Been wanting to wade into this for a few days but needed to think about how.
I think that we're all aware that RMS has atrocious personal habits. But I
don't think that this mailing list is the place to discuss them unless it's
somehow in the context of UNIX.
Many seem to excuse RMS's revisionist view of the history of technology on
the grounds that RMS claims that his memory isn't very good. I think that
if he knows that he doesn't remember things then he should refrain from
talking about them as if he does.
As others have said, I don't conflate coding prowess with the ability to
design. I've had many an argument with John Gilmore (one of the people
who doesn't mind footing the cleaning and repair bill after allowing RMS
to stay at his place) where he begins with "When I wrote GNU tar..." I've
always responded by saying that writing tar is no big deal; the specification
was the hard part.
One place where I completely disagree with RMS that I think is in context
for this list is his claim that Linux should be called GNU/Linux. I've
written tons of software in my life, and I don't preface the name of each
one with the parts list.
Even if one believed that such an attribution scheme made sense, I would
claim that it should be called internet/Linux. I would argue that Linux
would not have happened without the internet making it possible for folks
around the world to participate. And I think that there's a good chance
that the tools would have been created anyway.
Of course, I acknowledge that the GNU tools have been ported to Linux.
Big deal. I haven't seen RMS arguing for GNU/Windows now that Microsoft
has seen the light.
Like many of you, Linux is not where I first started using GNU tools; I
started using them on my Sun machines after Sun started charging extra
for the compiler and included a licensing system that was broken and often
interfered with getting work done.
Jon
I think the RMS stuff should go away. It's not because I love the guy,
I don't. It's because we have people like Ken and Rob and other heavy
hitters and my hunch is they have little patience for this sort of thing
(they might correct me if I'm wrong).
I'd love to call out RMS on his BS but this isn't the place. This is
the place for people who actually did real work on Unix to share those
stories. Or so I think, it's up to Warren, not me.
I was given a copy of Walter Isaacson's "The Innovators: How a Group of
Hackers, Geniuses, and Geeks Created the Digital Revolution". It devotes
ten pages to Stallman and Gnu, Torvalds and Linux, even Tannebaum and
Minix, but never mentions Thompson and Ritchie. Unix is identified only
as a product from Bell Labs from which the others learned something--he
doesn't say what. I have heard also that Isaacson's "Idea Factory"
(about Bell Labs) barely mentions Unix. Is Isaacson blind, biased,
or merely brainwashed?
In the case of Steve Jobs, Isaacson tells not just that the Alto system
from Xerox inspired him, but also who its star creators were: Lampson,
Thacker and Kay. But then he stomps on them: "Once again, the greatest
innovation would come not from the people who created the breakthroughs,
but from the people who applied them usefully." While he very describes
innovation as a continuum from invention through engineering to marketing,
he seems to be more impressed by the later stages.
Or maybe he just likes to tell stories, and didn't pick up all the
good ones about Ken. Isaacson describes spacewar, arguably the first
stage of computer-game innovation, at great length. At the same time,
all he has to say about early-stage operating systems is a single
sentence that credits John McCarthy with leading a time-sharing effort
at MIT. (In my recollection, McCarthy proseletized; Corbato led.) He
tells how ARPANET, which he says was mainly developed by BB&N, connected
time-shared computers, but breathes not a word about Berkeley's work,
without which ARPANET would have been an open circuit.
"Innovators" won general critical praise. A couple of reviews predicted
it would become the standard of the field. However, an evidently
knowledgeable review in IEEE Annals of the History of Computing faulted
it for peddling familiar potted legends without really digging for
deeper insight. Regarding Thompson and Ritchie, it looks more like
overt suppression.
Doug
> On Jan 5, 2019,Paul Winalski <paul.winalski(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ... After Lampson
> left Xerox PARC he set up a similar outfit at Digital'--the Western
> Research Lab (WRL).
Actually, WRL was started by Forest Baskett, formerly of Stanford University. Butler Lampson joined DEC's Systems Research Center (SRC) shortly after it was formed by former PARC manager Bob Taylor.
> ... I was working in the software tools
> engineering group at the time, and we would have loved to take WRL's
> work and to incorporate it in our products. But we couldn't. Why?
> Because they wrote everything in Modula 3, and we were using BLISS.
SRC used Modula-3, and before that a similar language called Modula-2+. Originally, WRL used Modula-2, and then I think switched to C. Perhaps DEC’s engineering groups should also have switched from Bliss to C.
