TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

43 participants
6501 discussions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Unix was just a small hack inspired by Multics, and looking at contemporar <operating systems, I'd say there were some that were way ahead of Unix (an <still are...) yes, but as hacks go it was more public in code than other OSs of value in that time frame. I'm not saying was the best. Also I've never used multics. My experience in chronological order is OS/8, TOPS-10, CP/M-80, NS*dos<z80>, RT-11, RSTS, RSX-11, VMS, Ultrix. So those are what I have to look at when thinking in terms of 1970s OSs like Unix of the time. <Operating systems in the last twenty years have really retro-developed. :- If you mean what I think the answer is not here. If anything my view is more of when will dos/winders perform as well as some of those OSs of the time. Then again, I had VMS4.6 running decwindows and four users on a microvaxII with 9meg and 3 RD53s in 1989. Allison Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA07212 for pups-liszt; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:58:48 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

27 years, 8 months

Re: Bootstrap Idea

by A.F.R. Bain

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Warren Toomey wrote: > All, > I had an idea about bootstrapping images into PDP-11s, please shoot > it down! Ok, I don't know much about the -11 hardware, how hard would it > be to bootstrap as follows: > > hand-toggle in a small bit of code, which > sucks in a bigger bootstrap over a serial line, which > then can pull in a disk image over the serial line & write to disk Well I've started to use this approach allready and have written most of the code. My scenario is that I have an 11/34 with one RK05, and no other operating systems. I have access to almost unlimited number of PDP-11 serial cards, and other unix boxes. The PDP 11 is configured with two serial ports, one the standard serial console, the other a 9600 baud serial line. These go to the two serial ports on my PC running (which incendtally runs linux). First I send a program (binary) as console emulator instructions to the PDP on the console line. This program is basically a hacked version of /mdec/tboot.s (TU10 boot) which provides getc() and putc() and other bits and bobs. It reads in from console a number (rather than a file name) which is the length of the program to load. This is read in from the second serial port and loaded into memory. I then jump to this and start going. So the procedure is (1) Load tboot.s via console (2) load RKF to format RK-05 (this works fine) (2) load the copy program whose name escapes me at the moment, and transfer the tape image to the RK-05. (3) Boot the RK-05. This seemed to work, and progress was only interupted by the need to move the PDP-11 from Cambridge to home! I have copies of all the programs which need a little finishing off, but I could let people have copies if they are interested. Incidentally I assembled the on Supnik's emulator and then punched them out to the virtual PTP. In fact I also have a longish document which goes through the entire process with all the code (and some new comments) to try and explain how it all works. All this was done using V5 unix code btw. > > Flaws: need different bootstraps for different disks > need different bootstraps for different serial hardware > how to deal with bad blocks? > very slooow > > Other problems: 5th, 6th Edition came as RK05 images. We could probably > build images for different drives. > 7th Edition did a mkfs during installation, but I don't know if > bad blocks were ever dealt with. > > Anyway, this solution would allow a simple program + disk images to be > put on your nearby PC running Linux/whatever, so no tapes or tape drives > would be required. It is slow -- but that doesn't matter if you can go somewhere else while it happens (as long as your RK-05 doesn't catch fire) Alan Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA04307 for pups-liszt; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:07:30 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

27 years, 8 months

Re: Bootstrap Idea

by rjm＠swift.eng.ox.ac.uk

>All, > I had an idea about bootstrapping images into PDP-11s, please shoot >it down! Ok, I don't know much about the -11 hardware, how hard would it >be to bootstrap as follows: > > hand-toggle in a small bit of code, which > sucks in a bigger bootstrap over a serial line, which > then can pull in a disk image over the serial line & write to disk Well, for what it's worth here's my contribution. I have been able to set up working v5 and v6 systems on my 11/34c (which uses an RK05 drive) uisng the distributed images (thanks Warren). The key here I think is to make use of the excellent work that has been already done on the various PDP-11 emulators. The emulator I use is that of Bob Supnic, which runs wonderfully on my Linux box. v6 is available as an image of a tape. The docs helpfully say: This is a copy of the Sixth Edition distribution tape which was sent to me by Ken Wellsch. The file v6.tape.gz is the tape image, with the first 100 512-byte tape blocks containing tape bootstrap stuff. Blocks 100 - 4099 are the RK05 root image, blocks 4100 - 8099 are the /usr RK05 image, and the blocks 8100 - 12099 are the /doc RK05 image. It is trivial with the UNIX command dd to split the tape image into its constituent parts: 1) Tape bootstap (useless for me) 2) RK05 root image 3) RK05 /usr image 4) RK05 /doc image I can then start the Supnic emulator, attach the three RK05 images to drives 0, 1 and 2 and boot. My system has only a single RK05 drive. As a result I had to mess around in the emulator to create a fresh RK05 image containing a useful subset of the root and /usr images. In practice it's not too hard to get v6 onto a single RK05 pack -- I think it's only necessary to lose stuff like the spell disctionary and so on. I also wanted support for a second DL11 serial line, so I used the emulator (and some extra emulated disk space) to rebuild the kernel. Once I was happy with the disk image I'd created, it was time to transfer it to real hardware. My 11/34c runs RT11 and I was able to get hold of a small stripped down Kermit server-only program from John Wilson. I forget the name of this utility, but it's available from ftp.dbit.com. The stardard RT11 Kermit that I have is unable to transfer entire disk images, the Wilson implementation can do so. Booting the 11/34c from RX01 floppy (one RK05 drive only, remember) I ran the Kermit server. From the PC end it was straightforward to transfer the image: "PUT imagefile.img RK01:". Aside from a spectacular RK05 head crash that put my machine out of action for a while, all was well. For v7, I started with a single RL02 image. That would boot on the simulator. I added a couple of emulated RK05s to the emulator set up and proceded to build a single RK05 which would (just!) hold a bootable v7 image. I warn you that v7 on a 2.5Mb disk is tight, but it can be done. Having built the image, I rebuilt the kernel to enable RK05 support (and a second serial line, again) and disable the other disk drivers. That kernel went onto my new image. Again, the same Kermit trick enabled the image to be transferred to the 11/34a. If anyone wants these RK05 bootable image files, please let me know (rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk - not this address)! A few points though: 1) RK05s packs _can not have_ bad blocks. There is no bad block revectoring on these drives. A bad block on a pack suggests the pack is ready for the dumpster. This makes life a little easier. I'm not sure how you'd deal with bad block revectoring on an RL01/RL02 for example. I guess it's not too hard, but I shan't speculate there. 2) My 11/73, on the other hand, uses an RD53 (last time I looked). I'm not sure if the emulator can deal with these kind of drives. In any case, support for MSCP drives only came with 2BSD, which I've not played with. Maybe the same emulator tricks can be employed to get RDxx images, modulo the bad blocks problem. 3) If you don't have a PDP-11 operating system running, the Kermit approach won't be much use. There may be a stand-alone file transfer program that can write to raw devices. No idea -- perhaps someone needs to write this (both for the PDP and the PC ends). Hope this helps. Cheers, Bob -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Manners (My REAL address is: rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk) BOB'S COMPUTER MUSEUM: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 8 months

Re: Bootstrap Idea

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Hi, <Allison, you got a copy? I emailed Dan Ts'o to get a copy, but haven't hear <back from him yet. I got it off the net in one of the archive sites. I have the sources (in C) for it. <The early Unixes didn't have a concept of bad blocks. This will always <be a pain. Not true. They all did as bad blocks have been a fact of life for all computers since day one. Some of the ealy unixes used crude methods from a perfomance standoint but, the bad block replacement was there. Do read LIONS commentary. I was able to get a copy from the local library here in eastern MA (USA) along with several books on BSD design. Unix was really ahead of the pack on many things. Allison

27 years, 8 months

Re: Bootstrap Idea

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Hi, RE: booting < hand-toggle in a small bit of code, which < sucks in a bigger bootstrap over a serial line, which < then can pull in a disk image over the serial line & write to disk Depending on the hardware many of the qbus 11s have ODT, MOP(serial line), MOP(sync line), TU58, rx01/2 and tu58 boots in rom. It's handy to untilize this. I will not comment on unibus machines as I'm not experinced on those. I favor the MOP boot with a mop responder on a PC to load a loader. The key is to load small program by hand that loads a more complex loader. <Other problems: 5th, 6th Edition came as RK05 images. We could probably < build images for different drives. There lies two problems, the drivers expect RK05. The other is the images may already expect bad block to either not exist or have been remapped off the source device (meaning the BB map copies too). < 7th Edition did a mkfs during installation, but I don't know if < bad blocks were ever dealt with. There is s difference between an install and starting up a coped image that is an already installed system. <Anyway, this solution would allow a simple program + disk images to be <put on your nearby PC running Linux/whatever, so no tapes or tape drives <would be required. There is already a program out there that emulates the serial interfaced TU58 and while limited by the serial line speed the emulation seeks faster than tape as it used ram or file space on disk. <I've used this method on another hardware platform to move disk images <in/out. It is slow, but it works. Same here for non-pdp systems. Allison

