In article by Milo Velimirovic:
> Warren,
> The license didn't survive the digestification process on the list --
> Would you be kind enough to send me a copy of the ancient-source.pdf
> directly or a URL to it?
>
> Thanks,
> Milo
Here it is,
Warren
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf
All,
Amazing news. I have been negotiating with Caldera to release the
Ancient UNIX under a BSD-style license. Well, they got it done faster
than I expected. See attached license.
I'll start removing the username/password stuff on the Unix Archive soon.
Warren
On Jan 20, 18:45, Jochen Kunz wrote:
>
> Ahhhhh! My PDP 11 has this M8192 board with FPU but without ROMs...
> I thought that this is the "original" 11/73 CPU. But on this PDP is
> nothing "original". The BA23 was a MV II, the CPU was EPayed, the RAM
> board was given to me by a friend. (Many PC/XTs had to donate there RAM
> chips to fill it.)
About the best use I can think of for a PC/XT :-)
> I found the console SLU at the scrap yard, the Dilog
> ESDI controller was EPayd (in England BTW ;-) ) ... and I am still
> looking for a ROM card...
If you can find an MRV11-D (to put MXV11-B ROMs into) or an MVX11-B, that
would be the best option (and the only ones DEC supported). However, it
should be possible to put the code from MXV11-B ROMs into several 24-pin
2Kx8 EPROMs (2716 or equivalent), and put the EPROMs into a BDV11.
However, you'd want to modify the BDV11 for 22-bit operation (that's ECO
005).
> > The BA23 was only rated for one hard disk and either a TK50 or an
> RX50,
> I know. I once saw a MV II with a second RD54 in an external case. There
> was a real mess of wiring to get it and the internal RD54 work together
> on one RQDX3. Puting the TK50 out of the BA23 and mounting the second
> RD54 in the BA23 would have been much simpler. But not the DEC way of
> live. ;-)
Because old hard drives take a lot of current. The PSU and wiring loom
won't take a full backplane and two hard drives.
I did one of mine a different way. I have a BA11-N with the backplane
modified to be 22-bit. In it is an RQDX2 (or an RQDX3, depending on what's
been shuffled around this month), with a 50-way ribbon cable going to a DEC
box (used to be a TKZ50) which has a PSU, a hard drive, and an RX50. In
the box is also a small PCB I made to do the job of the distribution board
found in a BA123. Also in the BA11-N backplane is a modified BDV11, with a
pair of 28-pin EPROM sockets which normally hold microPDP-11/23 boot ROMs.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Jan 19, 22:35, jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> Only the first 3 slots are Q/CD. The other 5 slots are Q/Q in serpentine
> bus grant wiring. Tony said that the memory should be in the first
> slot.
Lothar later said this is an H9276-A. That's a straight backplane, all
Q22/CD. It seems he has a BA11-S not a BA23 :-)
BTW, DEC normally recommended all comms and network cards go after the
memory, tapes next, then disks.
> AFAIK some 11/73 labeld boxen where sold with a 11/83 CPU in the first
> slot and the memory in the second.
It's the order of the boards (and the boot ROMs) that make it 11/73 or
11/83, not the circuit board. Though original 11/73s are 15MHz and
original 11/83s are 18MHz.
> AFAIK a 11/83 CPU can use QBus and (or?) PMI memory. If it is
> configured with QBus memory it is calld a "11/73". But keep in mind
> that there is a "real" 11/73 CPU (M8192 = KDJ11-A).
That's a dual-height board, CPU only, with no boot ROMs, LTC, or SLUs. It
was only sold as an OEM product or as an upgrade to 11/03 or 11/23 (not
11/23+ or microPDP-11/23) systems. Whilst it is a "real 11/73", it's no
more "real" than any other :-)
> Hmm. Are there Q/CD only BA23 backplanes?
No. There are straight Q/CD and serpentine Q/Q backplanes of the same size
but they're only used in other boxes (like BA11-N and BA11-S) or sold as
OEM units.
> I never saw a front panel like that, but your assumption sounds right.
> All my front panels have only one disk write protect / online switch.
The BA23 was only rated for one hard disk and either a TK50 or an RX50, but
the BA123 (which uses the same panels) was rated for up to 4 MSCP devices.