> Yes, PARC invented the modern windows-based GUI, but, as with so many
> PARC innovations, Xerox did nothing with it. Based on how the PARC
> alumni at WRL behaved at DEC,I would argue that this was the fault of
> PARC as much as of Xerox management.
Xerox built its Star office automation system based on PARC technology and with lots of support from PARC. Star was of course not a big success. PARC also invented laser printers, and Xerox made quite a bit of money from them.
Paul McJones (former Xerox SDD and DEC SRC member — I have been on both sides of the fence)
>>I have heard also that Isaacson's "Idea Factory" (about Bell Labs)
> Did you mean the work of this title by Jon Gertner?
Indeed. If should fact-check myself if I'm going to challenge
some one else's choice of facts.
Thanks for the catch,
Doug
>> From: Doug McIlroy
>> I have heard also that Isaacson's "Idea Factory" (about Bell Labs)
> Did you mean the work of this title by Jon Gertner? (I have yet to pull
> down my copy to see what it says about Unix
I looked, and it too says next to nothing about Unix (which it describes as a
"programming language" - pg. 346). Oh well.
This is really a pretty serious omission, given that the vast majority of
mobile devices now run Android, which is a Unix derivative (Linux). So just
about everyone has a Unix-derived thing in their pocket.
Noel
Long ago when we were running ACSnet
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHSnet) we lacked graphical
workstations so we never saw the Bell Labs face mail
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vismon) mechanism in action. I think
colleagues who later had Sun workstations might have briefly had
X-face in operation.
I see on Luca Cardelli's homepage that there was an icon for ACSnet
email, of course it is Kangaroo...
http://lucacardelli.name/indexArtifacts.html
scroll down Original 48x48 bitmaps for "face mail" at Bell Labs.
From: Doug McIlroy
> I have heard also that Isaacson's "Idea Factory" (about Bell Labs)
I was unable to find a book of this title by Isaacson? Did you mean the work
of this title by Jon Gertner? (I have yet to pull down my copy to see what it
says about Unix - it's in another room, and I'm lazy... :-)
> (In my recollection, McCarthy proseletized; Corbato led.)
I think that's an accurate 1-sentence summary.
> breathes not a word about Berkeley's work, without which ARPANET would
> have been an open circuit.
Can you elaborate on this point a bit - I'm not sure what it is you're
referring to?
> A couple of reviews predicted it would become the standard of the
> field.
Among people who spell 'Internet' with a lower-case 'i', perhaps it will
(sadly).
Noel
From: jkh(a)violet.Berkeley.EDU (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Subject: My Broadcast
Date: 2 April 1987 at 21:45:46 CEST
To: hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU, tcp-ip(a)sri-nic.arpa
By now, many of you have heard of (or seen) the broadcast message I sent to
the net two days ago. I have since received 743 messages and have
replied to every one (either with a form letter, or more personally
when questions were asked). The intention behind this effort was to
show that I wasn't interested in doing what I did maliciously or in
hiding out afterwards and avoiding the repercussions. One of the
people who received my message was Dennis Perry, the Inspector General
of the ARPAnet (in the Pentagon), and he wasn't exactly pleased.
(I hear his Interleaf windows got scribbled on)
So now everyone is asking: "Who is this Jordan Hubbard, and why is he on my
screen??"
I will attempt to explain.
I head a small group here at Berkeley called the "Distributed Unix Group".
What that essentially means is that I come up with Unix distribution software
for workstations on campus. Part of this job entails seeing where some of
the novice administrators we're creating will hang themselves, and hopefully
prevent them from doing so. Yesterday, I finally got around to looking
at the "broadcast" group in /etc/netgroup which was set to "(,,)". It
was obvious that this was set up for rwall to use, so I read the documentation
on "netgroup" and "rwall". A section of the netgroup man page said:
...
Any of three fields can be empty, in which case it signifies
a wild card. Thus
universal (,,)
defines a group to which everyone belongs. Field names that ...
...
Now "everyone" here is pretty ambiguous. Reading a bit further down, one
sees discussion on yellow-pages domains and might be led to believe that
"everyone" was everyone in your domain. I know that rwall uses point-to-point
RPC connections, so I didn't feel that this was what they meant, just that
it seemed to be the implication.
Reading the rwall man page turned up nothing about "broadcasts". It doesn't
even specify the communications method used. One might infer that rwall
did indeed use actual broadcast packets.
