13 Sep
2022
13 Sep
'22
5:25 a.m.
Hello all,
I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I wrote a few
years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 firmware. It also now supports
executing a local shell or connecting directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It
runs natively on Linux or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a
Windows version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows user, but
I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming).
Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking down the 8;7;3
firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank Mike Haertel for helping find
bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring me to get it working with Research Unix in
addition to SVR3.
Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
13 Sep
13 Sep
7:53 a.m.
This looks like some really nice work. I used a BLIT at UW Madison
and loved it, it was way more useful than a terminal and way less
fuss than a full blown windowing system. Felt like the knee of the
curve. All of that over a serial line, that's impressive.
I dunno, but I bet that Rob trys it out just for a trip down memory
lane.
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 04:25:50PM -0700, Seth Morabito wrote:
Hello all,
I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I wrote a few
years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 firmware. It also now supports
executing a local shell or connecting directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It
runs natively on Linux or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a
Windows version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows user, but
I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming).
Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking down the 8;7;3
firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank Mike Haertel for helping find
bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring me to get it working with Research Unix in
addition to SVR3.
Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
7:58 a.m.
Some time ago, Greg Christie, then at Apple, booted up a 3B2 with a 5620
attached and invited me to play with it. Now _that_ was a trip down memory
lane. (The 3B2, maybe not so much.)
It was a reward for an interview with him, recorded on video, about the
early days of 2d graphics as I saw them, for a course for employees. But
being Apple, even though it was 0% proprietary, it will never see the light
of day.
-rob
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:53 AM Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
This looks like some really nice work. I used a BLIT
at UW Madison
and loved it, it was way more useful than a terminal and way less
fuss than a full blown windowing system. Felt like the knee of the
curve. All of that over a serial line, that's impressive.
I dunno, but I bet that Rob trys it out just for a trip down memory
lane.
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 04:25:50PM -0700, Seth Morabito wrote:
Hello all,
I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I
wrote
a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 firmware.
It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting directly to a
physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux or macOS with X11
or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows version if you're a
Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows user, but I am not at all
knowledgeable about Windows programming).
Full details are available here:
https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking down
the 8;7;3
firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank Mike
Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring me to get
it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3.
Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
8:12 a.m.
I had a 3B1, very different machine, 68K based, I liked it. The 3B2 was,
well, if I'm being nice, an also ran. It was a thing but it was never
the thing. I've run at least one of the lower end models, it worked
but it was behind the other systems I ran. Cool that they did it,
but like many attempts, not enough ahead.
I have very fond memories of the BLIT terminals, I just liked how much
you got out of a serial cable. Way, way more than anyone else imagined.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:58:38AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote:
Some time ago, Greg Christie, then at Apple, booted up
a 3B2 with a 5620
attached and invited me to play with it. Now _that_ was a trip down memory
lane. (The 3B2, maybe not so much.)
It was a reward for an interview with him, recorded on video, about the
early days of 2d graphics as I saw them, for a course for employees. But
being Apple, even though it was 0% proprietary, it will never see the light
of day.
-rob
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:53 AM Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
> This looks like some really nice work. I used a BLIT at UW Madison
> and loved it, it was way more useful than a terminal and way less
> fuss than a full blown windowing system. Felt like the knee of the
> curve. All of that over a serial line, that's impressive.
>
> I dunno, but I bet that Rob trys it out just for a trip down memory
> lane.
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 04:25:50PM -0700, Seth Morabito wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I
> wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 firmware.
> It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting directly to a
> physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux or macOS with X11
> or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows version if you're a
> Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows user, but I am not at all
> knowledgeable about Windows programming).
> >
> > Full details are available here:
> https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
> >
> > The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
> >
> > Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking down
> the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank Mike
> Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring me to get
> it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3.
> >
> > Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
> >
> > -Seth
> > --
> > Seth Morabito
> > Poulsbo, WA
> > web(a)loomcom.com
>
> --
> ---
> Larry McVoy Retired to fishing
> http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
>
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
7:01 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:12 PM Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
I have very fond memories of the BLIT terminals, I
just liked how much
you got out of a serial cable. Way, way more than anyone else imagined.