27 years, 8 months

Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From djenner(a)halcyon.com Thu Sep 11 16:01:12 1997 <It will be great to have everything on a CD-ROM, but that probably won't <help a majority of users bootstrap up a system, since most won't have a <CD-ROM or maybe even no operating system to start with. We are going to <have to find someone(s) who is (are) willing to make up a standard <distribution tape (9-track or otherwise) or floppies (is that <possible?). This could really be the biggest hurdle to getting a system <running on many machines. The sysboot certainly can be floppy and the system can be broken down to multiple floppy volumes for installation. I may also be possible to use a vax to read the CDrom and cut a tape(9track or tk50) from that as well. This of course is predicated on the cdrom. The V6 and V7 binaries however already exist and are available, getting one of them onto a 11/73 and written out as non-image files would help greatly. Allison Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10563 for pups-liszt; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:13:48 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri Sep 12 09:13:31 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10558 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:13:43 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA08771; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:13:31 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199709112313.JAA08771(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Old PDP-11 UNIX Paper Docs? To: pnt103(a)ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:13:31 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <swordfish.873966148(a)ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk> from "pnt103(a)ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk" at "Sep 11, 97 09:21:25 am" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by pnt103(a)ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk: > Warren wrote: > > I've got some AUUG newsletters ... One of them mentions > > a `Heriot-Watt stripped down 7th Edition', > > If this is the version I have, which not only came from HWU, but is > running on one of their old machines, it's fairly standard. It was > build for a 'small machine', meaning one without separate I&D space, > such as an 11/34 (mine's on an 11/23 with 128KW and RL02s). There > are some extra drivers to support RX02s and stuff, but I think these > are just well-known additions from sources such as Boston. There's a > makefile to configure and build for a small machine. > > It's missing some of the larger pieces of software, such as troff (nroff > is there, and the troff source AFAIR) and Fortran, and the tty driver is > modified (bigger!), but most other things seem to be 'normal'. > > I have the source on 800bpi magtape (pity my drive is only 1600bpi) and > also most of it on RL02, though the RL02s are a bit disorganised. > > Pete Anybody in the UK able to read Pete's tape? Pete, can you kermit the files off those RL02s? Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10611 for pups-liszt; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:31:15 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri Sep 12 09:31:22 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10606 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:31:12 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA09209 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:31:22 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199709112331.JAA09209(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Bootstrap Idea To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:31:22 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk All, I had an idea about bootstrapping images into PDP-11s, please shoot it down! Ok, I don't know much about the -11 hardware, how hard would it be to bootstrap as follows: hand-toggle in a small bit of code, which sucks in a bigger bootstrap over a serial line, which then can pull in a disk image over the serial line & write to disk Flaws: need different bootstraps for different disks need different bootstraps for different serial hardware how to deal with bad blocks? very slooow Other problems: 5th, 6th Edition came as RK05 images. We could probably build images for different drives. 7th Edition did a mkfs during installation, but I don't know if bad blocks were ever dealt with. Anyway, this solution would allow a simple program + disk images to be put on your nearby PC running Linux/whatever, so no tapes or tape drives would be required. I've used this method on another hardware platform to move disk images in/out. It is slow, but it works. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA00163 for pups-liszt; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:39:17 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

27 years, 8 months

Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Warren, <assuming I [ have RT-11/ RSX / no operating system ] on the PDP-11 already This is the tough part as PDP-11s run a wide variety of OSs. If you have RT-11 (most common) you likely ok. But even then it can influence you choice of devices. IE: RTv4 knows nothing of TK50 and RQDXn controllers and v5.1 does. This is true for RSTS and RSX too. The other is how to get it onto the required media. CDrom is largely PC hardware. If the disk is readable using dos/linux it's fairly easy, though the right supplied utility can help if not. PCs with the right hardware and software can create RX50 and RX33 media, TU58 has been done, RX01 with more effort. SCSI disk are not common on PDP-11s so that is a low yeild path though they also can be done. The PDP-11 world peripheral wise divides across what bus you have Q or U and that influences what peripherals you likely to have. The how of taking one of those binaries and moving to the PDP-11 has eluded me for a while. I have been told it is not possible as they are image files and if you copy an image of an RL02 to an RL02 you better have then same or fewer bad blocks as the image may land on one making it useless. I have been going through some of these gyrations with netBSD for the VAX and they have set of problem that would be common to PDP-11. Check out their FAQs on this for hints and solutions. Allison Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA09350 for pups-liszt; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:09:25 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Fri Sep 12 02:01:12 1997 Received: from mail1.halcyon.com (mail1.halcyon.com [206.63.63.40]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09345 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:09:19 +1000 (EST) Received: from halcyon.com (blv-lx102-ip30.nwnexus.net [206.63.41.30]) by mail1.halcyon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24800; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <341815C8.39585882(a)halcyon.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:01:12 -0700 From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Reply-To: djenner(a)halcyon.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au> CC: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media References: <199709110449.OAA17004(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Warren, I think you are exactly correct when you say these are the first two eminent, and imminent questions about PDP-11 Unix. They have frequently occurred to me as I drool in anticipation over the possibility of running 2.11BSD on an 11/73! Maybe you or a 2.11BSD expert (Steve Schultz?) could find the "release notes" for 2.11BSD and post them, if that's legal now. That would answer a lot of questions about how to configure a machine or whether a particular machine could handle it. Maybe the release notes from two or three different versions could cover a great majority of potential users; your survey might answer that. It will be great to have everything on a CD-ROM, but that probably won't help a majority of users bootstrap up a system, since most won't have a CD-ROM or maybe even no operating system to start with. We are going to have to find someone(s) who is (are) willing to make up a standard distribution tape (9-track or otherwise) or floppies (is that possible?). This could really be the biggest hurdle to getting a system running on many machines. Dave Warren Toomey wrote: > > In article by Allison J Parent: > > > > <See the petition hyperlinked on http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ > > > > I've done the petition. > > > > <Hopefully (soon) you will be able to buy one from SCO for about US$100. > > <You can get the binaries for v6 and v7, see Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator > > <on the same web page. > > > > I also know of the binaries for v6 and v7 at several sites for emulator use. > > > > What is unclear is how to get those binaries onto a real PDP-11 such as my > > 11/73 and if the devices I have are even supported. > > Sorry for the misunderstanding Allison! > > Actually, that's a very good question. As I'm not a hardware person, I'll > pass this over to the other PUPS mailing list members. If/when SCO start > selling licenses & we make CD-ROMs or FTP sites available, this question > is going to come up an awful lot: > > Question 1 > ---------- > > How do I get a Unix distribution onto: > > - a tape, because I have a tape drive > > - a disk drive, as I don't have a tape drive > > assuming I [ have RT-11/ RSX / no operating system ] on the PDP-11 already. > > Question 2 > ---------- > > I have [ this particular CPU and this list of other peripherals ]. > What version(s) of Unix can I run on this PDP-11? > > Can anybody help out with answers to Question 1? Bits & pieces of Question 2 > are answered on the PUPS web pages, but they need expanding. > > Thanks in advance for any information, and any programs (boot code etc) > that I can add in to the PUPS archive!! > > Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09835 for pups-liszt; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 04:43:59 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

27 years, 8 months

Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media

by m＠mbsks.franken.de

Mahlzeit According to Warren Toomey: > Question 1 > ---------- > > How do I get a Unix distribution onto: > > - a tape, because I have a tape drive > > - a disk drive, as I don't have a tape drive > > assuming I [ have RT-11/ RSX / no operating system ] on the PDP-11 already. For my 11/34A with 2 RL01 I made with an emulator a bootable V7-RL01-diskimage. I downloaded it under RT-11 with KSERVE from John Wilson (dunno where I ftped it) over a serial line onto the second disk. It took some hours, but it worked. Mahlzeit endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA06433 for pups-liszt; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:26:28 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

27 years, 8 months

Old PDP-11 UNIX Paper Docs?

by Warren Toomey

All, While I'm thinking of it, does anybody have any old Usenix, EUUG, AUUG etc. newsletters, papers, conference proceedings? Some of these have details about fitting various UNIX flavours onto various PDP-11s, plus other useful information. Anyone care to scan stuff in? I've got some AUUG newsletters dating from 1980 onwards. One of them mentions a `Heriot-Watt stripped down 7th Edition', which looks like it comes from Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh, UK. Does anybody have any knowledge of this version of 7th Edition? Warren

27 years, 8 months

Re: UNIX for PDP-11

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<See the petition hyperlinked on http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ I've done the petition. <Hopefully (soon) you will be able to buy one from SCO for about US$100. <You can get the binaries for v6 and v7, see Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator <on the same web page. I also know of the binaries for v6 and v7 at several sites for emulator use. What is unclear is how to get those binaries onto a real PDP-11 such as my 11/73 and if the devices I have are even supported. Allison Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03092 for pups-liszt; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:49:56 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Sep 11 14:49:53 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03087 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:49:52 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA17004; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:49:53 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199709110449.OAA17004(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media To: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:49:53 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: <199709110441.AA09464(a)world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Sep 11, 97 00:41:08 am" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Allison J Parent: > > <See the petition hyperlinked on http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ > > I've done the petition. > > <Hopefully (soon) you will be able to buy one from SCO for about US$100. > <You can get the binaries for v6 and v7, see Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator > <on the same web page. > > I also know of the binaries for v6 and v7 at several sites for emulator use. > > What is unclear is how to get those binaries onto a real PDP-11 such as my > 11/73 and if the devices I have are even supported. Sorry for the misunderstanding Allison! Actually, that's a very good question. As I'm not a hardware person, I'll pass this over to the other PUPS mailing list members. If/when SCO start selling licenses & we make CD-ROMs or FTP sites available, this question is going to come up an awful lot: Question 1 ---------- How do I get a Unix distribution onto: - a tape, because I have a tape drive - a disk drive, as I don't have a tape drive assuming I [ have RT-11/ RSX / no operating system ] on the PDP-11 already. Question 2 ---------- I have [ this particular CPU and this list of other peripherals ]. What version(s) of Unix can I run on this PDP-11? Can anybody help out with answers to Question 1? Bits & pieces of Question 2 are answered on the PUPS web pages, but they need expanding. Thanks in advance for any information, and any programs (boot code etc) that I can add in to the PUPS archive!! Warren

