1 Apr
2010
1 Apr
'10
12:20 a.m.
I was idly going through the 1999 Swartz memo
(http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Swartz.pdf) wherein the source code of
RedHat 5.2 and UnixWare are compared for similarities. Most of those
are either bogus (just some #includes) or BSD-derived code. There is
one file which is concerning: drand48.c. The RedHat 5.2 file is very
similar to the UnixWare file, including headers and #ifdef's e.g.
/* @(#)drand48.c 2.2 */
/*LINTLIBRARY*/
/*
* drand48, etc. pseudo-random number generator
* This implementation assumes unsigned short integers of at least
* 16 bits, long integers of at least 32 bits, and ignores
* overflows on adding or multiplying two unsigned integers.
* Two's-complement representation is assumed in a few places.
* Some extra masking is done if unsigneds are exactly 16 bits
* or longs are exactly 32 bits, but so what?
* An assembly-language implementation would run significantly faster.
*/
#include <stdlib.h>
#ifndef HAVEFP
#define HAVEFP 1
#endif
As far as I can determine, drand48() arrived in SysVR1 and is defined
in the first SVID. It doesn't appear in SysIII, nor in the early BSDs.
Can anybody shed some light on drand48()? Could it have been written
elsewhere and made available e.g on a Usenix tape or comp.sources.*,
and included into SysV, or is SysV the origin of the code?
I'm sure the algorithm comes from elsewhere, e.g. Knuth, but the
strong code similarity is a worry.
Thanks,
Warren
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1 Apr
1 Apr
3:23 a.m.
Warren Toomey scripsit:
As far as I can determine, drand48() arrived in SysVR1
and is defined
in the first SVID. It doesn't appear in SysIII, nor in the early BSDs.
Can anybody shed some light on drand48()? Could it have been written
elsewhere and made available e.g on a Usenix tape or comp.sources.*,
and included into SysV, or is SysV the origin of the code?
FWIW, the code appears in OpenSolaris with an AT&T 1988 copyright header.
It's been generified and given a CDDL license and Sun Microsystems 2008
copyright header.
There are a bunch of other copies floating around *without* an AT&T
copyright, e.g.
http://cs.nyu.edu/~yap/classes/visual/data/ply/cygwin-version/ply/drand48.c .
I'm sure the algorithm comes from elsewhere, e.g.
Knuth, but the
strong code similarity is a worry.
It's a linear congruential generator with multiplier 25214903917,
addend 11, and modulus 2^48, so there's nothing special about that.
LCGs are indeed discussed in Knuth volume 2.
--
John Cowan cowan(a)ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan
Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to [Sam], a grey-clad
moving hill. Fear and wonder, maybe, enlarged him in the hobbit's eyes,
but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk, and the like of him
does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are
but memories of his girth and his majesty. --"Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit"
4:01 a.m.
Hi John.
I suspect it is really ATT source. There is a lot more of that around
than people admit.
I also suspect it doesn't matter. Your points about how it works are
part of it, but the bigger part is that Unix, at this point, has very
little IP value. It's mostly there in Linux et al.
--lm
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 09:23:00PM -0400, John Cowan wrote:
Warren Toomey scripsit:
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
As far as I can determine, drand48() arrived in
SysVR1 and is defined
in the first SVID. It doesn't appear in SysIII, nor in the early BSDs.
Can anybody shed some light on drand48()? Could it have been written
elsewhere and made available e.g on a Usenix tape or comp.sources.*,
and included into SysV, or is SysV the origin of the code?
FWIW, the code appears in OpenSolaris with an AT&T 1988 copyright header.
It's been generified and given a CDDL license and Sun Microsystems 2008
copyright header.
There are a bunch of other copies floating around *without* an AT&T
copyright, e.g.
http://cs.nyu.edu/~yap/classes/visual/data/ply/cygwin-version/ply/drand48.c .
I'm sure the algorithm comes from elsewhere,
e.g. Knuth, but the
strong code similarity is a worry.
It's a linear congruential generator with multiplier 25214903917,
addend 11, and modulus 2^48, so there's nothing special about that.
LCGs are indeed discussed in Knuth volume 2.
--
John Cowan cowan(a)ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan
Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to [Sam], a grey-clad
moving hill. Fear and wonder, maybe, enlarged him in the hobbit's eyes,
but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk, and the like of him
does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are
but memories of his girth and his majesty. --"Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit"
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https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs 
4:23 a.m.
In message: <20100401020155.GG18965(a)bitmover.com>
Larry McVoy <lm(a)bitmover.com> writes:
: I suspect it is really ATT source. There is a lot more of that around
: than people admit.
Yea. Lots of snippets make their way into all kinds of different
systems. Linux and BSD, although much of what's in the latter was
been blessed by USL and has their copyright notice (and permission to
copy).