I think that is a good way to express it. The client/server paradigm is
really well considered - what belongs on each side. of the link such that
the data that actually had to be sent between them is minimum. It becomes
a solid demonstration of what you need to get a job done.
ᐧ
14 Sep
14 Sep
6:23 a.m.
I wish we had found a consistent way to manage the client/server (or as we
called it, terminal/host) separation. Every program did it a different way,
with varying levels of success. We didn't push hard enough on it at the
time, but Plan 9 came about in part by thinking about the problem, and to
be honest so did JavaScript.
-rob
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:01 PM Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:12 PM Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
I have very fond memories of the BLIT terminals,
I just liked how much
you got out of a serial cable. Way, way more than anyone else imagined.
I think that is a good way to express it. The client/server paradigm is
really well considered - what belongs on each side. of the link such that
the data that actually had to be sent between them is minimum. It becomes
a solid demonstration of what you need to get a job done.
ᐧ
6:33 a.m.
Huh, I thought it was less ad-hoc than that. I never had access to the
source but you could look at what you could do on that terminal and you
just knew that people had put some thought into making high level
commands that knew what the terminal could do.
It was a cool idea. Like anything, you look back and see what you could
have done better, but it was still a cool idea, a big leap ahead from
just a dumb terminal.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 10:23:31AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote:
I wish we had found a consistent way to manage the
client/server (or as we
called it, terminal/host) separation. Every program did it a different way,
with varying levels of success. We didn't push hard enough on it at the
time, but Plan 9 came about in part by thinking about the problem, and to
be honest so did JavaScript.
-rob
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:01 PM Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:12 PM Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
>
>> I have very fond memories of the BLIT terminals, I just liked how much
>> you got out of a serial cable. Way, way more than anyone else imagined.
>>
>
> I think that is a good way to express it. The client/server paradigm is
> really well considered - what belongs on each side. of the link such that
> the data that actually had to be sent between them is minimum. It becomes
> a solid demonstration of what you need to get a job done.
> ???
>
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
1:21 a.m.
On 2022-09-12 22:12, Larry McVoy wrote:
I had a 3B1, very different machine, 68K based, I
liked it.
A 3B1 machine (named Shalosh B. Eckhad, those being
transliterations of the Hebrew words for "three" and "one",
respectively) is listed as coauthor of many papers by
mathematician Doron Zeilberger.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339615667_Shalosh_B_Ekhad_a_comput…
https://sites.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/ekhad/papers.html
Paul Guertin
4:29 a.m.
I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have a
terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_197…
--
josephholsten.com
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote:
Hello all,
I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I
wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5
firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting
directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux
or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows
version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows
user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming).
Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking
down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank
Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring
me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3.
Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
5:35 a.m.
Have you ever run a BLIT? It's basically a windowing system over a
serial line except the protocol is really smart, it knows that the
terminal knows how to do a bunch of stuff.
In my opinion, the best serial line terminal ever built.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:29:39PM -0700, Joseph Holsten wrote:
I was wondering why you???d pick this term of all
historical terms to emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_197…
--
josephholsten.com
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I
> wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5
> firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting
> directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux
> or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows
> version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows
> user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming).
>
> Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
>
> The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
>
> Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking
> down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank
> Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring
> me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3.
>
> Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
>
> -Seth
> --
> Seth Morabito
> Poulsbo, WA
> web(a)loomcom.com
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
9:55 a.m.
I haven’t. I’m not sure how much it differs from the acme experience, but I still miss
them especially the terminal-as-editor. I hear some of the same people may have been
involved.
Which is why I can’t possibly make time for the adm-3a, that never ending hobby project is
already claimed by my desire for acme with syntax highlighting.
/me goes back to working in a :term inside neovim inside tmux inside a mosh session inside
a glorified vt100 emulator, while absolutely not crying about applications being ignorant
of presentation layer for “portability”
--
josephholsten.com
On Sep 13, 2022, at 16:35, Larry McVoy
<lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
Have you ever run a BLIT? It's basically a windowing system over a
serial line except the protocol is really smart, it knows that the
terminal knows how to do a bunch of stuff.
