TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

48 participants
6504 discussions

by asbesto

well, we discovered that we have MV/UX installed together with AOS/VS, so we have a weird UNIX running ... under AOS/VS :))) so, our goal is, for now, to preserve the actual system, and to make a copy of the tapes (now we can use "dd" to read/copy them) we're experimenting, stay tuned we wrote some documentation in http://zaverio.net/eclipse/stuff, and we will put online some help ASAP p.s. any help/hint appreciated :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

Jesus uses Eclipse MV/7800XP

by asbesto

Fun at Poetry Hacklab : http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/tn/dscn6703.jpg.html other at http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/ and some .MOV under "stuff" :) enjoy! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

we break into AOS/VS :)

by asbesto

http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/ we hacked in! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

the Data General ECLIPSE MV/7800XP ... booted from tape! :)

by asbesto

well, another great day! we booted via tape! :))) the problem was that the eclipse need to load the "MICROCODE" before read anything else; and we had 2 problems: 1) the tape head was so dirty that we can feel the dirt on the head touching with a finger! after cleaning it, the tape reader now perfectly! 2) the microcode original tape is ... in horrible conditions! it release magnetic particles touching it, and the tape reader can't read it :((( BUT we found that a microcode copy can be loaded from the hard disk (a 550 mb disk, very big and huge ! :) so, we can now load the microcode from hard disk and, after that, boot the DG/UX installation tape :D AND WE'RE SO HAPPY, SOOO HAPPY, WE LOVE ALL ! :) the main problem is how to do a backup of the whole disk, to preserve the original AOS/VS installation, before trying an installation of DG/UX. Any hint? :) p.s. some images here: http://dyne.org/~asbesto/eclipse/eflags many tnx to eflags for the help (he's the guy in the photos). It's a sort of JESUS. He touch hardware imposing hands, then the hardware magically works. :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

looking for old school hackers

by lm＠bitmover.com

Hi, Sorry if this is spam but in a flash of "well, duh!" insight I realized this is the right place. We're looking for systems people and we really like minimalists. What I tell people when I hire them is "If it's in the 1986 SVID or if it is sockets or mmap, you can use it. Anything else is off limits". And our code works everywhere, we can bring up a new platform in about an hour and our source base is not trivial. We're all C and bourne shell (ok, yeah, some tcl/tk for guis). We're hacking bwk's awk source base (he sent me ~bwk/awk with all the source, tests, the source to the book in english and french, gotta love that) so we can use it to be the front end to our simple database (if you think about it an SQL select statement looks one heck of a lot like an awk program). It's pretty cool, we're making a scripting language for systems people that is small. Kind of what perl would have been if it had been part of V7. Oh, and the language is going to be open source if that's important to you. We are looking for a few solid programmers. We pay well, we're profitable, no debt, no outside investors, stable revenue stream, and we're growing. Our growth is limited by our ability to hire which in turn is limited by my taste. Which is very much in line with this community, small is good, simple is good, complex sucks. We live and die by Brian's comment that debugging is harder than coding so if you were clever when you were coding you are by definition not smart enough to debug the code. What we have to offer is a stable place to work, no crap from idiot managers or money grubbing VC's. What we are working is cutting edge, ping me for information, it's more than what is publicly known. We're in the Bay Area and we want you to be too. If it's a fit we'll pay to relocate you. Please let me know if you are interested. And if you aren't but you know someone who is a good fit we'll cough up a $10K referral fee provided that they last at least one year here. Thanks, -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years, 8 months

A patch for compiling vtserver under linux ...

by asbesto

Compiling vtserver gave me an error: asbesto@gemini ~/pdp11/vtserver $ cc vtserver.c -o vtserver /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0x76e): In function o_command': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xad6): In function ead_config': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xb63): In function ead_config': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xd10): In function etraw': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xdc1): In function etraw': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xe7e): more undefined references to rrno' follow collect2: ld returned 1 exit status asbesto@gemini ~/pdp11/vtserver $ This due to the way errno is now used; errno.h has to be included. Here's a patch to compile vtserver 2.3a-20010404 under linux: -------begin-patch-snip-here------ --- vtserver.c 2001-04-04 02:57:38.000000000 +0000 +++ vtserver-linux.c 2005-08-30 20:40:32.000000000 +0000 @@ -74,7 +74,23 @@ #include <unistd.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <string.h> -char *strerror(int errno); + +#ifdef linux +/* asbesto 30-8-2005 - asbesto(a)freaknet.org + linux need errno.h included. :) +*/ +#include <errno.h> + +/* asbesto 30-8-2005 - asbesto(a)freaknet.org + as errno.h was included, the following line need + to be commented: + char *strerror(int errno); +*/ +#else + + char *strerror(int errno); + +#endif /* Commands sent in both directions */ struct vtcmd { ---------------------end-patch-snap-here--------- maybe this can be included in ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver and maybe the version of vtserver has to be changed :) p.s. i'm not so good in C, i quit programming many years ago, i hope this can work ok :))))) hope all this can help. -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