: I also suspect it doesn't matter. Your points about how it works are
: part of it, but the bigger part is that Unix, at this point, has very
: little IP value. It's mostly there in Linux et al.
This is also true. Part of the problem here too is that it isn't
clear that this code is actually copyrighted or not. This was part of
the AT&T vs BSD case: due to lack of copyright notices, many works
that AT&T thought they had a copyright on they don't. This is one of
the main reasons why they settled the suit with Berkeley.... Of
course, in this instance, if Warren can't find it in the BSD archives,
then it likely wasn't in 32V...
Warner
: --lm
:
: On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 09:23:00PM -0400, John Cowan wrote:
: > Warren Toomey scripsit:
: >
: > > As far as I can determine, drand48() arrived in SysVR1 and is defined
: > > in the first SVID. It doesn't appear in SysIII, nor in the early BSDs.
: > > Can anybody shed some light on drand48()? Could it have been written
: > > elsewhere and made available e.g on a Usenix tape or comp.sources.*,
: > > and included into SysV, or is SysV the origin of the code?
: >
: > FWIW, the code appears in OpenSolaris with an AT&T 1988 copyright header.
: > It's been generified and given a CDDL license and Sun Microsystems 2008
: > copyright header.
: >
: > There are a bunch of other copies floating around *without* an AT&T
: > copyright, e.g.
: > http://cs.nyu.edu/~yap/classes/visual/data/ply/cygwin-version/ply/drand48.c .
: >
: > > I'm sure the algorithm comes from elsewhere, e.g. Knuth, but the
: > > strong code similarity is a worry.
: >
: > It's a linear congruential generator with multiplier 25214903917,
: > addend 11, and modulus 2^48, so there's nothing special about that.
: > LCGs are indeed discussed in Knuth volume 2.
: >
: > --
: > John Cowan cowan(a)ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan
: > Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to [Sam], a grey-clad
: > moving hill. Fear and wonder, maybe, enlarged him in the hobbit's eyes,
: > but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk, and the like of him
: > does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are
: > but memories of his girth and his majesty. --"Of Herbs and Stewed
Rabbit"
: > _______________________________________________
: > TUHS mailing list
: > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
: > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
:
: --
: ---
: Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
: _______________________________________________
: TUHS mailing list
: TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
: https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
:
:
9:06 a.m.
I suspect that Larry is almost certainly correct and, as best I can recall I
came to exactly the same conclusion when I looked at it some 12 years
or so ago.
The old SCO may have been hoping to find some evidence that Linux had
in some way used some copyrighted UNIX source code, but management
was neither completely clueless or insane and it was perfectly obvious to
everyone that looked at Bob Swartz's report that there was simply nothing
of any significance there.
md
md
--- On Wed, 3/31/10, Larry McVoy <lm(a)bitmover.com> wrote:
From: Larry McVoy <lm(a)bitmover.com>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Origins of drand48()?
To: "John Cowan" <cowan(a)ccil.org>
Cc: tuhs(a)tuhs.org, "Warren Toomey" <wkt(a)tuhs.org>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 7:01 PM
Hi John.
I suspect it is really ATT source. There is a lot more of that around
than people admit.
I also suspect it doesn't matter. Your points about how it works are
part of it, but the bigger part is that Unix, at this point, has very
little IP value. It's mostly there in Linux et al.
--lm
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 09:23:00PM -0400, John Cowan wrote:
Warren Toomey scripsit:
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
As far as I can determine, drand48() arrived in
SysVR1 and is defined
in the first SVID. It doesn't appear in SysIII, nor in the early BSDs.
Can anybody shed some light on drand48()? Could it have been written
elsewhere and made available e.g on a Usenix tape or comp.sources.*,
and included into SysV, or is SysV the origin of the code?
FWIW, the code appears in OpenSolaris with an AT&T 1988 copyright header.
It's been generified and given a CDDL license and Sun Microsystems 2008
copyright header.
There are a bunch of other copies floating around *without* an AT&T
copyright, e.g.
http://cs.nyu.edu/~yap/classes/visual/data/ply/cygwin-version/ply/drand48.c .
I'm sure the algorithm comes from elsewhere,
e.g. Knuth, but the
strong code similarity is a worry.
It's a linear congruential generator with multiplier 25214903917,
addend 11, and modulus 2^48, so there's nothing special about that.
LCGs are indeed discussed in Knuth volume 2.
--
John Cowan cowan(a)ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan
Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to [Sam], a grey-clad
moving hill. Fear and wonder, maybe, enlarged him in the hobbit's eyes,
but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk, and the like of him
does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are
but memories of his girth and his majesty. --"Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit"
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs 
2 Apr
2 Apr
1:39 a.m.