27 years, 8 months

UNIX for PDP-11

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Hello, Curiousity, How does one get a license for a PDP-11 version of unix these days? I've had an 11/73 I've been itching to run unix on. Allison Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03054 for pups-liszt; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:41:19 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

27 years, 8 months

Re: SysIII UNIX for PDP-11

by Warren Toomey

[Robert has got a copy of System II for PDP-11 on tapes] > If I had a way to copy the tapes, I would have no problem and i'm not > even sure what is exactly on the tapes or if they are still good as I've > never really used them as the Unix III was already loaded on disks when I > got them PDP-11/34 from Bell Labs. > > (The sytem was used here in Bell Labs here in Indianapolis, IN to help > develope the first speech recognition system and I still have most of > the software "somehwere" on RL01/02 packs, so I'm kinda attached to the > tapes.) > > And, I have a gentleman here that is going to come pick up all my PDP > stuff in the next month or so for a computer museum he is putting together. > > So, if you can copy the tapes, I might be talked in to releasing the > tapes to you for copying for a good cause. Robert, I forgot to cc my reply to the others on the PUPS mailing list. Would anybody in the US be able to look at Robert's tapes to see if we can recover System III? John Holden just donated System V to the PUPS archive, so System III would also be a good addition. Please email to Robert & the mailing list if you are willing to look at the tapes. Thanks in advance, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02864 for pups-liszt; Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:14:17 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f

27 years, 8 months

Searchable PUPS Mail Archive

by Warren Toomey

I've set up a searchable archive of the mail from the PDP-11 Unix mailing list, at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/cgi-bin/pups.cgi Let me know of any problems with it. Updates to the archive will be done manually until I iron out some script bugs! Warren

27 years, 8 months

Re: PDP-11 Unix CD-ROM archive burn

by pnt103＠ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk

Warren wrote: : If you don't have RK05 or RL02s, someone should be able to build : a suitable disk image for you. I think you'll need to go 6th Edition : as you have a /23. 7th Edition runs fine on an 11/23 or 11/34, providing you build the 'small machine' version. I've had 7th on my 11/23 with 256K and 2xRL02 for years. Pete >From Kevin Wright <Kevin.Wright(a)VITREX.com> Tue Sep 2 11:25:46 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20651 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:51:29 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06214 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:51:59 +1000 (EST) Received: from ntmain.vitrex.com (nt-main.vitrex.com [206.81.142.97]) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA06092 for <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:36:01 +1000 (EST) Received: by nt-main.vitrex.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <Q678J82F>; Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:25:49 -0600 Message-ID: <B0620B9317B0D0119D3C0060976CE96418BB(a)nt-main.vitrex.com> From: Kevin Wright <Kevin.Wright(a)VITREX.com> To: "'wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au'" <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: PDP-11 hardware liquidation Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 19:25:46 -0600 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au 1-SEP-97 As owner of a PDP-11/23+ system, I know how difficult it can be to find hardware for older PDP-11's. I'd like to inform you that I've found a terrific source in Utah for used DEC hardware including PDP-11 related items. This person has a 2400 sq ft warehouse (about 3 semi truck loads) quite literally brimming with computer hardware which has been collected and stored over the past 10 years. He is currently in the process of liquidating it at very, very low prices. Tons of miscellaneous computer equipment is available, much of which was manufactured by DEC. It would be impossible to list even a fraction of what he has available, but he has told me that his inventory includes approximately 1000 Q-Bus and Unibus boards, plus peripheral devices such as disk and tape drives. I've not been to the warehouse in person yet , but I will be visiting the site in about 2 weeks time from now. If interested, you should be aware that he is in the process of getting rid of EVERYTHING! It sounds like it will all be gone in the next 3 to 4 weeks. Opportunities like this very seldom come along, so please contact me via email if you are interested in finding out more. I'll be happy to forward to you, any needed information that I can. Please feel free to forward this notice to anyone you think might be interested. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24452 for pups-liszt; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:22:33 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Sep 3 16:23:06 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24447 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:22:29 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA07853; Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:23:06 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199709030623.QAA07853(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: PUPS Mailing List - Now Majordomo To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 16:23:06 +1000 (EST) Cc: wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk All, I've just moved the PUPS (old PDP-11 Unix) mailing list over to run under MajorDomo. I'm still learning MajorDomo, so there might be some teething troubles. The new list is called: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Can you update any aliases that point to this list. I will keep the original /etc/aliases mailing list oldunix(a)cs.adfa.oz.au around for a while until I'm sure the new one works fine. As with MajorDomo, you can send messages to get off the mailing list. Please let me know of any problems. Updates: SCO Petition, CD-R writers etc. ---------------------------------------- Ok, we're still chatting with SCO. I got a summary of internal mail which shows that there are 2 sides in SCO, those who think it's a good idea (PR-wise at least) and those who can't see the point & who think it's a can of worms. I feel that the people on our side are winning. I've been trying to explain the history of some of the UNIX flavours to their legal eagle, who must know recent history only. I think we can iron things out. Several people from Europe & the US said that they had access to a CD-R writer, & could write CDs, if that became the distribution method for passing on the PUPS archive. I will probably go buy a new X-Gig disk to give the archive a proper FTP home. I've come up with a new archive layout & will pass it on to you all for comments. Anyway, it looks like progress is being made & we should be able to buy personal UNIX licenses soon :-). More updates to the list as things happen. Thanks for your suport!! Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au

27 years, 8 months

Re: PUPS

by Warren Toomey

In article by Mark D. Roth: > Warren, > > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and > know next to nothing about. I'm looking for any info I might be able > to find on how to get this machine running, as well as any info I > might find about getting a Unix implementation for it. I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up, but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management (nor the memory) to get Unix running. > I saw reference to a mailing list on the webpage, but no information > on how to join. What can you tell me? Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight with regards to 11/03's. Cheers, Warren >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Aug 11 13:53:16 1997 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16892 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:53:33 +1000 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA21891; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:53:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <199708110353.UAA21891(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: roth(a)uiuc.edu, wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: PUPS Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Warren, Mark - > In article by Mark D. Roth: > > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and > > know next to nothing about. I'm looking for any info I might be able > > I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the Quite correct. > paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up, > but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management > (nor the memory) to get Unix running. Warren - you're absolutely right. The 11/03 has a maximum memory (most were not fully populated) of 56kbytes and _no_ memory management. Any Unix (since the initial one on the PDP-7) requires at least two memory management states: kernel and user. Much later versions can take advantage of the 3rd mode (supervisor). Smallest machine I ever ran Unix on was an 11/23 (the development was done on a 11/70 because various programs were too large to run on a non split I/D machine such as the 11/23) and it was, shall we say, "interesting". Just enough memory (max of 248kb) to run one or two user processes at a time (we had a rather large kernel and some homebrew communications drivers) - you could get logged in and then each time you typed a command the shell would get swapped out to run your command ;). > Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone > with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight > with regards to 11/03's. You got it right - nothing to set straight. Steven Schultz >From George Coulouris <George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Fri Aug 22 01:49:53 1997 Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15526 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 01:51:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from dialup-port4.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.234]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.5/S-4.0) with ESMTP; id QAA14257; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:50:53 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: george(a)mailhost.dcs.qmw.ac.uk Message-Id: <l0311070db0221139bb07(a)[138.37.88.234]> In-Reply-To: <9708070839.AA04553(a)descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> References: <199708062322.JAA03135(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:53 +0100 To: Michael Engel <engel(a)numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> From: George Coulouris <George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Subject: Re: George's PDP Tape in UK Cc: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk>, wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey), oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Dear Michael, Many thanks for your offer. Sorry for the delay in replying. If you are still willing I would like to take up your offer. If you will mail me your physical mail address, I'll send you the tape. As far as I can remember the tape is a UNIX tar archive, that should be readable on the VMS machine and you could give the files back to me by ftp. (I'm taking up your offer rather than Tim Bradshaw's because you seem to have had more recent success with reading old tapes. Thanks again, George At 9:39 am +0100 7/8/97, Michael Engel wrote: * > * We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send * me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a * 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ... * At 3:22 pm +0100 7/8/97, Tim Bradshaw wrote: * * We have old-tape-reading-technology, so we could give it a try. No * promises at all though (I have to turn the drive back on &c, and it's * not altogether clear that it will work, though it did last time I * tried it), asnd it will take me ages to get around to it, being very * inefficient... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ George F. Coulouris | Computer Science Dept Professor of Computer Systems | QMW, University of London WWW: http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~george | Mile End Road Phone: +44 171 975 5201 (direct line) | London E1 4NS Fax: +44 181 980 6533 | United Kingdom Home phone: +44 171 485 5896 | pager: 01426 183113 | >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Aug 27 10:45:58 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01510 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:29 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA03801 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708270045.KAA03801(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, Here is the latest email from SCO with regards to PDP-11 UNIX source licenses. I'll add one comment at the bottom. Please treat this as YOUR EYES ONLY. I haven't got permission from Dion to forward this on (yet), but I think that more pairs of eyes than just mine need to have a look at it for any problems. ----- Forwarded message from Dion ----- From: Dion <dionj(a)sco.COM> X-Mailer: SCO OpenServer Mail Release 5.0 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Touching Base! Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 12:45:07 PDT Warren, Good progress. We have some positive consensus developing. Here is the proposed license terms (roughly, not fully legalized yet). Please let me know if you see any problems with this proposal: Here are the terms that I think make sense: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- License terms: * the license covers the entire distributions (source code, binaries and documentation) of the following versions of UNIX: o 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX o 32V UNIX o PWB/UNIX o those portions of all 2BSD releases which are derived from UNIX source code * licensees have these rights wrt the binaries and source code of the above versions of UNIX: use store reproduce edit adapt enchance improve otherwise modify transmit electronically repackage * These rights are licensed to noncommercial users. The source may not be sold nor used to develop commercial versions of UNIX. * licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software * licensees have the right to allow noncommercial use the UNIX binaries on systems for which the product is licensed. (Note that the latter is already permitted, given SCO's binary license agreement for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX. We would also be happy with the following conditions imposed in the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes) * license is not transferable. * source code covered by the license cannot be distributed or disclosed to people not covered by the license. The licensees are permitted to collaborate on modifications and mutually share their modifications. * SCO is not required to provide copies of any source code, binaries or documentation with the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes License Fee: SCO charges a one-time license fee of $100 per licensee, for a site license for one organization. We may, at some future time, provide source distributions (if/when we can find the sources), but this is not committed. We know that the licensees have, between them, most of the needed sources. ----- End of forwarded message from Dion ----- My comment. The only thing I want to change is: * licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software becomes * licensees have the right to install UNIX software on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software This allows us to install source so as to modify it or to rebuild kernels etc. I briefly raised the issue of source distribution (SCO or me? FTP or CD-ROM?), but I suggested that we leave it until the licenses go on sale. Please email your comments on this to the mailing list (oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) Thanks, Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Aug 27 15:51:20 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02507 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:52:56 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA00316; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:21 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708270551.PAA00316(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:20 +1000 (EST) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <199708270539.WAA16297(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Aug 26, 97 10:39:11 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article by Steven M. Schultz: > It looks to me that SCO has granted "us" every single thing we were > asking for. I've thought of a few more changes: In the wording from SCO, the status of `documentation' is unclear. The following should clear this up: + use the term software == `source, binaries and documentation' in many places where this is appropriate. + use the term `source' only where they want to restrict to licensees. + also, don't disclose `source' to people not covered by the SCO license or by existing UNIX software licenses from Western Electric and AT&T. Comments anybody? Warren >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri Aug 29 11:43:09 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08783 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:44:23 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03340; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708290143.LAA03340(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO To: mcjones(a)pa.dec.com Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <9708281506.AA29078(a)numbat05-an2.pa.dec.com> from "mcjones(a)pa.dec.com" at "Aug 28, 97 08:06:23 am" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article by mcjones(a)pa.dec.com: > > > Maybe someone else can volunteer, if I organise the contents :-) > > There's one here at my workplace. I don't know how to use it myself. > I could probably get some help in burning one or two, but I don't > think it would be appropriate to burn dozens or hundreds. How many > licensees do you anticipate? There's 300 signatures on the petition. I'd hope that 1/2 of those will buy licenses, and probably most would like the stuff in easy-to-use form. I know that Steven Schultz has access to a writer too (hint hint!). I will probably buy another hard disk here for the PDP archive, and give access to license holders. I'd like to get users to suggest layout changes & what should be exploded etc. so that we can burn a 650M CD image directly from the archive. Currently, the archive is sitting at 250M, so there's room to explode many of the distributions stored there. We also need to sit down and catalogue this stuff so that it's not just a collection of random tapes. I'm slowly doing this & have done the most important stuff, see the Tapes/DETAILS file if you ftp in. But more work needs to be done. So hopefully, we can pass the archive (as a Rock Ridge image) to a few volunteers to burn CD-R copies. Anybody in Europe who would volunteer? Just an idea! Warren >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sun Aug 31 12:41:29 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA15039 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:42:48 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04803; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708310241.MAA04803(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix CD-ROM archive burn To: Kevin.Wright(a)VITREX.com (Kevin Wright) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <B0620B9317B0D0119D3C0060976CE96418B8(a)nt-main.vitrex.com> from Kevin Wright at "Aug 29, 97 09:24:27 am" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article by Kevin Wright: > I could very possibly volunteer to do one. I have access to my > companies cdrom burner. > > Subject change: > I own a PDP-11/23+ for which I'm constantly searching the Internet for > RT-11 and TSX+ documentation and software, as well as any other OS's > such as Unix. Do you have any such software/documentation in your > archive of which you would be willing to allow me a copy? Kevin, until you can buy a license from SCO (soon I hope), all I can offer are the binaries for 6th & 7th Edition. If you have an RK05 or RL02, then you can get disk images as part of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator, at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11-sims/Supnik_2.3 (or a similar URL, I'm typing from memory). If you don't have RK05 or RL02s, someone should be able to build a suitable disk image for you. I think you'll need to go 6th Edition as you have a /23. Warren