That's why the WP and ONLINE switches and LEDs are on a subassembly, so
you can add another one.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
lcc is not public-domain nor GPL, but it is freely available for `personal
research and instructional use,' and in general there is no restriction as
long as you don't redistribute it for profit or resell it.
Here's the official scoop, as inscribed in ./CPYRIGHT in the lcc 3.6
distribution. It is possible that the terms have changed for newer
versions; I haven't been keeping track.
----
The authors of this software are Christopher W. Fraser and
David R. Hanson.
Copyright (c) 1991,1992,1993,1994,1995 by AT&T, Christopher W. Fraser,
and David R. Hanson. All Rights Reserved.
Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any
purpose, subject to the provisions described below, without fee is
hereby granted, provided that this entire notice is included in all
copies of any software that is or includes a copy or modification of
this software and in all copies of the supporting documentation for
such software.
THIS SOFTWARE IS BEING PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED
WARRANTY. IN PARTICULAR, NEITHER THE AUTHORS NOR AT&T MAKE ANY
REPRESENTATION OR WARRANTY OF ANY KIND CONCERNING THE MERCHANTABILITY
OF THIS SOFTWARE OR ITS FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
lcc is not public-domain software, shareware, and it is not protected
by a `copyleft' agreement, like the code from the Free Software
Foundation.
lcc is available free for your personal research and instructional use
under the `fair use' provisions of the copyright law. You may, however,
redistribute lcc in whole or in part provided you acknowledge its
source and include this CPYRIGHT file. You may, for example, include
the distribution in a CDROM of free software, provided you charge only
for the media, or mirror the distribution files at your site.
You may not sell lcc or any product derived from it in which it is a
significant part of the value of the product. Using the lcc front end
to build a C syntax checker is an example of this kind of product.
You may use parts of lcc in products as long as you charge for only
those components that are entirely your own and you acknowledge the use
of lcc clearly in all product documentation and distribution media. You
must state clearly that your product uses or is based on parts of lcc
and that lcc is available free of charge. You must also request that
bug reports on your product be reported to you. Using the lcc front
end to build a C compiler for the Motorola 88000 chip and charging for
and distributing only the 88000 code generator is an example of this
kind of product.
Using parts of lcc in other products is more problematic. For example,
using parts of lcc in a C++ compiler could save substantial time and
effort and therefore contribute significantly to the profitability of
the product. This kind of use, or any use where others stand to make a
profit from what is primarily our work, requires a license agreement
with Addison-Wesley. Per-copy and unlimited use licenses are
available; for more information, contact
J. Carter Shanklin
Addison Wesley Longman, Inc.
2725 Sand Hill Rd.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
415/854-0300 x2478 FAX: 415/614-2930 jcs(a)aw.com
-----
Chris Fraser / cwfraser(a)microsoft.com
David Hanson / drh(a)cs.princeton.edu
$Revision: 1.3 $ $Date: 1996/09/30 13:55:00 $
On Jan 20, 12:44, jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> On 19 Jan, Pete Turnbull wrote:
>
> > Not the 54- number, that's only the PCB part. The backplane itself has
> >a model number; for a BA23 it should be H9728-A.
> "H9728-A"? The sticker on the two BA23 backplanes I have here says
> "H9278-A".
Typo.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Jan 20, 2:05, lothar felten wrote:
> mine is about 40 inch high, 19 inch wide and
> as deep as
> the rl02 is. the "microcomputer interfaces
> 1983-84" shows
> some pictures of boxes: is might be the
> BA11-S
Sounds like you have what was a standard PDP-11/23 (or maybe 11/23+) system
in an office-type cabinet (H9642 or equivalent), with an RL02 in the top, a
stiffener panel, BA11-N or BA11-S box, a second RL02, and two blanking
plates at the bottom. Sometimes people moved the second RL02 down 3U and
put one blanking plate or an expansion box between the BA11 and the RL02.
As far as I remember, the only significant difference between a BA11-N and
a BA11-S is an uprated power supply, and a 22-bit backplane instead of an
18-bit one (but you can upgrade the 18-bit ones).
> on the backplane i found H9276-A.
> i don´t know what -A means, but it should be
> a Q22/CD
> so no serpentine?
Correct. There is a very similar backplane H9275-A which is all
serpentine, but not in a standard 11/23 box, as far as I remember. H9276-A
is for a BA11-S. BA11-N uses H9273.
