13 Mar
2023
13 Mar
'23
4:12 p.m.
Thinking a bit more about terminal multiplexing was a major use case for early X, I
recalled using Linux virtual consoles in the late 90’s for this purpose.
According to Wikipedia, virtual consoles originated with Xenix and before that with
concurrent CP/M.
Perusing the documentation of those on Bitsavers, I can see that virtual consoles have a
prominent mention in the manual for concurrent CP/M (1983), but not those of its
forerunners MP/M II and MP/M (1979). I cannot find a mention of virtual consoles in Xenix
documentation as late as 1988.
No such thing as a virtual (as distinct from pseudo) tty on 16-bit Unix or early 32-bit,
as far as I know; one could argue it does not make much sense with physical terminals.
Wikipedia says no such thing existed on SunOS either.
I think virtual consoles where present in Linux from a very early point.
So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were invented for concurrent CP/M around 1983,
made their way to Xenix in the late 80’s and became part of Linux in the early 90’s.
Have I missed other prior art?
13 Mar
13 Mar
4:24 p.m.
The virtual consoles using the function keys predate Linux and 386BSD by a
number of years. I used them only early x86 Unix ports to the IBM PC such
as Xenix.
FWIW I think Minix for the 8088 may have supported them - be
worth checking.
I have no memories off them on the 8 bit systems when concurrency was
added but I did but do much them.
I would not have been surprised that predates the x86 versions of
different systems. I.e. I have vague memories of something using the
function keys on the PDP-10s switching between screens but that was long
ago.
My bet would be to look at ITS, WAITES and Twenex for the origin story.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:13 AM Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
wrote:
Thinking a bit more about terminal multiplexing was a
major use case for
early X, I recalled using Linux virtual consoles in the late 90’s for this
purpose.
According to Wikipedia, virtual consoles originated with Xenix and before
that with concurrent CP/M.
Perusing the documentation of those on Bitsavers, I can see that virtual
consoles have a prominent mention in the manual for concurrent CP/M (1983),
but not those of its forerunners MP/M II and MP/M (1979). I cannot find a
mention of virtual consoles in Xenix documentation as late as 1988.
No such thing as a virtual (as distinct from pseudo) tty on 16-bit Unix or
early 32-bit, as far as I know; one could argue it does not make much sense
with physical terminals. Wikipedia says no such thing existed on SunOS
either.
I think virtual consoles where present in Linux from a very early point.
So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were invented for concurrent
CP/M around 1983, made their way to Xenix in the late 80’s and became part
of Linux in the early 90’s.
Have I missed other prior art?
--
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
4:27 p.m.
Paul - one more thing. In PDP-10 land, I think they would have called
them 'sessions' but it was a similar idea - although the PC versions since
they also provided the 'terminal emulation' had to do a bit more.
ᐧ
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:24 AM Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
The virtual consoles using the function keys predate
Linux and 386BSD by a
number of years. I used them only early x86 Unix ports to the IBM PC such
as Xenix.
FWIW I think Minix for the 8088 may have supported them - be
worth checking.
I have no memories off them on the 8 bit systems when concurrency was
added but I did but do much them.
I would not have been surprised that predates the x86 versions of
different systems. I.e. I have vague memories of something using the
function keys on the PDP-10s switching between screens but that was long
ago.
My bet would be to look at ITS, WAITES and Twenex for the origin story.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:13 AM Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
wrote:
Thinking a bit more about terminal multiplexing
was a major use case for
early X, I recalled using Linux virtual consoles in the late 90’s for this
purpose.
According to Wikipedia, virtual consoles originated with Xenix and before
that with concurrent CP/M.
Perusing the documentation of those on Bitsavers, I can see that virtual
consoles have a prominent mention in the manual for concurrent CP/M (1983),
but not those of its forerunners MP/M II and MP/M (1979). I cannot find a
mention of virtual consoles in Xenix documentation as late as 1988.
No such thing as a virtual (as distinct from pseudo) tty on 16-bit Unix
or early 32-bit, as far as I know; one could argue it does not make much
sense with physical terminals. Wikipedia says no such thing existed on
SunOS either.