27 years, 9 months

Re: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas

by m＠mbsks.franken.de

Mahlzeit According to Warren Toomey: > If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to > set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access > the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive > shouldn't divulge its contents easily. Isn't ftp for a $200-programm secure enough? I'm doing beta testing for a programm, which costs $1100 and they distribute the passwords for ftp by unencrypted mail. They do that allready for a few releases and I don't think they had any problems with that. > Keep the archive files encrypted: > > - This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the > plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very > large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the > archive machine. I don't think you need a very large key. Everyone, which has the choice to crack a 512bit key or to pay $200, would choose to pay. > I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing > access to this old UNIX software! I think pgp is to difficult to use for some. You could use a simple encryption programm like: ftp://isidor.ethz.ch/pub/simpl/safer.V1.1.tar.Z which should be very portable. The passphrase could be distributed on the license. Mahlzeit endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Aug 7 09:22:07 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03636 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:22:04 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA03135; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:22:08 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708062322.JAA03135(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:22:07 +1000 (EST) Cc: George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear PDP-11 UNIXers, Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read: * In article by George Coulouris: * > Warren, * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to * > have a go at reading the tape. * > George * [and later...] * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George?? No, I'm afraid not. I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your people. George ------- Can anybody in the UK or Europe who would be happy to read this old tape for George & for the PUPS archive please email him! His address is George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk Many thanks in advance, Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au >From Michael Engel <engel(a)numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> Thu Aug 7 18:39:42 1997 Received: from bernoulli.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de (mathe2e.numerik.math.Uni-Siegen.DE [141.99.158.230]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10664 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:44:13 +1000 (EST) Received: from descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de (descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de [141.99.112.4]) by bernoulli.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de (Mailhost) with SMTP id KAA11395; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:41:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Michael Engel <engel(a)numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> Message-Id: <9708070839.AA04553(a)descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> Received: by descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de id AA04553; Thu, 7 Aug 97 10:39:43 +0200 Subject: Re: George's PDP Tape in UK To: wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:39:42 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <199708062322.JAA03135(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Hi, it seems my mail didn`t come through last time ... > Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an > old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read: > > * In article by George Coulouris: > * > Warren, > * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to > * > have a go at reading the tape. > * > George > > [and later...] > > * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George?? > > No, I'm afraid not. > > I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in > London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your > people. > We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ... regards, Michael Engel (engel(a)unix-ag.uni-siegen.de)