In my opinion, the best serial line terminal ever built.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:29:39PM -0700, Joseph
Holsten wrote:
I was wondering why you???d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have
a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_197…
--
josephholsten.com
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I
> wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5
> firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting
> directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux
> or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows
> version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows
> user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming).
>
> Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
>
> The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
>
> Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking
> down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank
> Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring
> me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3.
>
> Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
>
> -Seth
> --
> Seth Morabito
> Poulsbo, WA
> web(a)loomcom.com
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat 
10:09 p.m.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 8:55 PM Joseph Holsten <joseph(a)josephholsten.com> wrote:
I haven’t. I’m not sure how much it differs from the acme experience, but I still miss
them especially the terminal-as-editor. I hear some of the same people may have been
involved.
Which is why I can’t possibly make time for the adm-3a, that never ending hobby project
is already claimed by my desire for acme with syntax highlighting.
/me goes back to working in a :term inside neovim inside tmux inside a mosh session
inside a glorified vt100 emulator, while absolutely not crying about applications being
ignorant of presentation layer for “portability”
https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/
--
josephholsten.com
On Sep 13, 2022, at 16:35, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
Have you ever run a BLIT? It's basically a windowing system over a
serial line except the protocol is really smart, it knows that the
terminal knows how to do a bunch of stuff.
In my opinion, the best serial line terminal ever built.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:29:39PM -0700, Joseph Holsten wrote:
I was wondering why you???d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have
a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_197…
--
josephholsten.com
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote:
Hello all,
I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I
wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5
firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting
directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux
or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows
version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows
user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming).
Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking
down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank
Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring
me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3.
Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
6:47 a.m.
Yes, Yes! Go for the ADM-3a with the goofy uppercase fonts.
Joe McGuckin
ViaNet Communications
joe(a)via.net
650-207-0372 cell
650-213-1302 office
650-969-2124 fax
On Sep 13, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Joseph Holsten
<joseph(a)josephholsten.com> wrote:
I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have a
terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_197…
--
josephholsten.com
On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I
> wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5
> firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting
> directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux
> or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows
> version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows
> user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming).
>
> Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html
>
> The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk
>
> Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking
> down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank
> Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring
> me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3.
>
> Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome!
>
> -Seth
> --
> Seth Morabito
> Poulsbo, WA
> web(a)loomcom.com
9:10 a.m.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Joseph Holsten wrote:
I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all
historical terms to
emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
I have an ADM-3a in storage, and it is indeed a very fun terminal! In some senses, though,
it's "yet another 80x24 terminal" (albeit, a very cool looking one). The
5620 feels a little more unique to me, and I couldn't let it go un-emulated.
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
9:40 a.m.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:10 PM Seth Morabito <web(a)loomcom.com> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Joseph Holsten wrote:
5620 is Hella cool. But the ADM-3A was the quintessential boring terminal...
Warner
I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all
historical terms to
emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
I have an ADM-3a in storage, and it is indeed a very fun terminal! In some
senses, though, it's "yet another 80x24 terminal" (albeit, a very cool
looking one). The 5620 feels a little more unique to me, and I couldn't let
it go un-emulated.
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
1:48 p.m.
Joseph Holsten wrote:
I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all
historical terms to
emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
Please do! There is a suite of terminal emulators that try to use the
original font and render the display somewhat pleasingly. It includes
VT05, VT50, VT52, DataPoint 3300, and a few more. Arguably it's mostly
eye candy, but I'd say it adds a little retro flair to the experience.
In a similar vein, I have written terminal simulators that run the
original VT100 and VT52 firmware and try to render the video output in
real time.
Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_197…
I have long maintained we need a good teletype emulator... nay,
simulator. Think physics engine.
830
days inactive
832
days old
17 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Clem Cole -
joe mcguckin -
Joseph Holsten -
Kevin Bowling -
Larry McVoy -
Lars Brinkhoff -
Paul Guertin -
Rich Salz -
Rob Pike -
Seth Morabito -
Steve Nickolas -
Warner Losh