Mahlzeit According to Warren Toomey: Then you still have the chance to get AU-0. :) Because of the AT&T Unix computers? Mahlzeit endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA04410 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:30:51 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from mgate.nwnexus.com (beavis.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04405 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:30:44 +1000 (EST) Received: from halcyon.com (blv-lx102-ip41.nwnexus.net [206.63.41.41]) by mgate.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12701; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:30:25 -0700 Message-ID: &lt;352A3863.279915CF(a)halcyon.com&gt; Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 07:29:55 -0700 From: "David C. Jenner" &lt;djenner(a)halcyon.com&gt; Reply-To: djenner(a)halcyon.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au CC: PDP Unix Preservation &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Re: Receipt of 12 License Details References: &lt;199804070551.PAA01173(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Hey, maybe you can be AU-0 after all. That's an excellent idea! Dave Warren Toomey wrote: Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA04494 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:12:37 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from skatter.USask.Ca (skatter.usask.ca [128.233.14.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04489 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:12:31 +1000 (EST) Received: from hydrus.USask.Ca (hydrus.usask.ca [128.233.14.27]) by skatter.USask.Ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21964; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:12:17 -0600 (CST) From: Neil Johnson &lt;neil(a)skatter.usask.ca&gt; Received: (from neil@localhost) by hydrus.USask.Ca (8.7.2/8.7.2) id JAA18391; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:12:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:12:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: &lt;199804071512.JAA18391(a)hydrus.USask.Ca&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Receipt of 12 License Details Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I'm actually a bit happy to see I'm not on the list. I was a little disappointed that only 12 people had applied given the number of signatures on the petition. Neil Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA05735 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:06:02 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05730 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:05:58 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA02178; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:07:20 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804072207.IAA02178(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Re: Receipt of 12 License Details To: neil(a)skatter.usask.ca (Neil Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:07:19 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: &lt;199804071512.JAA18391(a)hydrus.USask.Ca&gt; from Neil Johnson at "Apr 7, 98 09:12:14 am" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Neil Johnson: Afert sleeping on it, and inspecting the bundle of 12 from Dion yesterday, I see the AU-12 license is dated 16th March. Now I know SCO took their license fee from my account on the 24th of March. Therefore I suspect that licensing haven't passed the paperwork on to Dion, for those licenses processed after the 16th March. This probably indicates that there are more licenses still in the works. I should get some mail from Dion today, and I'll pass on anything relevant. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA05854 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:32:22 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05849 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:32:19 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA02379; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:33:46 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804072233.IAA02379(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Re: More licenses in the works To: dionj(a)sco.COM (Dion Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:33:46 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: &lt;19980407152602.02045(a)sco.com&gt; from Dion Johnson at "Apr 7, 98 03:26:02 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Dion Johnson: Thanks Dion, I know you're working hard there. It looks like legal are the bottleneck. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06652 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:26:08 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from renoir.op.net (root(a)renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06642 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:25:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from goppelt.op.net (d-phlarc1-0e.ppp.op.net [209.152.199.78]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.15 $) with SMTP id XAA26771; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: &lt;199804080325.XAA26771(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Comments: Authenticated sender is &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; From: "Ed G." &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:25:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Mag Tape Bug in Bob's Emulator? Reply-to: edgee(a)cyberpass.net CC: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; In-reply-to: &lt;199804070255.MAA00874(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; References: &lt;199804070248.WAA14210(a)renoir.op.net&gt; from "Ed G." at "Apr 6, 98 10:48:17 pm" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I've got perl scripts that do this. I'd be happy to donate them to the archive if you're interested. Yes, this works well for getting info into the emulator. However, I was not able to use this method to get info out of the