Help about Data General ECLIPSE MV/7800XP

by asbesto

Hi, here we are back from pdp-11/34 restoration. We haven't installed unix, because we have to prepare a special disk image for V6 to be installed on the RL02 disk (only 10 megabytes :)... now we're working on the Data General we have at our lab in Palazzolo Acreide, a little town in Sicilia (http://poetry.freaknet.org) We had an hardware problem some time ago - the tape had some electrolytic condensers to be changed, the fuse blow out, ecc. ecc., but now we think the main electric part is OK, because the tape start, and try to load the tape ... but using CLI to boot the tape, we have this error: SCP-CLI> boot Boot from what device? [24]: 22 Fatal System Error: Data Channel Bus Timeout AC0 AC1 AC2 AC3 PC CARRY ATU 00000000044 00000200000 00000170360 37700000000 00000000000 0 OFF SCP-CLI> can someone help? We have original DG/UX tapes here, and we want to install them on our disk, that now contain a weird AOS/VS installation (and we have some backup of it in other tapes) sorry for spamming the mailing list - but this list is our only resort :) (and i apologize for my bad, "italian way" english language :))) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

Re: [TUHS] the pdp11/34 BOOTED!!! :)))

by chronaut＠juno.com

Wow, thanks for posting the pics, MAJORLY cool ! it's incredible, after 3 years, it BOOTED !!! the images, taken some minutes ago, are here: http://zaverio.net/pdp11 it's INCREDIBLE we removed the cpu boards, we looked all the chips in it ... eating pizza and sicilian food (you can see it in the photos), and we re-inserted them ... and, just for a desperate test, we tried CTRL-BOOT ... and, THE CPU was RUNNING! so we tested all the console cables ... that seem not working ... we found another cable, with a null-modem converter, so we connected an old IBM terminal ... and, it was incredible, we had the CONSOLE CURSOR!!! :))) NOW, the next step is to FIND what was faulty ... a false contact in the board connectors ??? any other hint? :) p.s. tonight we want to install UNIX. :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!

19 years, 8 months

the pdp11/34 BOOTED!!! :)))

by asbesto

it's incredible, after 3 years, it BOOTED !!! the images, taken some minutes ago, are here: http://zaverio.net/pdp11 it's INCREDIBLE we removed the cpu boards, we looked all the chips in it ... eating pizza and sicilian food (you can see it in the photos), and we re-inserted them ... and, just for a desperate test, we tried CTRL-BOOT ... and, THE CPU was RUNNING! so we tested all the console cables ... that seem not working ... we found another cable, with a null-modem converter, so we connected an old IBM terminal ... and, it was incredible, we had the CONSOLE CURSOR!!! :))) NOW, the next step is to FIND what was faulty ... a false contact in the board connectors ??? any other hint? :) p.s. tonight we want to install UNIX. :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

Weird result about a test on the pdp11/34 ...

by asbesto

Sorry for this, we are here for a 48 hour continued debugging session at Freaknet Medialab, trying to restore this pdp11/34 ... now we discovered this: running a program full of NOP, followed by HALT, it stop after 12 cycles !!! so, if the program start at 1000, and end at 1100 with the HLT istruction ... the CPU STOP showing 1012 !!! and, if we input the program starting from 1400, all NOP, with the HLT at 1500, it stop at 1412! and, sometimes, it stop on address 002002 !!! it seem not executing the HLT ... what can it be ? :( the 128K mos memory M7891 i tried to repair some time ago ? p.s. the program itself is as we wrote in :! if someone can answer in real time, it would be great - we are also on IRC, #pdp11 on ircnet, and ICQ 36294456. :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

can someone help about the pdp11/34 boot ? :(

by asbesto

Hi, is anyone here that can help us booting the pdp11/34 ? :( we're becoming mad :((( the boot loader hangs at 001012. can someone help understand why? we haven't any bus error, and we have no prompt at serial terminal pressing "ctrl-boot" this is the boot code, found in "E-10 Loading Software Bootstrap": location contents 001000 012701 001002 174400 001004 012761 001006 000013 001010 000004 001012 012711 001014 000004 001016 105711 001020 100376 001022 005061 001024 000002 001026 005061 001030 000004 001032 012761 001034 177400 001036 000006 001040 012711 001042 000014 001044 105711 001046 100376 001050 005007 starting it, the display show "1012", i think this mean that he stop at address 001012. why? please someone help, we're here trying to boot it. also, some test code and how-to test is appreciated :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell Laboratories.