I think virtual consoles where present in Linux from a very early point.
So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were invented for concurrent
CP/M around 1983, made their way to Xenix in the late 80’s and became part
of Linux in the early 90’s.
Have I missed other prior art?
--
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
5:17 p.m.
On 3/13/23, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
one more thing. In PDP-10 land, I think they would
have called
them 'sessions' but it was a similar idea - although the PC versions since
they also provided the 'terminal emulation' had to do a bit more.
TOPS-10/20 had the concept of pseudo-terminals (PTYs)--objects in the
OS that appear to be terminals to user mode software (and most of the
kernel as well). There was a utility called PTYCON (PTY CONtroller)
that would let one manage several login sessions (each on its own
pseudo-terminal) from a single terminal (which could of course itself
be a PTY).
IIRC PTYCON had the ability to split the VT-100 screen so that you
could view more than one PTY session at a time. Poor man's windows.
-Paul W.
4:41 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 9:24 AM Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
FWIW I think Minix for the 8088 may have supported
them - be
worth checking.
Minix 1.1 and 1.2 didn't have them. Unsure of later versions since they
aren't packaged nicely for quick checking.
Coherent didn't seem to have them, but it's kinda hard to tell for sure
without more study.
My bet would be to look at ITS, WAITES and Twenex for
the origin story.
TOPS-20 had a way to attach and detach from a PTY. But they didn't keep
the state of the screen... programs did, but not the kernel.
Warner
4:48 p.m.
Coherent had the beginnings of X. Not so good , but it worked.
Ken
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:41 AM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 9:24 AM Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
--
End of line
JOB TERMINATED
FWIW I think Minix for the 8088 may have
supported them - be
worth checking.
Minix 1.1 and 1.2 didn't have them. Unsure of later versions since they
aren't packaged nicely for quick checking.
Coherent didn't seem to have them, but it's kinda hard to tell for sure
without more study.
My bet would be to look at ITS, WAITES and Twenex
for the origin story.
TOPS-20 had a way to attach and detach from a PTY. But they didn't keep
the state of the screen... programs did, but not the kernel.
Warner
4:48 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:41 AM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
TOPS-20 had a way to attach and detach from a PTY.
But they didn't keep
the state of the screen... programs did, but not the kernel.
That makes sense and is probably what I remember. The big difference when
the 8/16 micros came along what the built-in display and thus the need to
create a "terminal emulator."
ᐧ
5:14 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:41 AM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
Yes, one could detach and reattach sessions, but not only did they not
preserve the state of the screen, they didn't preserve the state of
the terminal; reattaching a session puts you back in TTY mode, though
one could set it back up that in COMAND.CMD.
- Dan C.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 9:24 AM Clem Cole
<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
I seem to recall that COHERENT _did_ have them, at least in version 4,
but it's been a while.
FWIW I think Minix for the 8088 may have supported them - be worth checking.
Minix 1.1 and 1.2 didn't have them. Unsure of later versions since they aren't
packaged nicely for quick checking.
Coherent didn't seem to have them, but it's kinda hard to tell for sure without
more study. My bet would
be to look at ITS, WAITES and Twenex for the origin story.
TOPS-20 had a way to attach and detach from a PTY. But they didn't keep the state
of the screen... programs did, but not the kernel. 
6:26 p.m.
Coherent
didn't seem to have them, but it's kinda hard to tell for sure without more
study.
I seem to recall that COHERENT _did_ have them, at least in version 4,
but it's been a while.
9:35 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 1:26 PM Miod Vallat <miod(a)online.fr> wrote:
I have just checked the 3.1 manual and there is no mention of it, so if
there ever were virtual consoles in COHERENT they were introduced after
3.1.
According to the lexicon for version 4
(https://www.nesssoftware.com/home/mwc/doc/coherent/manual/pdf/v.pdf)
virtual consoles are a feature.
- Dan C.
Coherent didn't seem to have them, but it's
kinda hard to tell for sure without more study.