emulator. In particular when I first got the emulator I wanted to examine all the files on the rl0 disk using the much nicer work environment provided by Linux. Having tar write to rl1 fails around the 1.4 Meg mark (anyone know why?), whereas I was able to dump the entire contents of the rl disk to a simtape with no problem. Here's what happened when I tried to dump the entire rl0 disk: Ed sim> att rl1 junk.dsk RL: creating new file sim> cont # pwd / # tar cvf /dev/rrl1 * tar: p: cannot open file a bin/ac 20 blocks a bin/ar 20 blocks a bin/arcv 8 blocks a bin/at 17 blocks a bin/basename 4 blocks a bin/login.old 18 blocks a bin/cat 8 blocks a bin/cb 11 blocks a bin/cc 13 blocks a bin/checkeq 9 blocks a bin/chgrp 10 blocks a bin/chmod 7 blocks a bin/chown 10 blocks a bin/clri 7 blocks a bin/cmp 9 blocks a bin/col 10 blocks a bin/comm 10 blocks a bin/cp 7 blocks a bin/crypt 10 blocks a bin/cu 14 blocks a bin/date 12 blocks a bin/dcheck 9 blocks a bin/dd 14 blocks a bin/deroff 18 blocks a bin/df 7 blocks a bin/diff 19 blocks a bin/du 8 blocks a bin/dump 17 blocks a bin/dumpdir 16 blocks a bin/echo 1 blocks a bin/ed 22 blocks a bin/egrep 18 blocks a bin/expr 17 blocks a bin/fgrep 11 blocks a bin/file 13 blocks a bin/find 22 blocks a bin/graph 30 blocks a bin/grep 12 blocks a bin/icheck 14 blocks a bin/iostat 22 blocks a bin/join 12 blocks a bin/kill 7 blocks a bin/ld 22 blocks a bin/ln 8 blocks a bin/login 19 blocks a bin/look 10 blocks a bin/ls 20 blocks a bin/mail 26 blocks a bin/mesg 7 blocks a bin/mkdir 8 blocks a bin/mv 13 blocks a bin/ncheck 10 blocks a bin/newgrp 16 blocks a bin/nice 9 blocks a bin/nm 12 blocks a bin/od 12 blocks a bin/ps 19 blocks a bin/passwd 17 blocks a bin/pr 22 blocks a bin/prof 22 blocks a bin/v6sh 11 blocks a bin/pstat 16 blocks a bin/ptx 16 blocks a bin/pwd 7 blocks a bin/quot 19 blocks a bin/random 13 blocks a bin/ranlib 12 blocks a bin/restor 24 blocks a bin/rev 7 blocks a bin/rm 10 blocks a bin/rmdir 8 blocks a bin/sa 23 blocks a bin/size 8 blocks a bin/sleep 6 blocks a bin/sort 19 blocks a bin/sp 5 blocks a bin/spline 18 blocks a bin/split 8 blocks a bin/strip 8 blocks a bin/stty 11 blocks a bin/su 22 blocks a bin/sum 8 blocks a bin/sync 1 blocks a bin/tail 4 blocks a bin/tc 17 blocks a bin/tee 3 blocks a bin/test 6 blocks a bin/time 11 blocks a bin/tk 11 blocks a bin/touch 6 blocks a bin/tr 6 blocks a bin/tsort 16 blocks a bin/tty 6 blocks a bin/uniq 9 blocks a bin/units 19 blocks a bin/vpr 16 blocks a bin/wc 12 blocks a bin/who 13 blocks a bin/write 11 blocks a bin/yes 5 blocks a bin/1 1 blocks a bin/calendar 1 blocks a bin/diff3 1 blocks a bin/false 1 blocks a bin/lookbib 1 blocks a bin/lorder 1 blocks a bin/man 2 blocks a bin/nohup 1 blocks a bin/plot 1 blocks a bin/spell 2 blocks a bin/true 0 blocks a bin/lint 1 blocks a bin/notavail link to bin/lint a bin/pcc link to bin/lint a bin/struct link to bin/lint a bin/adb 54 blocks a bin/awk 89 blocks a bin/bc 26 blocks a bin/cptree 16 blocks a bin/poke6 19 blocks a bin/dc 45 blocks a bin/em 36 blocks a bin/enroll 31 blocks a bin/eqn 56 blocks a bin/m4 27 blocks a bin/make 40 blocks a bin/neqn 51 blocks a bin/nroff 75 blocks a bin/prep 14 blocks a bin/ratfor 27 blocks a bin/roff 17 blocks a bin/sed 26 blocks a bin/sh 34 blocks a bin/tar 35 blocks a bin/tbl 60 blocks a bin/tp 20 blocks a bin/xget 41 blocks a bin/xsend 42 blocks a bin/factor 6 blocks a bin/primes 6 blocks a bin/yacc 48 blocks a bin/lex 57 blocks a bin/tek 21 blocks a bin/t300 20 blocks a bin/t300s 20 blocks a bin/t450 20 blocks a bin/vplot 22 blocks a bin/refer 58 blocks a bin/as 11 blocks a bin/ops 16 blocks a bin/f77 link to bin/lint a bin/vcopy 8 blocks a bin/learn 1 blocks a bin/notmade link to bin/learn a bin/troff link to bin/learn a bin/dfOLD 7 blocks a bin/ls.11 16 blocks a bin/.profile 1 blocks a bin/ps.old 18 blocks a bin/rmail link to bin/mail a bin/m68k link to bin/false a bin/u3b2 link to bin/false a bin/pr.old 16 blocks a boot 19 blocks a dev/makefile 6 blocks tar: dev/console is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/tty is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/mem is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/kmem is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/null is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/mt0 is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/ttya is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/swap is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/ttye is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/nmt0: cannot open file tar: dev/tty2 is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/tty3 is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/rmt0: cannot open file tar: dev/tty4 is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/nrmt0: cannot open file tar: dev/rl0 is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/rl1 is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/rrl0 is not a file. Not dumped tar: dev/rrl1 is not a file. Not dumped tar: etc: cannot open file tar: global: cannot open file tar: global.c: cannot open file tar: global.s: cannot open file tar: hello: cannot open file tar: hello.c: cannot open file tar: hello.s: cannot open file tar: lib: cannot open file tar: lost+found: cannot open file tar: mnt: cannot open file tar: mysqrt.c: cannot open file tar: mysqrt.s: cannot open file tar: normps: cannot open file tar: nothing: cannot open file tar: nothing.c: cannot open file tar: nothing.s: cannot open file tar: rkunix: cannot open file tar: rl1unix: cannot open file tar: stand: cannot open file tar: tmp: cannot open file tar: u1: cannot open file tar: unix: cannot open file tar: usr: cannot open file # Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06651 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:26:06 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from renoir.op.net (root(a)renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06641 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:25:54 +1000 (EST) Received: from goppelt.op.net (d-phlarc1-0e.ppp.op.net [209.152.199.78]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.15 $) with SMTP id XAA26777; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: &lt;199804080325.XAA26777(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Comments: Authenticated sender is &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; From: "Ed G." &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:25:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? Reply-to: edgee(a)cyberpass.net CC: Greg Lehey &lt;grog(a)lemis.com&gt; In-reply-to: &lt;19980407135313.43010(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; References: &lt;199804070043.UAA07210(a)renoir.op.net&gt;; from Ed G. on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 08:42:54PM -0400 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Yes, this occurred to me too. My perl script doesn't do any fancy decoding; it just looks for words beginning with octal 17. After some thought I came to the conclusion that the percentage of data words miscounted as floating pt. ops (FPOs) is negligible. Here's my reasoning--tell me what you think: It seemed to me that the two potential sources of fake FPOs are addresses and data words. Have I left anything out? I don't believe that addresses are a problem because the programs would have to be at least 170000 octal (61441 decimal) bytes long to generate these addresses at compile time. In fact, the largest program in the bin directory is awk at 45,260 bytes. cc is only 6510 bytes (those guys at bell labs really knew how to pack it in!) That leaves data. What percent of the data words do you think begin with 17 octal? Here's my "guestimate": 17 octal is a 6 bit binary number. Assuming the probability of any bit being one is .5, the probability of finding a word whose first six bits are one would be 1/2^6 or 1 in 64 which is 1 in 128 bytes. I examined the run time image of factor. It was 3072 bytes long, of which 222 bytes or less than 10% appeared to be global data. Counting immediate operands, I think it is reasonable to assume a 10-1 code to data ratio. That would mean for factor that 2 of the 132 FPOs would be bogus (111* 1/64 = 2 approx). Most programs are bigger than factor, however. cptree and ops are close to the average size (around 7800 bytes) for an executable in the bin directory. So for the average program you might expect to see 7800*.1*1/128 = 6 bogus FPOs. "there are lies, damn lies and statistics"--Mark Twain (I think) Ed G. List of floating point ops by program: awk 2540 refer 1644 xsend 1326 tbl 1315 graph 1300 xget 1288 adb 1152 eqn 918 enroll 915 neqn 874 nroff 841 make 822 spline 812 yacc 789 sa 714 tar 706 lex 628 tek 618 prof 608 t300s 604 dc 601 vplot 582 iostat 579 t300 576 t450 574 em 530 bc 509 ratfor 474 quot 452 tsort 407 sh 381 expr 380 units 379 ac 365 sort 358 ps 327 restor 323 rmail 321 ed 321 mail 321 ptx 320 egrep 313 ls 310 ps.old 306 m4 304 random 298 su 296 tp 285 ops 282 cu 282 diff 277 pr 275 poke6 275 sed 267 find 267 dump 261 deroff 255 icheck 251 ls.11 249 ld 246 login 240 cptree 230 passwd 227 login.old 218 cc 210 prep 205 at 203 dumpdir 197 join 196 wc 193 tc 192 nm 191 pstat 190 file 187 pr.old 186 crypt 182 date 181 grep 180 ranlib 174 fgrep 172 ncheck 159 checkeq 157 du 155 who 152 as 152 od 151 look 149 roff 149 ar 146 vpr 144 dd 141 tk 141 time 139 rm 138 cb 134 mv 134 comm 133 newgrp 133 dcheck 132 factor 132 rmdir 125 write 125 primes 124 cmp 121 dfOLD 120 df 120 size 117 v6sh 116 vcopy 113 nice 113 col 110 ln 106 sum 105 clri 104 cat 103 tail 103 sleep 101 stty 98 mkdir 98 mesg 96 cp 96 touch 96 strip 96 tty 91 chmod 90 split 90 uniq 89 pwd 86 rev 86 chown 84 chgrp 84 kill 83 arcv 83 yes 79 tr 58 sp 57 test 53 basename 34 tee 24 echo 4 sync 2 finddouble.pl 0 u3b2 0 1 0 f77 0 lint 0 finddouble.pl~ 0 true 0 spell 0 troff 0 notmade 0 nohup 0 diff3 0 learn 0 notavail 0 findfp.pl~ 0 lookbib 0 pcc 0 man 0 plot 0 m68k 0 false 0 findfp.pl 0 struct 0 lorder 0 calendar 0 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06682 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:32:13 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06677 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:32:09 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03044; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:33:30 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804080333.NAA03044(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Getting Files In/Out of PDP-11 Simulators To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:33:29 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: &lt;199804080325.XAA26771(a)renoir.op.net&gt; from "Ed G." at "Apr 7, 98 11:25:33 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Ed G.: [getting files in/out of PDP-11 simulators] Some simulators open a truncated file, and then die once it gets to a certain size. A solution here is to cp an existing big file over to the desired disk image. It will, of course, be overwritten as you tar out to the disk image. Specific problems are touched on below: V7 tar cannot dump device files. Probably your disk image has been corrupted. Use /etc/fsck if it exists, otherwise icheck, ncheck and dcheck. For instance, the Supnik RL02 image has got a small, recoverable problem. The Supnik V7 RK05 image seems to be completely stuffed, and fsck gives up on it. I do have new images for these, and I should pass them on to Bob. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06782 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:04:15 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06777 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:04:07 +1000 (EST) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13667; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:33:58 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA12367; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:33:58 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: &lt;19980408133357.40721(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:33:57 +0930 From: Greg Lehey &lt;grog(a)lemis.com&gt; To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? References: &lt;199804070043.UAA07210(a)renoir.op.net&gt;; &lt;19980407135313.43010(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; &lt;199804080325.XAA26777(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: &lt;199804080325.XAA26777(a)renoir.op.net&gt;; from Ed G. on Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 11:25:33PM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 April 1998 at 23:25:33 -0400, Ed G. wrote: You don't say whether you restricted your search to the text segment. Anyway, at this point, I would have modified the script somewhat to display the locations of the words, and then would have looked at the text with adb to see what purpose they serve. Considering that floating point was an option, I find it hard to believe that so many programs, in particular things like tar, would use FP. Greg Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06821 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:10 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06815 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:04 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA03122; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:12:29 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804080412.OAA03122(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:12:29 +1000 (EST) Cc: edgee(a)cyberpass.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: &lt;19980408133357.40721(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; from Greg Lehey at "Apr 8, 98 01:33:57 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Greg Lehey: I know zip all about PDP-11 FP, but I know that when I was getting my Apout V7 simulator working (which doesn't do FP, by the way), I had to at least emulate setd, because crt0 in V7 starts with: start: setd mov 2(sp),r0 clr -2(r0) Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06837 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:29 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06832 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:25 +1000 (EST) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06388 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:22 +1000 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:11:22 +1000 From: John Holden &lt;johnh(a)psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804080411.OAA06388(a)psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I think that you will find that the compiler and assember always generate relative addressing for subroutines and jumps. Any call to an earlier address will generate a negative number, hence lots of 017xxxx numbers in the text image. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06875 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:28:16 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from renoir.op.net (root(a)renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06870 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:28:04 +1000 (EST) Received: from goppelt.op.net (d-phlarc1-0a.ppp.op.net [209.152.199.74]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.15 $) with SMTP id AAA00145; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: &lt;199804080427.AAA00145(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Comments: Authenticated sender is &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; From: "Ed G." &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; To: Greg Lehey &lt;grog(a)lemis.com&gt; Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:27:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? Reply-to: edgee(a)cyberpass.net CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-reply-to: &lt;19980408133357.40721(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; References: &lt;199804080325.XAA26777(a)renoir.op.net&gt;; from Ed G. on Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 11:25:33PM -0400 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk My guess is that the floating point code is dragged in when certain library routines (e.g., printf and libc) are used, even if the floating point features of the routines are not used. Consider this: Two programs hello.c and nothing.c, identical except that hello.c contains a single printf("hello world\n") inside main. nothing.c has nothing in its main loop. Program--Size--Number of FPOs Reported by my perl script =========================================== nothing.c, 312 bytes, 2 hello.c, 4804 bytes, 115 See what I mean? Ed Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06927 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:47:00 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06922 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:46:55 +1000 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA19850; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:34:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" &lt;sms(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804080434.VAA19850(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; To: johnh(a)psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Not quite 'always'. In some cases yes, relative addressing is generated but quite frequently you'll see absolute addresses used. Why? I don't know ;) On some machines mode 3 is a bit faster than mode 6 but I doubt that was the reason. Steven Schultz Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA07030 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:15:27 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07025 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:15:17 +1000 (EST) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13740; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:45:13 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA12608; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:45:08 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: &lt;19980408144508.09240(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:45:08 +0930 From: Greg Lehey &lt;grog(a)lemis.com&gt; To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? References: &lt;199804080325.XAA26777(a)renoir.op.net&gt;; &lt;19980408133357.40721(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; &lt;199804080427.AAA00145(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: &lt;199804080427.AAA00145(a)renoir.op.net&gt;; from Ed G. on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 12:27:40AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 8 April 1998 at 0:27:40 -0400, Ed G. wrote: I don't see that this proves anything. You really need to look at those words and see how they are used. Greg Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA07433 for pups-liszt; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:54:10 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from Zeke.Update.UU.SE (2026(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE [130.238.11.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07428 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:53:54 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Zeke.Update.UU.SE (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA13459; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:53:40 +0200 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:53:37 +0200 (MET DST) From: Johnny Billquist &lt;bqt(a)Update.UU.SE&gt; To: "Ed G." &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, Greg Lehey &lt;grog(a)lemis.com&gt; Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? In-Reply-To: &lt;199804080325.XAA26777(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Message-ID: &lt;Pine.VUL.3.93.980408094723.13372A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Ed G. wrote: You are making atleast four assumptions which are wrong here. 1) Data starts from address 0. They most likely do not. 2) 17 is not 6 bits, it's four! You are talking about octal representation of 16 bits, which means that the highest digit can only be 0 or 1. 3) All data are not words. How about bytes? If a byte is in the range 240-255 and on an odd address, you'll catch it as a FP opcode. 4) Not all data are addresses. Most negative numbers will have 17 as the high four bits. Of these four assumptions, the fourth is the most serious, and probably the cause of most of your "hits". You'll have to do better... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA10162 for pups-liszt; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:36:02 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10157 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:35:58 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA04236 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:37:36 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804082137.HAA04236(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Have a safe Easter! To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:37:36 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Easter's here, I'm off to a friend's wedding. Have a safe & happy break, and I'll see (hear?) from you all on Tuesday. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA10201 for pups-liszt; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:42:08 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10196 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:42:04 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA04280 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:43:42 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804082143.HAA04280(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Yet more licenses To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 07:43:42 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk ----- Forwarded message from Dion Johnson ----- I have 13 more licenses for you, being copied now. I will mail these off tomorrow or Friday. Dion ----- End of forwarded message from Dion Johnson ----- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA16327 for pups-liszt; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:19:34 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from mail13.digital.com (mail13.digital.com [192.208.46.30]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA16322 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:19:27 +1000 (EST) Received: from cst.ako.dec.com (cst.ako.dec.com [16.151.72.40]) by mail13.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0d) with ESMTP id JAA27778 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by cst.ako.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <HSD5TNA2>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:20:09 -0400 Message-ID: &lt;6B84B1FF221BD011B0AC08002BE692066DD917(a)excmso.mso.dec.com&gt; From: Bob Supnik &lt;Bob.Supnik(a)digital.com&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: RE: Floating Point Bug in Bob's Emulator - second one found Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:19:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk A second bug has been found in the floating point emulator. The first (in MODf) caused FACTOR to malfunction. This one causes problems in AWK. The bug is in LDEXP. In pdp11_fp.c: case 015: /* LDEXP */ dst = (dstspec <= 07)? R[dstspec]: ReadW (GeteaW (dstspec)); F_LOAD (qdouble, FR[ac], fac); fac.h = (fac.h & ~FP_EXP) | (((dst + FP_BIAS) & FP_M_EXP) << FP_V_EXP); newV = 0; ==> if ((dst > 0177) || (dst <= 0177600)) { Change the indicated line to: if ((dst > 0177) && (dst <= 0177600)) { The test case is: # awk 'END {print 1+2}' < /dev/null incorrectly produced 0, now produces 3. /Bob Supnik Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA16423 for pups-liszt; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:50:38 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from mail13.digital.com (mail13.digital.com [192.208.46.30]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA16418 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:50:29 +1000 (EST) Received: from cst.ako.dec.com (cst.ako.dec.com [16.151.72.40]) by mail13.