15 Aug
2014
15 Aug
'14
8:52 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Brian Zick <brian(a)zickzickzick.com> wrote:
Hmm. So for a TTY that old there would probably be no option for
lowercase. That does sound a little painful, especially if I wanted to edit
modern programs..
Would it still be possible today for someone like
me to go out, and find
an old teletype terminal (an old ASR or DECwriter or
something), set up a
phone line and modem and get a roll of paper, and then actually use it to
connect to other computers?
I know it's not really practical today - but is it possible?
Certainly it's possible. Although you would really only be able to do it
with an ASCII terminal. A DECwriter would work fine. For a Teletype
beast, you would need to make sure it used ASCII. But lacking lower case,
I think you would find it too painful to use, even though all the current
versions of UNIX (and Linux) I'm aware of still seem to support the
necessary case conversion in the tty drivers.
Your biggest obstacle might be finding a host machine
that still has a
modem attached that you could dial in to :-)
So perhaps I could simplify it and attach to a machine sitting next to the
TTY - which then in theory could connect to the outside world via the usual
means. I wonder, has anyone tried something like this?
And, of course, everyone KNOWS the entire universe
runs in terminals that
support ANSI escape sequences for colour and cursor positioning. Who needs
termcap? (I'm looking at you, git. And clang.) So you might find setting
TERM=dumb isn't quite enough.
Also, ed(1) is a wonderful editor on a hardcopy terminal. Unless you run
it on Linux, which KNOWS the whole world runs on 24 line terminal windows,
and therefore ed needs to pause its output.
I usually use vim, but before learning vim I learned ed and used it for
about a 2 month space for editing config files and things, so that should
hopefully be the easy part. :-)
Brian Zick
zickzickzick.com
.:/
,,///;, ,;/
o:::::::;;///
::::::::;;\\\
''\\\\\''
';\
\
15 Aug
15 Aug
9:05 p.m.
New subject: Teletype
A hybrid would be interesting, say a TTY with a Raspberry PI pulling
data from Reuters.com and printing the text ala a "news wire" feed.
An RSS feed would be better than processing the whole page but Reuters
doesn't seem to have one or I couldn't find it.
cnn.com/rss reveals lots of possibilities, however.
This could be fun (and smell like oil and ozone)!
Ed S.
On 8/15/2014 11:52 AM, Brian Zick wrote:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca
<mailto:lyndon@orthanc.ca>> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Brian Zick <brian(a)zickzickzick.com
<mailto:brian@zickzickzick.com>> wrote:
--
Ed Skinner, ed(a)flat5.net, http://www.flat5.net/
Would it still be possible today for someone like
me to go out,
and find an old teletype terminal (an old ASR or DECwriter or
something), set up a phone line and modem and get a roll of paper,
and then actually use it to connect to other computers?
I know it's not really practical today - but is it possible?
Certainly it's possible. Although you would really only be able to
do it with an ASCII terminal. A DECwriter would work fine. For a
Teletype beast, you would need to make sure it used ASCII. But
lacking lower case, I think you would find it too painful to use,
even though all the current versions of UNIX (and Linux) I'm aware
of still seem to support the necessary case conversion in the tty
drivers.
Hmm. So for a TTY that old there would probably be no option for
lowercase. That does sound a little painful, especially if I wanted to
edit modern programs..
Your biggest obstacle might be finding a host machine that still has
a modem attached that you could dial in to :-)
So perhaps I could simplify it and attach to a machine sitting next to
the TTY - which then in theory could connect to the outside world via
the usual means. I wonder, has anyone tried something like this?
And, of course, everyone KNOWS the entire universe runs in terminals
that support ANSI escape sequences for colour and cursor
positioning. Who needs termcap? (I'm looking at you, git. And
clang.) So you might find setting TERM=dumb isn't quite enough.
Also, ed(1) is a wonderful editor on a hardcopy terminal. Unless
you run it on Linux, which KNOWS the whole world runs on 24 line
terminal windows, and therefore ed needs to pause its output.
I usually use vim, but before learning vim I learned ed and used it for
about a 2 month space for editing config files and things, so that
should hopefully be the easy part. :-)
Brian Zick
zickzickzick.com <http://zickzickzick.com/>
.:/
,,///;, ,;/
o:::::::;;///
::::::::;;\\\
''\\\\\'' ';\
\
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9:13 p.m.
New subject: Teletype
On Aug 15, 2014, at 12:05 PM, Ed Skinner <ed(a)flat5.net> wrote:
A hybrid would be interesting, say a TTY with a
Raspberry PI pulling data fromReuters.com and printing the text ala a "news
wire" feed.
