s last time I looked, and a third player is Strobe Data. So there are still lots of go in the pdp-11 community, I'll bet it will outlive the VAXen. Amen. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA25351 for pups-liszt; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:40:09 +1000 (EST)