Warren Toomey a écrit :
I was idly going through the 1999 Swartz memo
(http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Swartz.pdf) wherein the source code of
RedHat 5.2 and UnixWare are compared for similarities. Most of those
are either bogus (just some #includes) or BSD-derived code. There is
one file which is concerning: drand48.c. The RedHat 5.2 file is very
similar to the UnixWare file, including headers and #ifdef's e.g.
/* @(#)drand48.c 2.2 */
/*LINTLIBRARY*/
/*
* drand48, etc. pseudo-random number generator
* This implementation assumes unsigned short integers of at least
* 16 bits, long integers of at least 32 bits, and ignores
* overflows on adding or multiplying two unsigned integers.
* Two's-complement representation is assumed in a few places.
* Some extra masking is done if unsigneds are exactly 16 bits
* or longs are exactly 32 bits, but so what?
* An assembly-language implementation would run significantly faster.
*/
As far as I can determine, drand48() arrived in SysVR1 and is defined
in the first SVID. It doesn't appear in SysIII, nor in the early BSDs.
Can anybody shed some light on drand48()? Could it have been written
elsewhere and made available e.g on a Usenix tape or comp.sources.*,
and included into SysV, or is SysV the origin of the code?
Hi Warern,
the older (c) I found is 1984, but SVR1 seems to be born in 1983 !
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V say SVR2 is 1984)
as far as I recall me, SVID1 is SVR2, not SVR1.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVID say SVID1 is 1985)
11231 1995-07-18 23:34 ./aix/4.1.3/bos/usr/ccs/lib/libc/drand48.c
* Copyright (c) 1984 AT&T
* All Rights Reserved
...
* drand48.c 1.7 com/lib/c/gen,3.1,8943 10/11/89 13:47:39
4163 1989-09-21 22:59 ./irix/3.7/lib/libc/common/gen/drand48.c
no cpyr
5627 1999-12-03 09:24 ./irix/6.5.5/f/irix/lib/libc/src/math/drand48.c
5627 1999-12-03 09:31 ./irix/6.5.5/m/irix/lib/libc/src/math/drand48.c
/* Copyright (c) 1990, 1991 UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. */
/* Copyright (c) 1988 AT&T */
/* All Rights Reserved */
...
* Copyright 1995, Silicon Graphics, Inc.
* All Rights Reserved.
...
* Reimplementation of drand48 using 64-bit arithmetic. Drand48 is
* a 48-bit linear congruential random number generator,
...
12882 1994-03-02 17:46
./osf1/osf1src/usr/opt/OSC200/src/usr/ccs/lib/libc/drand48.c
* * Copyright (c) Digital Equipment Corporation, 1991, 1994 *
...
* (c) Copyright 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 OPEN SOFTWARE FOUNDATION, INC.
* ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
...
* (C) COPYRIGHT International Business Machines Corp. 1985, 1989
* All Rights Reserved
...
* Copyright (c) 1984 AT&T
* All Rights Reserved
...
* drand48.c 1.7 com/lib/c/gen,3.1,8943 10/11/89 13:47:39
3279 1997-01-10 18:05
./solaris/Solaris_2.6/os_net/src_ws/usr/src/lib/libbc/libc/gen/common/drand48.c
no cpyr
#pragma ident "(a)(#)drand48.c 1.4 96/05/05 SMI" /* from S5R2 2.2 */
5101 1997-01-10 18:05
./solaris/Solaris_2.6/os_net/src_ws/usr/src/lib/libc/port/gen/drand48.c
/* Copyright (c) 1988 AT&T */
/* All Rights Reserved */
...
#ident "(a)(#)drand48.c 1.12 96/05/05 SMI" /* SVr4.0 2.4.1.7 */
5281 2000-10-14 18:08
./solaris/Solaris_2.8/osnet_volume/usr/src/lib/libc/port/gen/drand48.c
/* Copyright (c) 1988 AT&T */
/* All Rights Reserved */
...
* Copyright(c) 1996, by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
* All rights reserved.
...
#pragma ident "(a)(#)drand48.c 1.14 96/11/15 SMI" /* SVr4.0 2.4.1.7 */
4247 1995-01-18 18:53 ./sunos/solaris_112/lib/libc/gen/common/drand48.c
no cpyr
static char sccsid[] = "(a)(#)drand48.c 1.1 94/10/31 SMI"; /* from S5R2
2.2 */
4147 1992-07-22 17:26 ./ultrix/lib/libc/gen/drand48.c
/* @(#)drand48.c 2.2 */
4745 1994-01-23 00:02 ./usl/src/common/lib/libc/port/gen/drand48.c
/* Copyright (c) 1990, 1991, 1992 UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. */
/* Copyright (c) 1988, 1990 AT&T */
/* All Rights Reserved */
...