Failing to find anything that might suggest that rwall would do anything
nasty beyond the bounds of the current domain (or at least up to the IMP),
I tried it. I knew that rwall takes awhile to do its stuff, so I left
it running and went back to my office. I assumed that anyone who got my
message would let me know.. Boy, was I right about that!
After the first few mail messages arrived from Purdue and Utexas, I begin
to understand what was really going on and killed the rwall. I mean, how
often do you expect to run something on your machine and have people
from Wisconsin start getting the results of it on their screens?
All of this has raised some interesting points and problems.
1. Rwall will walk through your entire hosts file and blare at anyone
and everyone if you use the (,,) wildcard group. Whether this is a bug
or a feature, I don't know.
2. Since rwall is an RPC service, and RPC doesn't seem to give a damn
who you are as long as you're root (which is trivial to be, on a work-
station), I have to wonder what other RPC services are open holes. We've
managed to do some interesting, unauthorized, things with the YP service
here at Berkeley, I wonder what the implications of this are.
3. Having a group called "broadcast" in your netgroup file (which is how
it comes from sun) is just begging for some novice admin (or operator
with root) to use it in the mistaken belief that he/she is getting to
all the users. I am really surprised (as are many others) that this has
taken this long to happen.
4. Killing rwall is not going to solve the problem. Any fool can write
rwall, and just about any fool can get root priviledge on a Sun workstation.
It seems that the place to fix the problem is on the receiving ends. The
only other alternative would be to tighten up all the IMP gateways to
forward packets only from "trusted" hosts. I don't like that at all,
from a standpoint of reduced convenience and productivity. Also, since
many places are adding hosts at a phenominal rate (ourselves especially),
it would be hard to keep such a database up to date. Many perfectly well-
behaved people would suffer for the potential sins of a few.
I certainly don't intend to do this again, but I'm very curious as to
what will happen as a result. A lot of people got wall'd, and I would think
that they would be annoyed that their machine would let someone from the
opposite side of the continent do such a thing!
Jordan Hubbard
jkh(a)violet.berkeley.edu
(ucbvax!jkh)
Computer Facilities & Communications.
U.C. Berkeley
On 4 Jan 2019, at 21:46, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
>From where did that wonderful clip come? It's clearly a sequence from something else. I've never seen it before.
>Thanks,
>Clem
They were from my email archives of Hackers_Guild and the umd cs department staff mailing list. Does anybody else have any h_g archives sitting around?
Here’s some more funny stuff about the NSA! Gotta love how Brian Reid and Rick Adams weigh in. ;)
-Don
From: yee(a)dali.berkeley.edu (Peter E. Yee)
Subject: For those who missed 997@lll-crg, here it is
Date: 19 November 1985 at 15:58:08 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Relay-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site lll-crg.ARpA
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site lll-crg.ARpA
Path: lll-crg!bandy
From: bandy(a)lll-crg.ARpA (Andrew Scott Beals)
Newsgroups: net.net-people
Subject: oh YES the NSA is on the net!
Message-ID: <997(a)lll-crg.ARpA>
Date: 19 Nov 85 07:11:36 GMT
Date-Received: 19 Nov 85 07:11:36 GMT
References: <324(a)ucdavis.UUCP> <2253(a)umcp-cs.UUCP>
Reply-To: bandy(a)lll-crg.UUCP (Andrew Scott Beals)
Distribution: net
Organization: Computation Research Group, Lawrence Livermore Labs
Lines: 94
Summary: (let's say) unintentional dis-information corrected
In article <2253(a)umcp-cs.UUCP> tlr(a)umcp-cs.UUCP (Terry L. Ridder) writes:
I can almost guarantee that the National Security Agency is
not on USENET or ARPANET. I can further almost guarantee that
very few employees of NSA are even aware that USENET exist.
Signed
Terry L. Ridder
UUCP: seismo!(mimsy.umd.edu|neurad)!bilbo!wiretap!(root|tlr)
^^^^^^^
PHONE: 301-490-2248 (home) 301-859-6642 (work)
Right.
There used to be a host called "TYCHO" (nickname "NSA") at host
zero on imp fifty-seven. (26.0.0.57) (information taken from the old
NIC (Network Information Center for Internet) host tables)
Now there is a machine called "DOCKMASTER" on that same imp port
(TYCHO was an old PDP-11 running version 6 unix (which rumors had
flown for quite some time that someone actually proved was secure)).
