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Running V8 - is a distro runnable directly, or does it need BSD 4.1

by Will Senn

I remember a thread on the mailing list a while back where Warren announced the availability of the V8-V10 source code and being intrigued at the possibility of running it. Then I recently came across a note by dmr referring to V8 and further tweaking my interest: http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2003-June/002195.html Here's what he said: As for the system aspects: K&R 1 (1978) was done on what would soon be 7th edition Unix, on 11/70; K&R 2 (1988) using 9th edition on VAX 8550. Kernighan and Pike's Unix Programming Evironment (1984) used 8th edition on VAX 11/750. About the releases (or pseudo releases) that Norman mentions: actually 8th edition was somewhat real, in that a consistent tape and captured, probably corresponds fairly well with its manual, and was educationally licensed for real, though not in large quantity. 9th and 10th were indeed more conceptual in that we sent stuff to people (e.g. Norman) who asked, but they weren't collected in complete and coherent form. This combined with my tinkering with V7 and working through K&R (1978) got me hankering to go through K&P (1984) on a Vax running V8. Then, I came across this: https://virtuallyfun.com/2017/03/30/research-unix-v8/ and decided to jump in and start running V8. Then it hit me - is it even possible to run a V8 instance (similarly to V5/V6/V7, from tape) or is it as this note says, necessary to run the bits on a 4.1 BSD base? How realistic would the experience be to actually running the system described in the Unix Programming Environment if it's actually running BSD 4.1... Thanks for any insights y'all might have on this. Thanks, Will -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF

7 years, 6 months

Re: stty erase '^?' in v7

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Will Senn > All that cooked and raw stuff is gobbledegook that I'll have to read up > on. The raw/cooked stuff isn't the source of the worst hair in the TTY driver; that would be delays (on the output side), and delimiter processing (on the input side). The delays are for mechanical terminals, because they need delays after a motion command (e.g. NL, CR, etc) before the next printing character is sent; differing for different motion control commands, further complexified by the current print head position - a Carriage Return from column 70 taking a lot longer than one from column 10. The driver keeps track of the current column, so it can calculate this! It does the delays by putting in the output queue a chacter with the high bit set, and the delay in the low bits; the output start routine looks for these, and does the delay. On the input side, every time it sees a delimiter (NL, EOF), it inserts a 0xFF byte in the input queue, and increments a counter to keep track of how many it has inserted. I _think_ this is so that any given read call on a 'cooked' terminal will return at most one line of input (although I don't know why they don't just parse the buffer contents at read time - although I guess they need the delimiter count so the read call will wait if there is not a complete line there yet). I should look and see how the MIT TTY driver (which also supported 8-bit input and output) dealt with these... Noel

7 years, 6 months

Re: stty erase '^?' in v7

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Will Senn > I didn't know that the delete key served a purpose, interrupt At MIT, the PWB1 (effectively) system that was standard at Tech Sq had had its teletype driver completely re-written by the time I started using it, and that was changed, so I never saw this IRL. Recently, I needed a Unix to run under Ersatz-11, to talk to physical QBUS -11's and download them over their console line, so I went with V6 (since I had not at that point managed to recover the MIT system). Wow. Talk about a rude awakening! That was one of the things that was, ah, problematic - and in V6, there's no way to change the interrupt character. (And no, I didn't feel like switching to a later version!) An even bigger problem was that in vanilla V6, there's _no way_ to do 8-bit input _and_ output. Sheesh. I managed to fix that too, after a certain amount of pain. (I missed a code path, or something like that, and it took me quite a while to figure out why my fixes didn't work.) Noel

7 years, 6 months

4.2BSD steering committee members

by Paul Ruizendaal

Many thanks for on and off list replies to my query. I happened to stumble across a paper by Krik McKusick (right here in the THUS archives) that has some more background: http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Unix_Review/Berkeley_Unix_History… and in particular on page 38 of the magazine (page 6 of the PDF). It says (with some reformatting for clarity): "The contract called for major work to be done on the system so the DARPA research community could better do its work. Based on the needs of the DARPA community, goals were set and work began to define the modifications to the system. In particular, the new system: - was expected to include a faster file system that would raise throughput to the speed of available disk technology, - would support processes with multi-gigabyte address space requirements, - would provide flexible interprocess communication facilities that would allow researchers to do work in distributed systems, - would integrate networking support so that machines running the new system could easily participate in the ARPAnet.” So, IPC facilities to support distributed systems were apparently an explicit goal, and that helps explain the composition of the committee. It continues: "To assist in defining the new system, Duane Adams, Berkeley's contract monitor at DARPA, formed a group known as the "steering committee” to help guide the design work and ensure that the research community's needs were addressed. This committee met twice a year between April, 1981 and June, 1983, and included [name list as before]. Beginning in 1984, these meetings were supplanted by workshops that were expanded to include many more people.” This shift in membership after 4.2BSD shipped had already been noted. The committee seems to have had a productive start: "An initial document proposing facilities to be included in the new system was circulated to the steering committee and other people outside Berkeley in July, 1981, sparking many lengthy debates.” I would assume that those initial discussions included debates on what would become the socket API. I’ve asked Kirk McKusick if he still remembered that initial discussion document. The reply was: "The document to which you refer became known as the "BSD System Manual". The earliest version that I could find was the one distributed with 4.2BSD in July 1983 which I have attached.” If anyone knows of earlier versions of that document (prior to 1982), I’d be highly interested. The paper also notes: "During the summer, Joy concentrated on implementing a prototype version of the interprocess communication facilities.” I’ll scan the early (partial) SCCS logs for remnants of that (a long shot, but worth a try). Paul