I seem to recall that COHERENT _did_ have them, at least in version 4,
but it's been a while. 
14 Mar
14 Mar
5:42 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:24:24AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
The virtual consoles using the function keys predate
Linux and 386BSD by a
number of years. I used them only early x86 Unix ports to the IBM PC such
as Xenix.
I'm pretty sure that the 386 version of ISC UNIX I used on a PC in the '88/89
timeframe had them. I vaguely recall it having a more awkward key sequence
than Linux for switching between consoles.
Here we go:
https://virtuallyfun.com/2010/02/09/fun-with-interactive-unix/
"On a text console side, the OS has virtual consoles switchable via SYSRQ + F key.
Console is on F8."
DF
11:46 p.m.
On 3/14/2023 11:42 AM, Derek Fawcus via TUHS wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:24:24AM -0400, Clem Cole
wrote:
The real question in my mind is whether PC/IX had this sort of thing.
PC/IX was the first Unix I used regularly, and my recollection is that
it did have something along these lines, but Heinz or someone else with
ISC back then might be able to say definitively.
When I got a PC/AT, I started using (SCO?) Xenix because it better
utilized the hardware than PC/IX. I'm pretty sure Clem is correct that
Xenix had virtual consoles selected by the function keys.
AIX for the RT/PC definitely had such virtual consoles from the
beginning. See the article by Baker et al in the RT Book
(https://technologists.com/sauer/SA23-1057_IBM_RT_Personal_Computer_Technolo…)
By the time I had my own RT, we had X in AIX, so I probably chose to use
xterms.
I'm pretty sure that the SVR3 Dell Unix would have had these along the
lines described by Antoni, cited above, since SVR3 Dell Unix began with
code from ISC, probably a little earlier than what Antoni used. I
probably chose to use xterms instead.
I just powered up my Dell 450DGX (“JAWS”) and verified that the
SVR4-based Dell Unix had such virtual consoles. man keyboard excerpt:
Switching Screens
To change screens (virtual terminals), first run the vtlmgr command
[see vtlmgr(1M)]. Switch the current screen by typing ALT-SYSREQ
(also labelled ALT-PRINTSCRN on some systems) followed by a key which
identifies the desired screen. Any active screen may be selected by
following ALT-SYSREQ with Fn, where Fn is one of the function keys.
F1 refers to the first virtual terminal screen, F2 refers to the
second virtual terminal screen, etc. ALT-SYSREQ `h' refers to the
main console display (/dev/console). The next active screen can be
selected with ALT-SYSREQ `n,' and the previous screen can be selected
with ALT-SYSREQ `p.'
I doubt that I ever used them with Dell SVR4 before today, used xterms
instead.
CHS
--
voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer(a)technologists.com
fax: +1.512.346.5240 Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/
Facebook/Google/LinkedIn/Twitter: CharlesHSauer
The virtual consoles using the function keys
predate Linux and 386BSD by a
number of years. I used them only early x86 Unix ports to the IBM PC such
as Xenix.
I'm pretty sure that the 386 version of ISC UNIX I used on a PC in the '88/89
timeframe had them. I vaguely recall it having a more awkward key sequence
than Linux for switching between consoles.
Here we go:
https://virtuallyfun.com/2010/02/09/fun-with-interactive-unix/
"On a text console side, the OS has virtual consoles switchable via SYSRQ + F key.
Console is on F8."
DF
15 Mar
15 Mar
5:26 a.m.
Charlie,
I do not recall PC/IX having a virtual console capability,
but I could be wrong - we are talking almost 40 years
ago now.
BTW, I do have some rather complete sets of documents
and diskettes for INTERACTIVE UNIX for Intel 386.
If anyone has an interest, send me a private email.
Heinz
On 3/14/2023 3:46 PM, Charles H Sauer (he/him) wrote:
On 3/14/2023 11:42 AM, Derek Fawcus via TUHS wrote:
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:24:24AM -0400, Clem
Cole wrote:
The real question in my mind is whether PC/IX had this sort of thing.