#ident "@(#)libc-port:gen/drand48.c 2.4.2.1"
4514 Jan 23 1988
./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1-src/ultrix11-src.tar.gz/src/libc/sysV/drand48.c
* Copyright (c) Digital Equipment Corporation 1984, 1985, 1986. *
* All Rights Reserved. *
...
/* SCCSID: @(#)drand48.c 3.0 4/22/86 */
/* (System 5) 2.2 */
Regards,
Cyrille Lefevre
--
mailto:Cyrille.Lefevre-lists@laposte.net
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2:17 a.m.
Cyrille Lefevre scripsit:
the older (c) I found is 1984, but SVR1 seems to be
born in 1983 !
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V say SVR2 is 1984)
as far as I recall me, SVID1 is SVR2, not SVR1.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVID say SVID1 is 1985)
In any case, the code is in a practical sense unencumbered due to the
release of OpenSolaris, because it's embedded inside the OpenSolaris
wrapper essentially unchanged.
--
Is a chair finely made tragic or comic? Is the John Cowan
portrait of Mona Lisa good if I desire to see cowan(a)ccil.org
it? Is the bust of Sir Philip Crampton lyrical, http://ccil.org/~cowan
epical or dramatic? If a man hacking in fury
at a block of wood make there an image of a cow,
is that image a work of art? If not, why not? --Stephen Dedalus
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2:39 a.m.
For the record, I'd be a little careful with what you state here.
I've been here for a while and there has been stuff flying by that
makes me cringe.
I'd like Unix to be free too, see
http://bitmover.com/lm/papers/srcos.html
but I also respect copyright and other IP laws.
I'm somewhat alarmed by what's flying by. Not from you, John, but others.
Like it or not, those companies have rights. And also for the record,
I looked over the code in the SCO thing, and they were right IMHO.
Just too stupid to prove it.
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 08:17:14PM -0400, John Cowan wrote:
Cyrille Lefevre scripsit:
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
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the older (c) I found is 1984, but SVR1 seems to
be born in 1983 !
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V say SVR2 is 1984)
as far as I recall me, SVID1 is SVR2, not SVR1.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVID say SVID1 is 1985)
In any case, the code is in a practical sense unencumbered due to the
release of OpenSolaris, because it's embedded inside the OpenSolaris
wrapper essentially unchanged.
--
Is a chair finely made tragic or comic? Is the John Cowan
portrait of Mona Lisa good if I desire to see cowan(a)ccil.org
it? Is the bust of Sir Philip Crampton lyrical, http://ccil.org/~cowan
epical or dramatic? If a man hacking in fury
at a block of wood make there an image of a cow,
is that image a work of art? If not, why not? --Stephen Dedalus
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3:10 a.m.
A year ago I called novell asking for a sysv license... They had no idea what I was
talking about...
Do you think it's either worth regressing sol10 to it's older state by chopping
stuff out, or calling novel again?
I know I was lucky to get a hobbiest sysIII license back from old sco (lol is that even
valid??????)
Unix got fun when it got more open, but now it feels like the lawyers are going to lock it
all up again...
-- Sent from my Palm Prē
On Apr 1, 2010 8:39 PM, Larry McVoy &lt;lm(a)bitmover.com&gt; wrote:
For the record, I'd be a little careful with what you state here.
I've been here for a while and there has been stuff flying by that
makes me cringe.
I'd like Unix to be free too, see
http://bitmover.com/lm/papers/srcos.html
but I also respect copyright and other IP laws.
I'm somewhat alarmed by what's flying by. Not from you, John, but others.
Like it or not, those companies have rights. And also for the record,
I looked over the code in the SCO thing, and they were right IMHO.
Just too stupid to prove it.
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 08:17:14PM -0400, John Cowan wrote:
> Cyrille Lefevre scripsit:
>
> > the older (c) I found is 1984, but SVR1 seems to be born in 1983 !
> > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V say SVR2 is 1984)
> > as far as I recall me, SVID1 is SVR2, not SVR1.
> > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVID say SVID1 is 1985)
>
> In any case, the code is in a practical sense unencumbered due to the
> release of OpenSolaris, because it's embedded inside the OpenSolaris
> wrapper essentially unchanged.
>
> --
> Is a chair finely made tragic or comic? Is the John Cowan
> portrait of Mona Lisa good if I desire to see cowan(a)ccil.org
> it? Is the bust of Sir Philip Crampton lyrical, http://ccil.org/~cowan
> epical or dramatic? If a man hacking in fury
> at a block of wood make there an image of a cow,
> is that image a work of art? If not, why not? --Stephen Dedalus
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com
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8 comments
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participants (7)
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Cyrille Lefevre -
Jason Stevens -
John Cowan -
Larry McVoy -
M. Warner Losh -
Michael Davidson -
Warren Toomey