27 years, 9 months

PDP-11/73 UNIX

by rjm＠swift.eng.ox.ac.uk

I have a micro11/73 with RX50 and RD53 drives. Is there a BSD variant which I can run on the thing? Regards, Bob -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Manners (My REAL address is: rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk) BOB'S COMPUTER MUSEUM: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri Aug 1 13:19:52 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21972 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:18:50 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA10575 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:19:52 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708010319.NAA10575(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:19:52 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear PDP-11 & old Unix enthusiasts, Status report of our petition to SCO about UNIX src licenses. I received this from Dion Johnson last week: Warren, Thanks for your latest news. That's great about the signatures. Yes, I perused the earlier list and it's really amazing that we have such famous support for this. I am sure it will be a great PR victory when we finally get this arranged. Our exec VP (Doug Michels) is on your side. I am annoying our legal folks, bless their hearts. :-) They have a job to do also and I want to be sure we are protecting SCO's interests in the code in the right ways. I expect an answer in a week or so. I suspect there will be further internal iterations here as we craft a license that works for all parties. So the right answer to publish is: "SCO is pleased to entertain this request from so many loyal and famous fans of UNIX. We are looking into how we can provide this source code. No promises at this time, since there are some intellectual property issues that must be resolved, but we will do what we can." I'll email when I hear more. It occurred to me that if SCO agree to src licenses and people buy them, then they will of course want the software. I already make the stuff available to several people, on the trust that they have existing src licenses (e.g show me the first 100 lines of v7 nami.c etc.) At the moment, it's all sitting as .tar.gz files on my desktop box. If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive shouldn't divulge its contents easily. I'm after comments from you guys, the end users of the archive, as to what sounds good, ok, bad, annoying and/or plain stupid to you. Proposal -------- Make the archive available via FTP: - To prevent capture of ftp passwords, I suggest that each license owner has an ftp account, and authentication is done using S/Key. To distribute the S/Key key phrase or a number of S/Key pass phrases to the license owners, I suggest using PGP email. Keep the archive files encrypted: - This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the archive machine. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion A: - Transmit the PGP encrypted files `as is' to the license owner via ftp. Shortcoming: every license owner has the same private key required to decrypt the files. A hacker only needs to find one vulnerable license owner to get the key. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion B: - On-the-fly PGP encrypt the files using a key specific to the license owner. Shortcoming: end user must have a personal key plus the common key, and must decrypt everything twice. Transmission to license owner - Suggestion C: - On-the-fly decrypt the archive file, and on-the-fly re-encrypt it using a key specific to the license owner. End user only needs one personal PGP key to decrypt the file. Shortcoming: the key required to decrypt the file back to plaintext must exist on the archive server. Hackers who break-in can thus get plaintext. I think I prefer Suggestion A. For all 3 suggestions above, PGP private keys will be sent to license holders using PGP email. Anyway, this is an off the cuff set of ideas. I certainly want to keep my butt from being sued off by SCO :-), and so I need to authenticate users, keep audit trails of downloads and logins, and take reasonable steps to prevent non-legitimate users from accessing the licensed material. I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing access to this old UNIX software! Thanks in advance, Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri Aug 1 14:02:29 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22018 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:01:27 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10623 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:02:29 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708010402.OAA10623(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: ideas re UNIX licensed distribution To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:02:29 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199708010345.UAA27393(a)generic.yamato.com> from "Robert J. Kelley" at "Jul 31, 97 08:45:03 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article by Robert J. Kelley: > > Why not just use SSH: verified licensees could submit keys and > the archive server would keep them on file. scp could be used > to retrieve the files. I'd still have to encrypt the archive files that are resident on disk. Also, ssh is more of a `general' login account. scp would allow someone to retrieve /etc/password :-) If I could restrict scp access, that'd be an ok alternative. Warren >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri Aug 1 14:33:26 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22403 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:32:24 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA10684 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:33:26 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708010433.OAA10684(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:33:26 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199708010412.VAA15987(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jul 31, 97 09:12:05 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article by Steven M. Schultz: > > Make the archive available via FTP: > > Convenient but the management of "accounts" and S/Key or PGP keys > could be a real logistic nightmare. > > Have you considered putting the archive on CDrom and shipping that > upon receipt of a copy of the license? Naturally there would be > a modest fee for the media and shipping. > > Probably would want a "mirror" shipping office in the US. > > The reason I asked the "what will most folks want" question earlier > was that perhaps folks only want a handful or a couple pieces. CDrom > writing is extremely simple (I think FreeBSD makes it harder or more > complex than other systems though) - perhaps folks could, with the > request for a CD specify which parts they want and a "custom" CD > could be created. > > This approach does have its own set of problems but it does do away > with network snooping, outages and breakins. The archive could be > offline or encrypted with a key known only to you - if you needed to > make something available you could decrypt a copy and make it available > for a small timewindow. > > I know I'm planning on creating a few CDs to safeguard the stuff I've > obtained so far - good (and cheap) protection against disk crashes > and unreadable backup tapes. > > A variation on this scheme would be to master a CD with everything > on it and let SCO send the CD out along with the license when > payment is received. Hmmmm - I kinda like this the more I think > about it. Might even get some nice artwork (the BSD 'imp'?) on > the cover. I'm sure SCO gets a real good rate at the CD pressing > plant so the media cost would be lower than an individual doing it > on a CDwriter. > Perhaps the online/FTP archive could be a backup or secondary > means of distribution - if someone convinces you (or sends a copy > of the license) they have the license but lost the media, etc you > could set up a PGP encrypted account for them. > Cheers. > Steven Yes, I'd thought about cutting a CD directly from the current archive, and certainly having someone (SCO, me?) distribute files on CD would make the administration a lot easier. I guess license holders could buy `upgrade CDs' if the archive changes. If SCO come to the src license party, I certainly will ask them about pressing CDs and distributing them as part of the license sale. Thanks for the input Steven! Warren

27 years, 10 months

Re: 7th Edition on a real PDP-11/23+ (fwd)