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0d) with ESMTP id JAA00404 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by cst.ako.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <HSD5TNBG>; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:51:09 -0400 Message-ID: &lt;6B84B1FF221BD011B0AC08002BE692066DD91B(a)excmso.mso.dec.com&gt; From: Bob Supnik &lt;Bob.Supnik(a)digital.com&gt; To: "'PUPS'" &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Question re TM11 boostrap Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:50:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Several people have asked for a bootstrap for the TM11 magtape. V2.3a has a simple bootstrap that just reads the first magtape record and jumps to it. However, John Holden points out that the M9301 bootstrap actually skips the first record and reads the second. Does anyone have source code for an actual TM11 bootstrap? What do the various versions of UNIX expect in a bootable tape image, particularly BSD 2.9 and 2.11? Thanks /Bob Supnik Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA16774 for pups-liszt; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:39:34 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from alph02.triumf.ca (alph02.Triumf.CA [142.90.114.18]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA16768 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU&gt;; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:39:28 +1000 (EST) Received: by alph02.triumf.ca; id AA06532; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:35:38 -0700 From: Tim Shoppa &lt;shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Message-Id: &lt;9804101535.AA06532(a)alph02.triumf.ca&gt; Subject: Re: Question re TM11 boostrap To: Bob.Supnik(a)DIGITAL.com (Bob Supnik) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:35:38 -0800 (PDT) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: &lt;6B84B1FF221BD011B0AC08002BE692066DD91B(a)excmso.mso.dec.com&gt; from "Bob Supnik" at Apr 10, 98 09:50:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk It depends on which OS (and version) you're using, but most of DEC's later OS's made some attempt to have bootable tapes be ANSI-labeled volumes. This meant that the boot block had to come after the VOL1 header. See, for example, the source code to RT-11's DUP utility. I certainly have some boot ROM's that I can disassemble. I'll also check my DEC manuals for the toggle-in bootstraps. I know that in some cases it was necessary to re-execute the toggle-in bootstrap if the real boot block was the second file/record. Also note that it wasn't until the late 70's/early 80's that DEC adopted the "second block is the boot block" strategy. You're likely to see different things depending on when a bootstrap was written. 2.11 plays it safe by putting down two copies of the boot block at the beginning of the tape, each ending with a filemark. All Q-bus tape bootstraps that might reside in a 11/53's console firmware would be looking for the boot block to be the second block on tape. But as the TM11 wasn't a Q-bus device I don't think the 11/53 firmware is going to resolve this issue. A side comment on the emulator: Have you ever considered putting the 11/53 firmware into your emulator, so that users can use the bootstraps and diagnostics built into it? Would there be copyright problems to resolve before you could do this? Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA16834 for pups-liszt; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:02:25 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16829 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:02:19 +1000 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA14552; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:01:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" &lt;sms(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804101601.JAA14552(a)moe.2bsd.com&gt; To: Bob.Supnik(a)digital.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Question re TM11 boostrap Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Bob, et al - For booting 2.xBSD that will work fine. True - and that's precisely why bootable tapes (at least starting with 2.9BSD, not sure about V7) have two copies of the tapebootblock at the front. The layout of a boottape is: tapeboot tapeboot boot <filemark> standaloneprogram 1 <filemark> ... What I use (it's in the 2.11 setup documentation) is: If no other means are available, the following code can be keyed in and executed at (say) 0100000 to boot from a TM tape drive (the magic number 172526 is the address of the TM-11 current memory address register; an adjustment may be necessary if your controller is at a nonstandard address): 012700 (mov $unit, r0) 000000 (normally unit 0) 012701 (mov $172526, r1) 172526 010141 (mov r1, -(r1)) 012741 (mov $60003, -(r1)) 060003 (if unit 1 use 060403, etc) 000777 (br .) This does nothing more than read the first record (much like V2.3a already does) into location 0. Then a ^E is typed followed by "g 0". The tape bootblocks for 2.xBSD all know to skip TWO copies of the tapebootblock in order to find the 'boot' program. The actual standalone programs present differ between 2.9 and 2.11 but 2.11's is: tapeboot tapeboot boot <filemark> disklabel <filemark> mkfs <filemark> restor <filemark> icheck <filemark> dump of root fs <filemark> For 2.11 the 'tapeboot' is a universal bootblock - it can handle all 4 tape drive types (MS, MM, MT, TMSCP). 