PC/IX was the first Unix I used regularly, and my recollection is that
it did have something along these lines, but Heinz or someone else
with ISC back then might be able to say definitively.
When I got a PC/AT, I started using (SCO?) Xenix because it better
utilized the hardware than PC/IX. I'm pretty sure Clem is correct that
Xenix had virtual consoles selected by the function keys.
AIX for the RT/PC definitely had such virtual consoles from the
beginning. See the article by Baker et al in the RT Book
(https://technologists.com/sauer/SA23-1057_IBM_RT_Personal_Computer_Technolo…)
By the time I had my own RT, we had X in AIX, so I probably chose to
use xterms.
I'm pretty sure that the SVR3 Dell Unix would have had these along the
lines described by Antoni, cited above, since SVR3 Dell Unix began
with code from ISC, probably a little earlier than what Antoni used. I
probably chose to use xterms instead.
I just powered up my Dell 450DGX (“JAWS”) and verified that the
SVR4-based Dell Unix had such virtual consoles. man keyboard excerpt:
Switching Screens
To change screens (virtual terminals), first run the vtlmgr command
[see vtlmgr(1M)]. Switch the current screen by typing ALT-SYSREQ
(also labelled ALT-PRINTSCRN on some systems) followed by a key which
identifies the desired screen. Any active screen may be selected by
following ALT-SYSREQ with Fn, where Fn is one of the function keys.
F1 refers to the first virtual terminal screen, F2 refers to the
second virtual terminal screen, etc. ALT-SYSREQ `h' refers to the
main console display (/dev/console). The next active screen can be
selected with ALT-SYSREQ `n,' and the previous screen can be selected
with ALT-SYSREQ `p.'
I doubt that I ever used them with Dell SVR4 before today, used xterms
instead.
CHS
The virtual consoles using the function keys
predate Linux and
386BSD by a
number of years. I used them only early x86 Unix ports to the IBM
PC such
as Xenix.
I'm pretty sure that the 386 version of ISC UNIX I used on a PC in
the '88/89
timeframe had them. I vaguely recall it having a more awkward key
sequence
than Linux for switching between consoles.
Here we go:
https://virtuallyfun.com/2010/02/09/fun-with-interactive-unix/
"On a text console side, the OS has virtual consoles switchable via
SYSRQ + F key. Console is on F8."
DF
13 Mar
13 Mar
4:27 p.m.
Hi Paul,
So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were
invented for concurrent
CP/M around 1983, made their way to Xenix in the late 80’s and became
part of Linux in the early 90’s.
Have I missed other prior art?
RISC iX for the ARM2 CPU had virtual consoles hopped between with the
function keys. It was based on 4.3BSD and shipped on computers from
Acorn like the R140 in ’89. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_iX
The ARM2 was the first generally released ARM and was created by Acorn
Computers in Britain because they wanted to move on from the 6502 they
used in the BBC Micro, etc. They knew of RISC, didn't think much of the
16-bit CPUs on the market, and after a visit to Western Design Centre
thought they could have a go at chip design. Roger Wilson, a very
seasoned and experienced assembly programmer on multiple instruction
sets, designed the instruction set; it was beautiful.
--
Cheers, Ralph.
4:30 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 9:13 AM Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
wrote:
Thinking a bit more about terminal multiplexing was a
major use case for
early X, I recalled using Linux virtual consoles in the late 90’s for this
purpose.
According to Wikipedia, virtual consoles originated with Xenix and before
that with concurrent CP/M.
Perusing the documentation of those on Bitsavers, I can see that virtual
consoles have a prominent mention in the manual for concurrent CP/M (1983),
but not those of its forerunners MP/M II and MP/M (1979). I cannot find a
mention of virtual consoles in Xenix documentation as late as 1988.