An RSS feed would be better than processing the whole page but Reuters doesn't seem
to have one or I couldn't find it.
cnn.com/rss reveals lots of possibilities, however.
This could be fun (and smell like oil and ozone)!
Ed S.
Could we make an auto-feed for the MHRS[1] weekend RTTY news transmissions? They
probably have the biggest collection of working and *in* *production* mills on the planet
:-)
--lyndon (VE0WX / CFG7344)
[1] http://radiomarine.org
11:07 p.m.
New subject: Teletype
Brian,
The easiest thing is set up a BSD box of any flavor (I have a FreeBSD box
that used to have modems on it). Then grab a USB to RS-232C cable if it
does not have a serial ports on it already. Make sure there is a
getty/login configured for the port and your are set. At that point you
can directly attach the terminal to the cable. No need for the modem.
You will get the user effect, accept for the sounds of the modem connecting
and dealing with dialing itself. If you wanted those, you could of course
put the terminal on a modem and connect the BSD system to a modem. Then
either use to two POTS lines if you want to spend money from the TPC.
Actually thinking about, you could also set up a POTS line emulator (which
if you google you can make one pretty easily).
Funny, just this AM, I put into the the electronics recycling box at work 4
telebit "Worldblazer" modems and a POTS line emulator (and a bunch of other
old junk). I've been clean out my basement and I knew I would never use
those again.
Clem
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Brian Zick <brian(a)zickzickzick.com> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Brian Zick <brian(a)zickzickzick.com> wrote:
Hmm. So for a TTY that old there would probably be no option for
lowercase. That does sound a little painful, especially if I wanted to edit
modern programs..
Would it still be possible today for someone like
me to go out, and
find an old teletype terminal (an old ASR or DECwriter or
something), set
up a phone line and modem and get a roll of paper, and then actually use it
to connect to other computers?
I know it's not really practical today - but is it possible?
Certainly it's possible. Although you would really only be able to do it
with an ASCII terminal. A DECwriter would work fine. For a Teletype
beast, you would need to make sure it used ASCII. But lacking lower case,
I think you would find it too painful to use, even though all the current
versions of UNIX (and Linux) I'm aware of still seem to support the
necessary case conversion in the tty drivers.
Your biggest obstacle might be finding a host
machine that still has a
modem attached that you could dial in to :-)
So perhaps I could simplify it and attach to a machine sitting next to
the TTY - which then in theory could connect to the outside world via the
usual means. I wonder, has anyone tried something like this?
And, of course, everyone KNOWS the entire
universe runs in terminals that
support ANSI escape sequences for colour and cursor positioning. Who needs
termcap? (I'm looking at you, git. And clang.) So you might find setting
TERM=dumb isn't quite enough.
Also, ed(1) is a wonderful editor on a hardcopy terminal. Unless you run
it on Linux, which KNOWS the whole world runs on 24 line terminal windows,
and therefore ed needs to pause its output.
I usually use vim, but before learning vim I learned ed and used it for
about a 2 month space for editing config files and things, so that should
hopefully be the easy part. :-)
Brian Zick
zickzickzick.com
.:/
,,///;, ,;/
o:::::::;;///
::::::::;;\\\
''\\\\\'' ';\
\
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
11:23 p.m.
New subject: Teletype
I have a decwriter la120 which similar to Clem Cole's suggestion is
connected to a Raspberry Pi via a usb2rs232 adapter. (Yes, i have a wifi
la120.)
Its works pretty well, just add a getty in inittab on the /dev/usbTTY0 and
bingo. (Yes you will miss the modem connect sounds)
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
Brian,
The easiest thing is set up a BSD box of any flavor (I have a FreeBSD box
that used to have modems on it). Then grab a USB to RS-232C cable if it
does not have a serial ports on it already. Make sure there is a
getty/login configured for the port and your are set. At that point you
can directly attach the terminal to the cable. No need for the modem.
You will get the user effect, accept for the sounds of the modem
connecting and dealing with dialing itself. If you wanted those, you could
of course put the terminal on a modem and connect the BSD system to a
modem. Then either use to two POTS lines if you want to spend money from
the TPC. Actually thinking about, you could also set up a POTS line
emulator (which if you google you can make one pretty easily).
Funny, just this AM, I put into the the electronics recycling box at work
4 telebit "Worldblazer" modems and a POTS line emulator (and a bunch of
other old junk). I've been clean out my basement and I knew I would never
use those again.
Clem
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Brian Zick <brian(a)zickzickzick.com>
wrote:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
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On Aug 15, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Brian Zick <brian(a)zickzickzick.com> wrote:
Hmm. So for a TTY that old there would probably be no option for
lowercase. That does sound a little painful, especially if I wanted to edit
modern programs..