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

In atricle by Neil Johnson: > Unfortunately I cannot justify calling sources for man pages "object code". > Redistributing the man pages may be in the spirit of SCO's agreement, but > is not allowed in the agreement. I do not think they should be added to the > distribution without SCO's permission. > > Finally a disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, this is just my understanding of > the licence, for which I give SCO my thanks. > Neil THat was my impression too, Neil. I was being hopeful (as always). We do need to talk with SCO (via Bob Supnik?) to ensure we have SCO's permission first. Thanks! Warren >From Michael Engel <engel(a)unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> Thu Jan 23 10:49:20 1997 Received: from si-nic.hrz.uni-siegen.de (root(a)si-nic.hrz.uni-siegen.de [141.99.128.16]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with SMTP id LAA07808; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:49:53 +1059 Received: from vespa.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> by si-nic.hrz.uni-siegen.de with SMTP (5.67b/UniSiegen 1.1) id AA01756; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:49:52 +0100 Received: (from engel@localhost) by vespa.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de (Mailhost) id BAA21049; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:49:21 +0100 (MET) From: Michael Engel <engel(a)unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> Message-Id: <199701230049.BAA21049(a)vespa.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> Subject: Re: 7th Edition on a real PDP-11/23+ (fwd) To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:49:20 +0100 (MET) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: <9701222201.AA22095@dolphin> from "Warren Toomey" at Jan 23, 97 09:01:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text > > Warren, > > > > I'm not sure if the PUPS members would be interested, but I have > > successfully been able to run the 7th Edition RL02 image that accompanies > > Bob Supniks emulator on a real PDP-11/23+.Jim Carpenter (jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net) > > deserves a special thanks for helping me work out a few problems in bringing > > it up. If any other members of the group are interested in doing the same I > > would be happy to help. > > Bob, I'm cc'ing this reply to the mailing list so that the others will > get a copy. Great ! Finally gotta dig out that old RL02 drive ... How did you manage to get the image onto the RL02 ? > Secondly, I'm unsure of the copyright/legal status of the man pages. > It would be good if they could be released publically. I might ask Bob > Supnik if he has any ideas. Some time ago, the 7th Edition man pages were available on http://plan9.att.com. This machine currently seems to be down, so I can't verify if the man pages are still there. regards, Michael Engel (engel(a)unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) >From "Bob Armstrong" <bob(a)poco-adagio.santa-clara.ca.us> Thu Jan 23 15:20:45 1997 Received: from wetware.wetware.com (root(a)wetware.wetware.com [207.20.11.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with SMTP id QAA08114; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:37:05 +1100 Received: from poco-adagio by wetware.wetware.com via rmail with uucp id <m0vnHqJ-000NO4C(a)wetware.wetware.com> for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:36:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-14) Received: by poco-adagio.santa-clara.ca.us (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Wed, 22 Jan 97 21:20:45 PST Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 21:20:45 PST Message-Id: <009AEC32982F5600.00000130(a)poco-adagio.santa-clara.ca.us> From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob(a)poco-adagio.santa-clara.ca.us> Subject: RE: 7th Edition on a real PDP-11/23+ To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au X-VMS-Mail-To: uucp%"oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au" >Bob, firstly if you can write down the details of how you got the >image installed & running on the 23+, and email it to the mailing list >(oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) that'd be great, as I archive the mail. It was actually quite simple. Bob Supnik's RL02 file is simply a byte for byte dump of a pack. That is, it's just sector 0, head 0, cylinder 0 followed by sector 1, head 0, cylinder 0, ... then all the sectors of head 1, cylinder 0, then cylinder 1, etc. There are no overhead bytes in the file an no interleaving is used. RL02s have 40 sectors of 256 bytes each per track, two heads, and 512 cylinders for a total 10240K bytes per disk (which happens to be exactly the size of Bob's RL02 file :-) You want to be careful about bad sectors, since RL02s do bad block replacement at the device driver level. If your pack has any bad sectors that aren't at exactly the same spot as bad sectors on Bob's original pack (not very likely!), then this isn't going to work. Fortunately error free RL02 packs are relatively easy to come by. Anyway, since the only other RL02 that I have access to is on a VMS system, I had to write a little program for VMS to load the disk using physical I/O. I'd be happy to make this program available if anyone wants it. Once you have the pack loaded, you can just mount it on a 11/23 and use the RL02 hardware boostrap. The Unix boot will start and print a "@" for a prompt. Reply by entering "unix" and carriage return, and you'll see "mem=205376" followed by "SINGLE USER LOGIN:". Enter ^Z and Unix will start timesharing, then you can login in using root with the password "pdp". I had two problems in this process. First, I didn't know about the Unix bootstrap program (I'm afraid I've never used Bob's emulator!), and when I saw the "@" I just blindly assumed I'd been dumped back into ODT. Fortunately Jim Carpenter was kind enough to educate me about this. Second, Unix would hang up as soon as I started timesharing. This turned out to be because my LTC in the 11/23 wasn't working, which doesn't bother RT11 at all but it does hang Unix. After I repaired the hardware everything ran fine. If someone has a PDP-11 with a RL02 drive and no way to load V7 on a pack, I am willing to do it if you send me a blank RL02. I believe the SCO license allows this so long as: 1) I don't charge for the service 2) You certify that it is for non-commerical use 3) I include a printed copy of SCO's license Note that this kernel supports only RL02 drives, so unless your -11 has a RL02 drive this system won't work. RD5x and RA8x drives won't do. A similar procedure would probably work with the RK05 images, but I don't have the hardware to try. >Finally, many of the members of the PUPS mail list are covered by >source code licenses, so if you can tell us what device you require, I have a 11/23, DLV11J (4 lines), RL02/RLV11, TU58 (on one of the DLV11 ports), RX02/RXV21, and a TSV05 9-track tape. The TSV05 is TS11 compatible, and I'd especially like to have support for it. Bob's kernel supports MASSBUS tapes, but not a TS11. >I'm sure someone can build a kernel for you. I wonder if it's legal to >ship a kernel which has device drivers not in Bob Supnik's disk image?! SCO's license seems to cover all PDP-11 binaries for 7th Edition Unix, and it doesn't seem to say anything about their origin. Of course, I'm not a lawyer either. Bob >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Feb 11 15:38:53 1997 Received: from csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.20.6]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with ESMTP id QAA13586; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:39:17 +1100 Received: (from wkt@localhost) by csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA08050; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:38:53 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:38:53 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199702110538.QAA08050(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au> To: moffen(a)ix.netcom.com Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: PDP-11 [Mike is taking over a sysadmin job for a UNIX PDP-11. He hasn't seen one before. Can someone help!] > Thanks for the response. I am told that it's running unix. I start the > job the end of this week. The person I am replacing will be fired the > day I start. So, I have never seen their computer room, and will not > have any passwords or other info. It is critical that I gain control of > the system and prevent that person from getting into the system. Any > suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. > > Thanks again, > > Mike Offenberg > moffen(a)ix.netcom.com Ok, I'd try to chat with the person before they leave! At least to get the root password. I am cc'ing this email to a group of PDP-11 Unix users who may be able to help you out. I'd guess it's a 6th or 7th Edition UNIX, or a 2BSD system. What you really need to know is: + how to get a root login on the system + how to change the root password + how to reboot the system properly If the person leaves root logged in on the console, at least you can type passwd and change the root password. If they haven't, then there is no easy way of getting a root login to change the password, except for rebooting the system. Rebooting depends on what PDP-11 you've got there. If you can find out, someone here should be able to explain how to boot into single-user mode, where you have a root prompt and can change the root password and then go to multi-user mode. I'll try to get the basic maintenance manuals for these old UNIX systems put into ASCII and email them to you. Cheers, Warren >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Apr 29 15:11:09 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11464 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:11:11 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA10537 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:11:10 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199704290511.PAA10537(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: PUPS Mailing list To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:11:09 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, this is just a mailout to the PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society mailing list, as I've just added half a dozen addresses & I thought it would be a good idea to check that all the old & new addresses are valid. If you want off, please email me back! Looks like Bob Supnik's emulators have sparked a bit of interest in these old systems. Welcome to the new users of PDP-11 Unix! Cheers, Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Jun 4 11:33:19 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18807 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:33:20 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00384 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:33:19 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199706040133.LAA00384(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: CSR/vector calculator for the archives (fwd) To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:33:19 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Forwarded message from Tom I Helbekkmo ----- To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) From: Tom I Helbekkmo <tih(a)nhh.no> Subject: CSR/vector calculator for the archives Hi, Warren! I've written a CSR and vector calculator, based on VMS documentation and comparison tested against VMS SYSGEN. For want of a better name, I'm simply calling the program 'sysgen' -- this shows its heritage, at least... :-) This should be useful to PDP (and VAX) users who don't have a VMS system handy, and would like to configure their systems according to DEC standard. Would you add it to the PUPS archives and send out an announcement to the mailing list, please? Thanks! -tih ----- End of forwarded message from Tom I Helbekkmo ----- I assume this runs on any box with a C compiler. I've stashed it in the archive in the Progams section. If you don't have a Unix license, let me know & I'll email it to you. Warren >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Jun 26 09:54:27 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28238 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:54:10 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA04546 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:54:27 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199706252354.JAA04546(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: No progress on PDP-11 Unix source licenses, ideas? To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:54:27 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear PDP-11 Unix people, I'm emailing you because I haven't done much in the last few months about encouraging SCO to sell source licenses for PDP-11 UNIX, and I think it's time we try a new tack. The person I've been negotiating with a SCO is Dion Johnson, dionj(a)sco.com. I pestered him a lot last year and so perhaps I've worn out my welcome with him. So I'd like to suggest another approach or two. Perhaps another person interested in PDP-11 UNIX source licenses can try talking with Dion or other people at SCO? Any volunteers? Steven Schultz? Bob Supnik? Alternatively, if nobody comes forward, we could all email Dion expressing our desires for sources licenses for these old UNIX versions. Looking at the survey I've been conducting at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/, at least 130 people are interested in source licenses, and the general consensus is: No resale of license is acceptable No source redistribution is acceptable 50/50 split on single-user-only licenses No commercial usage is acceptable Full source code is preferable Main UNIXes to be covered are 5th,6th,7th Edition and 2BSD. Cost of license no more than US$200, max. After reviewing the email from Dion, I'd add another condition which would make SCO happy: Source license adequately protects SCO's intellectual property, in their view. Anyway, please email your suggestions on what we should do to the PUPS mailing list (oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) or to me. I think the single person approach is better than flooding Dion with email. Maybe we can sign an email petition and deliver that to a number of people at SCO? Thanks in advance for your input! Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri Jun 27 11:24:14 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29897 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:23:50 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06719 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:24:14 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199706270124.LAA06719(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Petition to SCO for licenses To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:24:14 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear PDP-11 UNIX people, The small response to my suggestions about lobbying SCO for source licenses brought some volunteers for the cause, and a preference for a single petition to SCO rather than mail-bombing :-) If you didn't respond, please let me know what you think & if you're willing to help out. I've written a draft petition, which is attached below, and is also available (with some hyperlinks) at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/petition.html Is there anything in the draft you disagree with, or wish to change? Please let me know!! Warren The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. Dear Sirs/Madams, We, the undersigned, are a group of people who are interested in obtaining source code and binary copies of the versions of UNIX that ran on the PDP-11 range of computers from Digital Equipment Corporation. We would like to have copies of these versions of UNIX because: + they are of great historical importance, and/or + we personally own PDP-11 computers on which these systems will run. The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. owns the copyright to these very old versions of UNIX. We understand and appreciate that SCO wishes to protect their intellectual property within, and ownership of, these versions of UNIX. Therefore, we wish to petition SCO to make available source code and binary licenses of these versions of UNIX so that: + we can legally own source code and binaries for PDP-11 UNIXes, and + SCO's copyright and intellectual property is protected. We would be happy to purchase and be legally bound by a source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes that meets SCO's requirements, as long as: + the license covers the entire distributions (source code, binaries and documentation) of the following versions of UNIX: - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX - 32V UNIX - PWB/UNIX - those portions of all 2BSD releases which are derived from UNIX source code + we have the right to make changes to the source code of the above versions of UNIX + we have the right to distribute our changes to other people who have signed and agreed to the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes + we have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software + we have the right to allow other people to use the UNIX binaries on such an installation Note that the latter is already permitted, given SCO's binary license agreement for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX. We would also be happy with the following conditions imposed in the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes: + no resale of the license is permitted + source code covered by the license cannot be distributed or disclosed to people not covered by the license + no commercial usage of the source code or binaries is permitted + SCO is not required to include copies of any source code, binaries or documentation with the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes On a recent survey of people interested in such a license (see http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/) over 120 people responded. Most of the respondents would agree to a license with the conditions and limitations outlined above, if the cost of such a license was less than US$200. We urge you to consider + the historical significance of the UNIX operating system, + that the PDP-11 versions of UNIX are essentially obsolete, + that superior UNIX-like operating systems, libraries and applications are freely available in source code form, + that the source code to 6th Edition UNIX is publically available in printed form (Lion's Commentary on 6th Edition UNIX, Peer to Peer Communications, Inc.) and make personal-use non-disclosure source code and binaries licenses for PDP-11 UNIXes available at a price which we can afford as individuals. The UNIX community has played an extremely important role in the development and success of the UNIX operating system. The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc., as owners of the UNIX operating system source, would be repaying the UNIX community in some measure by providing source licenses for these old versions of UNIX. Although you would not profit greatly from the licenses, you would earn the respect and appreciation from many people who helped make UNIX what it is today. Thank you for your time. Your response to our petition will be appreciated, and can be sent via Internet e-mail to Warren Toomey wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au. Sincerely yours, The undersigned >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Jul 2 10:21:15 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09864 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:20:22 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA16859; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:21:15 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199707020021.KAA16859(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: PDP11 To: crr(a)gil.com.au Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:21:15 +1000 (EST) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <199707020013.KAA08108(a)iccu6.ipswich.gil.com.au> from "crr(a)gil.com.au" at "Jul 2, 97 10:13:49 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In atricle by crr(a)gil.com.au: > Hello Warren, > > Just a short note to introduce myself, Colin Riddel is my name, > I have just > saved from the scrap heap a PDP11 / 34 with 2 RK5 drives > and about 20 disks.. unfortunately the former owners of the system > wiped all contents from the disks. I would like to be able to > get a copy of UNIX for the PDP11, then fully restore the machime > I would apreciate any information that you can give me on > obtaining and setting up PDP unix on the beast > > I am a member of HUMBUG (home Unix machine Brisbane user group ) > and one of the system administrators at Global Info-Links (an ISP in > Ipswich Qld) > Colin Riddel Hi Colin, I saw you sign the petition, thanks. The problem is how to load the software onto the box! There are RK05 disk images of UNIX (v6 and v7) at ftp://minnie.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11-sims/Supnik_2.2d/ But how do we get them into the box? Do you have any boot disks for any OS (RSX, RT-11)? What about tape drives? I'll pass this onto our mailing list, maybe some more knowledgeable readers will be able to answer you. Alternatively, posting this to vmsnet.pdp-11 should get you an answers. Ciao, Warren >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Jul 2 12:00:05 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10094 for <unixarc(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:59:08 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17575 for unixarc(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:00:05 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:00:05 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199707020200.MAA17575(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> To: unixarc(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Petition SCO for PDP-11 UNIX Source Licenses Hello, You may have received email from me last week asking for ideas about lobbying SCO to make source licenses for PDP-11 UNIXes available. The feedback from the email was in favour of creating a petition which we would present to SCO. I mailed a draft petition to many of you and again got a favourable response. Therefore, I've set up a WWW petition for PDP-11 UNIX source licenses at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/petition.html. PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION!!! if you agree with the petition. PLEASE GET OTHER PEOPLE TO SIGN TOO!!! We need as many signatures as we can get. Pass the word around to other interested people you know of. If you filled in the PDP-11 UNIX source code survey on the same WWW server, your name has been automatically put on the petition, unless you disagreed with the petition's contents. Please email me if you want your name removed. You can re-sign the petition to add your Full Name; I'll tidy it up later. I'd like to get well over 100 names on the petition before I pass it to SCO. If you have contacts at SCO who we could send the petition, please email me! If you'd like to be put on a mailing list to be kept informed of the petition's progress, also email me. Hopefully, we will get a result from SCO. Thanks again, Warren Toomey wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Jul 2 12:05:23 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10113 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:04:26 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17606 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:05:23 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199707020205.MAA17606(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: PDP UNIX Src License Petition To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:05:23 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies if you've already got word of this; I've lost track of who I have & haven't emailed. There is a petition to sign to convince SCO to make Unix source licenses available at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/petition.html 160 signatures so far, about 120 culled from the survey I was running and 40 in the past 48 hours. Please sign if you want SCO to make licenses available! Informal feedback from SCO is good; Dion Johnson there thinks it looks reasonable & he will be our advocate at SCO. Thanks, Warren >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Jul 16 09:38:59 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18522 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:38:55 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01410 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:39:00 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199707152339.JAA01410(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Another Old PDP-11 UNIX Tape To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:38:59 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I've just tracked down another old tape with PDP-11 Unix stuff on it. It's in the UK. Anybody there care to chat with George & extract the bits from the tape so we can put it in the archive? ----- Forwarded message from George Coulouris ----- To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> From: George Coulouris <George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Subject: Re: PDP-11 UNIX Warren, I've had a 9-track tape reel in my bottom drawer for about 15 years. I no longer remember what is on it! It may contain the source of 'em' and a few other utilities that I wrote in the '70s. Unfortunately I have no convenient way to read it. If you are interested, I could try to find someone with a 9-track reel drive, or if you have one I could just send the tape to you. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to have a go at reading the tape. George ----- End of forwarded message from George Coulouris ----- Also, the source code petition has now got 290 signatures. I haven't heard anything from SCO since I passed it to them formally, except that they had received it and it was being passed to `the right people'. I'll keep updating the status page, hyperlinked to the petition itself, as things happen. The petition's at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/petition.html. Quite a number of well-known people have signed. Both Andy Tan(n)enbaums, Steven Schultz, Richard Tobin, Bill Joy, Henry Spencer, Neil Groundwater, Dave Presotto, Andrew Hume, Peter Collinson, Greg Rose, Brian Redman, Peter Honeyman, Megan Gentry, Jim McKie, Margo Seltzer, John Mashey, Peter Salus, Ozalp Babaoglu, Keith Bostic, George Coulouris etc. Plus all the other individuals who have shown support. Cheers, Warren >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Jul 23 13:36:12 1997 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02515 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:36:07 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA01232 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:36:12 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199707230336.NAA01232(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: New PDP-11 UNIX Archive Additions To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:36:12 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, I've just received a couple of _huge_ tarballs from Keith Bostic with the following PDP-11 UNIX stuff: 1BSD 2.10BSD 2.79BSD 2.8BSD 2.9BSD 2BSD First 2BSD tape. 3BSD First 3BSD tape. pascal.2.0 Pascal distribution pascal.2.10 Pascal distribution 32V Documentors WorkBench. pdp.archive ??? pwb 3 slightly different & incomplete versions v6 6th Edition v6.compat ??? v7 7th Edition v7add The "40 changes" tape. v7m Follow-on release to V7 Due to space considerations (& a lack of time), I haven't been able to extract anything into the licensed UNIX archive that I run on henry. I'd also like to try and remove duplicates where possible. If you're interested in a particular thing from the tarballs, please email me and I'll extract the relevant sections. Also: 300+ signatures on the PDP-11 UNIX src license petition. I just sent a reminder email to SCO to see what they're doing with it. Cheers, Warren