Venix/86R 1.0 Boston Softwre Works Edition had virtual consoles. It was
released in 1986.
https://groups.google.com/g/mod.newprod/c/iYLc3cdnyms/m/Him5XgqwT70J is a
reference. However, it was inspired by Xenix and Microport System V/AT
according to the author. The stock version of Venix/86R 1.0 didn't have
them, nor did the PC version that we have some sources for. Here's the
relevant bits from the blurb:
Virtual consoles, as found in VENIX on IBM-compatible machines, and also in
XENIX and Microport System V/AT.
But also interesting was:
Support for simultaneous use of a monochrome display (for terminal/console
use) and a color graphics display (for graphics).
which I thought interesting at the time, but was pretty old-school Unix
Workstation by then.
No such thing as a virtual (as distinct from pseudo) tty on 16-bit Unix or
early 32-bit, as far as I know; one could argue it
does not make much sense
with physical terminals. Wikipedia says no such thing existed on SunOS
either.
I think virtual consoles where present in Linux from a very early point.
Ditto for the 386BSD BSD/386 line of code. I think they were added in the
patch-kit phase, not the original Jolitz code phase. FreeBSD 1.0 Beta had
them in 1993 for sure, as did NetBSD of the time.
I have a memory of them on 0.98pl13 on Linux as well, but that version
sticks in my head as a proxy for anything between 0.96 (the first one I
tried) and 0.99 (the last before 1.x Linux). This would be approximately
1992 or 1993.
I've not done the deep-dive into the ancient code bases to see if I can
suss out when they arrived.
So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were
invented for concurrent
CP/M around 1983, made their way to Xenix in the late 80’s and became part
of Linux in the early 90’s.
Have I missed other prior art?
Maybe a little. Good information about Microport System V is kinda hard to
come by these days...
Warner
14 Mar
14 Mar
4:27 a.m.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 8:30 AM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
Ditto for the 386BSD BSD/386 line of code. I think they were added in the
patch-kit phase, not the original Jolitz code phase. FreeBSD 1.0 Beta had
them in 1993 for sure, as did NetBSD of the time.
I have a memory of them on 0.98pl13 on Linux as well, but that version
sticks in my head as a proxy for anything between 0.96 (the first one I
tried) and 0.99 (the last before 1.x Linux). This would be approximately
1992 or 1993.
I've not done the deep-dive into the ancient code bases to see if I can
suss out when they arrived.
Virtual consoles were added to Linux in Version 0.12. They may have been
available in 386BSD and FreeBSD 1.0 but it looks like they were not
configured by default until FreeBSD 1.1.
--
Rik
13 Mar
13 Mar
4:33 p.m.
The AIX for the PS/2 had a thing called the HFT which allowed you to
switch the VGA head between different virtual screens long before LINUX
came along.
I was using Xenix back on the 286, both on PCs and on an Intel 310
Multibus I system. The IBM Xenix I had on my 286 system (A real honest
to god IBM PC AT)
had the feature Mutliscreen (TM) which supproted nine terminals. This
was in 1984.
Amusingly we moved on to the 386 on a Multibus II system. We had
started with an Intel-done port of Interactive Systems’s (Hi, Heinz!)
product but it turns out Intel couldn’t provide (they claim they lost
it) the source of the Multibus II interfaces to allow us to upgrade to a
newer release so given the generic 386 IS/1 sources, I sat down and
rebuilt all the MB-II specific stuff. I really did like that bus, too
bad it didn’t catch on.
-Ron
4:45 p.m.
Nice work Ron!
On 3/13/2023 8:33 AM, Ron Natalie wrote:
The AIX for the PS/2 had a thing called the HFT which
allowed you to
switch the VGA head between different virtual screens long before
LINUX came along.
I was using Xenix back on the 286, both on PCs and on an Intel 310
Multibus I system. The IBM Xenix I had on my 286 system (A real
honest to god IBM PC AT)
had the feature Mutliscreen (TM) which supproted nine terminals.
This was in 1984.
Amusingly we moved on to the 386 on a Multibus II system. We had
started with an Intel-done port of Interactive Systems’s (Hi, Heinz!)
product but it turns out Intel couldn’t provide (they claim they lost
it) the source of the Multibus II interfaces to allow us to upgrade to
a newer release so given the generic 386 IS/1 sources, I sat down and
rebuilt all the MB-II specific stuff. I really did like that bus,
too bad it didn’t catch on.