Here is what the NIC has to say about DOCKMASTER:
The National Computer Security Center (DOCKMASTER)
820 Elkridge Landing Road
Room A1127, Building FANX-II
Linthicum, MD 21090
NetAddress: 26.0.0.57
Nicknames: NCSC-MULTICS
Host Administrator and Liaison:
Aliff, Stephen W. (SWA1) Aliff.DODCSC@MIT-MULTICS
(301) 850-5888
Multics, if I remember correctly, was just given some level of
certification by the government that it was secure. Interesting, no?
Unfortunately, I'm not nearly as much of a Packrat as some might like
to think so I don't have a Maryland phone book (I do have my silly
putty though), so I can't tell you where this exchange is located
(nor where Terry's work number is located). However, looking up
Linthicum MD (I was born and raised just north of DC) shows that
it's just north of BWI (airport). There is a NASA center right near
there and next to that is an un-marked (of course) NSA center.
All of this points that imp 57 is still NSA's imp.
NIC has this to say about host 1 on imp 57:
National Security Agency (COINS-GATEWAY)
COINS Network Control Center
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755
NetAddress: 26.1.0.57
Nicknames: COINS
Host Administrator and Liaison:
Smith, Ronald L. (RLS6) COINS@USC-ISI
(301) 688-6375
The NIC generally likes to give a machine the name "-GATEWAY" when
that machine is a gateway into another part of the internet. (the
machine type of COINS is a Plurbus, which is a multiprocessor
gateway machine manufactured by BBN (the folks who do the ARPANET
and MILNET hardware).
In any case, it seems that Mr Ridder is un-(or mis-?)informed.
Side note: at the last (Portland) USENIX, I happened across a
gentlemen (very cleancut) whose badge listed him as working for the
"Department of Defense, Fort Meade Maryland". I said "Oh, you're one
of those NSA guys!" To which he replied "How did you know?!"...
"Everyone else in DOD says /which/ part of DOD they work for..."
andrew scott beals
lawrence livermore national laboratory/university of california
Pooh-bah for LLL-CRG.ARPA
(415) 423-1948 (work) (533-1948 (FTS))
ps. In case anyone is wondering and before you go giving my name to
people that I don't want to talk to (like the Kind Folks at the NSA
(but I'm sure they've heard of me or will before I finish up with my
current round of paperwork with the DOE/OPM/FBI)), I obtained all of
this information through public channels.
--
There once was a thing called a V-2,
To pilot which you did not need to--
You just pushed a button,
And it would leave nuttin'
But stiffs and big holes and debris, too.
andy beals - bandy(a)lll-crg.arpa - {seismo,ihnp4!sun,dual}!lll-crg!bandy
From: jordan(a)ucbarpa.berkeley.edu (Jordan Hayes)
Subject: Re: ``dockmaster''
Date: 19 November 1985 at 16:27:34 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
for those so inclined, they should look at what is on port 2 of that
imp ... hmmm ... sorta like putting the CIA on port 4 of imp 78 ...
/jordan
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: Re: ``dockmaster''
Date: 19 November 1985 at 18:27:27 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu, jordan(a)ucbarpa.berkeley.edu
Maryland lets NSA people use mimsy. The NSA is interested in the
supercomputer designs that they're working on there... (which is
why they have an imp connection)
In any case, I just got a long note from Mr Ridder. I'll forward
it to you when I'm done reading my mail...
andy
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: message from Mr. Ridder
Date: 19 November 1985 at 18:31:44 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)lll-crg.ARPA
From tlr(a)mimsy.umd.edu Tue Nov 19 06:13:44 1985
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 85 09:12:54 EST
From: Terry L. Ridder <tlr(a)mimsy.umd.edu>
Subject: Your posting
Mr. Andrew Scott Beals
I am writing to inform you of at least two facts:
The computer named "wiretap" belongs to my children,
age 9, age 7, age 2. Jennifer, the 7 year old, named
the computer. Sarah, the 9 year old, named the other
computer "bilbo".
Bilbo and wiretap are both private machines. The are
owned by my family and I. They are in no way shape or
form associated with the NSA.
Concerning your posting, I am concerned that you have
no regard for the safety of federal employees. Your
posting is marked for distribution "net", if you would
look at the two previous posting they are marked for
distribution 'usa'. Therefore, you probably have just
told most of the world the location of what you believe
to be an NSA facility. This probably has made the location
a target for any of a number of terrorist groups. What if
you are wrong? You have place in danger the lifes of
innocent people. Just because you may think you know something
does not mean that you tell most of the world.