7 years, 6 months

Re: stty erase '^?' in v7

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Will Senn > 1. How do you escape # in order to write a C program if # is the erase > character in the terminal? "Use the source, Luke!" V7 is simple enough that it's pretty quick to find the answers to things like this. E.g. http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V7/usr/sys/dev/tty.c> will answer this question (in "canon()"). > 3. Is there a way to echo the ascii value of a keypress in v7? A quick look through tty.c suggests this doesn't exist in V7 - without running a user program that puts the TTY in 'raw' mode and prints out what it sees. Not sure if there is one off the rack, or if you'd have to whip up a 20-line program to do it. Noel

7 years, 6 months

help building kernel after fresh install of V7

by Will Senn

After installing a fresh simh V7 instance with 2 RP06's and a TU10, I tried building the kernel and running it. I got a panic. I didn't mess with the defaults, so I'm at a loss as to how the stock kernel is different from the one I built. I tried building as root, then sys, same effect. Here's what I did: nboot.ini contents: set cpu 11/70 set cpu 2M set cpu idle set rp0 rp06 att rp0 rp06-0.disk set rp1 rp06 att rp1 rp06-1.disk boot rp0 pdp11 nboot.ini boot hp(0,0)unix (actually renamed hptmunix) mem = 2020544 CTRL-D login: root cd /usr/sys/conf make allsystems ... build stuff, no errors or warnings mv hptmunix / sync sync CTRL-E quit the sim pdp11 nboot.ini boot hp(0,0)hptmunix mem = 2021696 err on dev 0/0 bn=1 er=100000,4507 err on dev 0/0 bn=1 er=100000,4521 err on dev 0/0 ... etc. Am I doing something wrong or missing an important configuration step. I am just trying to rebuild the stock kernel before I try any reconfigurations. -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF

7 years, 6 months

New PDF version of Installing and Using Research Unix Version 7 In the SimH PDP-11/45 and 11/70 Emulators

by Will Senn

Hi all, I just finished creating an updated PDF version of a blog post I did a couple of years back, describing how to install and use Unix v7 in SimH. It's updated for 2017 and MacOS High Sierra 10.13. I started the update because I was wanting to do some research in v7 and thought it would be good to have a current set of instructions but really because I was interested in learning a bit about LaTeX and creating prettier, more useful documents. The notes still work fine as originally written, but I organized things a little differently and tweaked some of the language. I thought somebody else might like having a PDF version around so I uploaded the result, call it revision 1.1, and made it publicly accessible (the blog still needs updating, somebody oughta do something about link impermanence, but that's all for another day). Feel free to comment or complain. I added a section in honor of dmr at one commenter's suggestion. Here's the link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-Zmx1TjR3TENDQTA Later, Will -- GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF

7 years, 6 months

SGI Software Usability II (IRIX 5.1 memo)

by Michael-John Turner

Hi, I came across this on Lobsters[1] today and thought it may be of interest to the list: http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/tirix/embarrassing-memo.html It appears to be an internal SGI memo that's rather critical of IRIX 5.1. Does anyone know if it's true? [1] https://lobste.rs/ Cheers, MJ -- Michael-John Turner * mj(a)mjturner.net * http://mjturner.net/

7 years, 6 months

Re: SGI Software Usability II (IRIX 5.1 memo)

by Don Hopkins

When I was working at UniPress in New Jersey, we had an SGI Iris named pink on which we developed the 4Sight versions of NeWS Emacs (NeMACS). Speaking of SGI leaks: Those things are fucking heavy! It was raining torrentially outside and the UniPress office started to flood, so we had to keep taking shelves down off the wall and wedging them underneath the Iris to jack it up above the water, as it kept getting deeper and deeper. Ron will remember the emergency bailing technique MG and I developed of repeatedly filling the shop vac with water then flushing it down the toilet. The Indigos were another story entirely: They couldn't touch the raw graphics performance of an Iris, since the rendering was all in software, but you could actually stuff one of them in the overhead compartment on an airplane! And then there was the SGI Indy... They made up for being small on the outside, by being HUGE and BLOATED in the inside: "Indy: an Indigo without the 'go'". -- Mark Hughes (?) This legendary leaked SGI memo has become required reading for operating system and programming language design courses: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~cs415/reading/irix-bloat.txt <http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~cs415/reading/irix-bloat.txt> -Don > On 12 Oct 2017, at 15:16, Don Hopkins <SimHacker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLDnPiXyME0 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLDnPiXyME0> > >> On 12 Oct 2017, at 15:04, Michael-John Turner <mj(a)mjturner.net <mailto:mj@mjturner.net>> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I came across this on Lobsters[1] today and thought it may be of interest to the list: http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/tirix/embarrassing-memo.html <http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/tirix/embarrassing-memo.html> >> >> It appears to be an internal SGI memo that's rather critical of IRIX 5.1. Does anyone know if it's true? >> >> [1] https://lobste.rs/ <https://lobste.rs/> >> >> Cheers, MJ -- >> Michael-John Turner * mj(a)mjturner.net <mailto:mj@mjturner.net> * http://mjturner.net/ <http://mjturner.net/> >

7 years, 6 months

RIP Dennis Ritchie

by Dave Horsfall

We lost co-inventor of Unix and sheer genius Dennis Ritchie on this day in 2011; there's not really much more that I can say... Sic transit gloria mundi. -- Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

7 years, 6 months

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