-Ron
6:04 p.m.
Hi,
Ron wrote:
The AIX for the PS/2 had a thing called the HFT which
allowed you to
switch the VGA head between different virtual screens long before
LINUX came along.
AIX 3.2.5 on the POWER RS/6000 still had the HFT, High Function
Terminal. /dev/hft0 IIRC. It had a framebuffer which was extremely
slow when used as a TTY; one could follow the old text rippling up the
screen to make way for the new line at the bottom. Interrupting a
cat(1) didn't cut the wait for the HFT to catch up with what cat had
already written; seconds passed.
Given ‘startx’ was the main command entered this was only a pain when
debugging something outside of X Windows.
--
Cheers, Ralph.
4:49 p.m.
Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> writes:
Thinking a bit more about terminal multiplexing was a
major use case for early X, I recalled using Linux virtual consoles in the late 90’s for
this purpose.
According to Wikipedia, virtual consoles originated with Xenix and before that with
concurrent CP/M.
Perusing the documentation of those on Bitsavers, I can see that virtual consoles have a
prominent mention in the manual for concurrent CP/M (1983), but not those of its
forerunners MP/M II and MP/M (1979). I cannot find a mention of virtual consoles in Xenix
documentation as late as 1988.
No such thing as a virtual (as distinct from pseudo) tty on 16-bit Unix or early 32-bit,
as far as I know; one could argue it does not make much sense with physical terminals.
Wikipedia says no such thing existed on SunOS either.
I think virtual consoles where present in Linux from a very early point.
So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were invented for concurrent CP/M around 1983,
made their way to Xenix in the late 80’s and became part of Linux in the early 90’s.
Have I missed other prior art?
Not Unix, but OS-9 Level II on the CC3 had them. Not exactly a console,
as a fixed console device really did not exist in the same way as Unix
on OS-9, but multiple shells each running in their own screen with
different sizes if I recall correctly. This would have all been in the
early to mid 1980s in a 8/16 bit environment.
--
Brad Spencer - brad(a)anduin.eldar.org - KC8VKS - http://anduin.eldar.org
17 Mar
17 Mar
9:14 a.m.
AIX 3 had virtual consoles back in the early 1980s. The Mathnet crowd at
IBM Research (my gang) sort of hated them, though not as much as SMIT and
the ODM, because they were implemented at too low a level and didn’t
provide any real way for window managers to leverage their facilities.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:13 PM Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
wrote:
Thinking a bit more about terminal multiplexing was a
major use case for
early X, I recalled using Linux virtual consoles in the late 90’s for this
purpose.
According to Wikipedia, virtual consoles originated with Xenix and before
that with concurrent CP/M.
Perusing the documentation of those on Bitsavers, I can see that virtual
consoles have a prominent mention in the manual for concurrent CP/M (1983),
but not those of its forerunners MP/M II and MP/M (1979). I cannot find a
mention of virtual consoles in Xenix documentation as late as 1988.
No such thing as a virtual (as distinct from pseudo) tty on 16-bit Unix or
early 32-bit, as far as I know; one could argue it does not make much sense
with physical terminals. Wikipedia says no such thing existed on SunOS
either.
I think virtual consoles where present in Linux from a very early point.
So, as far as I can tell virtual consoles were invented for concurrent
CP/M around 1983, made their way to Xenix in the late 80’s and became part
of Linux in the early 90’s.
Have I missed other prior art?
--
=====
nygeek.net
mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home>
612
days inactive
616
days old
20 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
Brad Spencer -
Charles H Sauer (he/him) -
Clem Cole -
Dan Cross -
Derek Fawcus -
Heinz Lycklama -
KenUnix -
Marc Donner -
Miod Vallat -
Paul Ruizendaal -
Paul Winalski -
Ralph Corderoy -
Rik Schneider -
Ron Natalie -
Warner Losh