28 years, 3 months

7th Edition on a real PDP-11/23+ (fwd)

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

> From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob(a)poco-adagio.santa-clara.ca.us> > Subject: 7th Edition on a real PDP-11/23+ > To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au > > Warren, > > I'm not sure if the PUPS members would be interested, but I have > successfully been able to run the 7th Edition RL02 image that accompanies > Bob Supniks emulator on a real PDP-11/23+.Jim Carpenter (jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net) > deserves a special thanks for helping me work out a few problems in bringing > it up. If any other members of the group are interested in doing the same I > would be happy to help. Bob, I'm cc'ing this reply to the mailing list so that the others will get a copy. > As I understand the terms of the SCO license, this should be perfectly > legal so long as it is for non-commerical purposes. There doesn't seem > to be anything in the license that limits me to using an emulator. > Please correct me if you disagree. As far as I can see, you can do anything with the disk image as long as it's non-commercial. So I'm sure that it's perfectly legal. > > Performance is suprisingly good, especially considering that the 11/23+ > was no speed demon even by old PDP standards. And it's amazing - the > whole Unix system fits on a 10Mb pack with about 3.5Mb free! > > The contents of this disk image seem to be pretty limited, and I'm > interested in knowing if any of the missing components (e.g. man pages!!) > are available anywhere. I'm also interested to know if there are any V7 > kernels available with more devices installed. I've got a lot of hardware > on my 11/23, especially a TSV05 but also a RX02 and TU58, that this system > can't use. > Bob Armstrong Bob, firstly if you can write down the details of how you got the image installed & running on the 23+, and email it to the mailing list (oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au) that'd be great, as I archive the mail. Secondly, I'm unsure of the copyright/legal status of the man pages. It would be good if they could be released publically. I might ask Bob Supnik if he has any ideas. Finally, many of the members of the PUPS mail list are covered by source code licenses, so if you can tell us what device you require, I'm sure someone can build a kernel for you. I wonder if it's legal to ship a kernel which has device drivers not in Bob Supnik's disk image?! Hope so! Cheers, Warren

28 years, 3 months

PDP-11 (fwd)

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

----- Forwarded message from Don Kabuss ----- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:22:36 -0600 From: kabussdr(a)SLUVCA.SLU.EDU (Don Kabuss) Subject: PDP-11 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Hello Warren, My name is Don. I visited your webpage today about the "PDP-11 UNIX Preservation Society". Although I'm not inclined to participate, I am however the proud owner of a DEC PDP-11/04. It is complete except for a dumb terminal/ keyboard. It is mounted in two 6 1/2 foot tall steel racks it includes a dual 8" floppy drives with unopened boxes of new 8" disks, one 12" cartridge removable hard drive with 6 cartridges, one 12" reel to reel mass storage tape drive, power supply, supportive hardware and all cabling. Also there is an 18" medium speed drum printer in a sound proof encloser. No it's not for sale. However, I would like to give it away. Obviously it is very heavy and there is no way I could ship it. I would like to know if there is a member of this Society somewhere in the mid-west ( close to St. Louis, Missouri,USA ) that might be interested in having it just for coming to get it? The unit was fully functional when I removed the dumb terminal to use in another application, so it's not just "junk". This unit is mine and not property of the University that I'm affiliated with. I hope this may serve a common interest. Thanks Don. ----- End of forwarded message from Don Kabuss -----

28 years, 4 months

Weird TS05 gotcha

by Tom I Helbekkmo

I just wanted to share an interesting experience that might save someone else some time if the occasion should arise... I've got a Q4 cabinet with two BA23s in the middle, an RA81 below them and a TS05 tape station on top. It's had a KA630 (a MicroVAX II, that is) CPU running VAX/VMS, Ultrix and 4.3BSD-Reno before, and the TS05 has always behaved perfectly. Just recently, I reconfigured this box with a MicroPDP-11/73 (a great little system: two RD54s, twin RX50s, TK50 and TS05, DELQA, DHQ11 and the RA81), and was dismayed to find that my trusty old 9 track tape station no longer worked! After several, unsuccessful attempts to get some (too) old diagnostic software to work, I put the KA630 back in, and ran MDM, the MicroVAX Diagnostic Monitor. The tape station checked out perfectly. Back in went the 11/73 -- sure enough, it didn't work. Experimenting showed that I could fsf, bsf rewind and stat the tape station with mt all I wanted, but I couldn't read nor write. The controller always gave an illegal address error, which the manual says is what happens when you use it in a 22 bit qbus while it's configured for 18 bit operation. Of course, that couldn't be for real, right? I mean, the KA630 is a 22 bit system, and it worked on that with several operating systems! Still, it doesn't hurt to check, so I pulled the controller. Yup, it was set to 18 bit mode. Flipped it to 22, turned on buffering at the same time -- and I now have a fast, dependable 1600bpi 9 track again! If anyone can explain how this thing worked in the first place, I'd appreciate it! (Oh, and if anyone has some hints for this youngster about the proper care and feeding of my TS05 as the years go by, that would come in very handy as well!) (Heck, while I'm asking all this, an RK05 with qbus controller and a few packs would be great, too, and would go real well with this old /23 I've got sitting here!) -tih -- Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier"

28 years, 4 months

Simulator 2.2d release with demonstration software (fwd)