I would hope that in the future that you would take the
time to think about all the ramifications before making
a posting, similiar in nature to the one in question.
I would hope that you will send out a cancel message on
your posting, before it gets to far.
I sincerely hope that you restrict your speculations about
my family's association with any federal agency. I hope
also that you are mature enough to post an apology for
inferring that my computers were associated with the NSA.
I do not want to think of what the implications are from
that speculation on your part. You may have damaged my
family's reputation and my own reputation.
Please be a little more responsible in the future.
Engage brain before fingers.
Signed
Terry L. Ridder
for the Terry L. Ridder family
---------------------
From: fair(a)ucbarpa.berkeley.edu (Erik E. Fair)
Subject: Re: message from Mr. Ridder
Date: 19 November 1985 at 18:42:34 CET
To: bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA
Cc: Hackers_Guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
I wonder if this bozoid has ever read `The Puzzle Palace'?
It identifies several `secret' NSA installations, including
one out in the wilds of Sonoma, just over the border from
Marin County, along the road from Tomales to Petaluma. All
from public sources and Freedom Of Information Act suits.
Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair fair(a)ucbarpa.berkeley.edu
P.S. Be sure to waive hello in your Email to the folks at the
Maryland Procurement Office...
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: Re: message from Mr. Ridder
Date: 19 November 1985 at 19:11:36 CET
To: fair(a)ucbarpa.berkeley.edu
Cc: Hackers_Guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
[mimsy.umd.edu]
Login name: tlr In real life: Terry L. Ridder
Office: Laurel MD 20707 Office phone: 859-6642
Home phone: 490-2248 Arpanet Sponsor
Directory: /u/tlr Shell: /bin/csh
Last login Tue Nov 19 09:17 on tty04
Project: To find a new job, raise three children, and have time for the wife.
Plan: To move overseas.
----------------------
Well, this is what it has to say about him. Arpanet sponsor, eh?
andy
From: fair(a)ucbarpa.berkeley.edu (Erik E. Fair)
Subject: Re: message from Mr. Ridder
Date: 19 November 1985 at 19:48:41 CET
To: bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA
Cc: Hackers_Guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Ask Chris Torek what an `Arpanet Sponsor' is...
Erik
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: more follies, dt if uninterested
Date: 20 November 1985 at 02:10:30 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)lll-crg.ARPA
Seems that the gentleman doesn't read his fucking news before going
off at the handle. I sent him an "Excuse me, but if you look at
article ..." note.
LLL General consul? Snicker snicker. Maybe Postmaster or root or
usenet will get a nice note from him telling me what a Bad Boy I've
been... :-)
andy
-----------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 85 18:46:28 EST
From: Terry L. Ridder <tlr(a)mimsy.umd.edu>
Subject: apology is inorder
Mr. Andrew Scott Beals
I again ask that you act in a mature manner and post an
apology concerning your inferring that my private computers
are associated with the NSA.
If you choose not to, would you be kind enough to inform me
what the phone number is for LLL general consul is?
Signed
Terry L. Ridder
From: jordan(a)ucbarpa.berkeley.edu (Jordan Hayes)
Subject: Re: ridder me this ...
Date: 20 November 1985 at 02:59:22 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Methinks either the man is an idiot or he's not really a force to
be reckoned with. If his main mail machine is mimsy, that means he's
on the same imp ... since NSA people have accounts at umd, maybe he's
FROM the NSA ... hmmm ...
/jordan
From: Milo S. Medin (NASA ARC Code ED) <medin(a)orion.ARPA>
Subject: Re: message from Mr. Ridder
Date: 20 November 1985 at 03:03:55 CET
To: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Cc: fair(a)ucbarpa.berkeley.edu, Hackers_Guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
LLL general counsel? uh oh..... That means lawyers....