> now i´ve got the numbers here:
> CPU: M8190-AE KDJ11-B
> MEM: M7551-CC MSVC11-QC
> RL02: M8061
> DELQA: M7516
> RQDX3: M7555
> DEQNA: M7546
OK. That should be fine, so long as there are no gaps in the A/B slots
(left side of backplane as you look into it from the back of the machine)
between the cards.
The original 11/23+ probably had an RQDX1 or RQDX2, and possibly an RLV11,
and certainly different memory.
> hmmm, this is really confusing, since i have
> AE can it take an FPU? maybe it has a fpu? what
> does the fpu look like?
The -AE means it's a later board, should be 18MHz, and should not only be
FPU-capable, it should actually have the FPJ-11 chip on it. -AD is the
same thing without the FPJ-11 fitted (it still does floating point ops,
just more slowly). If not, you'll probably find it easier to get a
replacement board with an FPU already on it, rather than get the FPU chip
on it's own.
> > However, the biggest difference between 11/83 and 11/73 is whether
> > memory is used as QBus memory, or PMI memory, which is faster. the
>
> so i should put in first memory then cpu.
To get the best performance, yes. It won't double the speed, or anything
like that, but it will go a bit faster.
> well it´s a BA11-S i suppose by now.
If it's an H9276 backplane and H7861 PSU, yes.
> a weird pdp.
Not quite factory-standard :-) But none the less good.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Jan 19, 20:47, lothar felten wrote:
> hi there!
>
> well the pdp was once a pdp 11/23+ so
> enclosure and backplane should be
> the same as a 11/23 (ba 23).
If I were to be really picky, I'd say you meant microPDP-11/23. 11/23-plus
would mean a BA11-S enclosure with a different type of backplane :-)
> backplane should
> be Q22/CD configuration, but
> i´ll open the box and look for the 501-
> number to be sure.
Not the 54- number, that's only the PCB part. The backplane itself has a
model number; for a BA23 it should be H9728-A.
In an H9728-A the top three slots are Q22/CD-interconnect, and the rest are
Q22/Q22 serpentine (the 11/23-plus backplanes are different). When I
replied to your earlier email I assumed you just gave the order of the
boards, not the layout. The layout should be (reverse the positions of CPU
and memory if you wish):
---------KDJ11-B-CPU---------
---------MSV11-memory--------
------------RLV12------------
----RQDX3---- ----TQK50----
empty ----DEQNA----
I'm guessing you have a single memory board, probably an MSV11-Q (M7551),
and an RLV12 (M8061, one quad board) rather than an RLV11 (two quad boards)
-- if not, that makes a difference to the layout. I'm also guessing at a
DEQNA (M7504) rather than any other Ethernet controller, but it makes no
difference to the placement, so long as it's a dual-height board. If you
added another dual-height board it would go under the RQDX3 (M7555), the
next would go under that, and the next under the DELQA, etc. The
arrangement of the slots after the first three is called "serpentine" or
occasionally "zig-zag".
> on the back there
> is a sticker saying this is a 11/73. the
> cpu-board is a 11/83.(i´ll pass
> the number too).
All the KDJ11-B processors, whether 11/73 or 11/83, use the same printed
circuit board and module number. There were some differences about whether
an FPU could be fitted (due to an error on the original boards); those that
would not take an FPU were only sold as KDJ11-BC and all had 15MHz clocks.
Others with 15MHz clocks were sold as KDJ11-BB (upgradeable but FPU not
fitted). There are also some with 18MHz clocks, these were sold as
KDJ11-BE, -BF, or higher. Normally an 11/83 has a KDJ11-BE or higher
suffix. Early 11/73 are 15MHz. Just to add to the confusion, the -Bx
suffix actually refers to the EPROMs on the board, not the clock speed or
the FPU. The *only* difference between a normal KDJ11-BE or -BF or -BH is
the firmware in the EPROMs.
However, the biggest difference between 11/83 and 11/73 is whether the
memory is used as QBus memory, or PMI memory, which is faster. All of the
KDJ11-B boards can use PMI memory. Beware, not all quad memory boards are
PMI-capable, but all the 1MB and bigger ones that I can think of are.
> do all 11/83 use PMI ?
Yes. They will work with QBus memory instead (and if you put a PMI board
after the processor instead of before it, it will run as normal QBus
memory)
but then what you have is effectively an 11/73, not an 11/83.