Would it still be possible today for someone like
me to go out, and
find an old teletype terminal (an old ASR or DECwriter or
something), set
up a phone line and modem and get a roll of paper, and then actually use it
to connect to other computers?
I know it's not really practical today - but is it possible?
Certainly it's possible. Although you would really only be able to do
it with an ASCII terminal. A DECwriter would work fine. For a Teletype
beast, you would need to make sure it used ASCII. But lacking lower case,
I think you would find it too painful to use, even though all the current
versions of UNIX (and Linux) I'm aware of still seem to support the
necessary case conversion in the tty drivers.
Your biggest obstacle might be finding a host
machine that still has a
modem attached that you could dial in to :-)
So perhaps I could simplify it and attach to a machine sitting next to
the TTY - which then in theory could connect to the outside world via the
usual means. I wonder, has anyone tried something like this?
And, of course, everyone KNOWS the entire
universe runs in terminals
that support ANSI escape sequences for colour and cursor positioning. Who
needs termcap? (I'm looking at you, git. And clang.) So you might find
setting TERM=dumb isn't quite enough.
Also, ed(1) is a wonderful editor on a hardcopy terminal. Unless you
run it on Linux, which KNOWS the whole world runs on 24 line terminal
windows, and therefore ed needs to pause its output.
I usually use vim, but before learning vim I learned ed and used it for
about a 2 month space for editing config files and things, so that should
hopefully be the easy part. :-)
Brian Zick
zickzickzick.com
.:/
,,///;, ,;/
o:::::::;;///
::::::::;;\\\
''\\\\\'' ';\
\
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
18 Aug
18 Aug
7:54 a.m.
New subject: Teletype
It turns out,I was really asking two related questions: can I use a
teletype today, and can I dial-in using a modem using the teletype. And the
answer to both looks like yes, but just using a teletype looks easier than
trying to dial-in like in former days.
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
The easiest thing is set up a BSD box of any flavor (I
have a FreeBSD box
that used to have modems on it). Then grab a USB to RS-232C cable if it
does not have a serial ports on it already. Make sure there is a
getty/login configured for the port and your are set. At that point you
can directly attach the terminal to the cable. No need for the modem.
I have an old G5 Mac Pro that should do great for this job. My dad is also
a NetBSD hacker going way back (actually he has a thing for running NetBSD
on old Amigas), so I can also get some help from him with the BSD bit if I
need it.
On eBay I was able to find an old Teletype Model 43, which appears to be an
ASCII terminal and is supposed to have an RS232 port. Nice. This model was
apparently also used by the distinguished Bill Gates back in the day. Also
it has an impressively large "return" key.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Teletype-Model-43-Ships-Worldwide/191271387173
http://comley.us/browse.php?&action=show&artefactID=1007
It'a $174 dollars with about $40 for shipping, so hopefully I'll be able to
swing that before someone else buys it. :-) Maybe I'll be able to get one
of my coworkers to go in on it with me. The idea is really enticing.
The fun of trying to do something in this now novel way is really great. I
was thinking I might try using it for my email. The news-ticker idea also
seems great, although honestly I get most of my news from HN or Digg (which
may or may not be the best place to get news from), so I would be more
likely to set those up. The other thing I was thinking: I have an old phone
hooked up through XMPP (which I use as my home phone) and I could use a TTY
as the caller ID, with a little clever programming.
I'm really excited that this not only seems possible but nearly in reach.
Brian Zick
zickzickzick.com
.:/
,,///;, ,;/
o:::::::;;///
::::::::;;\\\
''\\\\\''
';\
\
16 Aug
16 Aug
12:25 p.m.
New subject: Teletype
Brian Zick <brian(a)zickzickzick.com> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg
<lyndon(a)orthanc.ca>
wrote:
[...]
> Also, ed(1) is a wonderful editor on a hardcopy
terminal. Unless
> you run it on Linux, which KNOWS the whole world runs on 24 line
> terminal windows, and therefore ed needs to pause its output.
I'm not seeing the >> message from Lyndon Nerenberg on the ML, anyway I
just wanted to report that GNU Ed 1.6 doesn't pause output on this Linux
system, so there must be something in your local configuration that's
getting Ed to behave that way.
(Typed this with GNU Ed 1.6 on Slackware 14)
--
Dario Niedermann. Also on the Internet at:
gopher://retro-net.org/1/dnied/ , http://devio.us/~ndr/
3745
days inactive
3748
days old
6 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Brian Zick -
Clem Cole -
Dario Niedermann -
Ed Skinner -
Hoskins, Matthew E. -
Lyndon Nerenberg