by James Falknor

To all concerned, I discovered this little gem up for auction on E-Bay. One of the stickers state that it is Seventh Edition from Bell Labs I have placed a small bid on it ($5.00 US). Advice required: 1. Would it be worth continuing to bid on? 2. What should my highest bid be? 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't have a tape machine or computer for such tape. Thank you, James Falknor

19 years, 8 months

Debugging a PDP11/34

by asbesto

Hi, can someone give any hint about debugging a PDP11/34 ? If you remember, we had strange hardware problems and the pdp11/34 can't boot anymore. In these days we will do some testing, so ... we need help! :) tnx all p.s. for info about the problem here: http://groups.google.co.jp/group/alt.sys.pdp11/browse_thread/thread/7b11ffe… -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 8 months

Any Thuth or Zed stuff out there

by Brantley Coile

Are there any people who worked with Thuth or the language Zed out there? Any hope of getting the source for the Zed compiler or a compiler for the Eh language? Brantley

19 years, 9 months

PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer

by James Falknor

To all interested, This is not meant as a advertising. The following is meant for informational purposes only. An entire PDP-11/23 system plus minicomputer is currently up for auction on E-Bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Equipment-Corp-PDP-11-23-plus-minicomputer_W0QQ… There is a person that has requested that the disk drive and disks be dumped if that person should win. There are 2 disks marked "system" on them. As a part of The Unix Heritage Society, I believe we need to keep this system intact. I personally do not have the money to successfully bid and win. I hope somebody from The Unix Heritage Society will take up the cause and make a successful winning bid. The system in it's entirety is a part of The Unix Heritage.

19 years, 9 months

IBM Xenix 1.00

by James Falknor

To all concerned, I recently came into possesion of IBM's Xenix 1.00 on 5.25 floppy disks for free. Problem is that it is missing disk 3 of 3 or the 4th disk in the set. I have the Installation disk, Disk 1 of 3, and Disk 2 of 3. Does anybody, by any chance, have the 4th disk, Disk 3 of 3 that they would be willing to share? Or, is that not allowed to be asked here? Thank you, James

19 years, 10 months

Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by James Falknor

To all you programmers, I'm sure you're scoffing at me, but I just obtained Borland's C++ BuilderX, Person Edition. It only cost $10.00 U.S. dollars direct from Borland. I plan to teach myself how to view, modify, replace, and write/re-write Unix Operating System code. May I rely on help from TUHS expert programmers? I know I'm going to need the help. My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. Since 4.3BSD contributed code into Unix Version8, I feel I will probably use portions of the latest BSD sources that are legally available. Again, if I may use those of you that programmers help, I would surely appreciate it alot. Thank you, James Falknor

19 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by Andrzej Popielewicz

Użytkownik José R. Valverde napisał: >Looks like overkill to me. It made lots of sense way back then, but as you >are speaking of an X86 port and you can assume an ANSI terminal to be the >default and available, you may as well (at least as a start) do without >termcap and terminfo (BTW I'd bet you don't need support for almost none >of those ancient terminals). > I do not need curses or termcap or terminfo to work under simulated pdp environment via apout in Coherent. As I said I can build everything(using V7 make,cc ans as), it means I can work, and I do not need ANSI terminal (if You have meant true VT100 terminal, and not TERM=vt100 on PC, BTW apout for version 7 assumes as default TERM=vt100 ). I was meaning building in pdp environment running in Coherent, and not building in Coherent via for example a crosscompiler or so. One needs termcap or terminfo if one wants to port more sophisticated tools like vi etc. > >What you can get is then a simpler screen-oriented text editor which can >easily be ported and then used as a bootstrap to port more advanced tools. > >Namely, S from 'A Software Tools Sampler' by Webb Miller. I ported and used >it on both V6 and V7, and still use it on V7 on SIMH. Neat, small, easy to >port, usage alike vi, but much simpler... And comes with some other >interesting tools (actually my first involvement with that code was to have a >unix-like toolkit on eraly VMS long, long ago). > >The code is available on the Net, but I'm including it here as an attachment >as it is not that big (52K). > > j > > Great, I will try it out. I have already tested succesfully more_v7 , which I obtained from Tim. Thanks. I will let You know how it works. Andrzej