2.9 on the otherhand has different tapebootblocks at the front of the tape depending on the drive type (MS or MM/MT, no TMSCP support in 2.9). Thus if you have a MS bootblock you can't boot from the tape on a MT based system. Steven Schultz Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18196 for pups-liszt; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:46:16 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from renoir.op.net (root(a)renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA18185 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:46:07 +1000 (EST) Received: from goppelt.op.net (d-phlarc1-01.ppp.op.net [209.152.199.65]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.16 $) with SMTP id WAA07389 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: &lt;199804110245.WAA07389(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Comments: Authenticated sender is &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; From: "Ed G." &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:40:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Bob's Magtape Vindicated-Unix to Blame! Reply-to: edgee(a)cyberpass.net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I described in an earlier post how uv7 tar would fail, extracting the same file over and over again (see below for example). It turns out that Bob's magtape works just fine: the problem is in tar! uv7 tar has a bug in it--a misplaced assignment--which causes it to read the first block over and over (see below for example) when used with the 'f' option. The bug is indirectly a result of a trick tar uses to determine the block size on the mag tape: rather than interrogate Unix about the block size (can someone tell me how do this?), tar first attempts to read the maximum block size supported by tar (20*512 bytes). The number of bytes actually returned is taken to be the actual block size and is used by tar for reads thereafter. Two simple workarounds for /dev/rmt0 are: tar vx0 and tar vxfb /dev/rmt0 1 The problem: # tar vxf /dev/rmt0 x mysqrt.c, 383 bytes, 1 tape blocks x mysqrt.c, 383 bytes, 1 tape blocks x mysqrt.c, 383 bytes, 1 tape blocks x mysqrt.c, 383 bytes, 1 tape blocks x mysqrt.c, 383 bytes, 1 tape blocks etc. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18199 for pups-liszt; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:46:20 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from renoir.op.net (root(a)renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA18186 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:46:09 +1000 (EST) Received: from goppelt.op.net (d-phlarc1-01.ppp.op.net [209.152.199.65]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.16 $) with SMTP id WAA07393; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: &lt;199804110246.WAA07393(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Comments: Authenticated sender is &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; From: "Ed G." &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:40:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? Reply-to: edgee(a)cyberpass.net CC: Johnny Billquist &lt;bqt(a)Update.UU.SE&gt; References: &lt;199804080325.XAA26777(a)renoir.op.net&gt; In-reply-to: &lt;Pine.VUL.3.93.980408094723.13372A-100000(a)Zeke.Update.UU.SE&gt; X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I'd like to thank everyone who wrote me on this subject, and especially those described the weaknesses they saw in my reasoning. I have found it useful sometimes to take a step back and reconsider what it is I am trying do and how I am trying to do it. My purpose here was to get a sense for how heavily the Unix utilities rely on floating point. I was not looking for a numerically exact "right" answer, but rather an estimate which was good enough. At this point, now that I have access to the source code, it seems to me that an easier and more accurate way of doing that would be to count the occurences of floats and doubles using grep or a similar utility. What do you all think? I'm not sure what you mean here; can you elaborate? As I see it my key assumption about data was that it is relatively small in size compared to code in a given program file. This was certainly the case with factor, where less than 10% of the runtime image consisted of static data. You are absolutely right. Thank you for pointing this out. My routine scanned words, not bytes, so I don't think this would apply. This is true. But if data is negligible compared to code, then I don't see how this wouldn't affect an estimate very much. Ed Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18203 for pups-liszt; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:46:23 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from renoir.op.net (root(a)renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA18197 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:46:16 +1000 (EST) Received: from goppelt.op.net (d-phlarc1-01.ppp.op.net [209.152.199.65]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.16 $) with SMTP id WAA07386; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: &lt;199804110245.WAA07386(a)renoir.op.net&gt; Comments: Authenticated sender is &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; From: "Ed G." &lt;edgee(a)cyberpass.net&gt; To: John Holden &lt;johnh(a)psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au&gt; Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:40:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Floating Point-How Important to Unix? Reply-to: edgee(a)cyberpass.net CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-reply-to: &lt;199804080411.OAA06388(a)psychvax.psych.usyd.edu.au&gt; X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I am not an expert on PDP-11 op codes, so you may well be right about this. In response to your criticism, I looked up jmp and branch instructions in the *Processor Handbook*. Based only on my quick skim of the handbook, I don't think negative relative addresses would be a problem because: 1. branch instructions are followed by a signed byte offset (-128, 127). This would not be a problem for my routine which only looks at the first four bits of every word and would ignore the offset in the odd byte. 2. jump instructions, which seem at first glance to be a problem because they are followed by a 16 bit word, are not because they always use absolute addressing, never relative and hence would never be followed by a negative number. Ed Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA25622 for pups-liszt; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:22:02 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from skatter.USask.Ca (skatter.usask.ca [128.233.14.