> but the memory seems to work, or has
> the cpu board some memory on it?
No, there's no memory on the CPU board, but the memory you have is running
as QBus memory.
> when i picked up the box they booted it, i
> suppose this configuration was the
> way they used it there and should have
> worked.
> the RD54 controller has a 50pin ribboncable
> wich goes to a small board (wich
> was hanging on the backside) and a small
> frontpanel (from a 11/83 or 73) was
> hanging on it.
Literally "hanging"? Not fixed to the front of the BA23? Is this actually
a floor-standing (or possibly rack-mounting) BA23 with space for a TK50 and
a drive unit, or a rackmount BA11-S or BA11-N chassis with no space for
drives?
> it looks like
>
> *************
> * *'''''* O is a round hole (to hold a batch?)
> * O *'''''* '' is a big hole (power switch i suppose)
> * *'''''*
> *************
> * X B * X = run on/off ?(green led) B = reset ?
> * X X * X = write protect (red) X = online(green) for disk 0 ?
> * X X * X = write protect (red) X = online(green) for disk 1 ?
> *************
> X is a switch with led B is a button with led
> i never saw a pdp with this frontpanel
Neither have I. DEC used pushbuttons for the disk controls on microPDP-11
panels. Each section is separate, though; it sounds like someone has
replaced the pushbuttons or used third-party sub-panels. The round hole
(if this is an original DEC panel) is for the badge that says whether it's
a microPDP-11/23, microPDP-11/73, microPDP-11/83, microPDP-11/53, etc. The
rectangular hole is for the power switch in a BA23 or BA123 cabinet.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
hi there!
well the pdp was once a pdp 11/23+ so
enclosure and backplane should be
the same as a 11/23 (ba 23). backplane should
be Q22/CD configuration, but
i´ll open the box and look for the 501-
number to be sure. on the back there
is a sticker saying this is a 11/73. the
cpu-board is a 11/83.(i´ll pass
the number too). do all 11/83 use PMI ? but
the memory seems to work, or has
the cpu board some memory on it?
when i picked up the box they booted it, i
suppose this configuration was the
way they used it there and should have
worked.
the RD54 controller has a 50pin ribboncable
wich goes to a small board (wich
was hanging on the backside) and a small
frontpanel (from a 11/83 or 73) was
hanging on it. it looks like
*************
* *'''''* O is a round hole (to hold a
batch?)
* O *'''''* '' is a big hole (power
switch i suppose)
* *'''''*
*************
* X B * X = run on/off ?(green led)
B = reset ?
* X X * X = write protect(red led) X
= online(green led) for disk 0 ?
* X X * X = write protect(red led) X
= online(green led) for disk 1 ?
*************
X is a switch with led B is a button with led
i never saw a pdp with this frontpanel, and
since there is nothing written on it,
i tried to compare with a picture found on
the web, but i´m not sure if i´m right.
can someone tell me if i´m right ?
i asked those guys from where i picked up the
box, but they told me that the last guy
using the pdp left some years ago, and in
1999 they just powered it off. this explains
also the small paper sticking on the pdp that
showed how to login and shutdown the box.
root password is written on it *g*.
tomorrow i´ll open the box again.
thanks for your fast response.
-- lothar
FWIW, I don't know about the tape error, but
that layout looks OK apart
>from the fact that if it's an 11/83, the
memory shold be in the first slot
and the CPU in the second. The essential
difference between an 11/73 and
an 11/83 is that the 11/83 uses PMI memory.
Assuming your backplane is the
right one, in a BA23 or BA123 box, and that
your memory is a single 4MB
board, you should swap them round, otherwise
what you actually have is an
11/73.
I assume your RD54 controller is a genuine
DEC RQDX3, so it's in the right
place. It's possible you have an old version
of the firmware on it, but it
should still work even if you do.
all the planes in the backplane are genuine
dec parts.
--
Pete
What enclosure? BA23? If yes you have empty
slots between the cards as
this box has 3 Q/CD slots on top and 5 Q/Q
slots below. Have a look at
the QBus HOWTO at
http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/
--
tschuess,
Jochen
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 08:36:05AM +0100, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is anyone using GCC to compile code for the PDP-11?
on the PDP or cross-compiled? (will gcc run under 2.11?)
--
Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofygoof.com
"Making people dance so hard their pants almost fall
off is kind of fun." -- David Evans
