TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

30 participants
6496 discussions

Re: [TUHS] Bringing up any 4.3BSD on a MicroVAX without tape....

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

robertdkeys(a)aol.com wrote: > The problem is that it won't install boot blocks that work. > None of the raboot/rdboot/bootra/bootrd combos get > any farther than the cryptic "loading boot" message. The "loading boot" message comes from the bootblock code and indicates that the bootblocks are good and working. If it stops there, it means that you are missing the /boot file in the root filesystem (that's what it's loading). MS

19 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Ancient unixes

by Brantley Coile

oops. sorry. it is http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/spe.html

19 years, 6 months

Re: [TUHS] Ancient unixes

by Brantley Coile

this name `internet' name space was considered and rejected. it's harder than one would think to get details right for all networks, the addess is only a small part of the information needed for the connection, and keeping a name space for all the internet updated would be very hard. instead they use a network!machine!port syntax with the dial command. you can follow the full development of those ideas in the following papers. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/who/dmr/spe.html http://cm.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/net/net.html remember. seventh edition was relase in 1977. Jimmy Carter was president, ``Anne Hall'' won best picture, and the Chevy Nova was a big hit.

19 years, 7 months

Status of "32i"

by Paul Duffy

Hi, Been reading through the list, just wondering did anything further come of the whole 32V/i project? Last mail about it i see was back in April 2004. -Paul "There is no greater sorrow then to remember times of happiness when miserable" -- Dante "The Inferno"

19 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] Legality of porting ancient UNIX

by Jose R Valverde

Well, if I remember well, there was this little nifty legal argument between ATT USL and UCB BSDI in the early '90s that was settled out of court. One of the factors that helped settle (again if I remember well) was that ATT had failed to adequately state its Copyright on UNIX version 32V (may be more, my memory's weak) that had been distributed in source code, and hence those sources by the then current Copyright law, had fallen in the Public Domain. Then, if my recollection is right (better look at the documents on the case available on dmr's web page), you could do as you well damn please with those sources. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bsdi/bsdisuit.html >From one of the rulings: "Consequently, I find that Plaintiff has failed to demonstrate a likelihood that it can successfully defend its copyright in 32V. Plaintiff's claims of copyright violations are not a basis for injunctive relief." For others, the license otorgued by Caldera when they released the source (a BSD look-alike) would allow you to as well to a large extent. No need to go to the Open Group. Besides, they own the trademark (i.e. you could not call the product UNIX without their permission) but not the code (besides their own microkernel developments). j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 7 months

Legality of porting ancient Unix.

by John Chung

There has been a lot of talk about ancient unix lately. I do know there are quite a few ports for the ancient unix but the main question is it legal? It is possible to port and distribute the port without the warth of the company that owns the IP? Regards, John Chung __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/

19 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

by Jose R Valverde

>Does anyone know where and how one obtains the "ancient unix" sources, >particularly 32V? Pardon? Obviously, at TUHS! www.tuhs.org particularly ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/VAX/Distributions/32V j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] Ancient unixes

by Jose R Valverde

Waddayamean? I mean: what does it mean to you 'the spirit of ancient Unix'? If by that you mean the fact that they were simple, slim and efficient, doing one simple thing and doing it right, you may then consider the effort by ast in the 80's with MINIX. OK, it used it's own microkernel, but the basic idea is the same... and has been followed on by Mach, BSD-lites, Flex, MacOS X, Tru64, Linux on L4, etc... As a matter of fact I always felt UNIX after v7 got it wrong: e.g. network data is no longer another stream (I'd have loved it to be a file system with directories representing network addresses and ports being files or pipes). Thus, later unices increased complexity by abandoning the simlicity of the original design. If that is the case, Plan 9 is a good update. And so is Inferno. Actually, I always felt that many additions to UNIX might have been better implemented outside the kernel if only the kernel had been expanded to allow user-mode expansions. But that's already here with kernel modules in Linux, BSDs, Solaris, etc... which are becoming more and more microkernelized each day. As microkernels become bigger :-) OTOH, if you mean adding 'modern' services, perhaps QNX is doing it with its support for Real-time. Or adding dynamic libraries, networking, modern virtual memory (beyond swapping), etc... which at the plainest level is what more or less likeably all modern UNIX have done. Extending into the future? Distributed computing, clusters, etc? Like some commercial UNIX, Amoeba, Inferno and the like? If you only mean resurrecting these ancient UNIX on modern hardware, there have been initiatives to rewrite v7 alike systems for other architectures (say OMU, UZI, MINIX, Coherent, Xinu, etc.). But for that you already have emulators that provide you the original flavor at even higher speeds in a virtualized environment. So? waddayamean? I think the answer to your question is YES! Lots of people have tried to improve ancient UNIX more or less successfully, and many people is still trying, using microkernels, no-kernels, adding RT, VM, dynamic libraries, kernel modules, etc... Each with their own approach. This said, if I were to pick an initiative that gets closest to the wishes of the original designers, that should undoubtedly be Plan 9 and its successor, Inferno, as they are what the 'Original Designers' themselves have done when they tried to repeat it doing it 'right' (or at least better) no matter what my personal opinions regarding the issue may be. Regarding my opinion, yes, I would go for the good old leather-bound days of IBM mainframes with MVS. (zOS?) which oddly enough are finally reaching the rest of us with Xen and emulators like QEMU. If I were to wish, I'd like a no-kernel approach (everything independent, cooperating, hot-substitutable, fully migratable processes) over a virtualizing system that allows me to run several OSs and update/change any OS component on the fly without service interruption, and to migrate everything between machines on demand ('cos of overload or hw failures or whatever, or just 'cos I wish to). Now, _that_ would IMHO be close to ultimate OS design: something that can always be updated on the fly and may survive any change, something that can adapt and evolve without interruption or even the user noticing. But that is a complex enough concept to expect most system programmers to grasp, let alone sysadmins, programmers or users not to pervert. Not to talk of salesmen and marketroids! j -- Jose R. Valverde EMBnet/CNB ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 7 months

Re: [TUHS] ancient unixes

by Norman Wilson

Bill Cunningham: Has anyone had the idea to take the ancient unix, at least in spirit into the modern age? Warren Toomey: Plan 9? ======= Plan 9 is to UNIX as SVr4.2.2.2.2.2.2 is to Sixth Edition. If that's the spirit of the modern age, give me the good old leather-bound days, without all that modern rhythm- type dancing and hooting and waving. Norman Wilson Toronto ON PS: This message is not intended to supply the minimum daily requirement of serious thought. Consult your doctor or pharmacist, but not the one that just sent you electronic junk mail or promises to make explicit drugs fast.

19 years, 7 months

ancient unixes

by Bill Cunningham

Has anyone had the idea to take the ancient unix, at least in spirit into the modern age? Bill

19 years, 7 months

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