Milo
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: ridder me this
Date: 20 November 1985 at 03:14:56 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)lll-crg.ARPA
One of my sources tells me that Mr Ridder is indeed an NSA person. Chris
Torek told me that an "Arpanet Sponsor" in their terminology means that
he's one of the people who helped them get on the network.
andy
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Ridder me this (qualification)
Date: 20 November 1985 at 03:31:22 CET
To: bandy(a)ll-crg.ARPA, deboor%buddy(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Cc: hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Oh, I already sent him an apology. Here it is:
Relay-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site lll-crg.ARpA
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site lll-crg.ARpA
Path: lll-crg!bandy
From: bandy(a)lll-crg.ARpA (Andrew Scott Beals)
Newsgroups: net.net-people
Subject: Apology to Terry Ridder
Message-ID: <998(a)lll-crg.ARpA>
Date: 19 Nov 85 17:37:12 GMT
Date-Received: 19 Nov 85 17:37:12 GMT
References: <324(a)ucdavis.UUCP> <2253(a)umcp-cs.UUCP> <997(a)lll-crg.ARpA>
Reply-To: bandy(a)lll-crg.UUCP (Andrew Scott Beals)
Distribution: net
Organization: Computation Research Group, Lawrence Livermore Labs
Lines: 15
I would like to take this opportunity to formally extend my
apologies to Terry L. Ridder (tlr(a)mimsy.umd.edu) and his family for
insinuating that their home machines (bilbo and wiretap) and any
association with any Federal agency (the NSA in this case).
andrew scott beals
uc/llnl
--
There once was a thing called a V-2,
To pilot which you did not need to--
You just pushed a button,
And it would leave nuttin'
But stiffs and big holes and debris, too.
andy beals - bandy(a)lll-crg.arpa - {seismo,ihnp4!sun,dual}!lll-crg!bandy
---------------------
What was interesting was that the file was ~news/net/net-people/666 ...
Tee hee hee.
andy
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: calling LLL {lawyers,diplomats}
Date: 20 November 1985 at 03:38:35 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)lll-crg.ARPA
Of course, they'll tell him that "Anything that our employees say
is their own opinion unless they are a member of the LLNL Public
Information group and are speaking in an official capacity."
"Pin-heads. Pin-heads. Roly-poly pin-heads. Pin-heads. Pin-heads.
Watch them lose. Yow!"
andy
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: teehee
Date: 20 November 1985 at 17:18:25 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
From reid@glacier Wed Nov 20 06:59:01 1985
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 85 06:57:35 pst
From: Brian Reid <reid@glacier>
Subject: Re: Apology to Terry Ridder
Newsgroups: net.net-people
Organization: Stanford University, Computer Systems Lab
Terry Ridder is one of the biggest assholes on earth, and I can't fathom
anybody owing him an apology about anything. Oh well.
--
Brian Reid decwrl!glacier!reid
Stanford reid(a)SU-Glacier.ARPA
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy(a)lll-crg.ARPA>
Subject: philngai on tlr
Date: 21 November 1985 at 07:21:35 CET
To: hackers_guild(a)lll-crg.ARPA
From amdcad!phil Wed Nov 20 20:41:58 1985
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 85 20:08:04 pst
From: amdcad!phil (Phil Ngai)
Subject: Re: message from Mr. Ridder
what kind of asshole names a computer wiretap and then complains when
others make seemingly reasonable assumptions about it?
who should engage their brain, that's what i want to know.
--
Raise snails for fun and profit! Race them for amusement! Then eat the losers!
Phil Ngai +1 408 749-5720
UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil
ARPA: amdcad!phil(a)decwrl.dec.com
From: cuuxb!jab(a)lll-crg.ARPA
Subject: Re: message from Mr. Ridder
Date: 24 November 1985 at 02:25:13 CET
To: lll-crg!sdcsvax.arpa!hutch(a)lll-crg.ARPA
Cc: lll-crg!hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
The Ridder guy is a jerk. I would wonder why the ARPANET knows about his
private machines, anyhow: sounds like a misuse of government funding.
Jeff Bowles
Lisle, IL
From: Donnalyn Frey <donnalyn(a)seismo.css.gov>
Subject: Re: private machines on internet
Date: 24 November 1985 at 06:08:34 CET
To: cuuxb!jab(a)lll-crg.ARPA, deboor%buddy(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Cc: hackers_guild(a)ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Ridders machines are NOT on the arpanet. They have uucp links to
Uof Maryland. Ridder himself has an account on mimsy.umd.edu.
Ridders two machines were named by his children. ONe had
just finished reading teh Hobbit (hence bilbo, despite the
2 other known bilbos [not to be confused with certain dildos being discussed])
and the other had finished some spy book, hence wiretap.
He is quite pompous and seems to think the world revolves around
him. We asked him to rename "bilbo" to not conflict. He replied that
the other machines should change because he had already named his
machine.
By the way, we're talking about toys here (maybe somthing as expensive
as an IBM-PC) not the "real" machines you might be led to believe.
He is best ignored.
---rick