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

[You must read this! Warren] ----- Forwarded message from Bob Supnik ----- From: Bob Supnik <bob.supnik(a)ljo.dec.com> Subject: Simulator 2.2d release with demonstration software Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:56:40 -0500 This notice is being posted today in relevant Usenet conferences. Thanks for your help in reaching a major milestone! Computer History Simulators V2.2d: Release Notes V2.2d is a major release of the simulators for the Computer History project. It includes simulators for: - Data General Nova - Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-8 - Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-11 - Digital Equipment Corporation 18b PDP's (PDP-4, PDP-7, PDP-9, PDP-15) - IBM 1401 These simulators are freeware. They are intended for personal or educational use and are provided on an as-is basis. Support is not available, and commercial use is prohibited. See the documentation for debug status for each simulator. This release also includes demonstration software for the PDP-8, PDP-11, and Nova: - RDOS V7.5 for the Nova - OS/8 for the PDP-8 - UNIX V5, V6, and V7 for the PDP-11 The demonstration software is provided for personal, non-commercial use, under license from its current owners (Data General for RDOS, Digital Equipment Corporation for OS/8, and the Santa Cruz Operation for UNIX). Please be sure to read the license agreements before using or distributing the demonstration software. A copy of the appropriate license agreement(s) must be included with any copy of the demonstration software. I gratefully acknowledge the generous help and support of Data General Corporation, Digital Equipment Corporation, and the Santa Cruz Organization in making the demonstration software and supporting license agreements available. The simulator sources and documentation are contained in a compressed tar archive on the public FTP server ftp.digital.com: /pub/DEC/sim/sources/sim_2.2d.tar.Z The simulators have been tested under Digital UNIX, VAX VMS, Alpha VMS, and Intel Linux. A port to Windows 95/Windows NT is underway. Porting to other little-endian UNIX systems is straightforward, but porting to big-endian systems is not: data representations are endian dependent. The demonstration software and licenses are contained in multiple compressed tar archives on the public FTP server ftp.digital.com: /pub/DEC/sim/software/rdosswre.tar.Z - RDOS /pub/DEC/sim/software/os8swre.tar.Z - OS/8 /pub/DEC/sim/software/uv5swre.tar.Z - UNIX V5 /pub/DEC/sim/software/uv6swre.tar.Z - UNIX V6 /pub/DEC/sim/software/uv7swre.tar.Z - UNIX V7 (Very) cursory instructions for using the demonstration software are included in the simulator documentation. The simulator project includes many contributions. For a more detailed description of the simulator itself, and the many people who helped with it, please see the (forthcoming) December 96 issue of the Digital Technical Journal, which has an article on "Restoring Old Computers" by Max Burnet and Bob Supnik. YOU can contribute to the computer history project! The simulator is an open-ended framework, and contributions are welcome, such as: - further debuging of the existing simulators - additional peripherals for existing simulators - new software images for existing simulators - new simulators - terminal emulation routines for Windows 95/Windows NT - ports to other operating environments Please send your contributions to bob.supnik(a)ljo.dec.com. ----- End of forwarded message from Bob Supnik ----- >From Bob Supnik <bob.supnik(a)ljo.dec.com> Tue Dec 3 10:56:40 1996 Received: from rachael.franken.de (rachael.franken.de [193.175.24.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with SMTP id FAA19177; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:12:21 +1100 Received: from <hub-n.franken.de> by rachael.franken.de with cbsmtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #8) id m0vVLcd-000oLsC; Wed, 4 Dec 96 19:00 MET Received: from mbsks.UUCP by hub-n.franken.de with UUCP (Smail3.1.28.1 #12) id m0vVL2G-000BzTC; Wed, 4 Dec 96 18:23 WET Received: by mbsks.franken.de (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0vVKxM-000NS0C; Wed, 4 Dec 96 18:18 MET Message-Id: <m0vVKxM-000NS0C(a)mbsks.franken.de> From: m(a)mbsks.franken.de (Matthias Bruestle) Subject: Unix onto my new PDP-11 To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (oldunix) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:17:59 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mahlzeit I have here a PDP-11 which was used in a X-ray-"defractometer". There was no Boot-disks or documentation. Hardware: 3HE-19"-case (with a label VAXstation 3200) with an on/off-switch and 6 buttons. 5,25"-FDD 3,5"-HDD (probably ST-506-type) Fujitsu Model M2227D2 Type B03B-4815-B104A#B On the side to the disk/floppy there are unused connectors: Fixed Disk 0 (2 con.) Fixed Disk 1 (2 con.) Removable Disk 1&2 (1 con.) It has 3 modules: quad-size from Mentec with 4 connectors (serial ports) quad-size from MDB with 4 unused connectors dual-size from Dilog (connected to disk and floppy) Software: It is installed RT-11FB V5.04D. The output from resorc/a is: ------------------------------------------------------------- RT-11FB (S) V05.04 D Booted from DU0:RT11FB USR is set SWAP EXIT is set SWAP KMON is set NOIND TT is set QUIET ERROR is set ERROR SL is set OFF EDIT is set EDIT KMON nesting depth is 3 PDP 11/73A Processor 512KB of memory Floating Point Microcode Extended Instruction Set (EIS) Memory Management Unit Cache Memory 50 Cycle System Clock Memory parity support FPU support Device Status CSR Vector(s) ------ ------ --- --------- SL Installed 000000 000 FW Not installed 177170 264 LD 131520 000000 000 DY Not installed 177170 264 VM 132472 177572 250 SP Installed 000000 110 XL Installed 176500 300 304 DL Not installed 174400 160 DU Resident 172150 154 LS Installed 176510 310 314 NL Installed 000000 000 TT (Resident) = LP DU (Resident) DU0 = SY MQ (Resident) LD (Loaded) LD0 = DK SL VM (Loaded) SP XL LS NL 5 free slots Job Name Console Level State Low High Impure --- ---- ------- ----- ----- --- ---- ------ 0 RESORC 0 0 Run 000000 131510 134576 No multi-terminal support Address Module Words ------- ------ ----- 160000 IOPAGE 4096. 155636 DU 561. 133220 RMON 4743. 132464 VM 174. 131512 LD 245. 001000 ..BG.. 22693. LD0 is DU0:USER.DSK[50068.] = DK LD4 is DU0:USER.DSK[50068.] LD7 is DU0:PW.DSK[3000.] ------------------------------------------------------------- I got somehow a M70>-Prompt (after a @-Prompt) and booted it with DU<Return>. Can I make somehow a bootable floppy-backup? Is it supported by V7 or another UNIX? How big is the harddisk? What device/size is the floppy? DK? Is it possible to read/write these floppies with a PC? Is it possible to make UNIX-boot/install-floppies with an emulator and install with the UNIX on this PDP-11? What did I forget to ask? Thanks endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside >From "Robert Armstrong" <rarmstro(a)telesensory.com> Tue Dec 10 09:40:01 1996 Received: from dolphin (dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.5]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.6.13/8.3) with SMTP id JAA00108; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:01:12 +1100 Received: by dolphin (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA09361; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:59:56 +1100 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp7.netcom.com) by csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA20100; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:15:54 +1100 Received: from telesens.UUCP by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id QAA19916; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:06:06 -0800 Received: by telesensory.com (UUPC/extended 1.12r) for wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:40:01 -0800 Message-Id: <32aca351.telesens(a)telesensory.com> Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:40:01 -0800 From: "Robert Armstrong" <rarmstro(a)telesensory.com> To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: PUPS Membership Content-Type: text Sender: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Microsoft Mail v3.0 (MAPI 1.0 Transport) IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note From: Armstrong, Robert To: 'wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au' Subject: PUPS Membership Date: 1996-12-09 15:36 Priority: 3 Message ID: C28C0656D851D0119D8400A02450680C Conversation ID: PUPS Membership ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Warren, I have a Micro-PDP 11/73 running 2_11BSD now, and a running 11/23+ system that I'd like to find a Unix for (currently it's running RT). The 11/23 lacks I&D space and therefore is unable to run 2_11BSD, and also it's severely handicapped because its largest disk a RL02. I also have a several other DEC non-Unix systems including a 11/730, a PDP-8/A, and too many VAXstation-2000s and 3100s to count. All run perfectly except the -8, which is my current project. I have a some UNIBUS and QBUS spares, and even a few OMNIBUS parts, and I'm always willing to trade with other collectors. I'm afraid I know very little about Unix, but I do have some experience with DEC hardware and would be happy to try and help out in this area. Please do not reply to this account - my home email address is bob(a)poco-adagio.santa-clara.ca.us Thanks, Bob Armstrong

28 years, 5 months

Results of PDP UNIX Source Questionnaire

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

All, The results of my PDP-11 UNIX source license quiz so far are available on the PUPS web page, http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ If you haven't filled out the questionnnaire, please do so, as it gives me more ammunition to convince SCO to make licenses available. Get your friends, family & household pets to fill it out too :-) Most of the results were as I expected, although less people were happy with the single-user idea that I thought would be. Cheers, Warren

28 years, 6 months

PDP Unix Archive Down...

by wkt＠csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au

All, I accidentally shut down the PDP Unix ftp archive on henry.cs.adfa.oz.au yesterday, as it's my desktop PC and I temporarily forgot about its other uses. It should be back on again at 0000 GMT Monday. I've also got a new Pentium to replace the 486 which is henry, and I will cut over to the new machine sometime in the next two weeks, so if you are having any troubles ftp'ing stuff from this machine, please let me know. Cheers, Warren

28 years, 8 months

UNIX for my 11/34A

by m＠mbsks.franken.de

Mahlzeit OK. Now I have a RL01 image, which boots at least on the emu with the original rl1unix kernel. # mkfs /dev/rl1 9000 # dd if=/usr/mdec/rluboot of=/dev/rl1 count=1 # mount /dev/rl1 /mnt # df # rm -rf /usr/dicts /usr/src /usr/games /rkunix /usr/spool/uucppublic/ansi* # tar cf - .profile bin boot etc lib tmp usr | (cd mnt; tar xf -) # cp /rl1unix /mnt/unix # mkdir /mnt/mnt # mkdir /mnt/dev # cp /dev/makefile /mnt/dev # cd /mnt/dev # make # make rl # ln rl0 swap # cd /usr/sys/conf # cp rl1conf conf conf: remove last line (tm) m.h: uncomment "#define _1134" makefile: M = smch copied pk.p, stat.h and tty.h from other V7 source to /usr/sys/h # make unix # cp unix /mnt/nunix The selfmade kernel nunix doesn't boot. Did I something wrong? Should I adjust also other options in m.h or param.h to get better performance with 128kByte (not kWord) RAM? Thanks endergone Zwiebeltuete -- insanity inside

28 years, 8 months

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