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25617 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:21:55 +1000 (EST) Received: from hydrus.USask.Ca (hydrus.usask.ca [128.233.14.27]) by skatter.USask.Ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01657; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:21:47 -0600 (CST) From: Neil Johnson &lt;neil(a)skatter.usask.ca&gt; Received: (from neil@localhost) by hydrus.USask.Ca (8.7.2/8.7.2) id JAA21310; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:21:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:21:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: &lt;199804131521.JAA21310(a)hydrus.USask.Ca&gt; To: Bob.Supnik(a)digital.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Question re TM11 boostrap Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk I have booted a TMB11 with a simple program to load the first record into block 0. The tape must be rewound to BOT, then the program at location 0 run. I don't think the 9301 bootstrap actually skips the first record. Hope this helps. Neil Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA28778 for pups-liszt; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:21:13 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28773 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:21:09 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA09911 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:23:21 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804141023.UAA09911(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: More licenses have arrived! To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:23:21 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk All, The latest batch of licenses has arrived from Dion at SCO: Stefan Bieschewski, Robin Birch, W. Bulte, Anthony Duell, Alexander Duerrschnabel, Kevin Dunlap, Arno Griffioen, Neil Johnson, Greg Lehey, Kirk McKusick, Joseph Myers, Carl Phillips, Jason Wells As always, if you want access to the on-line PUPS Archive, or a copy on tape/CD, then email your request to pupsarchive(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au. You will receive a form reply, and we will process it as soon as possible. Note that we won't start burning the first CDs until around the 21st April. If you want on-line access, I will need a fax number or a PGP key so that I can mail you the access details, with a moderate amount of security. I won't accept PGP keys via email. I'll accept keys via finger, web page, key signing service, etc. Please include the method to obtain your key in your email request above. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA00785 for pups-liszt; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:47:46 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA00780 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:47:40 +1000 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03748; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:44:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert D. Keys" &lt;rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199804141844.OAA03748(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu&gt; Subject: PDP-11 Newbie Alert --- (gotta start somewhere) To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (Robert D. Keys) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Greetings to the list, and thanks to Warren for telling me about it. I am quite interested in the older unices, and especially the potential for home use on a smallish box of some sort. (Nostalgia trip, but why are most of us here?) Sadly, my only experiences with PDP-11ish things are so long ago as to be rather faded. We used one box (two small chassis about 8 inches high stacked together -- possibly PDP-8 or PDP-11) as some sort of remote job entry terminal that the grad students would be occasionally allowed to touch and load their SAS jobs up from (mid 70's) to the mainframe at Iowa State U. I remember the two DEC boxes and some sort of glass tty, and a paper tape reader that was used to boot it in some way, should the woeful grad student crash it late at night. That got me rather interested in computers and for several years after that time when I came to NCSU, I tried all kinds of ways to fund and coerce some sort of Heathkit version of that with some sort of early unix out of the powers that be, but they tended to think it was computing and not agronomy, so I wound up doing that with z80's and s-100 bus crates that could be hooked up to the mainframe remotely via CP/M and paper tape or 81K floppies locally. But, that has always perked my interest in the old unix beasts. I still have the old pdp-11 Heathkit manual sets and builders instructions, should I find one in the bilges somewhere....(:+}}... Anyway, I was noticing the pdp-11 system 5/6/7 binaries and the freebie sco licenses on Minnie, and was wondering where to go for info on how to bring the things up. I saw one emulator for DOS? --- (neat way maybe to use an old 4 meg dos box?). Can these things be made to run via a 386/486 bootstrap and emulator, on something like a minix/aix/FreeBSD sort of machine? I would expect something like a maintenance boot disk, and a minimal file system to get the machine up and into the emulator proper, might be feasible, maybe? Also, I see pdp-11ish things in surplus around here quite often. What would be needed to cobble together a system, for a minimal system 7 sort of box to play with? If there were a list of required boards and chassis for various levels of system, that might help a newbie get some sort of machine together. Thanks, and any comments for the newbie are appreciated. Bob Keys rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA02353 for pups-liszt; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:39:48 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f