19 years, 10 months

[Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition]

by Andrzej Popielewicz

19 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by James Falknor

Thanks to all, This project is, indeed, for my own educational purposes. I have always been "all idea, no action" type of person. It's time for me to act on my ideas. I have started by comparing the differences between Unix V7, 32V, Coherent, and NetBSD code base. I wish to preserve as much of Unix V7 as possible. Unix V7 was not without code contributed by others, namely Universities around the world. I don't know the legal logistics, but I don't see any reason to change the name from Unix V7 to anything else. As I begin to make run time progress on this project, I will keep everybody notified. I will also be posting questions as they arise. Thank you, James Falknor (I know I'm not alone with a World of Programmers on this mailing list)

19 years, 10 months

[Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition]

by Andrzej Popielewicz

19 years, 10 months

[Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition]

by Andrzej Popielewicz

19 years, 10 months

[Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition]

by Andrzej Popielewicz

19 years, 10 months

Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by Brantley Coile

> I do not know Plan9, but according to descriptions I have read, it looks > very interesting. Well it was developed by Bell Lab...(?)-AT/T, which > does not require recommendation.They offer also another interesting OS, > namely Inferno. This is my last email on this subject. Promise. I suggest using the Plan 9 compilers and start with the code for the 32V system. That's the code that first ran on the VAX. It'll be easier to move than the PDP version. It's just Seventh Edition moved to the VAX. I'm using Plan 9 to type this. It's the os I have used as my primary os for the last 10 years. I wrote the Cisco PIX Firewall and the LocalDirector using it. I first used Plan 9 15 years ago at Bell Labs. In a very real sense, it is the true decendent of a very noble line of timesharing systems, going all the way back to MIT's CTSS. You should try Plan 9 for free by downloading it from Bell Labs. It's all open source. Expect to learn a lot. It's UNIX like a Ford Mustang is a T-Model. Lot of the ideas of V7-10 are further developed in Plan 9. It's certainly the os perfered by a good number of UNIX purests. It was the result of a number of poeple, including Ken Thompson, who thought that a fresh code start would allow them to better exploit new technology like networking, hetergenious processors, and symmetrical multiple processors. http://plan9.bell-labs.com I really hope James does the port. I wish I had the time to do it myself. A native V7 port would be really useful in some situations, but more importantly it would help educate new generations of programmers. It would demonstrate the true power and synergy of the software tools approach that UNIX blessed us with. It doesn't need shared libraries, threads, gui's or even vi. The Seventh Edition is amazing technology in a form that can be understood, internalized, and the resulting education used to produce much better modern software. There should be at least a version in it's native form. There's just something special about running it native. Brantley Coile

19 years, 10 months

(no subject)

by Brantley Coile

>>> "vi". Editing with "cat" is possible but not very useful. I am not going >>> to learn "ed". >> >> Why? > > Simply because. Because I do not like ed. > I want to have useful and user friendly system. To use ed, only because > it is the oldest editor, does not make any sense for me. > I appreciate ed, because of sed, because sed has some similarity to ed > and is extremely useful as a tool. > Unix is not about ed, Unix is about unlimited possibilities of adding > new software , new applications or new editors, it makes Unix beautiful > that it can develop and not editor ed.If ed were all Unix has, it would > not survive. > I hope You accept that someone else can have different favourite > editors. I prefer vi, or even more vim, which is perfect editor.Of > course in the case of emulator missing user friendly editor is not a > problem, because I can edit under Coherent and then build under > emulator.It is good to have a choice, and Unix offers it. In 1983 I was using vi. I allowed a friend to use our system to typeset his companies UNIX manuals, and quickly found that I was having to share the machine with a dozen troff jobs. Vi, being a program that ran in raw mode, didn't respond very well on that 68010 10Mhz system. I was forced to switch to ed. Suddenly I discovered that I had hidden real UNIX behind all those vi commands. I now had plenty of mental capacity to use the rest of the tools available. To really say you understand the spirit of the software tools approach, you must spend a couple of months just using ed. Today I use acme mostly, but still find myself using ed for some edits. I would really encourage you to give it a try. Spend two months just using ed. You cerntainly should use the editor you feel most confortable with, but the growing experience will be well worth your while. Brantley

19 years, 10 months

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TUHS